Wlad Klitschko is a disgrace....and so is that Ref.

I thought to myself Saturday night 'Shall I wake up at 5am and watch it?' Thankfully I stayed reasonable and judging by all accounts it was a sensible decision. You know how Wlad fights and you all should know better by now. I heard it compared to Mayweather, but not at all. Mayweather is not exciting, but he has movement and athleticism, backed up with an amazing defence. Wlad doesn't have any of what Mayweather does, it is like Ruiz only far worse and all because he is too scared to fight. Learn your lessons, ignore his fights.

what amazes me is that im reading other threads and people are actually still defending wlad and his tactics

how can any boxing or non boxing fan have watched that on saturday night and say that it was a fair fight or that the fight was within the rules?

holding is against the rules and that was his major weapon in the fight, he did more damage with the clinches than he did with punches

Ok eric let me ask you this how often do people in boxing get a point deducted for holding i have not seen many of them and i never seen a dq for it. It was a shit fight i wish he got a point taken he might of tried and then just knocked him out but that is just in another world my friend.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Ok eric let me ask you this how often do people in boxing get a point deducted for holding i have not seen many of them and i never seen a dq for it. It was a shit fight i wish he got a point taken he might of tried and then just knocked him out but that is just in another world my friend.

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i agree, it doesnt happen enough, but its one thing holding on when you are hurt or every now and again to take a breath but basing your strategy on it is the other world

especially when you are the heavyweight champion

Dude Ali is considered the greatest fighter of all time and he not as bad as Wald but that guy would hold a guys head to his dick. I mean its in the rules but might as well take it out because no one really seems to care i mean the refs anyway shit happens so much over history of the sport dude.

Also eric were do you rank Wald just wondering i know don't like his fighting and bait El with it a lot. But i am curse as were do you actually rank Wald and how would he do in any other era. I aks this because pretty sure your opinion wont be to biased actually like to know.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Also eric were do you rank Wald just wondering i know don't like his fighting and bait El with it a lot. But i am curse as were do you actually rank Wald and how would he do in any other era. I aks this because pretty sure your opinion wont be to biased actually like to know.

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i wasnt around when ali was around and i havent watched his fights start to finish so i cant really comment on the amount of holding/cheating he did

i also think that ali is considered the greatest because of what he represented as much as his skills in the ring

the first champ that i really watched was tyson and all those since, yes there has always been holding and rule bending in boxing

but i have never seen anything to the extreme of saturday night (and wlads previous fights) and the holding and clinching was extremely extreme

how do you want me to rate wlad? on his achievements? yes he is right up there

i honestly believe fighting within the rules he wouldnt still be champion

Fair enough i respect that but all greats bend the rules so i am not so sure i can agree with you on that. I mean my favorite fighter is Holyfeild and his best weapon was his head at times but fair enough like the answer. As for the holding i don't think he has ever done it like he did last night watch the guy for a while he most of the time jabs his way to victory and ties up when bummed rushed but i think that is more of size thing. I mean got a fighter you are much bigger then you running in it kinda makes for awkward scene.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Fair enough i respect that but all greats bend the rules so i am not so sure i can agree with you on that. I mean my favorite fighter is Holyfeild and his best weapon was his head at times but fair enough like the answer. As for the holding i don't think he has ever done it like he did last night watch the guy for a while he most of the time jabs his way to victory and ties up when bummed rushed but i think that is more of size thing. I mean got a fighter you are much bigger then you running in it kinda makes for awkward scene.

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mate his size is a big asset and he could be a great fighter

if you take away or even half the holding he wouldnt have had things even nearly as comfortable as he has in his previous fights

also the HW division would have been much more entertaining over the last 6 or whatever years

Hahaha Tyson calling them both big stiff idiots, so funny!

Been a lot of guys that are big like Wlad over the years but they never amounted to much i say he is pretty skilled also don't think this division is as poor as people think. With out the Brothers i think fights be more competitive and people would think division was better. Also take away Ali speed or Foreman's power and they would not be shit either size is the same way dude its a gift like speed and power is. Well see what happens when he is gone i mean the guy is like 37 now not sure how long he will go for.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Been a lot of guys that are big like Wlad over the years but they never amounted to much i say he is pretty skilled also don't think this division is as poor as people think. With out the Brothers i think fights be more competitive and people would think division was better. Also take away Ali speed or Foreman's power and they would not be shit either size is the same way dude its a gift like speed and power is. Well see what happens when he is gone i mean the guy is like 37 now not sure how long he will go for.

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i have no quarms with vitalis fighting style

and i agree, without them the division would look better

But wlad is still champ and still dominates because of his clinching, so if wlad fought within the rules theres a lot more chance of him being in competative fights and we would have a better HW division

i kind of agree with chisora, build some sort of HW tournament away from germany, get these fighters earning the type of money that would draw the wlad away from him comforts and his ref, i think within a couple of fights he would be beaten

i know its a pipe dream and would never happen

If his size wasn't a major advantage why did he spend half the fight hanging off Povetkins back? His size means he can get away with constant fouls. A size advantage is not comparable with speed or power. Especially when you consider all divisions.

Yea but this is not any other division fenster it is hw division size is like speed or power. Last night was bad but most of the time Wald does not hold as much and just jabs his way to victory. I mean hw are different because there is no limit and pretty much not many old timers would have pray in this shit division. Meaning most fighters from the 60's back would have a problem today because of the size. Also eric Wlad completely out boxed Haye with not much clinching and he is pretty much best opponent for Wald. Who are these people that are going to beat him i am just wondering keep saying he would lose i don't think so at all see no proof of it. I mean he clinches at times in his fights but most of them just kinda backs off and jabs away and knocks them out, it seems now he really just does not care and above the rest to much for someone to come in and change it up and really make a fight out of it.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Yea but this is not any other division fenster it is hw division size is like speed or power. Last night was bad but most of the time Wald does not hold as much and just jabs his way to victory. I mean hw are different because there is no limit and pretty much not many old timers would have pray in this shit division. Meaning most fighters from the 60's back would have a problem today because of the size. Also eric Wlad completely out boxed Haye with not much cliching and he is pretty much best test for Wald. Who are these people that are going to beat me i am just wondering keep saying he would lose i don't think so at all see no proof of it. I mean he clinches at times in his fights but most of them just kinda backs off and jabs away and knocks them out, it seems now he really just does not care and above the rest to much for someone to come in and change it up and really make a fight out of it.

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it doesn't matter if he jabs more than he holds, holding isn't in the rules

watch wlads last 10 fights, see if you can find 1 fight where he holds less than 5 times in any one round

that means in his last 10 fights he was jabbing a lot perhaps but he also should have been DQd by round 2 in every one of them

mate, you seem quite reasonable but you are obviously happy with what happened on saturday night, but the one fact in all this is wlads whole strategy is based on holding which is against the rules

take the holding out of his game and its very possible, in fact very probably, he wouldn't be the HW champ anymore

his reign is a farce

No one has ever been dqed from my knowledge for holding though eric hardly even points are taken. I mean it even says may result in getting a point taken away in rules if you read them. Holding is a part of boxing dude its been in ever fight i have seen last night was bad night but come on last 10 aren't bad.

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Originally Posted by erics44

i have no quarms with vitalis fighting style

and i agree, without them the division would look better

But wlad is still champ and still dominates because of his clinching, so if wlad fought within the rules theres a lot more chance of him being in competative fights and we would have a better HW division

i kind of agree with chisora, build some sort of HW tournament away from germany, get these fighters earning the type of money that would draw the wlad away from him comforts and his ref, i think within a couple of fights he would be beaten

i know its a pipe dream and would never happen

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What the frosty fuck is a "quarm"?

All fighters hold. Vary few turn into a complete drunken drape ape by choice. It's even worse when you know he could legitimately hurt him badly and land clean KDs as early as the 3rd.

I find it pretty damn funny how a lot of the muthafukkas complaining about Wlad's holding are the same muthafukkas who use to suck Ricky Hatton's dick and never complained about his holding

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I find it pretty damn funny how a lot of the muthafukkas complaining about Wlad's holding are the same muthafukkas who use to suck Ricky Hatton's dick and never complained about his holding

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I find it pretty funny that you think putting a handful of cotton wool into your mouth makes you the Godfather, but we all know that your much more like a hamster stuck on the same little plastic wheel than Marlon Brando. If Ricky Hatton has so much in common with Wlad then why are you not bitching about Wlad like you do Hatton ? You are comparing apples and oranges, suck on that Padrino.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

I'm a fan of the Klitschko's, but that was a complete shit show, even moreso than normal.

Unfortunately for Wlad, he seems to stink out the joint in his biggest fights. There was huge press and hype on the Sultan Ibragimov showdown at the Garden and they bored everyone to tears. Same with the big David Haye megafight and now this. He looked stiffed and even bored in a lot of parts, and looked amateurish as he was looking for the big one-punch left hook KO. The right hand seemed to be off point as well.

But to be fair to Wlad, and I said this in another thread, people are going to say he's shit because of the grabbing, but they forget that Ali "jab and grabbed" his way to more than a few victories, they weren't all Thrillas in Manillas or Rumbles in the Jungles.

They need to get a ref in there who will take charge and remove the excessive holding from these fights.

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This is a solid post.

Here's the bottom line. Klitschko is not an exciting heavyweight--even Lyle won't make that claim. There is just no two ways about it.

However, Wlad is effective at what he does. That's just it. He's athletic, smart and well-prepared for every fight.

An interesting topic for another thread is how weak is this heavyweight division compared with those of yesteryear? I know it doesn't compare to the best periods for the division, but I doubt without researching that it is the worst too.

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I find it pretty damn funny how a lot of the muthafukkas complaining about Wlad's holding are the same muthafukkas who use to suck Ricky Hatton's dick and never complained about his holding

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I find it pretty funny that you think putting a handful of cotton wool into your mouth makes you the Godfather, but we all know that your much more like a hamster stuck on the same little plastic wheel than Marlon Brando. If Ricky Hatton has so much in common with Wlad then why are you not bitching about Wlad like you do Hatton ? You are comparing apples and oranges, suck on that Padrino.

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Wlad doesn't get knocked the fuck out in bars by bouncers. They have very little in common. Just pointing out the hypocrisy is some of these muthafukkin posters.

I honestly don't mind a guy clinching as long as he's trying to break your ribs or face with the free hand.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

I'm a fan of the Klitschko's, but that was a complete shit show, even moreso than normal.

Unfortunately for Wlad, he seems to stink out the joint in his biggest fights. There was huge press and hype on the Sultan Ibragimov showdown at the Garden and they bored everyone to tears. Same with the big David Haye megafight and now this. He looked stiffed and even bored in a lot of parts, and looked amateurish as he was looking for the big one-punch left hook KO. The right hand seemed to be off point as well.

But to be fair to Wlad, and I said this in another thread, people are going to say he's shit because of the grabbing, but they forget that Ali "jab and grabbed" his way to more than a few victories, they weren't all Thrillas in Manillas or Rumbles in the Jungles.

They need to get a ref in there who will take charge and remove the excessive holding from these fights.

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This is a solid post.

Here's the bottom line. Klitschko is not an exciting heavyweight--even Lyle won't make that claim. There is just no two ways about it.

However, Wlad is effective at what he does. That's just it. He's athletic, smart and well-prepared for every fight.

An interesting topic for another thread is how weak is this heavyweight division compared with those of yesteryear? I know it doesn't compare to the best periods for the division, but I doubt without researching that it is the worst too.

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Wladimir fights to WIN, if he can end a fight impressively he'll do it, but he's not going to put all his eggs in the "I'm gonna knock you out" basket. What would be interesting is if there was a fight where Wlad NEEDED a KO late to be assured of victory, but that's unlikely to happen because he can win rounds making it look ugly.


And to stir up the pot a little Bernard Hopkins is still screwing up fighters at 48....Wladimir is 37...we COULD have 11 more years of this ;D (hypothetically speaking of course)

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Originally Posted by erics44

it doesn't matter if he jabs more than he holds, holding isn't in the rules

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Yeah but lets be real here, clinching is a HUGE part of boxing. In fact, there have been countless fighters throughout history who have been BASHED because they didn't know how to properly clinch and tie up an opponent when they needed to (Tommy Hearns springs to mind).

I'm not trying to defend Wlad's excessive holding, because it was just that: excessive. But he didn't do anything I haven't seen other world class vets like Floyd, BHop, Ali, ect doing before.

Also, I don't know why people are letting Povetkin skate on this. He was initiating plenty of holding in the mid and later rounds as he got tired.

I see none of the people yammering on about how important RULES are giving Anthony Joshua any grief over his holding and hitting


So what's the deal fellas, do you not care because he's British??? ;D

It might not have been the best performance by Wlad but all the greats have had there fair share of stinkers as well. Tyson would hold alot especially in his later career as would Lewis who did the same tactics against Tua as well. Wlad is entitled to have stinkers now and again but with a record of 61-3- 53 kos and an iffy chin all the complainers will tune in to watch him again mark my words.

We just need to realise that you cant just change anyones style.

The style wlad has is obviously working for him as getting into a fight is his greatest weakness.

Some styles are exciting, some styles are agressive and some styles involve alot of showboating.etc

Wlads style is none of these because of the mental bruising of the KO he suffered and would rather play it safe till the rnd if his career.

I cant sit through all of his fights as I cant stay awake but he is doing one thing right and thats winning.

I'm supporting Erics on this one.

I try to be objective. There are fighters who sometimes do their fair share of holding or even "running" but it is usually done to make up for something they lack. Mayweather isn't a powerful puncher for example, and his opponents usually out weigh him. Andre Ward also doesn't have the power. Hopkins is old. But Wlad? Wlad is big, strong, has good reach, good speed, and good power, and is still young enough. His advantages FAR outweighed those of his opponent Povetkin. Wlad didn't need to hold because he had so many other physical advantages he could have used and it is frustrating to see him rely on clinching when he could have strategically taken a step or two back and pumped the jab more. Wlad didn't have all that much to fear from Povetkin's punch power as Povetkin is not a hard puncher. It was simply unnecessary and ruined a fight that Wlad could have won in exciting fasion. I mean, how many advatages does a guy need before he feels free to mix it up? Come on Wlad! Such a performance is beneath you and most of us realize this.

Goodness, I hope Wlad doesn't resort to this exessive clinching again or I'm going to lose hope.

If you want to call it boring call it boring fair enough, but enough of the "Well those were fouls" because if they're fouls now where were they during Lennox Lewis' reign?

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

I'm supporting Erics on this one.

I try to be objective. There are fighters who sometimes do their fair share of holding or even "running" but it is usually done to make up for something they lack. Mayweather isn't a powerful puncher for example, and his opponents usually out weigh him. Andre Ward also doesn't have the power. Hopkins is old. But Wlad? Wlad is big, strong, has good reach, good speed, and good power, and is still young enough. His advantages FAR outweighed those of his opponent Povetkin. Wlad didn't need to hold because he had so many other physical advantages he could have used and it is frustrating to see him rely on clinching when he could have strategically taken a step or two back and pumped the jab more. Wlad didn't have all that much to fear from Povetkin's punch power as Povetkin is not a hard puncher. It was simply unnecessary and ruined a fight that Wlad could have won in exciting fasion. I mean, how many advatages does a guy need before he feels free to mix it up? Come on Wlad! Such a performance is beneath you and most of us realize this.

Goodness, I hope Wlad doesn't resort to this exessive clinching again or I'm going to lose hope.

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God to agree with this but wlad just wants the w and who can blame him, if the ref had done his job and dogged a point or two by round five I don't think povetkin sees the 8th because wlad would know he's close to a dq and fight the way he actually can, but he's gona do what he's gona do if nobody does anything about it, wlads job is to win the refs job is to enforce the rules and he utterly failed.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

No one has ever been dqed from my knowledge for holding though eric hardly even points are taken. I mean it even says may result in getting a point taken away in rules if you read them. Holding is a part of boxing dude its been in ever fight i have seen last night was bad night but come on last 10 aren't bad.

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Mills Lane DQ'd Akinwande against Lewis for constant holding. It was shocking. Nearly as bad as Wlad's

I haven't read through the thread so apologies in advance...

Firstly, I'm one of the rare few that generally speaking enjoys Wlad's fights. I actually enjoy his methodical domination and appreciate how his seemingly simple style nullifies every challenger.
That said, this fight was garbage. BUT, I don't put 1% of the blame for that on Wlad. If he can get away with it, and it makes it easier for him, he's going to do it. Who wouldn't?? Boxing first and foremost is about winning. There is no fighter in history that would purposely make a fight harder for himself when the ref is letting him make it easy. As a champion you should adapt to a few things, namely; the opponents strengths/weaknesses, the rules/customs/circumstances of the location of the fight and the nature and performance of the referee. You can't blame Wlad for doing that.

By the way-props to Povetkin for his heart and his will to win. If everyone took his attitude into the ring against Wlad we'd have a few interesting fights.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Mr140

No one has ever been dqed from my knowledge for holding though eric hardly even points are taken. I mean it even says may result in getting a point taken away in rules if you read them. Holding is a part of boxing dude its been in ever fight i have seen last night was bad night but come on last 10 aren't bad.

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Mills Lane DQ'd Akinwande against Lewis for constant holding. It was shocking. Nearly as bad as Wlad's

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Tongue in cheek I know but noone had ever held as much as Akinwande.

Not great from wladimir but he would have been a mug to just let povetking dive in like he was doing and wrap himself around klitschko and hit his body.. He needs to stop pushing/throwing people over... that out of order :S amazingly strong fellow though to throw people with such ease

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Mr140

No one has ever been dqed from my knowledge for holding though eric hardly even points are taken. I mean it even says may result in getting a point taken away in rules if you read them. Holding is a part of boxing dude its been in ever fight i have seen last night was bad night but come on last 10 aren't bad.

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Mills Lane DQ'd Akinwande against Lewis for constant holding. It was shocking. Nearly as bad as Wlad's

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I don't agree, it wasn't even close

Richie davies DQd matthew barney for holding, that wasn't even close either

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Originally Posted by imp

We just need to realise that you cant just change anyones style.

The style wlad has is obviously working for him as getting into a fight is his greatest weakness.

Some styles are exciting, some styles are agressive and some styles involve alot of showboating.etc

Wlads style is none of these because of the mental bruising of the KO he suffered and would rather play it safe till the rnd if his career.

I cant sit through all of his fights as I cant stay awake but he is doing one thing right and thats winning.

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some styles are within the rules and some styles aren't, and some styles are against the rules to the extreme and don't resemble boxing at all

that last one is like wlads style only wlads style is worse

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

If you want to call it boring call it boring fair enough, but enough of the "Well those were fouls" because if they're fouls now where were they during Lennox Lewis' reign?

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Two wrongs don't make a right. Holding is a foul under the rules. Pabon dropped the ball last Saturday for allowing Wlad to do it all night. He should have stopped it earlier.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

If you want to call it boring call it boring fair enough, but enough of the "Well those were fouls" because if they're fouls now where were they during Lennox Lewis' reign?

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Lennox Lewis got his fair share of shit for hitting and holding when he did it. If it feels magnified in Wlads case thats because he does it a whole lot more.

I dont remember Lennox Lewis ever grabbing off a jab, or sometimes dispensing with the jab and just stumbling forward to grab a guy for no particular reason whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

If you want to call it boring call it boring fair enough, but enough of the "Well those were fouls" because if they're fouls now where were they during Lennox Lewis' reign?

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Two wrongs don't make a right. Holding is a foul under the rules. Pabon dropped the ball last Saturday for allowing Wlad to do it all night. He should have stopped it earlier.

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They are fouls only if the ref calls them. Example, holding is a penalty that 100% of offensive linemen do 100% of the downs in football be it pro, college, high school, pee wee whatever....but the flag isn't thrown every single time. It all depends on what the refs are calling that given game.