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Exactly! Judging soley on records is totally misleading - and can be easily countered. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
NO Mick.. anyone that claims Navarro was "coming off a loss" is stating a FACT. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Kawashima was irrelevant to this little debate ;)
Pacquaio
Calzaghe
Israel Vazquez
Pavlik
Cotto
Juan Manuel Marquez
Antonio Margarito
Wlladamir Klitschko
Ivan Calderon
Arthur Abraham
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterSorry.. I'll do this the lazy way.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepJust because you haven't heard of someone doesn't mean they aren't world class. bottom line is Mijares is fighting the best competition available to him and winning convincingly the next step has to be Montiel, maybe Gorres otherwise he is clearly dominant in that division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Hatton has not faced the best competition available lately, but his opponents have had more televised efforts. TV status and p4p status are two entirely different things.
Munoz, Kikui and Navarro are all top fighters, that gave it their all in those fights and I reemphasize they are all in their primes.
You compare Munoz to Urango
well look at the fights, Munoz and Mijares fought tooth and nail for 12 rounds in an exciting fight.
Hatton and Urango fought for five rounds and then Hatton pulled that John Ruiz shit for the rest of the fight, I don't see how that helps his p4p status personally.
Mijares is dominant in the superfly divison. The next step is Montiel, maybe Gorres
Hatton has NEVER lost at 140. That makes him pretty dominant in the 140 divison, no? The next step is Paulie the guy rated 2.
Munoz, Kikui and Navarro are all top fighters, that gave it their all in those fights and I reemphasize they are all in their primes.
What makes them better class fighters than Collazo (WBA 147 champ), Urango (IBF unbeaten 140 champ) and Floyd (Best P4P in the world)? They are fighters in their PRIME (Capitals for emphasis) that gave it their all, no?
You compare Munoz to Urango?
Munoz was a belt holder at superfly. Urango was a belt holder at Lightwelter. Mijares won an exciting SD. Hatton won a boring UD. SO.. basically you're penalising Hatton for BORING you.
All you have is - Mijares rates higher than Hatton because you like Mijares but don't like Hatton.
Fact ;)
amen to that
certain american members on here just seem set out to discredit the hitman at every single opportunity.
The guy is a proven established champion...theres no argument i or you could give to deny that fact.
Why on earth some on here seem hell bent on dispelling that god only knows. One things for sure though.........its getting really old and boring now.
No I have Mijares ahead because he is dominating over the best, while Hatton is barely getting by. Collazo close fight Hatton won on my scorecard only bcause of the flash knockdown in the first round.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterSorry.. I'll do this the lazy way.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepJust because you haven't heard of someone doesn't mean they aren't world class. bottom line is Mijares is fighting the best competition available to him and winning convincingly the next step has to be Montiel, maybe Gorres otherwise he is clearly dominant in that division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Hatton has not faced the best competition available lately, but his opponents have had more televised efforts. TV status and p4p status are two entirely different things.
Munoz, Kikui and Navarro are all top fighters, that gave it their all in those fights and I reemphasize they are all in their primes.
You compare Munoz to Urango
well look at the fights, Munoz and Mijares fought tooth and nail for 12 rounds in an exciting fight.
Hatton and Urango fought for five rounds and then Hatton pulled that John Ruiz shit for the rest of the fight, I don't see how that helps his p4p status personally.
Mijares is dominant in the superfly divison. The next step is Montiel, maybe Gorres
Hatton has NEVER lost at 140. That makes him pretty dominant in the 140 divison, no? The next step is Paulie the guy rated 2.
Munoz, Kikui and Navarro are all top fighters, that gave it their all in those fights and I reemphasize they are all in their primes.
What makes them better class fighters than Collazo (WBA 147 champ), Urango (IBF unbeaten 140 champ) and Floyd (Best P4P in the world)? They are fighters in their PRIME (Capitals for emphasis) that gave it their all, no?
You compare Munoz to Urango?
Munoz was a belt holder at superfly. Urango was a belt holder at Lightwelter. Mijares won an exciting SD. Hatton won a boring UD. SO.. basically you're penalising Hatton for BORING you.
All you have is - Mijares rates higher than Hatton because you like Mijares but don't like Hatton.
Fact ;)
Urango won the strap via homecooking I had that fight 8 rounds to 4 for Ben Rabah what was your scorecard on that fight? Plus it's not that I don't like Hatton, but like I said he pulled a John Ruiz against Urango for 6 rounds, which yes if a fighter hugs his way to victory I hold it against them. Mayweather well he lost, not much to debate there, of course PBF was p4p number 1 but he lost.
FACT.
Which is why Miajres out points Hatton in a P4P basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterExactly! Judging soley on records is totally misleading - and can be easily countered. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Because he is more skilled then Hatton.
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Miguel Cotto
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Israel Vasquez
5. Kelly Pavlik
6. Joe Calzaghe
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Fernando Montiel
9. Christian Mijares
10.Ivan Calderon
Mijares is beating the best in his division (Guys coming of losses in Japanese title fights ;D).Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepNo I have Mijares ahead because he is dominating over the best, while Hatton is barely getting by. Collazo close fight Hatton won on my scorecard only bcause of the flash knockdown in the first round.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterSorry.. I'll do this the lazy way.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
Mijares is dominant in the superfly divison. The next step is Montiel, maybe Gorres
Hatton has NEVER lost at 140. That makes him pretty dominant in the 140 divison, no? The next step is Paulie the guy rated 2.
Munoz, Kikui and Navarro are all top fighters, that gave it their all in those fights and I reemphasize they are all in their primes.
What makes them better class fighters than Collazo (WBA 147 champ), Urango (IBF unbeaten 140 champ) and Floyd (Best P4P in the world)? They are fighters in their PRIME (Capitals for emphasis) that gave it their all, no?
You compare Munoz to Urango?
Munoz was a belt holder at superfly. Urango was a belt holder at Lightwelter. Mijares won an exciting SD. Hatton won a boring UD. SO.. basically you're penalising Hatton for BORING you.
All you have is - Mijares rates higher than Hatton because you like Mijares but don't like Hatton.
Fact ;)
Urango won the strap via homecooking I had that fight 8 rounds to 4 for Ben Rabah what was your scorecard on that fight? Plus it's not that I don't like Hatton, but like I said he pulled a John Ruiz against Urango for 6 rounds, which yes if a fighter hugs his way to victory I hold it against them. Mayweather well he lost, not much to debate there, of course PBF was p4p number 1 but he lost.
FACT.
AS I said, you rate Mijares over Hatton because you like him more. You don't like Hatton's style. Judging by records Mijares comes out 2nd. And you know it.
Fact ;)
Yeah, i'd probably back Mijares in a P4P situation too ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickWhich is why Miajres out points Hatton in a P4P basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterExactly! Judging soley on records is totally misleading - and can be easily countered. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Because he is more skilled then Hatton.
I would even say Ivan Calderons ahead of Hatton in P4P status.
Ivans undefeated 2 weight champ he actually beat the lineal champ when he moved up.
Ivan himself has a better shot at top 10 P4P.
Now that is a fact.
This is coming from someone who likes Hatton.
Difference is I'm realistic. Trust me if Hatton would have at least looked good vs. Lazcano (someone whom he was suppose to look good against) I would have no problem "possibly" rating him top 10. I just have issues with his performances as of late. Hes looked far from what a P4P fighter is suppose to be.
Also saying he lasted 10 rds. with PBF means shit all.
ODLH went 12 with PBF so what.
JLC went 12 twice with PBF argueably beating him once.
OK..... They still lost.
Truth is P4P lists are all subject to opinion. I like to look at different things record, opposition, skills displayed, performances among other things.
I think Mijares has been much more impressive then Hatton as of late and therefor would rate him higher.
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I wouldn't rate Hatton or Mijares P4P worthy at the moment. I guess you can make cases for them though.. if you want ;)
#Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
not a bad list G , but i cant believe there isnt a place for Manfredo in there ???????
Paul Williams. NO OTHER WORDS. Give TALL PAUL a chance and u will see. Return of the Boogie Man. 147 lb is his. Berto-NO. Cotto- NO. Margo- NO. Just test him and u will find out. LB for Lb. Just Test. No talk, Just TEST
And no judging by records Hatton comes out behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterMijares is beating the best in his division (Guys coming of losses in Japanese title fights ;D).Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepNo I have Mijares ahead because he is dominating over the best, while Hatton is barely getting by. Collazo close fight Hatton won on my scorecard only bcause of the flash knockdown in the first round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Urango won the strap via homecooking I had that fight 8 rounds to 4 for Ben Rabah what was your scorecard on that fight? Plus it's not that I don't like Hatton, but like I said he pulled a John Ruiz against Urango for 6 rounds, which yes if a fighter hugs his way to victory I hold it against them. Mayweather well he lost, not much to debate there, of course PBF was p4p number 1 but he lost.
FACT.
AS I said, you rate Mijares over Hatton because you like him more. You don't like Hatton's style. Judging by records Mijares comes out 2nd. And you know it.
Fact ;)
Except for Mayweather (which Hatton lost to)
Mijares has fought higher rated (by the ring) fighters and been more successful against them. Period.
Hatton's last 5 have ALL been rated by The Ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepAnd no judging by records Hatton comes out behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterMijares is beating the best in his division (Guys coming of losses in Japanese title fights ;D).Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
AS I said, you rate Mijares over Hatton because you like him more. You don't like Hatton's style. Judging by records Mijares comes out 2nd. And you know it.
Fact ;)
Except for Mayweather (which Hatton lost to)
Mijares has fought higher rated (by the ring) fighters and been more successful against them. Period.
You telling me The Ring had Gorjux and Kikui ranked? If so, that shows how POOR the division currently is/was
A Journeyman and Japanese level fighter ranks above "world" champions in comparison with Hatton's comp ;D
man that must really kill u putting Calzaghe in ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise