Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
IMHO if PAC was not succesful in destroying both ODLH and Hatton this catchweight topics will not even be brought up. Obviously alot of people is threatened by PAC. Give the guy a break he will lose too, sometime.
Good point and Oscar Pac wasn't even a catchweight fight! They fought at 147 lbs, a legit weight class.
A catchweight would have been between 147 and 154 and better for Oscar and for fightfans
This is where the pac thing gets weird and illogical for me. Okay Bilbo (or anyone else for that matter), since you're obviously an articulate individual. Please explain to me how it's okay for PACMAN to fight a man bigger than both Cotto and Mosley at their weight class, but not fight them at their own? If I didn't ask that clearly then I'll do it this way...
How does this makes sense:
PACMAN v OSCAR @ 154 (No! oscar too big must come down to 147)
PAC v COTTO or MOSLEY @ 147 (No! 147 too big must come down)
WTF !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? To me the answer is clear but I'll wait for your response. ;)
wow are you serious with that question?
before i answer i have one for you, did you think pac would do what he did before he fought oscar?
ok to answer your question....at the time pac was a featherweight who recently fought at 135. As for Oscar, he was fighting as a light middle weight but had recently fought forbes at 152 or 150 ( i can't remember). The fight with pac is then made and the fight is to be fought at the welterweight division. Tell me did majority of the people before the fight happen thought "oh pac is going to pick oscar apart cause oscar is going down in weight" or was it " oh oscar is going to kill pac, pac is going up in weight too much; he wont be as fast, wont be as strong, power punches wont have any affect."
See after what we all have seen from pac we are disregarding the fact that his still a fighter well known as a featherweight not a lightweight not a welterweight. The guy has had 1 fight at lightweight, 1 fight at junior welterweight and 1 fight at welterweight. Plus before and after the oscar fight there were no plans of staying at 147. Pac planned to stay at 140 and would only go up in weight to get the big fights. Oscar is a huge fight, mosley,cotto and floyd are big fights. Pac fought Oscar at 147 because unlike cotto, Oscar is a junior middle weight. Did you want pac to fight at 154? Plus is pac asking Cotto and Mosley to come down to 140? no his asking to meet him near half way. Like i said Pac had no plans to stay at 147. At 140 his already outweight by 5 pounds and his actually going up more weights than cotto or mosley is going down in weight.
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Ok I made my reply Saddo can you please save me from myself and ban this account too.
I'm going to a calm myself down now lest I get worked up into a state.
Off to the TS fap boards for me to work off some of this energy :)
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Good point and Oscar Pac wasn't even a catchweight fight! They fought at 147 lbs, a legit weight class.
A catchweight would have been between 147 and 154 and better for Oscar and for fightfans
This is where the pac thing gets weird and illogical for me. Okay Bilbo (or anyone else for that matter), since you're obviously an articulate individual. Please explain to me how it's okay for PACMAN to fight a man bigger than both Cotto and Mosley at their weight class, but not fight them at their own? If I didn't ask that clearly then I'll do it this way...
How does this makes sense:
PACMAN v OSCAR @ 154 (No! oscar too big must come down to 147)
PAC v COTTO or MOSLEY @ 147 (No! 147 too big must come down)
WTF !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? To me the answer is clear but I'll wait for your response. ;)
wow are you serious with that question?
before i answer i have one for you, did you think pac would do what he did before he fought oscar?
ok to answer your question....at the time pac was a featherweight who recently fought at 135. As for Oscar, he was fighting as a light middle weight but had recently fought forbes at 152 or 150 ( i can't remember). The fight with pac is then made and the fight is to be fought at the welterweight division. Tell me did majority of the people before the fight happen thought "oh pac is going to pick oscar apart cause oscar is going down in weight" or was it " oh oscar is going to kill pac, pac is going up in weight too much; he wont be as fast, wont be as strong, power punches wont have any affect."
See after what we all have seen from pac we are disregarding the fact that his still a fighter well known as a featherweight not a lightweight not a welterweight. The guy has had 1 fight at lightweight, 1 fight at junior welterweight and 1 fight at welterweight. Plus before and after the oscar fight there were no plans of staying at 147. Pac planned to stay at 140 and would only go up in weight to get the big fights. Oscar is a huge fight, mosley,cotto and floyd are big fights. Pac fought Oscar at 147 because unlike cotto, Oscar is a junior middle weight. Did you want pac to fight at 154? Plus is pac asking Cotto and Mosley to come down to 140? no his asking to meet him near half way. Like i said Pac had no plans to stay at 147. At 140 his already outweight by 5 pounds and his actually going up more weights than cotto or mosley is going down in weight.
I totally get what you're saying...but here's the thing somebody isn't explaining it correctly to me.
How is a man bigger than 147 (oscar) okay to get in the ring with at 147? And then turn around and say men that are already 147 are too big? That makes no sense.
Esp considering all things said. Pac weighing 142 against Oscar more recently than Cotto or mosley have been. Cotto hasn't been that small in over three years. Mosely hasn't been less than 146 in over ten years. So asking them to come down to 142 or 143, as I said considering what Manny weighed against Oscar and how he didn't appear to lose any of his ability in weighing 142. So therefore meeting at 142-143 isn't really a catch weight but rather a weight with a catch to give Manny the bigger advantage.
It's not that I'm against Manny or anything it's just if there's a hint that cotto or mosely could look like oscar, id rather not see it. And with a fighter as old as mosley 38, he could fall of cliff overnight. I'd much rather see fighters at the their own OPTIMUM WEIGHT preform against each other. Not "well I'll come in at 90% if you agree to come in at 85%." Or "I'll take a little speed off, if you take some of the power away", I want to see 100% vs 100%. If Manny isn't big enough to be 100% at WW and Cotto or Mosley are to big to be 100% lower than 147 then it shouldn't be made.
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
This is where the pac thing gets weird and illogical for me. Okay Bilbo (or anyone else for that matter), since you're obviously an articulate individual. Please explain to me how it's okay for PACMAN to fight a man bigger than both Cotto and Mosley at their weight class, but not fight them at their own? If I didn't ask that clearly then I'll do it this way...
How does this makes sense:
PACMAN v OSCAR @ 154 (No! oscar too big must come down to 147)
PAC v COTTO or MOSLEY @ 147 (No! 147 too big must come down)
WTF !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? To me the answer is clear but I'll wait for your response. ;)
wow are you serious with that question?
before i answer i have one for you, did you think pac would do what he did before he fought oscar?
ok to answer your question....at the time pac was a featherweight who recently fought at 135. As for Oscar, he was fighting as a light middle weight but had recently fought forbes at 152 or 150 ( i can't remember). The fight with pac is then made and the fight is to be fought at the welterweight division. Tell me did majority of the people before the fight happen thought "oh pac is going to pick oscar apart cause oscar is going down in weight" or was it " oh oscar is going to kill pac, pac is going up in weight too much; he wont be as fast, wont be as strong, power punches wont have any affect."
See after what we all have seen from pac we are disregarding the fact that his still a fighter well known as a featherweight not a lightweight not a welterweight. The guy has had 1 fight at lightweight, 1 fight at junior welterweight and 1 fight at welterweight. Plus before and after the oscar fight there were no plans of staying at 147. Pac planned to stay at 140 and would only go up in weight to get the big fights. Oscar is a huge fight, mosley,cotto and floyd are big fights. Pac fought Oscar at 147 because unlike cotto, Oscar is a junior middle weight. Did you want pac to fight at 154? Plus is pac asking Cotto and Mosley to come down to 140? no his asking to meet him near half way. Like i said Pac had no plans to stay at 147. At 140 his already outweight by 5 pounds and his actually going up more weights than cotto or mosley is going down in weight.
I totally get what you're saying...but here's the thing somebody isn't explaining it correctly to me.
How is a man bigger than 147 (oscar) okay to get in the ring with at 147? And then turn around and say men that are already 147 are too big? That makes no sense.
Esp considering all things said. Pac weighing 142 against Oscar more recently than Cotto or mosley have been. Cotto hasn't been that small in over three years. Mosely hasn't been less than 146 in over ten years. So asking them to come down to 142 or 143, as I said considering what Manny weighed against Oscar and how he didn't appear to lose any of his ability in weighing 142. So therefore meeting at 142-143 isn't really a catch weight but rather a weight with a catch to give Manny the bigger advantage.
It's not that I'm against Manny or anything it's just if there's a hint that cotto or mosely could look like oscar, id rather not see it. And with a fighter as old as mosley 38, he could fall of cliff overnight. I'd much rather see fighters at the their own OPTIMUM WEIGHT preform against each other. Not "well I'll come in at 90% if you agree to come in at 85%." Or "I'll take a little speed off, if you take some of the power away", I want to see 100% vs 100%. If Manny isn't big enough to be 100% at WW and Cotto or Mosley are to big to be 100% lower than 147 then it shouldn't be made.
the thing is we really can't say who will come in 100% in any fight, thats why they are negotiating a catchweight. Pac looked good beating oscar but is there a double standard? Pac beat a drain Oscar or is he really good enough to fight at 147 against Cotto.
We really dont know at this point, but right now pac is at 140 and imo is still outweight. If he fights any higher he'll be more outweight, thats what gets me because people are talking about pac has the advantage but his far smaller then people acknowledge.
I think people are forgetting fight strategy matters the most. After seeing what pac did to Oscar and Hatton they seem to forget that any of these fight is still very risky/dangerous for pac.
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo's Mom
Ok I made my reply Saddo can you please save me from myself and ban this account too.
I'm going to a calm myself down now lest I get worked up into a state.
Off to the TS fap boards for me to work off some of this energy :)
Willpower isn't exactly your forte is it?
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
This is where the pac thing gets weird and illogical for me. Okay Bilbo (or anyone else for that matter), since you're obviously an articulate individual. Please explain to me how it's okay for PACMAN to fight a man bigger than both Cotto and Mosley at their weight class, but not fight them at their own? If I didn't ask that clearly then I'll do it this way...
How does this makes sense:
PACMAN v OSCAR @ 154 (No! oscar too big must come down to 147)
PAC v COTTO or MOSLEY @ 147 (No! 147 too big must come down)
WTF !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? To me the answer is clear but I'll wait for your response. ;)
wow are you serious with that question?
before i answer i have one for you, did you think pac would do what he did before he fought oscar?
ok to answer your question....at the time pac was a featherweight who recently fought at 135. As for Oscar, he was fighting as a light middle weight but had recently fought forbes at 152 or 150 ( i can't remember). The fight with pac is then made and the fight is to be fought at the welterweight division. Tell me did majority of the people before the fight happen thought "oh pac is going to pick oscar apart cause oscar is going down in weight" or was it " oh oscar is going to kill pac, pac is going up in weight too much; he wont be as fast, wont be as strong, power punches wont have any affect."
See after what we all have seen from pac we are disregarding the fact that his still a fighter well known as a featherweight not a lightweight not a welterweight. The guy has had 1 fight at lightweight, 1 fight at junior welterweight and 1 fight at welterweight. Plus before and after the oscar fight there were no plans of staying at 147. Pac planned to stay at 140 and would only go up in weight to get the big fights. Oscar is a huge fight, mosley,cotto and floyd are big fights. Pac fought Oscar at 147 because unlike cotto, Oscar is a junior middle weight. Did you want pac to fight at 154? Plus is pac asking Cotto and Mosley to come down to 140? no his asking to meet him near half way. Like i said Pac had no plans to stay at 147. At 140 his already outweight by 5 pounds and his actually going up more weights than cotto or mosley is going down in weight.
I totally get what you're saying...but here's the thing somebody isn't explaining it correctly to me.
How is a man bigger than 147 (oscar) okay to get in the ring with at 147? And then turn around and say men that are already 147 are too big? That makes no sense.
I just explained it before!
Let's break it down step by step. Please read this carefully......
Manny Pacquaio was prior to the Oscar fight a brilliant 130 lb fighter, and arguably p4p number 1 in the world.
Oscar was a 154 lb multiple weight champ and the most popular and biggest grossing PPV non heavyweight champ of all time!
A fight between these two modern day legends had the potential to be a HUGE EVENT grossing MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF POUNDS.
But there was a problem, Manny is tiny and fights at 130 whereas Oscar is much bigger and fights at 154, damn so no fight, impossible....
BUT humans have invented this great idea called COMPROMISE where both parties in a contract dispute decide to give up a little something and meet in the middle to come to agreement, its a process that works very well in life across all fields :)
So Manny agreed to go up 17 lbs and Oscar agreed to go down 7 lbs. That was a FAIR compromise, in fact at the time it was announced everyone criticised OSCAR for picking on a smaller man and being at such an ADVANTAGE.
Now the fight happened and to everyones suprise Manny knocked Oscar the fuck out. So the critics changed their tune and started banging a different drum, Manny took the easy option! Oscar was weight drained etc! Thus the armchair fan is once again 'right' in his own eyes and an idiot in reality.
So Manny destroys Oscar and now wants bigger challenges.
Meanwhile Cotto and Mosely also want bigger challenges.
Now this is the important part. At this point NONE OF THEM CARE ABOUT WORLD TITLE TRINKET BELTS. They are all multiple weight and multiple time champions and are WORLD CLASS ELITE FIGHTERS and so want only to fight other WORLD CLASS ELITE FIGHTERS to make lots and lots of money, fot lots of bragging rights and glory to the winner and for GREAT GREAT fights for us fans.
But again there is the same problem. Manny is not as big as these guys. He's a career 130lb fighter and these are 147 lbs big guys. As Manny's optimum weight is 140 lbs it would seem its only fair that these guys also give a little, like Oscar did to COMPROMISE and thus these MEGA FIGHTS can be made.
Those who say it demeans the world titles or weight classes are so completely missing the point its unbelievable.
For Manny, Mosely, Cotto and Oscar it NO LONGER ABOUT WORLD TITLES AND WEIGHT DIVISIONS. These fighters have already DONE THAT AND CONQUERED. Now they want ONLY ELITE CHALLENGES WHICH IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL IN BOXING!!!!!
So we get to see these potential mega fights, the very very best p4p fighters in the world fighting each other ITS THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF BOXING!
But for these fights to happen there HAS to be a compromise as not all fighters weigh the same.
How can you people not understand this? It doesn't matter about weight classes and alphabet belts any more because all these fighters have all already acomplished this! When you've done that, one world titles in different weights and become the best p4p fighters in the world the goal then isn't to win more alphabet belts but to fight the OTHER best p4p fighters in the world!!!
These fights are BIGGER than alphabet world title fights, and transcend any weight class they happen to be in.
Surely you guys can grasp this? :confused:
Why in the world would you want to prevent these MEGA FIGHTS which represent the PINNACLE of our sport from occuring because you want to see the alphabet belts and weight classes respected when these fighters have already won enough belts and conquered weight classes?
These fights represent the pinnacle of boxing, and are more important than any belt or weight class, this is what you conquer weight classes and win belts for, to become the best and then fight the best!
Now the best can fight each other, but to be fair to BOTH fighters they COMPROMISE over the weight, both give up something, and both give a little ground so as to make the fights we all want to see the most!
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Cotto would outweigh Pac 10 to 15 pounds come fight night if the fight took place at 147. Do you guys think that's fair? I think the catchweight is necessary.
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo's Mom
Ok I made my reply Saddo can you please save me from myself and ban this account too.
I'm going to a calm myself down now lest I get worked up into a state.
Off to the TS fap boards for me to work off some of this energy :)
Willpower isn't exactly your forte is it?
Did i miss something who the hell is Bilbo's Mom ?
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ASIAN SENSATION
Cotto would outweigh Pac 10 to 15 pounds come fight night if the fight took place at 147. Do you guys think that's fair? I think the catchweight is necessary.
No..because when mosely fought mayorga at 154..mayorga came in at 170 on fight night and still got KO'ed
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
This is where the pac thing gets weird and illogical for me. Okay Bilbo (or anyone else for that matter), since you're obviously an articulate individual. Please explain to me how it's okay for PACMAN to fight a man bigger than both Cotto and Mosley at their weight class, but not fight them at their own? If I didn't ask that clearly then I'll do it this way...
How does this makes sense:
PACMAN v OSCAR @ 154 (No! oscar too big must come down to 147)
PAC v COTTO or MOSLEY @ 147 (No! 147 too big must come down)
WTF !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? To me the answer is clear but I'll wait for your response. ;)
wow are you serious with that question?
before i answer i have one for you, did you think pac would do what he did before he fought oscar?
ok to answer your question....at the time pac was a featherweight who recently fought at 135. As for Oscar, he was fighting as a light middle weight but had recently fought forbes at 152 or 150 ( i can't remember). The fight with pac is then made and the fight is to be fought at the welterweight division. Tell me did majority of the people before the fight happen thought "oh pac is going to pick oscar apart cause oscar is going down in weight" or was it " oh oscar is going to kill pac, pac is going up in weight too much; he wont be as fast, wont be as strong, power punches wont have any affect."
See after what we all have seen from pac we are disregarding the fact that his still a fighter well known as a featherweight not a lightweight not a welterweight. The guy has had 1 fight at lightweight, 1 fight at junior welterweight and 1 fight at welterweight. Plus before and after the oscar fight there were no plans of staying at 147. Pac planned to stay at 140 and would only go up in weight to get the big fights. Oscar is a huge fight, mosley,cotto and floyd are big fights. Pac fought Oscar at 147 because unlike cotto, Oscar is a junior middle weight. Did you want pac to fight at 154? Plus is pac asking Cotto and Mosley to come down to 140? no his asking to meet him near half way. Like i said Pac had no plans to stay at 147. At 140 his already outweight by 5 pounds and his actually going up more weights than cotto or mosley is going down in weight.
I totally get what you're saying...but here's the thing somebody isn't explaining it correctly to me.
How is a man bigger than 147 (oscar) okay to get in the ring with at 147? And then turn around and say men that are already 147 are too big? That makes no sense.
makes perfect sense to me... it's not about them being too physically big... it's about them being drained. :)
154 guys will most likely be drained at 147 so it's OK to fight them at that.
147 guys obviously wouldn't be drained at 147 so I guess we'll have to drag them down a bit lower.
Roach isn't stupid... and luckily for him the team have the $$$ ability to pull it off.
oh what a PPV shaped golden carrot will get people willing to do just to get a peice of it.
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Bilbo is dominating this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Just wondering, because they have manny number one, but most of the time the fighters that have been ranked number 1 have gone to other's divisions and beaten them. RJJ, PERNELL, FLOYD, SHANE. Not once did either of them demand a catch weight.
Pacquiao has done the same. I'm basically done defending the catchweight. I've done it for countless amounts of posts but again, Bilbo is absolutely spot on IMO. Honestly, Pacquiao just keeps on fighting bigger guys throughout his career and these fighters are the biggest names in the game!!! How can people continue to hate on him?! He's on top! And is still looking for the big fights. Floyd got to the top and looked and is looking for easier fights for more money. RJJ has a very debatable resume. Pernell and Shane gets no complaints from me. They looked to fight the best and beat them as well. Again, I still can't understand anyone who can't appreciate Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blegit
I think Pac should still be #1 p4p with the demanding of catchweights. I just don't think its even close to sensible for a weightclass title to be on the line when his team is demanding a catchweight for a title. That is a shenanigan that further sets boxing back. But what I do think this demanding of catchweights does is question his confidence and tarnish credibility. The all time greats went directly to the weight classes and fought the best in it. They never tried to gain an advantage by squeezing the bigger guy down to a weight determined by their team. If Pac's team was asking a small welterweight to a catchweight then thats reasonable. But they are going completely opposite. Roach has admitted his tactic by saying PBF is the only welterweight he would let Pac fight at 147 and that Mosley and Cotto have to meet at a catchweight. Leonard was way smaller than Hagler. He went to his weight class. That is all time greatness the fans want to see.
You mean the same Leonard that demanded Donny Lalonde to fight at 168 for his LHW title. That Leonard? How about JCC demanding Whitaker fight at a catchweight of 145 for his WBC ww title? Or how about Oscar demanding a 39 year old Hopkins come in at 158 for his MW titles? I thought you said the all time greats didn't demand catchweights?
Pacman isn't the first to demand catchweights, and there isn't any story out there saying that the WW titles are on the line.
Again with the titles! Bulldog is right! When has the titles been put up for grabs?! People still complain about titles being fought for outside of the proper weight class but the title isn't on the line...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
The catchweights are bullshit.
Theres no two ways about it.
Why is there so much hate about catchweights?
I mean what's important is that the best fighters face each other, and do so at the weight that is healthiest for both of them?
The alphabet belts and even weights divisions don't mean anything in the great scheme of things, both are creations of man to help give the sport a sense of order but they are nothing more than that.
If Manny was to fight and beat Miguel Cotto at 143 for example it would make no difference at all to the merit of the win than were it fought at 140 or 147 imo.
They are still fighting each other, and 143 would be the best compromise.
We shouldn't let entirely man made organisational constructs like weight divisions and belts get in the way of making the best fights.
That's just letting beaurocracy blind your senses and stopping you from enjoying the great fights.
What matters in boxing is the best fighters fighting the best fighters. Belts and weight classes are there to help organise that process and provide a structure but they shouldn't supersede the main goal of putting on the best fights.
Well my JFAT Alliance brother, I must disagree.
Boxing Gloves are man made contructions.
So are mouth pieces.
And rounds.
Why don't we just have them fight it out to the death to see who is TRULY the best?
lol
The weight classes are there for a reason.
Cotto has been fighting at 147 for a few years now and if Pacquaio wants to fight him, then he can fight him at HIS weight.
Not make him drain and starve himself down to a weight that gives pac man an advantage over him before they even step in the ring.
That is not the Christian way.
And Pacquaio is a devout Catholic from what I understand.
Pacquiao wants to fight Cotto?! Cotto wants to fight Pacquiao!! Everyone wants the fight with Manny because it brings them the most money and he is the P4P best. If Cotto doesn't accept the terms, Pac has numerous options.
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
wow are you serious with that question?
before i answer i have one for you, did you think pac would do what he did before he fought oscar?
ok to answer your question....at the time pac was a featherweight who recently fought at 135. As for Oscar, he was fighting as a light middle weight but had recently fought forbes at 152 or 150 ( i can't remember). The fight with pac is then made and the fight is to be fought at the welterweight division. Tell me did majority of the people before the fight happen thought "oh pac is going to pick oscar apart cause oscar is going down in weight" or was it " oh oscar is going to kill pac, pac is going up in weight too much; he wont be as fast, wont be as strong, power punches wont have any affect."
See after what we all have seen from pac we are disregarding the fact that his still a fighter well known as a featherweight not a lightweight not a welterweight. The guy has had 1 fight at lightweight, 1 fight at junior welterweight and 1 fight at welterweight. Plus before and after the oscar fight there were no plans of staying at 147. Pac planned to stay at 140 and would only go up in weight to get the big fights. Oscar is a huge fight, mosley,cotto and floyd are big fights. Pac fought Oscar at 147 because unlike cotto, Oscar is a junior middle weight. Did you want pac to fight at 154? Plus is pac asking Cotto and Mosley to come down to 140? no his asking to meet him near half way. Like i said Pac had no plans to stay at 147. At 140 his already outweight by 5 pounds and his actually going up more weights than cotto or mosley is going down in weight.
I totally get what you're saying...but here's the thing somebody isn't explaining it correctly to me.
How is a man bigger than 147 (oscar) okay to get in the ring with at 147? And then turn around and say men that are already 147 are too big? That makes no sense.
makes perfect sense to me... it's not about them being too physically big... it's about them being drained. :)
154 guys will most likely be drained at 147 so it's OK to fight them at that.
147 guys obviously wouldn't be drained at 147 so I guess we'll have to drag them down a bit lower.
Roach isn't stupid... and luckily for him the team have the $$$ ability to pull it off.
oh what a PPV shaped golden carrot will get people willing to do just to get a peice of it.
Finally a logical and obvious answer. Its to drain them plain and simple...Way to say it instead of trying to disguise it as "a compromise"
That's like if roy jones after beating ruiz, said "I want to fight lennox lewis but he has to come down to 210", then he wouldn't have been fighting lewis, he'd be fighting a shell of lewis.
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
catchweights have nothing to do with p4p rankings.
I have no problem with fighters that agree with each other fighting at whatever weight. As brought up before my only problem is the title that's on the line.
Have always thought the p4p a media frenzy...a tag line for quick consumption that is extremely subjective.A dominate and defending fighter meeting his biggest challenges in a given division is what we need. Shite....people focus on a catch weight
prior to a bout but how about the actual "unofficial' weight of each fighter once the bell rings.A catch weight too and fro.
Why does it really matter what weight the fight is at, what belt is on the line, what division (or not) that the fight is being held?
What's important is that the best fight each other.
If Manny were to fight Floyd, Shane or Miguel at a catch weight I don't care less. All I care about is that they fight at the best weight that will give us the best fight!
If Manny is too small at 147 let them fight at 143, I don't care if he's fighting for a world title really, it doesn't make the fight any less important, or more importantly entertaining, and that ultimately is all I care about.
Thats where I differ on exactly what the best fight possible is exactly.I think we are getting way to caught up in the rush and the almost manufacturing of 'the best fighting the best' boosted by the mythical p4p throne.History is littered with guys meeting outside of their 'natural' weight classes but as of late it is overdone and almost has a circus type of feel.The haggling and splitting hairs over the current catch weight BS.If it is that much of a parlor game and problem for camps/fighters to agree....it may just be an indicator that some proposed fights are not meant to be....or simply that the warranted concerns are not worth it to some fighters.I'm a firm believer in guys taking care of the legitimate threats within a respected weight range in division first and foremost.Years later if you want to be called the best middleweight etc.....you had better of contested with the best to be found in the era prior to division leaping for mega-ultra-super-dooper name attractions.
I'll take the bait as coincidentally the name missing from Mannys proposed threats you mentioned is that of the man who has given him his toughest scraps and his most heated rival recently...Marquez.I might be in the minority...but that is the fight that needs to happen if its close competitive fan friendly and entertaining matches that I'm looking for.Far more than a Oscar/Pacquioa fight and I believe far more than a Marquez/Mayweather fight.
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Cotto has been fighting at 147 for a few years now and if Pacquaio wants to fight him, then he can fight him at HIS weight.
Not make him drain and starve himself down to a weight that gives pac man an advantage over him before they even step in the ring.
That is not the Christian way.
And Pacquaio is a devout Catholic from what I understand.
it works both ways you know? remember pac is a midget, naturally bigger guys is an advantage for them already. if pac fights cotto at 147 then the advantage obviously goes to cotto. bring the weight down a little then its fair for the both of them. well except for jmm, i would love to see them fight one more time.
and isnt this supposed to be in the manny thread?
pac is a midget lets not forget that, he is giving us boxing fans a favor by fighting bigger guys. we wouldnt be enjoying his fights if he fights guy of the same size as him cause we all know what will happen. except for jmm i would love to see them fight again!
isnt this supposed to be in the pac thread? or the pac thread is just for spam?
Re: Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?
This thread is so stupid Manny isn't too small for 147, and he will prove that when he beats Miguel Cotto, the best WW in the world, at 147.
