Re: Pac having blood taken 20 days before the Clottey fight..
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Originally Posted by
killersheep
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Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
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Originally Posted by
killersheep
Why does it matter if his opponents made weight or not? That doesn't change the fact that he DIDN'T make weight 11 times. Clottey is a big welter it's just a matter of time until he CAN'T make weight. This is a much more real risk and would be a much bigger advantage to Clottey than it ever would to Mayweather. Furthermore Mayweather missed weight ONE time at a catchweight 147 Mayweather - 144 JMM there are two examples as you pointed out that Clottey has done this, both times his opponents at welterweight.
It matters because you're implying that Clottey pulled a "chickenshit" on his opponent 11 times. Are you trying to tell us that both Clottey and his opponent did not make weight 11 times? Or were they fighting at Super Welterweight?
But the way Mayweather missed the weight gave a lot of people the impression that he did not even intend to make that weight. If he intend to remain within the weight agreement in the Pacquiao fight (and it would not be a hardship on his part since he made it in his last fight), then the $ 10,000,000 demand would not even be an issue.
The other option that Team Pacquiao could have asked is for the fight to be cancelled if either of them missed weight which had happened in the Corrales-Castillo III. Would you rather have that stipulation?
I would have no problem with that. Mayweather would have no problem with that either, afterall he did agree to give up $10,000,000 per pound, something he wouldn't agree to had he intended to not make weight. This is an endless circle these points have been made a million times in dozens of threads, we are never going to agree on this, so not much point in continuing this debate.
Didn't you already say that you did not mean to get sucked back in this? Oh yeah, I also said that I rest my case.
So, what the heck are we still doing in this thread?
Re: Pac having blood taken 20 days before the Clottey fight..
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Originally Posted by
miles
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Originally Posted by
Althugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Exactly, Manny is full of shit.
He's making a song and dance, "ooh look at me I am being tested 20 days out see!". It means nothing, testing needs to be random or nothing. Seems like a bullshit PR move to me, but we can all see through it. He won't fight Mayweather because of random testing, so being checked 20 days out against Clottey has little relevance.
Anyone making excuses for Manny is deluded IMO, all this talk of ego and not being dictated to are really lame excuses, as were the excuses about being afraid of blood tests. Manny's stock has fallen horribly and I just have to laugh when I hear the guy mentioned in threads like this because it is all so pathetic and lame.
Miles, I keep hearing you say Manny has come out looking bad and his stock has fallen but I really don't see that.
Everywhere you turn, you see Manny being given the bye and Floyd being blamed for not wanting the fight/being too big for his boots with his demands/being a pussy etc etc.
Youtube (lowest common denominator, I know) is the best example but even my casual boxing friends all think Floyd pussied the fight. I'm shocked that Manny has come out of this smelling of roses and people are willing to let him off the hook for refusing to prove he's a clean athlete and, perhaps even more importantly, create the biggest fight in boxing history for the fans.
Interesting. I find it hard to fathom how any informed person could argue that Manny doesn't at the very least look extremely suspicious. I suppose there are too many huggers out there with no critical thinking skills and a lot of others who simply haven't followed the issue as closely as we have.
It is certainly by my reckoning that he has fallen. I'm sure on some poll I started that the vast majority of voters thought Manny should take the tests, so I am sure most of those people are of the same thinking. I would argue that the consensus here at Saddo's is that Manny looks like a dodgy, fight ducking punk, but as for how it is out there on You Tube, I really don't know. You are a brave man, going out there into the ghetto! ;D
I might start a thread about "Manny's reputation" to see what people are really thinking on here.
Unfortunately it is true. This forum I have found is the most level headed of all the ones I go through. People that post on boxingscene are constantly giving Floyd shit about all this. Youtube is out of control though. I would say the majority of people that post on videos concerning Pac or Floyd are doggin Floyd hard and feel he is the reason all this fell apart. I agree with everything you have said regarding this whole debacle.
To me it just seems like common sense, these are blood tests here. Imagine the backlash if it was Floyd refusing blood tests. Holy shit I would kill myself with all the Pac huggers bs everywhere.
Floyd asking for the test was just...great. I am not even sure he knew there would be this type of backlash or reaction.
Re: Pac having blood taken 20 days before the Clottey fight..
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Originally Posted by
markb018
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Originally Posted by
miles
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Originally Posted by
Althugz
Miles, I keep hearing you say Manny has come out looking bad and his stock has fallen but I really don't see that.
Everywhere you turn, you see Manny being given the bye and Floyd being blamed for not wanting the fight/being too big for his boots with his demands/being a pussy etc etc.
Youtube (lowest common denominator, I know) is the best example but even my casual boxing friends all think Floyd pussied the fight. I'm shocked that Manny has come out of this smelling of roses and people are willing to let him off the hook for refusing to prove he's a clean athlete and, perhaps even more importantly, create the biggest fight in boxing history for the fans.
Interesting. I find it hard to fathom how any informed person could argue that Manny doesn't at the very least look extremely suspicious. I suppose there are too many huggers out there with no critical thinking skills and a lot of others who simply haven't followed the issue as closely as we have.
It is certainly by my reckoning that he has fallen. I'm sure on some poll I started that the vast majority of voters thought Manny should take the tests, so I am sure most of those people are of the same thinking. I would argue that the consensus here at Saddo's is that Manny looks like a dodgy, fight ducking punk, but as for how it is out there on You Tube, I really don't know. You are a brave man, going out there into the ghetto! ;D
I might start a thread about "Manny's reputation" to see what people are really thinking on here.
Unfortunately it is true. This forum I have found is the most level headed of all the ones I go through. People that post on boxingscene are constantly giving Floyd shit about all this. Youtube is out of control though. I would say the majority of people that post on videos concerning Pac or Floyd are doggin Floyd hard and feel he is the reason all this fell apart. I agree with everything you have said regarding this whole debacle.
To me it just seems like common sense, these are blood tests here. Imagine the backlash if it was Floyd refusing blood tests. Holy shit I would kill myself with all the Pac huggers bs everywhere.
Floyd asking for the test was just...great. I am not even sure he knew there would be this type of backlash or reaction.
I suppose it just confirms my suspicions that most people are inherently stupid and only see what they want to see. A shame really as there is no good argument against the request to undergo random blood testing.
All I seem to hear is "Why should Manny do what Floyd wants?", "Pac is too proud", or "Manny has always passed drug tests, so why bother now?". These are such flimsy little arguments. It's almost like people will just accept any excuse simply to allow it to fit in with their mindview that Pac is god and can do no wrong.
A professional athlete being unwilling to undergo the kind of testing that is commonplace in other sports raises immediate questionmarks. The fact that Mosley a known cheater has now agreed so easily to the tests, just makes Manny look even worse.
Of course it can be argued that it is up to the commision to raise the game and so they should. It shouldn't have needed Floyd Mayweather to make it become the issue it has though. It shows the regulatory bodies as archaic and seriously out of touch with modern testing procedures. We already see Manny waving the retirement flag before we are likely to see any changes...if ever we will.
Re: Pac having blood taken 20 days before the Clottey fight..
After my long hiatus in boxing, it is disconcerting to know that the same people are still talking about Pac not taking the random blood testing;D
Anyway, I myself have been disenchanted with Pac but I've decided to put this issue to rest until a new negotiation would come up with the Mayweather camp.
Re: Pac having blood taken 20 days before the Clottey fight..
if Pacquiao's name was Floyd Mayweather his reputation would be destroyed and he would probably never be able to come back on it with the media on him 24/7 with questions and millions of sportswriters saying bad about him.
Know why?
Cause Pacquiao = money to them and is easily sold as the good guy, he could do whatever he wants to and it would only maybe appear in small news, you wouldn't see it on ESPN or anything at all.
But Mayweather makes a statement and its on ESPN and they bash him for anything he says.
How much news have you heard about the Cotto situation?
Little to none, except one article.
Boxing never attacks their good guys.. until AFTER retirement when they are no longer profitable inside the ring. If Mayweather J-walked across the street you'd hear about it. But Pacquiao and his camp have been a rolling ball of contradictions as has his promoter Bob Arum, but nobody is saying anything the only place you see it is on here or a boxing site, but its never covered by big news. And you know all these "analysts" and everything see the same articles we do, and they COULD say something about it.. but they don't, its saddening how there are no more boxing writers, they are just a bunch of forum goers trying to put a spin on their own story under a professional name.
Sportswriters are the biggest "trolls" on the internet nowadays, and its saddening how we are forum goers in some of the things we say and find out do more and print more then they ever do and they know twice as much as it's their job to. Saddening to see one boxer favored so much and getting a pass on it and the fighter who exposed him get flack for it.
Re: Pac having blood taken 20 days before the Clottey fight..
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
if Pacquiao's name was Floyd Mayweather his reputation would be destroyed and he would probably never be able to come back on it with the media on him 24/7 with questions and millions of sportswriters saying bad about him.
Know why?
Cause Pacquiao = money to them and is easily sold as the good guy, he could do whatever he wants to and it would only maybe appear in small news, you wouldn't see it on ESPN or anything at all.
But Mayweather makes a statement and its on ESPN and they bash him for anything he says.
How much news have you heard about the Cotto situation?
Little to none, except one article.
Boxing never attacks their good guys.. until AFTER retirement when they are no longer profitable inside the ring. If Mayweather J-walked across the street you'd hear about it. But Pacquiao and his camp have been a rolling ball of contradictions as has his promoter Bob Arum, but nobody is saying anything the only place you see it is on here or a boxing site, but its never covered by big news. And you know all these "analysts" and everything see the same articles we do, and they COULD say something about it.. but they don't, its saddening how there are no more boxing writers, they are just a bunch of forum goers trying to put a spin on their own story under a professional name.
Sportswriters are the biggest "trolls" on the internet nowadays, and its saddening how we are forum goers in some of the things we say and find out do more and print more then they ever do and they know twice as much as it's their job to. Saddening to see one boxer favored so much and getting a pass on it and the fighter who exposed him get flack for it.
Lots of good issues you brought up. Before Manny, it was Oscar who could do nothing wrong in the eyes of most of the media. The "good guys" in boxing are rarely attacked because many writers are on their payroll.
And I agree about the fact that there are no more boxing writers these days. When you think of boxing writers over the years, some great names come to mind. My favorite was probably Liebling, but there were so many others: like Ring Lardner, , Jimmy Cannon, Paul Gallico, W.C. Heinz, Harry Mullan, Red Smith, Jack Fiske-the list is endless.
The last good one, in my opinion, was Michael Katz; he said whatever he wanted, no one owned him I loved his fearless attitude. He's still writing for a Vegas gambling journal called "Gaming Today," where his role is handicapping fights.
Re: Pac having blood taken 20 days before the Clottey fight..
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
if Pacquiao's name was Floyd Mayweather his reputation would be destroyed and he would probably never be able to come back on it with the media on him 24/7 with questions and millions of sportswriters saying bad about him.
Know why?
Cause Pacquiao = money to them and is easily sold as the good guy, he could do whatever he wants to and it would only maybe appear in small news, you wouldn't see it on ESPN or anything at all.
But Mayweather makes a statement and its on ESPN and they bash him for anything he says.
How much news have you heard about the Cotto situation?
Little to none, except one article.
Boxing never attacks their good guys.. until AFTER retirement when they are no longer profitable inside the ring. If Mayweather J-walked across the street you'd hear about it. But Pacquiao and his camp have been a rolling ball of contradictions as has his promoter Bob Arum, but nobody is saying anything the only place you see it is on here or a boxing site, but its never covered by big news. And you know all these "analysts" and everything see the same articles we do, and they COULD say something about it.. but they don't, its saddening how there are no more boxing writers, they are just a bunch of forum goers trying to put a spin on their own story under a professional name.
Sportswriters are the biggest "trolls" on the internet nowadays, and its saddening how we are forum goers in some of the things we say and find out do more and print more then they ever do and they know twice as much as it's their job to. Saddening to see one boxer favored so much and getting a pass on it and the fighter who exposed him get flack for it.
It has nothing to do with the name but with the personality behind the name.
Mayweather has projected himself as a villian and he has been good at that. It helps sell fights. A significant number of spectators that come to watch his fights come there hoping to watch him get beaten up. So you are correct in that regards. If Floyd did what Manny did, his reputation may be destroyed. His enemies will be out for his blood.
People suffer from the consequences of their previous actions. This is a brutal world that we live in and life isn't always fair.
Re: Pac having blood taken 20 days before the Clottey fight..
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
if Pacquiao's name was Floyd Mayweather his reputation would be destroyed and he would probably never be able to come back on it with the media on him 24/7 with questions and millions of sportswriters saying bad about him.
Know why?
Cause Pacquiao = money to them and is easily sold as the good guy, he could do whatever he wants to and it would only maybe appear in small news, you wouldn't see it on ESPN or anything at all.
But Mayweather makes a statement and its on ESPN and they bash him for anything he says.
How much news have you heard about the Cotto situation?
Little to none, except one article.
Boxing never attacks their good guys.. until AFTER retirement when they are no longer profitable inside the ring. If Mayweather J-walked across the street you'd hear about it. But Pacquiao and his camp have been a rolling ball of contradictions as has his promoter Bob Arum, but nobody is saying anything the only place you see it is on here or a boxing site, but its never covered by big news. And you know all these "analysts" and everything see the same articles we do, and they COULD say something about it.. but they don't, its saddening how there are no more boxing writers, they are just a bunch of forum goers trying to put a spin on their own story under a professional name.
Sportswriters are the biggest "trolls" on the internet nowadays, and its saddening how we are forum goers in some of the things we say and find out do more and print more then they ever do and they know twice as much as it's their job to. Saddening to see one boxer favored so much and getting a pass on it and the fighter who exposed him get flack for it.
It has nothing to do with the name but with the personality behind the name.
Mayweather has projected himself as a villian and he has been good at that. It helps sell fights. A significant number of spectators that come to watch his fights come there hoping to watch him get beaten up. So you are correct in that regards. If Floyd did what Manny did, his reputation may be destroyed. His enemies will be out for his blood.
People suffer from the consequences of their previous actions. This is a brutal world that we live in and life isn't always fair.
yeah but here's the problem, if we look at everything Pacquiao is getting away with and we just accept it because "hey the sportswriters don't like the other guy and don't want to make him right" then we're staring at a bigger problem in the sport of boxing in general. The sport of boxing is known for shooting itself in the foot, but if not just it or the writers who do stories for boxing turn a blind eye to it, then they have no shot.
Boxing is in an era now where they are trying to differentiate between themselves and MMA, and while the boxing enthusiasts look at it like human cock fighting tell me whats worse. A sport that some people are trying to play off as barbaric, or a sport that caters to their good guys which they hype and build up as such that they can get away with millions of contradictions and is very very biased.
See wrestling used to get flack for showing favoritism to their stars that were on steroids and not suspending them properly, and when that whole incident happened and blew up it was a major blow to their credibility.
Boxing can't afford to suffer that kind of scandal because they "don't want to be wrong" on a situation, they let this slide and there's no telling what kind of slope and path it goes down after this which would only ruin boxing's reputation which hasn't exactly been good either. This is beyond just hyping a fight and keeping the bad guy bad, this is letting a guy slide because you have favoritism for it. If boxing lets this slide, it's going to suffer majorly in the long run. The last thing they should be concerned about is just keeping ties on it cause they 'dont like mayweather' because long after Mayweather is retired, this scandal will still be fresh, and when it's exposed boxing will have a lot more to worry about. And there's only itself to blame.
