Lucian Bute

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Originally Posted by Nameless

No, you're both Andrade fan boy, admitted by both account ;) But back to seriousness, I wouldn't mind if Bute lost 2-3 or 4 rounds, wouldn't make much difference to me as all 3 results mean a clean and more than convincing victory and as objective as I can be (assuming we can never be 100%), I do not give him nothing more than 2 including the 12th.
As for the judges, I would say that strange verdicts happen everywhere, why? I dunno, they didn't see the fight the same way or perhaps that the fact that there is a huge rivalry between Interbox and Gym did plays a bit of role, especially considering that the Grant brothers are hugely popular here and because they work with GYM which is the promotion powerhouse in Quebec at the moment (mainly because of the great influence of Yvon Michel, rated as one of the top 25 most important boxing figure on the scene at the moment). Not saying that it is the reason of the verdict but it realistically could have played a small role.

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So a company that had no interest in the fight was somehow controlling the judges to spite InterBox? :-X:-\

I may be an Andrade fan, but I agree he was losing the fight and well. My criticisms of the fight were solely down to the refereeing throughout, nothing to do with Bute. Bute would have won and (again ignoring the controversial end) deservedly so. But, we've already shown that he didn't completely shutout Andrade for the prior 11 rounds because even you in all your Bute fandom have found another round that could be Andrade's. Thank you for proving my point, my good friend ;)

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by ICB

Well thats why i did say "unless i read that wrong". Im not getting worked up at all, i just wanted to know what you exactly meant.

As for James Toney why do you think im biased, when it comes to James Toney ? just because in one thread where i thought he had all the attributes ?

Yes i do think he had all the attributes. Speed, Power, Defense, Chin, ETC. It's just sometimes he didn't take fights that seriously, which cost him at times.

But at his best he is a complete fighter, and yes i do truly believe that. But thats not to say i think he's unbeatable, he can be beat by movers and ETC.

And plus i do think he got some gifts, especially from Dave Tiberi. But he also did get shafted a few times himself aka Montel Griffin.

Lastly as for the Michael Nunn fight, i feel Michael Nunn threw alot of pitty patt punches. And James Toney was able to take risks late on, walkthrough those punches and come on late.

Its clear as day Michael Nunn was fading, because he had lost the 3 previous rounds. I think James Toney could of still pulled out a draw, i had him 6-4 down going into the 11th round.

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Mate, with all due respect, there's certain fighters that everyone knows it's not worth getting into a debate about with you because you like them and that's cool, not saying there's anything wrong with that.

I, and most people, feel Nunn had that fight sewn up if he'd stayed on his feet & that would of been the case on the cards too.

There's no point having a debate about James Toney on a Lucian Bute thread.

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Fair enough move on ;)

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

A hell of a lot of better 168 pounders out there right now. The division is one of the strongest in the sport right now

kessler, abraham, froch, ward, dirrell and pascal all take bute if you ask me

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If you think they all beat Bute then you have seen very very limited footage of Bute....Bute has more power then given credit for. He is awkward but not in an uncontrolled sense, he has great speed not RJJ SMW speed but certainly more then Froch, AA, Kessler....Dirrell is faster but not the finisher Bute is and not as accurate.....He spent the early part of his career comfortably at LHW so no one in the SMW could be considered a size problem for him...

Bute is the real deal....Make no mistakes about it...Right njow IMO the best fight in the division assuming Ward can keep up the momentum he started in the Kessler fight is Ward/Bute and it is a Pick em with the assumption the Kessler fight is not Wards swan song

I am a fan of the guy for sure....Sat behind him at the Froch/Taylor fight...He seemed very unimpressed and was very vocal on how the outcome of that fight would be if they ever met

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWEhCEUJAL8&feature=fvst

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

A hell of a lot of better 168 pounders out there right now. The division is one of the strongest in the sport right now

kessler, abraham, froch, ward, dirrell and pascal all take bute if you ask me

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If you think they all beat Bute then you have seen very very limited footage of Bute....Bute has more power then given credit for. He is awkward but not in an uncontrolled sense, he has great speed not RJJ SMW speed but certainly more then Froch, AA, Kessler....Dirrell is faster but not the finisher Bute is and not as accurate.....He spent the early part of his career comfortably at LHW so no one in the SMW could be considered a size problem for him...

Bute is the real deal....Make no mistakes about it...Right njow IMO the best fight in the division assuming Ward can keep up the momentum he started in the Kessler fight is Ward/Bute and it is a Pick em with the assumption the Kessler fight is not Wards swan song

I am a fan of the guy for sure....Sat behind him at the Froch/Taylor fight...He seemed very unimpressed and was very vocal on how the outcome of that fight would be if they ever met

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWEhCEUJAL8&feature=fvst

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I agree in the main. He's a much better puncher than people give him in credit for, particularly with his hooks to the body as demonstrated against Andrade.

I actually think Abraham is the toughest matchup for him, despite the body-punching skills. I think that Bute is vulnerable to a counter left hook from an orthodox fighter. Abraham explodes out with his and when Dirrell with all his athleticism was missing this by the skin of his teeth throughout their fight, I feel Bute would get caught.

I feel Dirrell & Abraham are 50/50 fights, I'd favour them to beat him marginally. I think Ward sets himself up for trouble against southpaws with the way he just holds his jab out as a measuring stick.

Bute would beat Kessler by decision similar to the Calzaghe fight & he would break Froch down in 4-5 rounds imo.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

A hell of a lot of better 168 pounders out there right now. The division is one of the strongest in the sport right now

kessler, abraham, froch, ward, dirrell and pascal all take bute if you ask me

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If you think they all beat Bute then you have seen very very limited footage of Bute....Bute has more power then given credit for. He is awkward but not in an uncontrolled sense, he has great speed not RJJ SMW speed but certainly more then Froch, AA, Kessler....Dirrell is faster but not the finisher Bute is and not as accurate.....He spent the early part of his career comfortably at LHW so no one in the SMW could be considered a size problem for him...

Bute is the real deal....Make no mistakes about it...Right njow IMO the best fight in the division assuming Ward can keep up the momentum he started in the Kessler fight is Ward/Bute and it is a Pick em with the assumption the Kessler fight is not Wards swan song

I am a fan of the guy for sure....Sat behind him at the Froch/Taylor fight...He seemed very unimpressed and was very vocal on how the outcome of that fight would be if they ever met

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWEhCEUJAL8&feature=fvst

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I agree in the main. He's a much better puncher than people give him in credit for, particularly with his hooks to the body as demonstrated against Andrade.

I actually think Abraham is the toughest matchup for him, despite the body-punching skills. I think that Bute is vulnerable to a counter left hook from an orthodox fighter. Abraham explodes out with his and when Dirrell with all his athleticism was missing this by the skin of his teeth throughout their fight, I feel Bute would get caught.

I feel Dirrell & Abraham are 50/50 fights, I'd favour them to beat him marginally. I think Ward sets himself up for trouble against southpaws with the way he just holds his jab out as a measuring stick.

Bute would beat Kessler by decision similar to the Calzaghe fight & he would break Froch down in 4-5 rounds imo.

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Good assessments......I am in no way trying to act as though Bute walks through any of these guys because the SMW division is stacked right now...As for fighting AA that is NEVER a fight easy to pick...I still don't think we learned anything new about AA in the Dirrell fight except he came in and was surprised by the speed....AA has the ability to beat anyone in or around SMW with one shot landed correct....Plus the guy gets stronger as the fight wears on....

Just I in no way can comfortably say any of then beats Bute....I am still not exactly sure why he was not in the Super 6?....I think it is because he had contract obligations when the tourney was signed....Could be wrong though..

Anyone know exactly why?

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

If you think they all beat Bute then you have seen very very limited footage of Bute....Bute has more power then given credit for. He is awkward but not in an uncontrolled sense, he has great speed not RJJ SMW speed but certainly more then Froch, AA, Kessler....Dirrell is faster but not the finisher Bute is and not as accurate.....He spent the early part of his career comfortably at LHW so no one in the SMW could be considered a size problem for him...

Bute is the real deal....Make no mistakes about it...Right njow IMO the best fight in the division assuming Ward can keep up the momentum he started in the Kessler fight is Ward/Bute and it is a Pick em with the assumption the Kessler fight is not Wards swan song

I am a fan of the guy for sure....Sat behind him at the Froch/Taylor fight...He seemed very unimpressed and was very vocal on how the outcome of that fight would be if they ever met

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWEhCEUJAL8&feature=fvst

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I agree in the main. He's a much better puncher than people give him in credit for, particularly with his hooks to the body as demonstrated against Andrade.

I actually think Abraham is the toughest matchup for him, despite the body-punching skills. I think that Bute is vulnerable to a counter left hook from an orthodox fighter. Abraham explodes out with his and when Dirrell with all his athleticism was missing this by the skin of his teeth throughout their fight, I feel Bute would get caught.

I feel Dirrell & Abraham are 50/50 fights, I'd favour them to beat him marginally. I think Ward sets himself up for trouble against southpaws with the way he just holds his jab out as a measuring stick.

Bute would beat Kessler by decision similar to the Calzaghe fight & he would break Froch down in 4-5 rounds imo.

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Good assessments......I am in no way trying to act as though Bute walks through any of these guys because the SMW division is stacked right now...As for fighting AA that is NEVER a fight easy to pick...I still don't think we learned anything new about AA in the Dirrell fight except he came in and was surprised by the speed....AA has the ability to beat anyone in or around SMW with one shot landed correct....Plus the guy gets stronger as the fight wears on....

Just I in no way can comfortably say any of then beats Bute....I am still not exactly sure why he was not in the Super 6?....I think it is because he had contract obligations when the tourney was signed....Could be wrong though..

Anyone know exactly why?

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He was offered the spot, but he or InterBox turned it down for HBO exposure. Made sense as they were mandated into an Andrade rematch, which he made the most of. Assuming they both win this weekend, I suspect HBO are looking to set up a fight with Pavlik.

I differ in that I think Bute would walk through Froch. He'd do a mixture of the late rounds of the Dirrell-Froch fight & the early rounds of Froch-Taylor, but he'd make sure to finish him when he had him hurt. If you've got the power to drop Andrade, you can definitely do Froch.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

If you think they all beat Bute then you have seen very very limited footage of Bute....Bute has more power then given credit for. He is awkward but not in an uncontrolled sense, he has great speed not RJJ SMW speed but certainly more then Froch, AA, Kessler....Dirrell is faster but not the finisher Bute is and not as accurate.....He spent the early part of his career comfortably at LHW so no one in the SMW could be considered a size problem for him...

Bute is the real deal....Make no mistakes about it...Right njow IMO the best fight in the division assuming Ward can keep up the momentum he started in the Kessler fight is Ward/Bute and it is a Pick em with the assumption the Kessler fight is not Wards swan song

I am a fan of the guy for sure....Sat behind him at the Froch/Taylor fight...He seemed very unimpressed and was very vocal on how the outcome of that fight would be if they ever met

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWEhCEUJAL8&feature=fvst

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I agree in the main. He's a much better puncher than people give him in credit for, particularly with his hooks to the body as demonstrated against Andrade.

I actually think Abraham is the toughest matchup for him, despite the body-punching skills. I think that Bute is vulnerable to a counter left hook from an orthodox fighter. Abraham explodes out with his and when Dirrell with all his athleticism was missing this by the skin of his teeth throughout their fight, I feel Bute would get caught.

I feel Dirrell & Abraham are 50/50 fights, I'd favour them to beat him marginally. I think Ward sets himself up for trouble against southpaws with the way he just holds his jab out as a measuring stick.

Bute would beat Kessler by decision similar to the Calzaghe fight & he would break Froch down in 4-5 rounds imo.

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Good assessments......I am in no way trying to act as though Bute walks through any of these guys because the SMW division is stacked right now...As for fighting AA that is NEVER a fight easy to pick...I still don't think we learned anything new about AA in the Dirrell fight except he came in and was surprised by the speed....AA has the ability to beat anyone in or around SMW with one shot landed correct....Plus the guy gets stronger as the fight wears on....

Just I in no way can comfortably say any of then beats Bute....I am still not exactly sure why he was not in the Super 6?....I think it is because he had contract obligations when the tourney was signed....Could be wrong though..

Anyone know exactly why?

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Because he had already agreed to rematch Andrade and I think his contract with HBO also had something to do with it.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

I agree in the main. He's a much better puncher than people give him in credit for, particularly with his hooks to the body as demonstrated against Andrade.

I actually think Abraham is the toughest matchup for him, despite the body-punching skills. I think that Bute is vulnerable to a counter left hook from an orthodox fighter. Abraham explodes out with his and when Dirrell with all his athleticism was missing this by the skin of his teeth throughout their fight, I feel Bute would get caught.

I feel Dirrell & Abraham are 50/50 fights, I'd favour them to beat him marginally. I think Ward sets himself up for trouble against southpaws with the way he just holds his jab out as a measuring stick.

Bute would beat Kessler by decision similar to the Calzaghe fight & he would break Froch down in 4-5 rounds imo.

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Good assessments......I am in no way trying to act as though Bute walks through any of these guys because the SMW division is stacked right now...As for fighting AA that is NEVER a fight easy to pick...I still don't think we learned anything new about AA in the Dirrell fight except he came in and was surprised by the speed....AA has the ability to beat anyone in or around SMW with one shot landed correct....Plus the guy gets stronger as the fight wears on....

Just I in no way can comfortably say any of then beats Bute....I am still not exactly sure why he was not in the Super 6?....I think it is because he had contract obligations when the tourney was signed....Could be wrong though..

Anyone know exactly why?

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Because he had already agreed to rematch Andrade and I think his contract with HBO also had something to do with it.

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Thats what I had figured...I had said that in the beginning of the Tourney when someone else asked the question but was not positive

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Good assessments......I am in no way trying to act as though Bute walks through any of these guys because the SMW division is stacked right now...As for fighting AA that is NEVER a fight easy to pick...I still don't think we learned anything new about AA in the Dirrell fight except he came in and was surprised by the speed....AA has the ability to beat anyone in or around SMW with one shot landed correct....Plus the guy gets stronger as the fight wears on....

Just I in no way can comfortably say any of then beats Bute....I am still not exactly sure why he was not in the Super 6?....I think it is because he had contract obligations when the tourney was signed....Could be wrong though..

Anyone know exactly why?

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Because he had already agreed to rematch Andrade and I think his contract with HBO also had something to do with it.

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Thats what I had figured...I had said that in the beginning of the Tourney when someone else asked the question but was not positive

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I think if it wasn't for the controversy surrounding the end of the first Andrade fight he would have found a way to get involved in the Super 6, but I don't know how binding his HBO contract would have been.

HMMM....Especially with HBO...They can be real fickle over there...He would have probably found a way around it like you said but still at what price in the long run...

The Super Six wouldn't have been able to play the USA-vs-Europe angle with Bute... then again he is really a Romanian. Sub that Euro in now

It's good imo for there to be a guy like Bute outside of the Super 6. If Bute was in then it would be a less quality guy making a name for himself outside the Super 6 and it wouldn't be as much fun afterwards. Imo, Bute is number 1 in the division. I'd pick only Ward to beat him comfortably, I say that because Bute has relatively no inside game and since he's just as fast as Bute with his feet, I don't think he would give him much room to breathe the whole night.


Abraham of course he has a chance, Dirrell I don't think is sharp enough, nor polished and mentally tough enough to beat Bute. Froch, Kessler and Green would be picked apart imo.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Nameless

No, you're both Andrade fan boy, admitted by both account ;) But back to seriousness, I wouldn't mind if Bute lost 2-3 or 4 rounds, wouldn't make much difference to me as all 3 results mean a clean and more than convincing victory and as objective as I can be (assuming we can never be 100%), I do not give him nothing more than 2 including the 12th.
As for the judges, I would say that strange verdicts happen everywhere, why? I dunno, they didn't see the fight the same way or perhaps that the fact that there is a huge rivalry between Interbox and Gym did plays a bit of role, especially considering that the Grant brothers are hugely popular here and because they work with GYM which is the promotion powerhouse in Quebec at the moment (mainly because of the great influence of Yvon Michel, rated as one of the top 25 most important boxing figure on the scene at the moment). Not saying that it is the reason of the verdict but it realistically could have played a small role.

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So a company that had no interest in the fight was somehow controlling the judges to spite InterBox? :-X:-\

;)

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Honestly, it could... not saying it did but it could there has been a tons of bad blood between Yvon Michel and Eric Lucas because of some things that did happen during the era where Yvon Michel and Lucas were both in Interbox... they don't like each others but keep it civics, I am not kidding here, these facts are well known in Quebec and some articles on RDS have been written about it, I could skim the archives to see if I could find them...
As for the shut out... let's say that 10 (admitting we give Andrade 2) to 2 is quite a shut out ;)

Is everyone in agreement Bute will walk through Miranda?

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Is everyone in agreement Bute will walk through Miranda?

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I think he will, if Miranda wins a single round I'll consider it an upset to be honest.