After Wlad ko's Haye in the 12th, where will he stand on the All Time Greats list?

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Originally Posted by Dave Hughey

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Originally Posted by paddy448

The wlad haye fight is by no means a foregone conclusion. Also comparing wlad with Ali. Come on dave hughey what the fukk man

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I would love to see Wlad or Vitali fight Ali, toe to toe in their prime. Wouldn't you?

I personally think every fight fan on earth would want to see that match, and probably every little old lady, high school kid and college professor, too.

And let me ask you this. Would you bet the farm on either fighter?

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Ali crushes both.

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Originally Posted by Dave Hughey

The Klits are the biggest, strongest, most athletic heavyweight boxersof all-time. Plus, they hit hard. They are certainly faster than any boxer I can remember for their size. They've got amazingly quick reflexes. I see them dodging most punches by backing straight up, like Ali. They have dominated the heavyweight division like no other champions.

Now we get to see if Wlad can call the round like Ali. Punish another great fighter like Haye. I've watched Haye. He's a great fighter. Fast, hits like a horse kicks.

But watch the Klits. I saw somebody criticize them for their jab, jab, jab, LOL. Amazing that someone would criticize them for that! LOL. I've always heard the jab was the greatest weapon and sets up everything else.

But it's more than just a jab, jab, jab. Watch them closely. Watch their eyes. They are watching their opponent intently, punishing him with the jab while they watch and focus on and watch and watch their opponent's pattern and figure out exactly how they are going to take him apart.

It (usually) takes 10 to 20 years for the ATG's to be recognized. I'm going to stick my neck out and say the Klits will be recognized as ATG's. I hope to live to see that happen.

I'm not saying HW p4p ATG's. So please don't throw Marciano at me. I'm saying toe to toe in the ring in their prime ATG's.

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No it just looks like jab, jab, jab to me :) It is unfortunate that the Klit brothers are fighting in the worst era of heavyweight boxing because we will never see there real potential but my guess would be Wlad vs ATG = BAD KO!

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Hopkins was Green when he lost, he wasn't a veteran of 40 fights and world champion of 4 years ;)

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...just get over it, my God you just beat a dead horse....may I add that Lennox Lewis got sparked out with 1 punch from Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall, and as bad as people say Wlad's chin is he's never been sparked with 1 punch.

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Yet......comon Hayemaker!

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by Dave Hughey

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Originally Posted by paddy448

The wlad haye fight is by no means a foregone conclusion. Also comparing wlad with Ali. Come on dave hughey what the fukk man

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I would love to see Wlad or Vitali fight Ali, toe to toe in their prime. Wouldn't you?

I personally think every fight fan on earth would want to see that match, and probably every little old lady, high school kid and college professor, too.

And let me ask you this. Would you bet the farm on either fighter?

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Ali crushes both.

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Mr. Pride, I'd like to hear your answers to the 2 questions I asked Paddy 448. In fact, I'd like to hear everyone's answers.

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Originally Posted by Dave Hughey

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by Dave Hughey

I would love to see Wlad or Vitali fight Ali, toe to toe in their prime. Wouldn't you?

I personally think every fight fan on earth would want to see that match, and probably every little old lady, high school kid and college professor, too.

And let me ask you this. Would you bet the farm on either fighter?

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Ali crushes both.

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Mr. Pride, I'd like to hear your answers to the 2 questions I asked.

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I actually answered your question earlier in the thread. I think Wlad is the most dominat HW in the division today and will absolutly go down as the best HW of the era as for ATG status, he'll probably make a good argument for it. Vitali, probably not, though at his peak he was damn good. Wlad has held the strap longer, been more dominant at the top and is in no way showing signs of slowing down. I think it is possible. I don't put alot of stock in the weak competition argument due to both Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano both having generally weak competition in their respective reigns. Joe louis's fights were once refered to as the "bum of the month club" yet both men are held in high regard on the ATG list and rightfully so. It's not a fighters fault that the competition is fairly weak. It's just disheartening to know that we'll never really know what they're capable of. Althought Wlad and Vitali are strong and large a guy like Ali with a chin, superior handspeed and far better legs would be a stylistic nightmare for either one regardless of their respective skills. Neither would have much of a shot.

Does that answer your questions?

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Wlad is one of the most boring Heavyweights of all time. His record sucks and he has been battered by 3 nobodies!

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Unfortunately, this thread is not about who bores you. It is about who comes out on top in toe to toe fights among the great heavyweights.

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Originally Posted by Dave Hughey

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Wlad is one of the most boring Heavyweights of all time. His record sucks and he has been battered by 3 nobodies!

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Unfortunately, this thread is not about who bores you. It is about who comes out on top in toe to toe fights among the great heavyweights.

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When has Wlad ever gone toe to toe? I must have missed that fight or was it when he got KTFO? by nobodys!

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Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

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Originally Posted by Dave Hughey

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Wlad is one of the most boring Heavyweights of all time. His record sucks and he has been battered by 3 nobodies!

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Unfortunately, this thread is not about who bores you. It is about who comes out on top in toe to toe fights among the great heavyweights.

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When has Wlad ever gone toe to toe? I must have missed that fight or was it when he got KTFO? by nobodys!

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You guys are confusing the hell out of me. I'm not a Klitschko fan but I can look at them objectively. Who are the nobodies? Purrity was but other than that he lost to a very strong 38-2(at the time) Corrie Sanders and a determined 29-2(at the time) Lamon Brewster. Although I think Wlad is a boring fighter and am not a fan, it's neither here nor there. Neither Corrie Sanders or Lamon Brewster are nobodies. I think your bias may be getting in the way of your objectivity.

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Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

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Originally Posted by Dave Hughey

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Wlad is one of the most boring Heavyweights of all time. His record sucks and he has been battered by 3 nobodies!

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Unfortunately, this thread is not about who bores you. It is about who comes out on top in toe to toe fights among the great heavyweights.

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When has Wlad ever gone toe to toe? I must have missed that fight or was it when he got KTFO? by nobodys!

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Gee, I thought everyone knew what "going toe to toe" meant. To me it means something like "having a fight face to face or head to head" both fighters in the same ring at the same time under the same ref and same rules. Seems like all of Wlad's fights have been that way, whether he won or lost, or bored the pants off the audience.

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Originally Posted by Dave Hughey

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Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

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Originally Posted by Dave Hughey

Unfortunately, this thread is not about who bores you. It is about who comes out on top in toe to toe fights among the great heavyweights.

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When has Wlad ever gone toe to toe? I must have missed that fight or was it when he got KTFO? by nobodys!

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Gee, I thought everyone knew what "going toe to toe" meant. To me it means something like "having a fight face to face or head to head" both fighters in the same ring at the same time under the same ref and same rules. Seems like all of Wlad's fights have been that way, whether he won or lost, or bored the pants off the audience.

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Actually what toe to toe means is like Gatti/Ward or Margarito/Williams... It's fighting in a phone booth where neither man is backing up or using movement. But I knew what you meant.

I agree with BIG H Vitali Klitschko's resume is pretty poor, and he's more known for his losses than he's actual wins.

As for Wladimir Klitschko i really don't get the hype he gets, everyone keeps telling me he's improved so much. I don't see it all i see is that he's so defensive and scared of getting hit on his chin.

Which gives us the fans pretty poor so called Heavyweight championship fights. I mean is fighting scared or so defensive really an improvement ? the only reason he's allowed to get away with it, is because none of the heavyweights now have ever heard of a thing called "Slipping the jab".

And everyone keeps telling me how good Wladimir Klitschko's opposition, has been lately i don't see it.

Sultan Ibragimov = A draw against Ray Austin, won his title off a fighter with asthma who can't even fight for more than 10 seconds, he also faded against a 46 year old Evander Holyfield for christ sakes, and people make out this is some kind of dangerous opponent ? give me a break, any of the old ATG would of destroyed him.

Eddie Chambers = This wasn't a bad win for Wladimir Klitschko, Eddie Chambers isn't that bad, but again he's 2nd best to Alexander Povetkin who deserved his shot, considering he handily beat Eddie Chambers.

Chris Byrd = Already beat him the 1st time.

Lamon Brewster = Shot.

Tony Thompson = No wins worth mentioning really, except Luan Krasniqi who gave Lamon Brewster a tough fight but still lost.

Hasim Rahman = Mediorce and shot.

Calvin Brock = Decent win.

Ruslan Chagev = Beat the worst Heavyweight champion of all time, and wins over Skelton and Ruiz, not much else other than that really. Still a decent win for Wladimir Klitschko though.

Samuel Peter = I think he's seriously overrated, and his power is overrated aswell. He got a gift off a shot blown up Super Middleweight James Toney, i think Samuel Peter sucks in all honesty.

I agree with people saying that Wladimir Klitschko, is trying to fight the best available opponents. But that still doesn't mean there good opponents, its not Wladimir Klitschko's fault its a weak division.

But then again he could actually take some risks when fighting, and give the fans some excitement. Which is what boxing is all about entertainment.

Which is why i root for his brother more, but again his resume is pretty poor. And he gets way too overrated amongst fans.

Sorry but you can't put somebody who got knocked out in a round by a pro-celebrity golfer on the all-time great heavyweights list.

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

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Originally Posted by Dave Hughey

Unfortunately, this thread is not about who bores you. It is about who comes out on top in toe to toe fights among the great heavyweights.

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When has Wlad ever gone toe to toe? I must have missed that fight or was it when he got KTFO? by nobodys!

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You guys are confusing the hell out of me. I'm not a Klitschko fan but I can look at them objectively. Who are the nobodies? Purrity was but other than that he lost to a very strong 38-2(at the time) Corrie Sanders and a determined 29-2(at the time) Lamon Brewster. Although I think Wlad is a boring fighter and am not a fan, it's neither here nor there. Neither Corrie Sanders or Lamon Brewster are nobodies. I think your bias may be getting in the way of your objectivity.

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Corrie Sanders doesn't even take boxing serious, he likes golf more than he likes boxing. Corrie Sander's isn't bad and he has some good handspeed. But he lost to Hasim Rahman, Vitali Klitschko, in his biggest fights.

His only one good win was over Wladimir Klitschko, other than that he done virtually nothing. Had he not have beaten Wladimir Klitschko, the Klitschko fans would not be calling him a dangerous opponent.

Lamon Brewster in all honesty isn't that bad, he has some good pop. And is a brave fighter, but he has some serious flaws. Which is why he got beaten up by Clifford Eitenne. That shows you the kind of level he is at.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

When has Wlad ever gone toe to toe? I must have missed that fight or was it when he got KTFO? by nobodys!

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You guys are confusing the hell out of me. I'm not a Klitschko fan but I can look at them objectively. Who are the nobodies? Purrity was but other than that he lost to a very strong 38-2(at the time) Corrie Sanders and a determined 29-2(at the time) Lamon Brewster. Although I think Wlad is a boring fighter and am not a fan, it's neither here nor there. Neither Corrie Sanders or Lamon Brewster are nobodies. I think your bias may be getting in the way of your objectivity.

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Corrie Sanders doesn't even take boxing serious, he likes golf more than he likes boxing. Corrie Sander's isn't bad and he has some good handspeed. But he lost to Hasim Rahman, Vitali Klitschko, in his biggest fights.

His only one good win was over Wladimir Klitschko, other than that he done virtually nothing. Had he not have beaten Wladimir Klitschko, the Klitschko fans would not be calling him a dangerous opponent.

Lamon Brewster in all honesty isn't that bad, he has some good pop. And is a brave fighter, but he has some serious flaws. Which is why he got beaten up by Clifford Eitenne. That shows you the kind of level he is at.

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My point was neither of them is a nobody. Period.

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

You guys are confusing the hell out of me. I'm not a Klitschko fan but I can look at them objectively. Who are the nobodies? Purrity was but other than that he lost to a very strong 38-2(at the time) Corrie Sanders and a determined 29-2(at the time) Lamon Brewster. Although I think Wlad is a boring fighter and am not a fan, it's neither here nor there. Neither Corrie Sanders or Lamon Brewster are nobodies. I think your bias may be getting in the way of your objectivity.

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Corrie Sanders doesn't even take boxing serious, he likes golf more than he likes boxing. Corrie Sander's isn't bad and he has some good handspeed. But he lost to Hasim Rahman, Vitali Klitschko, in his biggest fights.

His only one good win was over Wladimir Klitschko, other than that he done virtually nothing. Had he not have beaten Wladimir Klitschko, the Klitschko fans would not be calling him a dangerous opponent.

Lamon Brewster in all honesty isn't that bad, he has some good pop. And is a brave fighter, but he has some serious flaws. Which is why he got beaten up by Clifford Eitenne. That shows you the kind of level he is at.

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My point was neither of them is a nobody. Period.

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I agree Lamon Brewster isn't a nobody, but if Corrie Sanders had not have fought Wladimir Klitschko. Would he even be remembered ? i think he is borderline a nobody in all honesty, he done nothing in his career other than that.