Yes you are right, and if you really look carefully it looks like Spinks took a dive too.
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Yes you are right, and if you really look carefully it looks like Spinks took a dive too.
Pur-lease! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Otley
You honestly think that Berbick, in his first defence of his WBC title, exaggerated the knockdowns and was prepared to lose his belt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otley
Yeah, ok gaay boy;D
Ha ha, Mike sure still does attract some queers even 20 0dd years on, even thouhg they never saw how great he was live;D
Here's the big thing with Tyson: there seems to be no middle ground. People either overrate him, or blatantly underrate him.
Severely washed up Berbick? Trevor was only about 30 years old when Tyson beat him.
Tyson whipped a lot of stiff opposition. He was the real deal in the ring when he was in his prime, no one can take that away from him (but people still try for some reason).
You mean this headbutting? It's absolutely absurd that you're trying to justify Tyson BITING Holyfield TWICE in the same round.Quote:
Originally Posted by koppasIs this the same Holyfield who kept on headbutting him? Find it quite bizarre that, despite being a few inches taller, Holyfield's head was nested in against Mike's for the majority of the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNCsv5X3mSc
I'm not justifying it. Just saying I can see why Mike got a bit pissed off - I don't condone the biting though, obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Oh, and for the record, that footage is from the first fight - not the fight where Tyson bit his ear. ;)
He got pissed off because he headbutted Evander and it didn't work so he bit him?Quote:
Originally Posted by koppasI'm not justifying it. Just saying I can see why Mike got a bit pissed off - I don't condone the biting though, obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Not in that fight, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Another noticeable thing in the fight, the second one, which is obvious after watching the first one is that Holyfield clearly understood that Mike lead with his head so he kept his own down as to possibly catch Tyson and make him cause the collision of domes. Either way the butts were clearly caused by Tyson not Evander.Quote:
Originally Posted by koppasNot in that fight, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
That's fair enough mate, I'm not saying Evander deserves to have a chunk of his ear bitten off. I just thought, in the second fight anyway, Evander was leading a lot with is head and spent most of the fight burrowing his head into mikes (which eventually cut). The fact of the matter is, anyway, Mike knew he was gonna lose the fight anyway and probably premeditated the biting.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Edit - you do have a valid point by the way, thinking about it.
So you say that Holyfield seeing how Tyson comes in decided to lower his head so that his head would butt with Tysons chin so he'd catch him with it. But in the same sentence say that the butts were caused by Tyson not Evander? So basically if Evander didn't lower his head to intentionally cause the top of his head to hit Tyson coming in that Tyson still would have been headbutted? Tyson always leaded with his head, Holyfield made the decision to lower his head so he could butt him intentionally with it using Tyson's force to cause it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherAnother noticeable thing in the fight, the second one, which is obvious after watching the first one is that Holyfield clearly understood that Mike lead with his head so he kept his own down as to possibly catch Tyson and make him cause the collision of domes. Either way the butts were clearly caused by Tyson not Evander.Quote:
Originally Posted by koppasNot in that fight, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
If Wladimer Klitschko fought Cris Arreola and Cris came in with his head, if Wladimer decides to lower his head to catch Cris's coming in, is it because of Arreola that the headbutts are happening? or is it because Wladimer lowered his head to ensure that it happened?
Lewis also complained about Holyfields head and you only need to look at what the drug cheat did to Rahmans head to see what a filthy, scummy, little girl cheater he is;D
The point I'm making is that if Holy knew Tyson was going to lead with his head so he put his down in order to fight fair I guess. Head vs head then it was smart because clearly Tyson was the one ended up being cut. So it was a bad strategy on Tyson's part, but then you say Tyson always lead with his head so how could that be Holy's Fault because he lowered his head to keep from being butt in the face. So he has a harder head, oh well. Of all the "unintentional" butts in the fight, the intentional ones were by Tyson where he wasn't even throwing a punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestySo you say that Holyfield seeing how Tyson comes in decided to lower his head so that his head would butt with Tysons chin so he'd catch him with it. But in the same sentence say that the butts were caused by Tyson not Evander? So basically if Evander didn't lower his head to intentionally cause the top of his head to hit Tyson coming in that Tyson still would have been headbutted? Tyson always leaded with his head, Holyfield made the decision to lower his head so he could butt him intentionally with it using Tyson's force to cause it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherAnother noticeable thing in the fight, the second one, which is obvious after watching the first one is that Holyfield clearly understood that Mike lead with his head so he kept his own down as to possibly catch Tyson and make him cause the collision of domes. Either way the butts were clearly caused by Tyson not Evander.Quote:
Originally Posted by koppasNot in that fight, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
If Wladimer Klitschko fought Cris Arreola and Cris came in with his head, if Wladimer decides to lower his head to catch Cris's coming in, is it because of Arreola that the headbutts are happening? or is it because Wladimer lowered his head to ensure that it happened?
What's funny is that Tyson is a notorious bully in the ring then when he "gets" it back everyone screams foul..I've seen him unprovoked try to break guys arms in the ring. All of his trainers each have said that he's a bully that when someone stands up to him he backs down and the way evander kept shoving him around the ring and outboxing him caused his flip outs not the "Evander headbutts"
Right on the money, no one disputes that Tyson was an exciting and gifted fighter, that is true. But those who would put him into to some "untouchable class" aren't being realistic. Styles make fights and his handlers knew who to feed him to make him look that much better. I always believed that a mid 90's version of Mercer or Foreman would have given Mike HUGE problems. Also one other thing I'd like to point out; Mike was not a multidimensional fighter, if "plan A" wasn't working he never had a "plan B", and this became evident as he became older and his "plan A" skills were not as dominant...Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprenticeAllow me to explain this to you.....Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
#1 If title defenses mean anything (and obviously they do) then JOE LOUIS is KING! And because of that I have Joe Louis as my #1 All-Time Greatest Heavyweight with Marciano and Ali following respectively.
#2 Marciano = UNDEFEATED.....FACT
#3 Marciano wasn't far from being a light heavyweight himself, the most he ever weighed for a fight was 192 vs Keene Simmons in 1951 but he mainly stayed at or around 186-188....FACT
#4 It wouldn't matter if Tyson had a fucking time machine he would NEVER have beaten Lennox Lewis ditto re: Evander Holyfield
#5 So Mike Tyson wanted to fight Ray Mercer in 2002....Wlad fought Ray in 2002, demolished him and he gets no credit for it so why would Tyson have gotten credit for it? I'm talking Mercer in the mid-late 1990's specifically right around when he beat Morrison and when he barely lost to Lewis.
#6...so you're a rabid Tyson fan, I have nothing against the guy I just like to reasonably and rationally look at the guy's career that's the difference between us
To be fair, that only happened once.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather