Gene Tunney
"I'm smart first, and a boxer second."
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Gene Tunney
"I'm smart first, and a boxer second."
What am I making up, ya'll need to read "A Flame of Pure Fire", which is a pro-Dempsey book but outlines a lot of the stupid shit he was up to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It's fine to like those old times, everyone was wearing a suit and a top hat, cool whatever, but you have to acknowledge the fact that these punks belonged to the "Boy's Club" at the time which feasted on bums and conveniently excluded black fighters.
I was on about Max saying Kov would knock Dempsey and Tunney out and Ward beating them as well.
4 pages to cover a statement nobody has claimed.
Interesting.
He's 100% right. Ward is twice the fighter either of those guys were. Tunney got whipped and given hell a few times by a middleweight, I don't see why Ward couldn't do the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
And Kov is a better puncher than Dempsey was.
Who whipped Tunney twice?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerHe's 100% right. Ward is twice the fighter either of those guys were. Tunney got whipped and given hell a few times by a middleweight, I don't see why Ward couldn't do the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
And Kov is a better puncher than Dempsey was.
Kov is a good puncher but Dempsey was vicious.
On what grounds do you think an in form Ward could not outbox those guys?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
On what grounds do you think those guys could survive a fight with Kovalev?
Dempsey was scary for the day, but he was scared of black fighters himself, and heavy+decent guys too.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWho whipped Tunney twice?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerHe's 100% right. Ward is twice the fighter either of those guys were. Tunney got whipped and given hell a few times by a middleweight, I don't see why Ward couldn't do the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
And Kov is a better puncher than Dempsey was.
Kov is a good puncher but Dempsey was vicious.
Kovalev is scary now!
Greb beat him once and was robbed at least once, the consensus was he got robbed in at least one of Tunney's wins. Harry Greb was 5'8'' and weighed 168 without cutting weight. Andre is 6'0'' and probably walks around 180-190, so he was about the same size as Tunney. Of course this is as hypothetical as a match gets, because they fought almost 100 years apart and as we know Tunney refused to fight blacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Kovalev has much better technique and more one-punch power than Dempsey ever had. Dempsey was not a smart guy - he chewed pine tar to strengthen his jaw for fucks sake. He was borderline retarded.
Second all of that..Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerGreb beat him once and was robbed at least once, the consensus was he got robbed in at least one of Tunney's wins. Harry Greb was 5'8'' and weighed 168 without cutting weight. Andre is 6'0'' and probably walks around 180-190, so he was about the same size as Tunney. Of course this is as hypothetical as a match gets, because they fought almost 100 years apart and as we know Tunney refused to fight blacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Kovalev has much better technique and more one-punch power than Dempsey ever had. Dempsey was not a smart guy - he chewed pine tar to strengthen his jaw for fucks sake. He was borderline retarded.
Especially "Dempsey was not a smart guy - he chewed pine tar to strengthen his jaw for fucks sake. He was borderline retarded"
LOL You can't buy quotes that good! ;D
Have you heard some of your quotes? ;D
Has anybody noticed that James Toney- a 5'10" guy that started his career at 154- held his own at HW? And he didn't even bother to be in shape? For most of his fights at that weight he weighed over 220, couldn't see his own feet. Yet Emmanuel Steward said that he wouldn't let WK fight him.
Toney was taught old school- you know, 'primitive'- skills by Bill Miller, a very old school guy. And he got by on that. And he was mid to late 30s when he started fighting at that weight.
Yeah occasionally I can dish out the odd bashing of a boxer that would no doubt kick my own ass LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
But we're all guilty of that sometimes aren't we @Master ;)
What do you mean Toney was taught "Old School"? Toney is a modern boxer. By that measure he was trained BY a modern trainer.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
When you look at Freddie Roach and Emanuel Steward, you see Old School right? WRONG! These guys WERE/ARE modern coaches dummy! They're the trainers of the current fighters!
Was Freddie Roach one of the great coaches of the 70's, 60's or 50's? Of course not!
Anyway, nobody is denying Toney is a great boxer. In fact, the better ones SKILLS are, the less they NEED to be in shape! If you have great skills AND are in shape, bonus! At HW there is nothing wrong with being fat and never has been.
What Toney stacked on is a tonne of weight, in the form of muscle AND fat (and a little steroid). Affording him the extra power, strength, chin and resistance to compete at HW.
Toney carried his chin up to HW well (helped no doubt by the chub). He was not a real big hitter, as many sub HW's turn featherfisted when they move up to HW.
Basically Toney's best claim to fame at HW was surviving Peter & Rahman and outboxing Holyfield (another former sub HW).
His chances vs Klitschko are about 1 billion to 1!
Do not call greynotsoold a dummy you daft cunt.
Emanuel Steward had links to Eddie Futch and so did Freddie Roach that is old school.