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This is a bullshit issue. You can take down the flag tomorrow but people will still be poor. Bankers will still be stealing money from the poor working class. So the media instead of talking about these problems. Are saying hey look over here see this flag. We fall for this bullshit every fucking time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
But....but....
A couple of posts previously you were claiming :
January 1, 1863 the Emancipation freed 100% of the slaves in Confederate states, in 1864 Confederate states themselves were abandoning slavery.....in 1865 the Union banned slavery.
And I'm saying that wasn't the case. So again you're making my argument for me. Well done Woti.
Anybody who still thinks the Confederate states didn't start the civil war over slavery :
The Confederate Cause in the Words of Its Leaders - The Atlantic
And anybody who thinks white supremacy ended in the south in 1865 or that discrimination against black people ended in America even by 1965 read this, even if you just read the first bit about Clyde Ross.
The Case for Reparations - The Atlantic
The war lasted until 1865 begging the question: If the slaves were already free in the South then why keep fighting???
Also the overwhelming majority of Confederacy did NOT own slaves....so what were THOSE people fighting for?
....oh and don't bother responding I'll NOT debate the War Between The States with a fucking fool such as yourself, CUNT!
Imagine if we they had a Civil War rematch, the South would win 1st round knockout. The North has gotten soft with their restrictive gun laws!
There were still slaves in the Confederate states until 1865.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Ans while the majority of people fighting for the Confederate cause didn't own slaves themselves slaves were the main engine of the southern economy. It's like a coal mine in Kentucky or a military base in some town. All the businesses around the mine/base make their money from the people working at the mine/base. Close the mine and the local economy collapses. End slavery and the southern economy collapses, as the Confederate states themselves admitted in their declarations of secession.
All those people were fighting for their livelihoods Lyle. When they lost the war their economy did collapse and it still hasn't recovered.
A major finding of the research into the economic dynamics of the slave system was to demonstrate that the rise in the value of slaves was not based upon unfounded speculation. Slave labor was the foundation of a prosperous economic system in the South. To illustrate just how important slaves were to that prosperity, Gerald Gunderson (1974) estimated what fraction of the income of a white person living in the South of 1860 was derived from the earnings of slaves. Table 1 presents Gunderson’s estimates. In the seven states where most of the cotton was grown, almost one-half the population were slaves, and they accounted for 31 percent of white people’s income; for all 11 Confederate States, slaves represented 38 percent of the population and contributed 23 percent of whites’ income. Small wonder that Southerners — even those who did not own slaves — viewed any attempt by the federal government to limit the rights of slaveowners over their property as a potentially catastrophic threat to their entire economic system. By itself, the South’s economic investment in slavery could easily explain the willingness of Southerners to risk war when faced with what they viewed as a serious threat to their “peculiar institution” after the electoral victories of the Republican Party and President Abraham Lincoln the fall of 1860.
https://eh.net/encyclopedia/the-econ...the-civil-war/
Just to add some petrol to the fire .....
'Islamic State cake' prompts apology from Walmart - BBC News
Everyone knows the confederates were led by vampires and Lincoln was the hero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by X
I think this particular fire is already pretty hot.
Klan plans Confederate flag rally in South Carolina
Copying from an online source Kirkland? I'm sorry, that's not allowed......just holding you to your own asinine standard jackass.
Yes! And finally Magic Johnson freed the slaves by beating Larry Bird in a 1v1!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
MSNBC asked this question of everyone on Facebook (and I quote) "Should the KKK have the right to free speech?"Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by X
I think this particular fire is already pretty hot.
Klan plans Confederate flag rally in South Carolina
Fuck the white sheet wearing bastards and everything they believe in, but anytime, I mean ANY time someone says "Should they have the right to free speech?" that question should be answered in the affirmative regardless of how vile and/or idiotic the group or individual may be. Westboro Baptist Church, they can speak freely too, the crazy ass Code Pink people, they speak freely too.....our Founding Fathers had this thought about the free exchange of ideas, open debates, and ....allowing people to freely out themselves as idiots as many idiots are want to do anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusInteresting Slim, I don't agree with everything you said, especially denigrating or dismissing a religious for such an issue but you look at things from an angle I can't see, just as you can't see my white angst.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeOnce again the powers that be have Succeeded.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreInteresting read, cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
No talk about people who died in a church. Fewer words from millionaire televangelists.
One would think this event would have overwhelmingly shown white and black and all churches uniting in the name of God. They haven't, so the powers that be slipped on in...by injecting the confederate flag.
Look at what it's done.....ignore the pain and suffering of black Christians murdered in what they thought was the house of the Lord..then Wonder why strong black men like me don't Give a godamn about Christianity.
There would be NO talk of a confederate flag if Christians Of America stood together.
I denigrated the religion of Christianity with words-based on the shallow-hallow response from Christians as it regards to the killing of Christians (9) to be exact.
I did not denigrate Christianity with actions like those of Dylann Roof a white guy who shot up a Christian church. And that doesn't irk you? Hurt you? Cause you to feel that he denigrated Christianity, yet I have?
I used words saying God... please Damn those Christians who wont stand up (God damn). Over actions of a man who damned people to the grave? In Hebrew it is called Sheol, correct?- the American rendering for that is hell. He sent your Christian brethren to hell..the grave - And you are so okay with that, you wouldn't write here- that he denigrated your faith? Or...are those 9 murdered Christians not your brethren & sisters?
Why should I respect a religion that will only stand up for Christians when its mulsims attacking, or when its liberals telling them ,they don't want their weak prayers in a public school?
If it were a Muslim who shot up a Christian church would U be silent? Or would U call it an act of terror?
Based on Roof's words is this not an act of racism? In the house of the lord at that?
The KKK is praising this act...in a (CHRISTIAN CHURCH). The group’s leader, Robert Jones, expressed support for Mr. Roof who stated: you’ve raped our women, and you are taking over the country … I have to do what I have to do. then he proceeded to shoot more women than men.
Would U like the link? I can send it. Or how about the Aryan Nation's leader Morris Gulett offered praise and urged others to follow Roof’s example.
And the dude didn't even have the confederate flag, he had the apartheid flag, so I am straight tripping at when, where and HOW did the confederate flag become a conversational piece in the last two weeks.
I am curious, although you already addressed it in a way, your view on the battles.
Do you mean the Un-civil war, revised to be called a civil war? If, so, my views are aligned with former Congressman Ron Paul from Texas. He rips the hell outta Lincoln for waging a war on behalf of (saving the union).
A war that
1. Industrialized the nation by taking land, resources from the many and giving to the few (Rockefeller, Carnegie) to name a few.. The railroads, to utilities..
2. Pitted freed states against enslaved states that didn't go down like that in other slave holding countries-when it came time freedom- they ended it- with finances offered- -The USA went to war over it. Serious what God backs a nation like that?
3. Allowed the bank charters that Andrew Jackson fought to end- to slowly creep back in.
As I quote Lincoln who stated :
"If I could save the union by keeping slavery alive, I will. And if I can save the union by emancipating the slaves I will."
I for one am grateful we don't live under it and it's principles but I look at it a a historic part of American history. Perhaps it does deserve to be relegated to museum collection, I'd just like to see the state's decide that, not media attention. Anyway, can you see it as a historical flag of the country or do you find it offensive, just curious I like to hear differing opinions.
The Confederate flag? To me it represents what the keepers of that flag want it to represent. If it is called "their" heritage NP. then define it -don't just say it represents our heritage , then walk away.
What does this heritage consist of?
Until it is explained many minorities see it as:
A heritage of white superiority, over minorities.
A heritage that deduced Blacks, Native Americans to Mexicans in a class denied education, land, justice under the law . In fact under that law- whites could enforce the "eyeball" law. Boy...u eye balling that white woman?:mad:
What a gr8 flag for whites. But how is it gr8 for nonwhites? If so, teach me. If not then how does that flag represent anything other than white justice?
No argument here. I would not want to be living under it and I'm glad the stars and bars won out. I just look at it as a part of a history of a tragic war we once had.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeQuote:
Originally Posted by walrusInteresting Slim, I don't agree with everything you said, especially denigrating or dismissing a religious for such an issue but you look at things from an angle I can't see, just as you can't see my white angst.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeOnce again the powers that be have Succeeded.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreInteresting read, cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
No talk about people who died in a church. Fewer words from millionaire televangelists.
One would think this event would have overwhelmingly shown white and black and all churches uniting in the name of God. They haven't, so the powers that be slipped on in...by injecting the confederate flag.
Look at what it's done.....ignore the pain and suffering of black Christians murdered in what they thought was the house of the Lord..then Wonder why strong black men like me don't Give a godamn about Christianity.
There would be NO talk of a confederate flag if Christians Of America stood together.
I denigrated the religion of Christianity with words-based on the shallow-hallow response from Christians as it regards to the killing of Christians (9) to be exact.
I did not denigrate Christianity with actions like those of Dylann Roof a white guy who shot up a Christian church. And that doesn't irk you? Hurt you? Cause you to feel that he denigrated Christianity, yet I have?
I used words saying God... please Damn those Christians who wont stand up (God damn). Over actions of a man who damned people to the grave? In Hebrew it is called Sheol, correct?- the American rendering for that is hell. He sent your Christian brethren to hell..the grave - And you are so okay with that, you wouldn't write here- that he denigrated your faith? Or...are those 9 murdered Christians not your brethren & sisters?
Why should I respect a religion that will only stand up for Christians when its mulsims attacking, or when its liberals telling them ,they don't want their weak prayers in a public school?
If it were a Muslim who shot up a Christian church would U be silent? Or would U call it an act of terror?
Based on Roof's words are is this not an act of racism? In the house of the lord at that?
The KKK is praising this act...in a (CHRISTIAN CHURCH). The group’s leader, Robert Jones, expressed support for Mr. Roof who stated: you’ve raped our women, and you are taking over the country … I have to do what I have to do. then he proceeded to shoot more women than men.
Would U like the link? I can send it. Or how about the Aryan Nation's leader Morris Gulett offered praise and urged others to follow Roof’s example.
And the dude didn't even have the confederate flag, he had the apartheid flag, so I am straight tripping at when, where and HOW did the confederate flag become a conversational piece in the last two weeks.
I am curious, although you already addressed it in a way, your view on the battles.
Do you mean the Un-civil war, revised to be called a civil war? If, so, my views are aligned with former Congressman Ron Paul from Texas. He rips the hell outta Lincoln for waging a war on behalf of (saving the union).
A war that
1. Industrialized the nation by taking land, resources from the many and giving to the few (Rockefeller, Carnegie) to name a few.. The railroads, to utilities..
2. Pitted freed states against enslaved states that didn't go down like that in other slave holding countries-when it came time freedom
3. Allowed the bank charters that Andrew Jackson fought to end- to slowly creep back in.
As I quote Lincoln who stated :
"If I could save the union by keeping slavery alive, I will. And if I can save the union by emancipating the slaves I will."
I for one am grateful we don't live under it and it's principles but I look at it a a historic part of American history. Perhaps it does deserve to be relegated to museum collection, I'd just like to see the state's decide that, not media attention. Anyway, can you see it as a historical flag of the country or do you find it offensive, just curious I like to hear differing opinions.
The Confederate flag? To me it represents what the keepers of that flag want it to represent. If it is called "their" heritage NP. then define it -don't just say it represents our heritage , then walk away.
What does this heritage consist of?
Until it is explained many minorities see it as:
A heritage of white superiority, over minorities.
A heritage that deduced Blacks, Native Americans to Mexicans in a class denied education, land, justice under the law . In fact under that law- whites could enforce the "eyeball" law. Boy...u eye balling that white woman?:mad:
What a gr8 flag for whites. But how is it gr8 for nonwhites? If so, teach me. If not then how does that flag represent anything other than white justice?
States Rights to peacefully secede. The 10th albeit all too forgotten Amendment. The men who fought for their homes and families not all of whom were slave owners and not all of whom were white.
The flag shouldn't be on the South Carolina state capitol grounds as it was put there in opposition to desegregation....but not selling the flag at Gettysburg or Antietam or other battlegrounds that's a horrible historical precedent to set.
Not everyone sees the flag as offensive, now the question is how many have to deem something offensive before it's removed?