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Heavyweight James "Quick" Tillis on Earnie Shavers: "MAN, EARNIE SHAVERS HIT SO HARD HE TURNS GOAT PISS INTO GASOLINE!"
But NO, James Tillis doesnt know what he's talking about, does he @Max Power :vd:
@Dark Lord Al this was too good it needed to be up there among the best quotes on Shavers.
Obviously he warrants such discussion that it is getting continually difficult to wade threads about him in search of threads about obviously lesser contemporary boxers...
How about a Shavers sub-forum so we don't have to wade through the irrelevancy? :rolleyes:
Don't know which mod merged all of this spam, but thanks!
Wednesday ~ March 3, 1971
Silver Slipper ~ Las Vegas, Nevada
Earnie 'The Razor' Shavers ~ 21-2-0 {21 KO's} ~ 205 lbs.
vs.
Steve 'Iceman' Carter ~ 14-2-0 {7 KO's} ~ 199 lbs.
Earnie Shavers {Warren, Ohio} to battle with fast-handed Steve Carter of
Oakland, California.
The 22 year-old California Heavyweight has 'never' been floored, and brings
in very good boxing skills {hand-speed and footwork}, to go along with an
accurate left-jab and right-cross.
'The Iceman' is trained by Dick Saddler, and is a stable-mate of George Foreman.
Steve is also known as a 'chatter-box', and likes to shout at his opponents.
For Earnie, this will be his 3rd-Bout here at the Silver Slipper in Las Vegas.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'The Bout'
Both fighters meet at Center-Ring, and immediately trade blows. 'The Iceman' lands
'2' fast 'left-right-left' combinations, and ducks under Earnie's bombs.
Both trade again, and Earnie lands a long right-hand to Carter's head. The punch
stuns Carter, who immediately backs away. Earnie fires in a wide left-hook that
grazes Steves chin.
Earnie steps in to follow up, but Steve {who is hurt} immediately takes a knee at
the {0:35 Mark}.
Steve is up at the '3-Count', and is ready to continue. Earnie moves in, as Steve backs
away at high-speed.
Earnie stalks, and quickly traps Steve along the left-side Ropes. There, Earnie tee's off
with a barrage, and then lands a 'right-left-right' to the body.
Steve again drops to his right-knee, and takes an '8-Count' at the {1:17 Mark}.
The action resumes at the {1:28 Mark}.
Steve is back on his bicycle as Earnie charges. Earnie is winging bombs from long-range
as Steve is in 'survival-mode' as he moves along the perimeter of the Ring.
Earnie finally catches Steve with a looping right-hand at the {2:01 Mark}, and Steve tries to
counter with weak 'left-right' combinations. Earnie walks thru the punches, and slams Steve
with a jolting straight-hand to the head.
Steve goes down at the {2:11 Mark}.
Referee - Davey Pearl calls the bout over by TKO as the '3-Knockdown Rule' is in effect.
@Bill Paxtom (and all the other Shavers fans)
We don't need a new thread to discuss every aspect of Earnie Shavers life. For now, keep the Shavers stuff in this thread otherwise I'll start deleting instead of merging. Thanks.
When did Earnie Shavers 'first' get Ranked as a Top 10 Heavyweight ?
After he smoked "Irish" Pat Duncan. IMO who was ahead of him? Frazier, Foreman, Ali, Norton, Quarry,.........Bugner?........Patterson?......... ..Chuvalo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Earnie Shavers
Was 'not' Ranked in the Top 10 when he walked into the Ring versus
#5 Ranked - Jimmy Ellis in June 1973 at Madison Sqare Garden.
He was ranked as the #14 Heavyweight.
Earnie {Age; 27 years, 10 months} had a record of 44-2-0 {43 KO's}.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Angelo Dundee
"I know Earnie can punch, but just who has he knocked out. Just a bunch of
his 'cousins' from Ohio."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerI do understand poker. That is why it's ironic for me that you cannot see it's these fighters who are keeping the poker face here.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Fighters talk smack all the time. And the BEST smack talk comes when they are self-glorifying their own wins.
Everybody knows now and knew then that Shavers was a total bum. Except some guys struggled and lost to this bum. None of them are going to claim they struggled with a bum.
OBVIOUSLY they are going to want to pump up their Shavers win because it does justice for their resume. Especially if they all band together on it cause they all fought him.
The problem is, the comments these guys made flies totally in the face of all the evidence.
Cobb was wasted by a guy I never heard of and was never any good anyway.
Holmes was wasted by Tyson so dramatically he probably doesn't even REMEMBER the punch! Yet got up from Shavers to win and even claims to REMEMBER the punch.
Ali also claimed featherfist Karl Mildenberger hit him hardest! And was never even DROPPED by Shavers but was dropped often by many other boxers!
How can Ken Norton's word mean anything when he layed crumpled on the canvas left right and centre by various opponents. He would barely remember what day of the week it was each time!
And on and on!
All of these guys (bar Norton) BEAT Shavers, but suffered stoppages and KO's to other fighters.
They are OBVIOUSLY and BLATANTLY lying, heresay and self-swaggery is exactly what it is!
These kinds of comments are utterly worthless and should play absolutely zero role in Shaver's power assessment.
If you cannot see this, your analytical skills suck!
Wow! So on top of being a boxing expert..... you're a psychology major as well.
Well done! You've uncovered a massive conspiracy between several different fighters to take feather-fisted Shavers and pump him up into a brutal puncher...... all to further their weak and otherwise worthless resumes. Brilliant!
Give yourself a pat on the back.
:rolleyes:
good one. he is certainly demented.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerI do understand poker. That is why it's ironic for me that you cannot see it's these fighters who are keeping the poker face here.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Fighters talk smack all the time. And the BEST smack talk comes when they are self-glorifying their own wins.
Everybody knows now and knew then that Shavers was a total bum. Except some guys struggled and lost to this bum. None of them are going to claim they struggled with a bum.
OBVIOUSLY they are going to want to pump up their Shavers win because it does justice for their resume. Especially if they all band together on it cause they all fought him.
The problem is, the comments these guys made flies totally in the face of all the evidence.
Cobb was wasted by a guy I never heard of and was never any good anyway.
Holmes was wasted by Tyson so dramatically he probably doesn't even REMEMBER the punch! Yet got up from Shavers to win and even claims to REMEMBER the punch.
Ali also claimed featherfist Karl Mildenberger hit him hardest! And was never even DROPPED by Shavers but was dropped often by many other boxers!
How can Ken Norton's word mean anything when he layed crumpled on the canvas left right and centre by various opponents. He would barely remember what day of the week it was each time!
And on and on!
All of these guys (bar Norton) BEAT Shavers, but suffered stoppages and KO's to other fighters.
They are OBVIOUSLY and BLATANTLY lying, heresay and self-swaggery is exactly what it is!
These kinds of comments are utterly worthless and should play absolutely zero role in Shaver's power assessment.
If you cannot see this, your analytical skills suck!
Wow! So on top of being a boxing expert..... you're a psychology major as well.
Well done! You've uncovered a massive conspiracy between several different fighters to take feather-fisted Shavers and pump him up into a brutal puncher...... all to further their weak and otherwise worthless resumes. Brilliant!
Give yourself a pat on the back.
:rolleyes:
Let's just all do a deal and never speak about Shavers again! He was the flavour of last week now! It's a new year!Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustDAMN RIGHT. TILLIS IS RIGHT ON TARGET THERE. THAT IS FUNNY AS SHIT. LOVE IT !!!! LMFAO :happy0931sb4::lol::lolololol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
I don't care for this cheek! LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I didn't claim Shaver's was a featherfist! He was OBVIOUSLY a puncher, it's all he had going for him.
He was just obviously NOT the hardest puncher Ali faced- Foreman was clearly and obviously the hardest puncher Holmes faced, Tyson was clearly, beyond any doubt.
And Shavers was a total bum.
And yes these fighters ARE covering the asses by making such claims.
These are the facts, I didn't make history, I'm just saying it how it is! If you got a different opinion, good on ya!
I just think he is pathetic and unwatchable.
maxpower is so young he thinks Foreman fought Holmes!!!! :rocks::shocking::shocking::rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerI don't care for this cheek! LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I didn't claim Shaver's was a featherfist! He was OBVIOUSLY a puncher, it's all he had going for him.
He was just obviously NOT the hardest puncher Ali faced- Foreman was clearly and obviously NOT the hardest puncher Holmes faced, Tyson was clearly, beyond any doubt.
And Shavers was a total bum.
And yes these fighters ARE covering the asses by making such claims.
These are the facts, I didn't make history, I'm just saying it how it is! If you got a different opinion, good on ya!
I just think he is pathetic and unwatchable.
Nah I just worded it very badly. I'll try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustmaxpower is so young he thinks Foreman fought Holmes!!!! :rocks::shocking::shocking::rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerI don't care for this cheek! LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I didn't claim Shaver's was a featherfist! He was OBVIOUSLY a puncher, it's all he had going for him.
He was just obviously NOT the hardest puncher Ali faced- Foreman was clearly and obviously NOT the hardest puncher Holmes faced, Tyson was clearly, beyond any doubt.
And Shavers was a total bum.
And yes these fighters ARE covering the asses by making such claims.
These are the facts, I didn't make history, I'm just saying it how it is! If you got a different opinion, good on ya!
I just think he is pathetic and unwatchable.
Foreman was CLEARLY the hardest puncher Ali faced
Tyson was CLEARLY the hardest puncher Holmes faced
That's what I was getting at.
Foreman hospitalised Ali, Shavers couldn't even deck the guy with his best Sunday punch landing flush and the Louisville Lip was running his mouth as usual after the fight.
Tyson dealt Holmes the only canvas KO of his career with such sickening devastation Larry did not even know what day of the fucking week it was. Yet after getting floored by Shavers he was up on his feet in no time resuming an otherwise dominant performance.
I can see a pattern here! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgjbXCVNpl4
2 Overrated fighters in an overrated fight.
I am sorry but this fight encapsulates everything that is wrong with the golden era cult.
WHERE are these brutal mega-punches that are apparently the hardest thrown at Ali?
Farcial decision! Muhammad Ali, who was never in the fight except for the last 30seconds! Who until then over most of the previous 14 and 3 qtr rounds was getting pasted left right and centre and failed to land ANY effective punches whatsoever!
What is this slippy slap shit that he tries to pepper Shavers with at times like a child fighting in a school yard?
Both boxers displayed a total lack of any appreciable skills whatsoever and a lack of any kind of serious power in my opinion.
I scored it for Shavers, as was the feeling by most observers you can ascertain from the end. Even Ali HIMSELF looked stunned at the result.. Robbed the fight from a bum in the last 30 seconds. Pathetic!
I put myself with a new year hangover through this shit to TRY and find something good about these guys and what do I see? A bum fight! Nothing more!
Ali and Shavers are not fit for Tuesday night fights judging from THIS performance!
I am certain even I could wear Ali's shots they look and sound so weak.
And the reflexes and speed of both fighters are REAL astonishing NOT! LOL Rarely seen such blatant punch baggery.
The best fighters in the best time.
Today the heavyweight division is a joke.
Happy New year 2015.
Shavers landed bomb after bomb. Hardest shots I ever saw or heard.
I'd take this guy I think,
He had a 17” neck, 15” biceps, a 42 ½” inch chest and a 73” reach
He had huge shoulders and massive back muscles. He was known for his quick hands, debilitating left jab, crushing hook, powerful right cross, smashing uppercut and devastating body punches. He was equally adept at punching from long range or short punches at close range. When he had his opponent hurt he was a deadly finisher.
He was master at the art of feinting.
He was also an outstanding defensive fighter. A master at blocking an opponents leads with an open glove with the rear hand in proper position, a master glove blocker and counter puncher as well as a fighter who would duck and counter putting his whole body into his blows. He had the perfect balance, timing and leverage of a great puncher.
Mike Silver stated ;Quote:
Quite possibly the greatest fighter who ever lived, Langford mastered every punch. His short hook on the inside and his right cross and uppercut were particularly deadly. His punishing jab was also one of the best. He was a strategist who knew how to maneuver, with the ability to explode out of an offensive or defensive position. He could instantly stop when retreating, revert to the offensive, and in the blink of an eye render an opponent unconscious with trip-hammer blows thrown in four and five punch combinations. Langford's every move embodied the technique of a studied master boxer. During his prime he was rarely outfought, out-thought, or out-punched.
William Detloff wrote,Ring founder Nat Fleischer reported:Quote:
he wasn't simply an all out slugger. He was smart and crafty and knew how to out-think guys in the ring. He could fight inside or outside and was impossibly strong. He was decades ahead of his time.
Norman Clark who saw him fight on his tour of England wrote,All in the Game 1935 said;Quote:
He was as quick and slippery as an eel in action, highly intelligent and made up of surprising dodges from head to heels. Sam used his bulky shoulders and clever blocking arms to avoid blows and his potent punching power stayed with him until the end of his career.
R. Stockton stated,Quote:
For working up speed he had Jimmy Walsh, the bantamweight champion of the world, with him. The pair used to box together lightly, but at a great pace, and I was surprised to find that even in this sort of work Sam was every bit as fast and clever as Walsh himself.
Quote:
He had all the attributes of a great fighter, speed, punching power, an amazingly elusive defense, the ability to absorb punishment, and unlimited endurance.
Al Laney wrote,Harry Wills described in the February 1953 Boxing and Wrestling Magazine what his knockout losses to him were like. Wills said he was hit so hard each time that he doesn’t remember being knocked out!Quote:
This is the man competent critics said was the greatest fighter in ring history, the man the champions feared and would not fight, the man who was so good he was never given a chance to show how good he really was.
Jack Dempsey just like Johnson wanted nothing to do with him and in his autobiographyQuote:
I was knocked out three times in my career, twice by him and in my last fight by Paulino Uzcudun. I still don't know, except from hearsay, what punches he used to knock me out. The first time it happened was 1914. We were supposed to go twenty rounds, when the fourteenth began I was going easy. He was in a bad way. I backed him around the ring trying to set him up for a one punch finish. His eye was bleeding and the last thing I remember was having him against the ropes just about five feet from his corner. It must have happened right then.
he admitted it saying,Johnson did fight him once but he was a 20 year old and a lightweight at the time and the 28 year old Johnson outweighed him by 50 pounds and Johnson even in his win mew he was lucky that he got to the kid when he did. He would say later,Quote:
The Hell I feared no man. There was one man, he was even smaller than I, and I wouldn’t fight because I knew he would flatten me. I was afraid of him
Jim Flynn, said of his punching power:Quote:
I don’t want to fight that little smoke,” said Johnson. “He’s got a chance to win against anyone in the world. I’m the first black champion and I’m going to be the last.
In the end the official record has him at over 300 fights but the real tally is most likely much more then that. He knocked out virtually every top heavyweight he faced with most of them being men who were also ducked by the likes of Johnson and Dempsey. With 140 ko's on his official record, he blasts out the records of guys like Tyson and Foreman combined or any other heavyweight duo.Quote:
I fought most of the heavyweights, including [Jack] Dempsey and [Jack] Johnson, but he could strength a guy colder than any of them. When he hit me it felt like someone slugged me with a baseball bat
A few months before his death, he said,Quote:
“Don’t nobody need to feel sorry for old Sam. I had plenty of good times. I been all over the world. I fought maybe 600 fights, and every one was a pleasure!”
Given his size in comparison to all others, in my mind he's the biggest puncher in heavyweight history.
He had to have been given the disparities. He fought for 24 years until he was pulled out of the ring when totally blind and never got a title shot other then Gans and Walcott at lower weights. By all accounts he beat Barbadoes Joe and beat Gans for his first loss in ten tears but was 2 pounds over on fight night so never got the title.
I hope we get a lot of Shavers threads this year
@IamInuit
As if considering Shavers the hardest puncher was not enough for you, you had to go a step further didn't you.
You had to drag up a guy from 100 years ago, who has stylistically nothing in common with even the 70's boxers let alone the current ones.
Who was never a HW as we define them today anyhow.
Unbelievable!
Shavers landed bomb after bomb on a completely reflexless opponent, gee that was hard. Muhammad Ali is about as defensive as the average heavy bag.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
These punches looked no harder than anybody elses of similar calibre to Shavers if you ask me. They quite obviously sucked because he landed them flush and clean and till couldn't knock Ali down.
I'm onto it now, Shavers MUST be promo'd as the penultimate puncher because it's part of the basis of Mauhammad having an "IRON CHIN".
I mean how else could Ali have survived the awesome power of Shavers right? LOL
Take Shavers out of that pathetic fight, insert Samuel PEter instead, and Muhammad Zero gets KTFO of the ring in that 2nd round where he got tagged flush every few seconds.
If Foreman and Shavers are not knocking Ali out then your fat African friend, who knocked down your lover wlad numerous times, is not going to either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Get real in 2015 will you.
Oh so a bummy boxer like Shavers who is less skilled, strong, powerful and even slower than Shaver couldn't land the same punches as Shaver did in that exact same fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterIf Foreman and Shavers are not knocking Ali out then your fat African friend, who knocked down your lover wlad numerous times, is not going to either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Get real in 2015 will you.
OR
Muhammad Ali's chin is so strong that he could survive Peter's shots too?
What if I told you that Peter hits FAR harder than Foreman and Shavers did? What if I told you there was no way known that Muihammad could survive a Peter punch.
What if I told you the Muhammad chin was overrated? He was badly hurt vs Cooper, by how much could his chin harden from the 60's to 70's really? His weight was not FAR heftier. He did not even wear the Foreman punch properly on his head, only in the body, for which he needed a lengthy stay in hospital.
Maybe Shaver didn't hit as hard as you think he did. I just posted the video of their fight, I seen no punches nearly as hard as Peter's were.
Seriously, if you really think Muhammad could withstand Peter's shots you are disgraceful overestimating the man.
Ali took harder punches from greater fighters. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerOh so a bummy boxer like Shavers who is less skilled, strong, powerful and even slower than Shaver couldn't land the same punches as Shaver did in that exact same fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterIf Foreman and Shavers are not knocking Ali out then your fat African friend, who knocked down your lover wlad numerous times, is not going to either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Get real in 2015 will you.
OR
Muhammad Ali's chin is so strong that he could survive Peter's shots too?
What if I told you that Peter hits FAR harder than Foreman and Shavers did? What if I told you there was no way known that Muihammad could survive a Peter punch.
What if I told you the Muhammad chin was overrated? He was badly hurt vs Cooper, by how much could his chin harden from the 60's to 70's really? His weight was not FAR heftier. He did not even wear the Foreman punch properly on his head, only in the body, for which he needed a lengthy stay in hospital.
Maybe Shaver didn't hit as hard as you think he did. I just posted the video of their fight, I seen no punches nearly as hard as Peter's were.
Seriously, if you really think Muhammad could withstand Peter's shots you are disgraceful overestimating the man.
Do not try to make out Peters is some super strong heavyweight. He was embarrassed by Vitali who was out of the fighting game for years. He lost every single round and quit.
News flash for you, Peter is a harder puncher than any of the guys Muhammad fought and a better boxer than a lot of them too, better than bloody Shavers incidentally.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterAli took harder punches from greater fighters. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerOh so a bummy boxer like Shavers who is less skilled, strong, powerful and even slower than Shaver couldn't land the same punches as Shaver did in that exact same fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterIf Foreman and Shavers are not knocking Ali out then your fat African friend, who knocked down your lover wlad numerous times, is not going to either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Get real in 2015 will you.
OR
Muhammad Ali's chin is so strong that he could survive Peter's shots too?
What if I told you that Peter hits FAR harder than Foreman and Shavers did? What if I told you there was no way known that Muihammad could survive a Peter punch.
What if I told you the Muhammad chin was overrated? He was badly hurt vs Cooper, by how much could his chin harden from the 60's to 70's really? His weight was not FAR heftier. He did not even wear the Foreman punch properly on his head, only in the body, for which he needed a lengthy stay in hospital.
Maybe Shaver didn't hit as hard as you think he did. I just posted the video of their fight, I seen no punches nearly as hard as Peter's were.
Seriously, if you really think Muhammad could withstand Peter's shots you are disgraceful overestimating the man.
Do not try to make out Peters is some super strong heavyweight. He was embarrassed by Vitali who was out of the fighting game for years. He lost every single round and quit.
Muhammad Ali is also not Vitali Klitschko, Muhammad fights several orders of magnitude worse opposition than Vitali did and goes round after round without barely ever losing a round or even getting hit much whilst your man gets pasted by even the most terrible opponents who Vitali would never even be allowed to fight, fan would be disgraced!
Samuel Peter is a much harder puncher than even Vitali Klitschko who was never a massive hitter, he was an accumulation fighter. Vitali beat Peter easily because he was a far superior boxer with a huge range advantage and he knew how to use it.
Muhammad Ali is not Vitali Klitschko, he could not avoid a punch to save his life and had no timing or reflexes whatsoever as is CLEARLY evident in the Ali vs Shavers fight.
Try it, put up Vitali vs Peter side by side with Ali vs Shavers. Despite being visibly slower than Peter, Shavers is able to land a punch on Ali about every 5-10 seconds.
Vitali maintains a near perfect defence whilst simultaneously punching PEter's frigging lights out, where as Ali has the gravest difficulties against Shavers who spends the first part of the fight clowning around.
How dare you compare a masterpiece performance like Vitali's dismantling of Samuel to this abomination of an Ali performance against Shavers!
Unbelievable!
Earnie Shavers hit about a factor of 10 harder than Sam "Rabbit Punch" Peter.
Then why is it that he could not knock Ali out despite landing flush Sunday punches on him multiple times every round?Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
I already know the response.
Shavers has the hardest punch, Muhammad has the hardest chin right?
For ALL TIME right?
An untestable position to take, and therefore worthless.
Unbelievable that you cans can think this with the video and statistical evidence combined!
nobody ever knocked ali out.Quote:
Originally Posted by max powerthen why is it that he could not knock ali out despite landing flush sunday punches on him multiple times every round?Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
I already know the response.
Shavers has the hardest punch, muhammad has the hardest chin right?
For all time right?
An untestable position to take, and therefore worthless.
Unbelievable that you cans can think this with the video and statistical evidence combined!
And this is supposed to be interpreted that nobody ever could have right? Bloody genius.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustnobody ever knocked ali out.Quote:
Originally Posted by max powerthen why is it that he could not knock ali out despite landing flush sunday punches on him multiple times every round?Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
I already know the response.
Shavers has the hardest punch, muhammad has the hardest chin right?
For all time right?
An untestable position to take, and therefore worthless.
Unbelievable that you cans can think this with the video and statistical evidence combined!
We have seen him wasted by a 180lb bum.
He was stopped by Holmes, which is generally taken to mean he was going to be knocked out otherwise. And he never fought a hard puncher like PEter. And Foreman never landed cleanly on his head.
Max oh Max what are we to do with you?
That is the best you could come back with?
Cooper never wasted Ali, he knocked him down.
Ali could barely talk when he fought Holmes and still a peak Larry could not knock him down never mind out.
Do you really think any fighter wants to get deliberately hit on the head from the most powerful heavyweight champion ever? Of course not. :)
"I never saw a fighter punch so hard"
Tuesday ~September 19, 1972
Moonlight Gardens Ballroom ~ Canton, Ohio
Earnie Shavers ~ 40-2-0 {39 KO's} ~ 203 lbs.
vs.
AJ Staples ~ 17-6-0 {15 KO's} ~ 187 lbs.
Earnie was scheduled to face Heavyweight - Frankie Evans of Port Arthur, Texas.
But Frankie bruised his ribs in training, and had to pull out.
Enter >
AJ Staples, a 27 year-old - 6' 1" southpaw from St. Louis, Missouri. Staples a slick-boxer
from St. Louis was riding a '6-Bout' {all by KO} winning streak since September 1971,
and AJ felt 'no fear' in facing off against Earnie Shavers.
AJ Staples >
"I'm not worried about Earnie's power. He has no stamina, and will be out of gas
by the end of the 2nd-Round."
"I'll just box and move, and wait a few Rounds. And I can hit hard pretty good
myself, and if Earnie's not careful I'll take him out quick."
Alright then Master, fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Let's try something a little different then.
What about Alexander Povetkin then? This guy was never even knocked DOWN in over 300 fights ammy+pro combined let alone out, until he fought Wladimir Klitschko which he survived but suffered the first KD's of his career.
Does that mean that Alexander Povetkin could never be knocked out if he were to fight in the Golden Era? In in fact DO think Alexander wouldn't be KOed in it but can you see it's the same logic applied?
As can be done for Vitali Klitschko who was never even KD! So basically based on that I would claim Vitali would be indestructible in the 70's right?
There IS a way to show the difference in power and chin indirectly across the eras to know that MY set of boxers (Vitali, Alexander, Samuel, Wlad etc) hit harder and are tougher than your set (Foreman, Shavers, Ali, Cooper etc).
You can see that the AVERAGE WEIGHT of all of the modern opponents fought, KOed and KOed by, won and lost against are much higher for the modern boxers AND they generally have better records against them as well.
This weight generally confers more crude punching power and more punch resistance. Especially when we are talking generally over an entire eras worth or an entire boxers worth of opponents it is highly representative and especially when we are talking about an average of 35lb the difference in weight!
I don't think Muhammad Ali could take a good punch in this era and I think the evidence is pretty compelling but you go ahead and believe in your indestructible mandible of Ali and your super punching Shaver and Foreman if you like.
Ali was an alien. So was Holmes. So was Tyson. So was Foreman. BEST 4 CHINS OF ALL TIME.
FACT.
So they were all aliens, but suddenly the aliens departed leaving us with only mortal chins like Wach, Stiverne, Povetkin, Pulev and Vitali and Peter etc. Ok, sure. THAT'S a sensible opinion :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Muhammad Ali was knocked down by a 180lber among many other featherfists and the fight had to be stopped against Holmes to save his ass.
Holmes was knocked down sometimes and catastrophically KOed against Tyson.
Tyson was KO'ed several times, including once by a cruiser featherfist and once by a bummy featherfist (bless his big heart).
Foreman was KOed, dropped and wobbled by 3 featherfists respectively (Ali, Young and Moorer).
Now I KNOW these guys are hard chinned. Nobody is claiming they were glass jaws. But I fail to see how they can be claimed to be harder than these...
Marius Wach- Never knocked down ever in any boxing match. After the WK fight he earned the nickname "hardest chin on the planet"
Ross Puritty- Another candidate for "hardest chin on Earth", faced a who's who list of superheavyweight punchers in an extensive career and lost a tonne of his fights but was never stopped bar or even dropped barring one occasion where he was dropped and waved out on his feet in his 2nd fight.
Alexander Povetkin- Never been dropped let alone stopped in 300 fights pro+ammy combined until Wlad dropped him but didn't stop him.
Marion Wilson- Possibly the hardest chin that has and will ever exist for a long time to come, LOST almost ALL of his fights! And was never knocked down or out. Suffering a single stoppage on cuts alone.
Vitali Klitschko- Never knocked off his feet ever in any boxing match.
Oliver McCall- Only 1 technical KO in over 70 fights!
Evander Holyfield- Only 2 stoppages in 50 odd fights
These guys fought in eras of "Superheavyweight punchers" exclusively.
Ali fought his entire career in the cruiser featherfist era and Foreman and Holmes fought half their careers in it. Tyson did not display the same chin as the above guys.
Chin is relative to your own weight/build and the weight of your competition, obviously!
Yeah and theres a lot more things to consider too, like more rounds and a lot less fucking around (less technique) the further back you go in history, thinner the gloves get too.Some modern guys wouldnt hold up, some of the leaders now would dominate.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
With less training and evasive techniques back then you'd need a solid chin or a decent reserve to last.The championship rounds as once were, have been taken away over the years from no end of rounds, to 20 rounds ,down to 15, all for fighters safety no other reason. For that alone we need to stretch our thoughts out a bit more than just straight comparisons between then and now.
Dudes are getting bigger now too, even the Asians since eating more meat are shooting out some giants of their own.
Some modern fighters who are not top skill level can still do it the old way, look at Hatton probably not what you would call a natural, he used to train for 20 rounders that won him what it did got him as a far as it could.
Then you got some lazy fighters who rely on heavy hands and a good beard, same thing in all eras.
The lines all cross in many ways it isnt clean cut.
I could see Foreman knock out Wlad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerAlright then Master, fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Let's try something a little different then.
What about Alexander Povetkin then? This guy was never even knocked DOWN in over 300 fights ammy+pro combined let alone out, until he fought Wladimir Klitschko which he survived but suffered the first KD's of his career.
Does that mean that Alexander Povetkin could never be knocked out if he were to fight in the Golden Era? In in fact DO think Alexander wouldn't be KOed in it but can you see it's the same logic applied?
As can be done for Vitali Klitschko who was never even KD! So basically based on that I would claim Vitali would be indestructible in the 70's right?
There IS a way to show the difference in power and chin indirectly across the eras to know that MY set of boxers (Vitali, Alexander, Samuel, Wlad etc) hit harder and are tougher than your set (Foreman, Shavers, Ali, Cooper etc).
You can see that the AVERAGE WEIGHT of all of the modern opponents fought, KOed and KOed by, won and lost against are much higher for the modern boxers AND they generally have better records against them as well.
This weight generally confers more crude punching power and more punch resistance. Especially when we are talking generally over an entire eras worth or an entire boxers worth of opponents it is highly representative and especially when we are talking about an average of 35lb the difference in weight!
I don't think Muhammad Ali could take a good punch in this era and I think the evidence is pretty compelling but you go ahead and believe in your indestructible mandible of Ali and your super punching Shaver and Foreman if you like.
George clubs Wlad out in 2 rounds, his usual 6 minute butchery.
Yes, I give Foreman a decent punchers chance vs Wladimir. In fact of all the golden era boxers, I give Geroge Foreman the best chance (and Larry Holmes but he was technically not part of that era).Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterI could see Foreman knock out Wlad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerAlright then Master, fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Let's try something a little different then.
What about Alexander Povetkin then? This guy was never even knocked DOWN in over 300 fights ammy+pro combined let alone out, until he fought Wladimir Klitschko which he survived but suffered the first KD's of his career.
Does that mean that Alexander Povetkin could never be knocked out if he were to fight in the Golden Era? In in fact DO think Alexander wouldn't be KOed in it but can you see it's the same logic applied?
As can be done for Vitali Klitschko who was never even KD! So basically based on that I would claim Vitali would be indestructible in the 70's right?
There IS a way to show the difference in power and chin indirectly across the eras to know that MY set of boxers (Vitali, Alexander, Samuel, Wlad etc) hit harder and are tougher than your set (Foreman, Shavers, Ali, Cooper etc).
You can see that the AVERAGE WEIGHT of all of the modern opponents fought, KOed and KOed by, won and lost against are much higher for the modern boxers AND they generally have better records against them as well.
This weight generally confers more crude punching power and more punch resistance. Especially when we are talking generally over an entire eras worth or an entire boxers worth of opponents it is highly representative and especially when we are talking about an average of 35lb the difference in weight!
I don't think Muhammad Ali could take a good punch in this era and I think the evidence is pretty compelling but you go ahead and believe in your indestructible mandible of Ali and your super punching Shaver and Foreman if you like.
But then once you observe some of Foreman's actual fights (vs Lyle in particular) where he faced an opponent with range and power SUDDENLY he was no thrashing machine like he was against other mismatched opponents.
Like Lennox Lewis said about the chances of Rahman vs Wladimir... "I think that's a FAT chance!"