God i hope Jones beats Calzaghe when they meet this year anybody who thinks a prime calzaghe would beat or could beat a prime Jones is CRAZY!!;)
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God i hope Jones beats Calzaghe when they meet this year anybody who thinks a prime calzaghe would beat or could beat a prime Jones is CRAZY!!;)
You better keep hoping and praying to god, you know Jones will need it, Ha ha ha ha;D
Almost Negged you too, but I didnt seeing your entitled to your opinion and at least your debating your way around which is cool with me, even if I disagree with you...Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I'll put more stock in RJJ beating soundly Toney and Hopkins than anyone Calzaghe ever faced.. I'm a Calzaghe fan too but its time to let it go already... Joe would be the betting Underdog against a prime Toney and Hopkins....
Toney's best wins before the Jones fight were
Merqui Sosa, good win
Iran Barkley, wiped out in a round by Benn, had five (two by ko) before facing Toney
Mike McCallum, was already beaten by journeyman sumbu kalambay
Michael Nunn, good win
Reggie Johnson, had a loss, nothing special
Tim Littles, good win
Charles Williams, had five losses one by ko
Doug De Witt, seven losses and another recycled benn opponent
Not a bad resume at all but he still couldnt put two titles together
I stopped reading when you said Sumbu Kalambay was a journeyman are you kidding me ?? he had over 60+ fights and was only ever KO'ed once by one of the hardest punches i've ever seen from Michael Nunn. And he had good wins over McCallum, Graham x2, Collins, Barkley, etc. To call Kalambay a jounreyman has just shown how limited your boxing knowledge is, he was one of the most underrated Middleweights of the 80s, and was a very skilled fighter especially his upper body movement which was superb.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
big calzaghe fan and have followed him through thick and thin.
But even i know a prime RJJ would whoop him into next week.
On his day jones jr was something real special, the closest your going to get to a complete fighter that has it all (apart from a chin as demonstrated in the johnson fight)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Ray Robinson is the most complete fighter, Roy of the last 20yrs imo.
Ray Robinson was far from a complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Ray Robinson is the most complete fighter, Roy of the last 20yrs imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyRay Robinson was far from a complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Ray Robinson is the most complete fighter, Roy of the last 20yrs imo.
What would you say Robinson lacked? and if there is a more complete packadge tell me.
I like Willie Pep but he had no power and Ali of the mid 60s at heavyweight was pretty complete.
There were a few important flaws in Robinson.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyRay Robinson was far from a complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
What would you say Robinson lacked? and if there is a more complete packadge tell me.
I like Willie Pep but he had no power and Ali of the mid 60s at heavyweight was pretty complete.
We could actually start a thread about this and we could rattle out a good debate, but I'm just about to finish work.
If you are here to ask me again tomorrow I'll explain the logic behind my statement.
As for a more complete fighter.
Off the top of my head Pernell Whittaker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyRay Robinson was far from a complete fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
What would you say Robinson lacked? and if there is a more complete packadge tell me.
I like Willie Pep but he had no power and Ali of the mid 60s at heavyweight was pretty complete.
The problem is unless your old as dirt you wouldn't have seen a prime Robinson, because there is no footage of him at Welterweight. I think these fighters had the complete package.
Salvador Sanchez
Alexis Arguello
Ricardo Lopez
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Roy Jones Jr
Pernell Whitaker
Just a quick list but i consider those fighters to have the complete package.
From what i have seen which is a slightly off peak Robinson its the best, Heart, Power, speed, Chin, Desire, Footwork.
I agree Pernell is a great fighter but he lacks power.
Fuk it i`ll start a thread.
Roy was great but he was by no means a complete fighter... He had athletisism that this sport had never seen before him..Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBQuote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
What would you say Robinson lacked? and if there is a more complete packadge tell me.
I like Willie Pep but he had no power and Ali of the mid 60s at heavyweight was pretty complete.
The problem is unless your old as dirt you wouldn't have seen a prime Robinson, because there is no footage of him at Welterweight. I think these fighters had the complete package.
Salvador Sanchez
Alexis Arguello
Ricardo Lopez
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Roy Jones Jr
Pernell Whitaker
Just a quick list but i consider those fighters to have the complete package.
Jones wasnt textbook fundamentals and technical ability with his offense or drfense.. If Roy worked on fundamentals 1st and Athletsism 2nd like Floyd does he would have never been sparked by Tarver.. It has taken Jones a few years to evolve into a better pure Boxer now that his reflexes have diminished he seems comfortable in the ring again and has 2 great fights left in him
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockRoy was great but he was by no means a complete fighter... He had athletisism that this sport had never seen before him..Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBQuote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
The problem is unless your old as dirt you wouldn't have seen a prime Robinson, because there is no footage of him at Welterweight. I think these fighters had the complete package.
Salvador Sanchez
Alexis Arguello
Ricardo Lopez
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Roy Jones Jr
Pernell Whitaker
Just a quick list but i consider those fighters to have the complete package.
Jones wasnt textbook fundamentals and technical ability with his offense or drfense.. If Roy worked on fundamentals 1st and Athletsism 2nd like Floyd does he would have never been sparked by Tarver.. It has taken Jones a few years to evolve into a better pure Boxer now that his reflexes have diminished he seems comfortable in the ring again and has 2 great fights left in him
You can also say that if Roy had been fundamentally sound eg had an effective jab it would have made him more orthadox and not the great unorthadox fighter he was.
I think you slightly misunderstood what i meant JT i meant just attribute wise he is a complete fighter like, Power, Speed, Slickness, Footwork etc. Never would i make out he is a textbook fighter because he isn't, all the time i've been boxing i've never tried anything that Jones Jr does because he is a one off and we might never see another Roy Jones Jr in our life time, but i agree Mayweather Jr is a textbook complete fighter and at Super Featherweight he had the power which made him even more dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockRoy was great but he was by no means a complete fighter... He had athletisism that this sport had never seen before him..Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBQuote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
The problem is unless your old as dirt you wouldn't have seen a prime Robinson, because there is no footage of him at Welterweight. I think these fighters had the complete package.
Salvador Sanchez
Alexis Arguello
Ricardo Lopez
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Roy Jones Jr
Pernell Whitaker
Just a quick list but i consider those fighters to have the complete package.
Jones wasnt textbook fundamentals and technical ability with his offense or drfense.. If Roy worked on fundamentals 1st and Athletsism 2nd like Floyd does he would have never been sparked by Tarver.. It has taken Jones a few years to evolve into a better pure Boxer now that his reflexes have diminished he seems comfortable in the ring again and has 2 great fights left in him