Prime Calzaghe vs Prime Jones Jr. who wins?

[JT Rock]

Ray Robinson was far from a complete fighter.

What would you say Robinson lacked? and if there is a more complete packadge tell me.

I like Willie Pep but he had no power and Ali of the mid 60s at heavyweight was pretty complete.

The problem is unless your old as dirt you wouldn't have seen a prime Robinson, because there is no footage of him at Welterweight. I think these fighters had the complete package.

Salvador Sanchez
Alexis Arguello
Ricardo Lopez
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Roy Jones Jr
Pernell Whitaker

Just a quick list but i consider those fighters to have the complete package.

Roy was great but he was by no means a complete fighter... He had athletisism that this sport had never seen before him..

Jones wasnt textbook fundamentals and technical ability with his offense or drfense.. If Roy worked on fundamentals 1st and Athletsism 2nd like Floyd does he would have never been sparked by Tarver.. It has taken Jones a few years to evolve into a better pure Boxer now that his reflexes have diminished he seems comfortable in the ring again and has 2 great fights left in him

[Markusdarkus]

What would you say Robinson lacked? and if there is a more complete packadge tell me.

I like Willie Pep but he had no power and Ali of the mid 60s at heavyweight was pretty complete.

The problem is unless your old as dirt you wouldn't have seen a prime Robinson, because there is no footage of him at Welterweight. I think these fighters had the complete package.

Salvador Sanchez
Alexis Arguello
Ricardo Lopez
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Roy Jones Jr
Pernell Whitaker

Just a quick list but i consider those fighters to have the complete package.

Roy was great but he was by no means a complete fighter... He had athletisism that this sport had never seen before him..

Jones wasnt textbook fundamentals and technical ability with his offense or drfense.. If Roy worked on fundamentals 1st and Athletsism 2nd like Floyd does he would have never been sparked by Tarver.. It has taken Jones a few years to evolve into a better pure Boxer now that his reflexes have diminished he seems comfortable in the ring again and has 2 great fights left in him

You can also say that if Roy had been fundamentally sound eg had an effective jab it would have made him more orthadox and not the great unorthadox fighter he was.

[JT Rock]

The problem is unless your old as dirt you wouldn't have seen a prime Robinson, because there is no footage of him at Welterweight. I think these fighters had the complete package.

Salvador Sanchez
Alexis Arguello
Ricardo Lopez
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Roy Jones Jr
Pernell Whitaker

Just a quick list but i consider those fighters to have the complete package.

Roy was great but he was by no means a complete fighter... He had athletisism that this sport had never seen before him..

Jones wasnt textbook fundamentals and technical ability with his offense or drfense.. If Roy worked on fundamentals 1st and Athletsism 2nd like Floyd does he would have never been sparked by Tarver.. It has taken Jones a few years to evolve into a better pure Boxer now that his reflexes have diminished he seems comfortable in the ring again and has 2 great fights left in him

You can also say that if Roy had been fundamentally sound eg had an effective jab it would have made him more orthadox and not the great unorthadox fighter he was.

Perhaps but with blinding speed, power and rediculous reflexes, would have never been a fair fight with anyone

[ICB]

What would you say Robinson lacked? and if there is a more complete packadge tell me.

I like Willie Pep but he had no power and Ali of the mid 60s at heavyweight was pretty complete.

The problem is unless your old as dirt you wouldn't have seen a prime Robinson, because there is no footage of him at Welterweight. I think these fighters had the complete package.

Salvador Sanchez
Alexis Arguello
Ricardo Lopez
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Roy Jones Jr
Pernell Whitaker

Just a quick list but i consider those fighters to have the complete package.

Roy was great but he was by no means a complete fighter... He had athletisism that this sport had never seen before him..

Jones wasnt textbook fundamentals and technical ability with his offense or drfense.. If Roy worked on fundamentals 1st and Athletsism 2nd like Floyd does he would have never been sparked by Tarver.. It has taken Jones a few years to evolve into a better pure Boxer now that his reflexes have diminished he seems comfortable in the ring again and has 2 great fights left in him

I think you slightly misunderstood what i meant JT i meant just attribute wise he is a complete fighter like, Power, Speed, Slickness, Footwork etc. Never would i make out he is a textbook fighter because he isn't, all the time i've been boxing i've never tried anything that Jones Jr does because he is a one off and we might never see another Roy Jones Jr in our life time, but i agree Mayweather Jr is a textbook complete fighter and at Super Featherweight he had the power which made him even more dangerous.

[JT Rock]

The problem is unless your old as dirt you wouldn't have seen a prime Robinson, because there is no footage of him at Welterweight. I think these fighters had the complete package.

Salvador Sanchez
Alexis Arguello
Ricardo Lopez
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Roy Jones Jr
Pernell Whitaker

Just a quick list but i consider those fighters to have the complete package.

Roy was great but he was by no means a complete fighter... He had athletisism that this sport had never seen before him..

Jones wasnt textbook fundamentals and technical ability with his offense or drfense.. If Roy worked on fundamentals 1st and Athletsism 2nd like Floyd does he would have never been sparked by Tarver.. It has taken Jones a few years to evolve into a better pure Boxer now that his reflexes have diminished he seems comfortable in the ring again and has 2 great fights left in him

I think you slightly misunderstood what i meant JT i meant just attribute wise he is a complete fighter like, Power, Speed, Slickness, Footwork etc. Never would i make out he is a textbook fighter because he isn't, all the time i've been boxing i've never tried anything that Jones Jr does because he is a one off and we might never see another Roy Jones Jr in our life time, but i agree Mayweather Jr is a textbook complete fighter and at Super Featherweight he had the power which made him even more dangerous.

Imagine a textbook Roy... My God it wouldnt ever been close with anybody... The amount of natural ability that man has is baffling... Like I staed already even if he was weight drained and suffering with the weight loss from Heavy, if he was a better technical Boxer he would have been able to compensate for his deterioration and would have never been KO'D by Johnson or Tarver

[ICB]

Roy was great but he was by no means a complete fighter... He had athletisism that this sport had never seen before him..

Jones wasnt textbook fundamentals and technical ability with his offense or drfense.. If Roy worked on fundamentals 1st and Athletsism 2nd like Floyd does he would have never been sparked by Tarver.. It has taken Jones a few years to evolve into a better pure Boxer now that his reflexes have diminished he seems comfortable in the ring again and has 2 great fights left in him

I think you slightly misunderstood what i meant JT i meant just attribute wise he is a complete fighter like, Power, Speed, Slickness, Footwork etc. Never would i make out he is a textbook fighter because he isn't, all the time i've been boxing i've never tried anything that Jones Jr does because he is a one off and we might never see another Roy Jones Jr in our life time, but i agree Mayweather Jr is a textbook complete fighter and at Super Featherweight he had the power which made him even more dangerous.

Imagine a textbook Roy... My God it wouldnt ever been close with anybody... The amount of natural ability that man has is baffling... Like I staed already even if he was weight drained and suffering with the weight loss from Heavy, if he was a better technical Boxer he would have been able to compensate for his deterioration and would have never been KO'D by Johnson or Tarver

Yes that is a scary thought JT i think in his own mind he still thinks he is the old RJJ, but age catches up with everyone and i would love him to get more technical in his approach. Although i do think he is somewhat on his way there, if you noticed in his last few fights he has been holding his hands higher, and throwing good accurate shots and not throwing as many lunging shots. I think fighters like JMM and FMJ could easily carry on until there 40 and still have good wins against top opposition, because of how good there technical skills are. Look at Hopkins he used to be a very aggressive fighter in his early days of being champion, but he adjusted and he can still be competitive with fighters like Calzaghe who is a top 3 P4P fighter, quite incredible isn't it ??

By the way Markus if you watched Vinny Pazineza fight you can see in that fight how great Jones was when he used his jab.

[ono]

I pick Jones but it wouldn't be an easy fight for him. Nowhere near as easy as the 'Jones inside 5' predictions on here. I think he'd win a UD.

I actually think Jones has a chance beating him now. I don't seem him being as shot as people make out. He lost a lot of weight after the Ruiz fight and he got ko'd twice. That experience obviously altered him as a fighter. He isn't as fast (altho stil faster than Calzaghe) as he used to be and he doesn't seem to be as active, but he's still very capable of putting on a performance.

When you get to the level that Jones got to, it's impossible to lose the talent that got him there. Obviously different fighters peak at different times. Jones obviously peaked a very long time ago, but the talent is still there. It's just a question of wether he is mentally and physically strong enough. A fight against Calzaghe is a very big incentive for Jones to go all out for the win. I woudn't be surprised if he managed it.

[JT Rock]

I pick Jones but it wouldn't be an easy fight for him. Nowhere near as easy as the 'Jones inside 5' predictions on here. I think he'd win a UD.

I actually think Jones has a chance beating him now. I don't seem him being as shot as people make out. He lost a lot of weight after the Ruiz fight and he got ko'd twice. That experience obviously altered him as a fighter. He isn't as fast (altho stil faster than Calzaghe) as he used to be and he doesn't seem to be as active, but he's still very capable of putting on a performance.

When you get to the level that Jones got to, it's impossible to lose the talent that got him there. Obviously different fighters peak at different times. Jones obviously peaked a very long time ago, but the talent is still there. It's just a question of wether he is mentally and physically strong enough. A fight against Calzaghe is a very big incentive for Jones to go all out for the win. I woudn't be surprised if he managed it.

Yoko! spot on my friend... I feel the same way, I think Jones has plenty in the tank and has evolved as a fighter to make adjustments to compensate for his diminished skills

[Bomp]

I pick Jones but it wouldn't be an easy fight for him. Nowhere near as easy as the 'Jones inside 5' predictions on here. I think he'd win a UD.

I actually think Jones has a chance beating him now. I don't seem him being as shot as people make out. He lost a lot of weight after the Ruiz fight and he got ko'd twice. That experience obviously altered him as a fighter. He isn't as fast (altho stil faster than Calzaghe) as he used to be and he doesn't seem to be as active, but he's still very capable of putting on a performance.

When you get to the level that Jones got to, it's impossible to lose the talent that got him there. Obviously different fighters peak at different times. Jones obviously peaked a very long time ago, but the talent is still there. It's just a question of wether he is mentally and physically strong enough. A fight against Calzaghe is a very big incentive for Jones to go all out for the win. I woudn't be surprised if he managed it.

I agree with this (not read most of the thread, can imagine a lot of shit slinging about). I'm undecided who'll win this year, I think both guys have slipped a bit.

As for prime, Jones was special and I'd pick him to win a wide UD against a prime Joe, noting that prime Joe would probably be his toughest opponent.

It's tough to gauge prime, as there best performances don't necasarily coincide with their actual prime. There best performances usually come against the best opponent for their style (good example is Tyson-Spinks). While Joe's best performance was against Lacy, I feel he had already slipped physically, however the challenge brought an extra focus to his game, which could have been pretty special if the Joe of 4/5 years earlier could have had the opponent to bring the best focus out of him.

I think Roy's prime is easier to spot, it was probably at 168 circa Toney fight. Roy suffers in the eyes of many since he was almost too good, opponents are often classed as off their game or just never any good since he made them look that way.

[TitoFan]

Wow... 40-7. This has to be one of the most lopsided polls I've seen here in awhile.

[rjj tszyu]

I pick Jones but it wouldn't be an easy fight for him. Nowhere near as easy as the 'Jones inside 5' predictions on here. I think he'd win a UD.

I actually think Jones has a chance beating him now. I don't seem him being as shot as people make out. He lost a lot of weight after the Ruiz fight and he got ko'd twice. That experience obviously altered him as a fighter. He isn't as fast (altho stil faster than Calzaghe) as he used to be and he doesn't seem to be as active, but he's still very capable of putting on a performance.

When you get to the level that Jones got to, it's impossible to lose the talent that got him there. Obviously different fighters peak at different times. Jones obviously peaked a very long time ago, but the talent is still there. It's just a question of wether he is mentally and physically strong enough. A fight against Calzaghe is a very big incentive for Jones to go all out for the win. I woudn't be surprised if he managed it.

I agree with this (not read most of the thread, can imagine a lot of shit slinging about). I'm undecided who'll win this year, I think both guys have slipped a bit.

As for prime, Jones was special and I'd pick him to win a wide UD against a prime Joe, noting that prime Joe would probably be his toughest opponent.

It's tough to gauge prime, as there best performances don't necasarily coincide with their actual prime. There best performances usually come against the best opponent for their style (good example is Tyson-Spinks). While Joe's best performance was against Lacy, I feel he had already slipped physically, however the challenge brought an extra focus to his game, which could have been pretty special if the Joe of 4/5 years earlier could have had the opponent to bring the best focus out of him.

I think Roy's prime is easier to spot, it was probably at 168 circa Toney fight. Roy suffers in the eyes of many since he was almost too good, opponents are often classed as off their game or just never any good since he made them look that way.

I totally agree with both of you I think that Jones would probably win a very wide UD or joes father may take pity on a badly beaten Joe and pull him out. The only thing I don't quite agree with is I thought that Jones peaked at light heavy in his rematch with Griffin I thought that the focus, speed and punch power in that fight were absolutely amazing and it is my favourite 1st round KO ever.