David Haines beheading: David Cameron says Britain will hunt down Isis 'monsters'

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

The English Muslims are just sick of the invasions and killing of innocent Muslims and it isn't easy to adapt to life in a foreign country either. If Korea was bombing the UK, how would I feel? I would get angry. Iraq was the real killer of any hope domestically in that regard. Even most non-Muslim Brits hate what we did to Iraq and want Blair in the Hague. Domestic Muslims are angrier and understandably so.

You have to admit that illegally invading a country was wrong, say sorry and lock up the bad guys. Otherwise, there is no reason to expect respect of our political system from anyone. Until you stop the source, then the blood will keep on flowing. Ignoring Saudi Arabia with 23 beheadings is a joke too. 'We must not upset them as they will attack like in 9-11'. Really? So, what is this Isis, why is Saudi Arabia still there? Why invade Iraq and mess up Syria? See, you have an agenda and are rotten. Arrest Blair, Bush, and then people will take you seriously. Otherwise, this goes on forever. Even ordinary people are completely against the establishment and are just looking for the moment to break out.

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Fuck you miles

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

The English Muslims are just sick of the invasions and killing of innocent Muslims and it isn't easy to adapt to life in a foreign country either. If Korea was bombing the UK, how would I feel? I would get angry. Iraq was the real killer of any hope domestically in that regard. Even most non-Muslim Brits hate what we did to Iraq and want Blair in the Hague. Domestic Muslims are angrier and understandably so.

You have to admit that illegally invading a country was wrong, say sorry and lock up the bad guys. Otherwise, there is no reason to expect respect of our political system from anyone. Until you stop the source, then the blood will keep on flowing. Ignoring Saudi Arabia with 23 beheadings is a joke too. 'We must not upset them as they will attack like in 9-11'. Really? So, what is this Isis, why is Saudi Arabia still there? Why invade Iraq and mess up Syria? See, you have an agenda and are rotten. Arrest Blair, Bush, and then people will take you seriously. Otherwise, this goes on forever. Even ordinary people are completely against the establishment and are just looking for the moment to break out.

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Fuck you miles

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Here we go again.

It was wrong to invade Iraq. Can you not see that? It creates blow back in so many ways too regardless of the illegality. Iraq is like it is because of America. I am no Muslim, but I can rationalise and see why some Brits would be so angry. There are no penalties for invading countries illegally and so people take it personally and then want to do something. If people could see that Bush and Blair are put in a cell and we apologise, then it is a sign that we don't want eternal war with a new group that we also funded, scripted, and gave weapons to, but of course, eternal war is the point. Be it real or make believe and it really is a mix of the two.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Here we go again.

It was wrong to invade Iraq. Can you not see that? It creates blow back in so many ways too regardless of the illegality. Iraq is like it is because of America. I am no Muslim, but I can rationalise and see why some Brits would be so angry. There are no penalties for invading countries illegally and so people take it personally and then want to do something. If people could see that Bush and Blair are put in a cell and we apologise, then it is a sign that we don't want eternal war with a new group that we also funded, scripted, and gave weapons to, but of course, eternal war is the point. Be it real or make believe and it really is a mix of the two.

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Indeed "here we go again" because I'm going to take you to fucking school AGAIN

#1 Saddam Hussein refused UN weapons inspectors access to certain areas in DIRECT violation of the guidelines set up following the Persian Gulf War.

fuck you miles

#2 Congress voted to authorize use of armed forces in Iraq

fuck you miles

#3 The UN Security Council voted UNANIMOUSLY 15-0 on resolution 1441 meaning it had even MORE support than the Persian Gulf War

fuck you miles

#4 Kofi "Oil for Food" Annan said that "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN Charter. From our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal." ....which is his OPINION and it is very different from the sheer FACTS that Iraq YES undeniably violated the guidelines set up after the Persian Gulf War when he was so graciously allowed to stay in power.

So again

fuck you miles and how about you take some time and instead of being a contrarian twat fucking read up on what actually happened and learn something you effete jackass.

No....

1. You tortured the Iraqi people with sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of children.
2. Thus achieved the time was right to strike.
3. Iraq had NOTHING TO DO with 9/11/ Zero.
4. You had to get Saddam regardless.
5. WMD was the key word......a lie and which should have collapsed a functioning democracy.
6. Saddam wanted to trade in Euros, anything to break the crippling sanctions....he wasn't allowed to.
7. Then you decided, we will get you regardless, you contrary git.

Well, maybe you did. But it was wrong. I am no Muslim, but I think more of Saddam than Tony Blair or brain dead Bush. I really do and many others do too. They are Muslim and they are angry.

I know my history, I read up on the issues, more than most in fact and certainly more than you. You created the havoc, but the part you don't realise is that your lovely government is mixing up the brew. You gave the weapons and training and now abdicate responsibility.

This is your fault. Again. You have created the enemy. Armed both sides as usual in fact.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

No....

1. You tortured the Iraqi people with sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of children.
2. Thus achieved the time was right to strike.
3. Iraq had NOTHING TO DO with 9/11/ Zero.
4. You had to get Saddam regardless.
5. WMD was the key word......a lie and which should have collapsed a functioning democracy.
6. Saddam wanted to trade in Euros, anything to break the crippling sanctions....he wasn't allowed to.
7. Then you decided, we will get you regardless, you contrary git.

Well, maybe you did. But it was wrong. I am no Muslim, but I think more of Saddam than Tony Blair or brain dead Bush. I really do and many others do too. They are Muslim and they are angry.

I know my history, I read up on the issues, more than most in fact and certainly more than you. You created the havoc, but the part you don't realise is that your lovely government is mixing up the brew. You gave the weapons and training and now abdicate responsibility.

This is your fault. Again. You have created the enemy. Armed both sides as usual in fact.

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I fail to see what that has to do with ISIS.

ISIS weren't undertaking any anti American actions. They were and are trying to impose a subjugated and united (by fear) Islamic state across Syria and Iraq. Which does not include Shias or Kurds by the way. They are oppressors. Oppose them.


Two other things generally (not directed at you Miles) -
Even Al -Qaeda dissociated themselves from ISIS earlier this year due to their barbarity (basically this boiled down to them killing Muslims too, something that Al-Qaeda drew the line at.

@Greenbeanz Did you see that news this evening that had a couple of different videos of Muslims appealing to ISIS to release Alan Henning? One was in tears.
Just thought it was a positive thing to see.

Also, even Al Qaeda told them to release him (this was months ago, not since it has been made public though).

[QUOTE=Greenbeanz;1268961]

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by Master;1268806ga muslims have come out and are against these terrorist actions. It is a mindless minority that receive the attention because of their extreme actions.[/QUOTE

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

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Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

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Disagree with you for the first time. Majority of muslims are against these extremists, they have killed more Muslims than the US have and are more of a danger to Iraqis.

You are right and taking their passports, not allowing them back in, tag them and monitor them and make their lives unbearable.

Ryanman, my general point is that America invaded a sovereign country illegally, thus allowing destabilisation that in turn allowed the conditions for Isis. Look at Libya today, it is hell and the West did that, not Gaddaffi. Of course, Isis was funded and trained by the Americans in an attempt to topple Assad's regime and then take back Iraq which gave them the boot. How can this warmongering nation be anywhere near the region considering it is funding every side? Terror doesn't emerge from a vacuum, it becomes this powerful because the very powerful gestate it.

Unless you get to the root of the problem, you are never going to solve the problem. Wiping out Isis does not erase the monsters (McCain for instance) that created them. They will farm them again somewhere else. I am against Isis, but how dare anyone get angry and not demand that these monsters go domestically. Cameron, Obama, Bush, Blair, et al....all of them need to be in the Hague. Why aren't they? This is serious, and people are going to let them get away with it....again?

People need to get serious and have a word with themselves. If you want a quiet life, you are not going to get it. There will be no future for your children at this rate. People have to rise up. Isis is a tiny part of the problem, the real problem is the beast that people hope will quietly go away and leave them alone. It won't go away as it feeds on you all and controls you. It creates terror and enslaves you. It is the media, the banks, the politics. It is the monster. Isis? You are scared of Isis? You voted for Isis, Isis is the elite. Get them out, all of them. Oppose them sure, but oppose them all.

[QUOTE=Master;1269078]

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by Master;1268806ga muslims have come out and are against these terrorist actions. It is a mindless minority that receive the attention because of their extreme actions.[/QUOTE

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

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Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

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Disagree with you for the first time. Majority of muslims are against these extremists, they have killed more Muslims than the US have and are more of a danger to Iraqis.

You are right and taking their passports, not allowing them back in, tag them and monitor them and make their lives unbearable.

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Muslims took to the streets in angry protest at the bombing in gaza , and I mean in their thousands. So until they do this in protest against Isis , then their lack of action says they either support or condone them. A public statement by one Muslim does not do it for me sorry buddy.

[QUOTE=Master;1269078]

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by Master;1268806ga muslims have come out and are against these terrorist actions. It is a mindless minority that receive the attention because of their extreme actions.[/QUOTE

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

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Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

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Disagree with you for the first time. Majority of muslims are against these extremists, they have killed more Muslims than the US have and are more of a danger to Iraqis.

You are right and taking their passports, not allowing them back in, tag them and monitor them and make their lives unbearable.

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Mine and Greenbeanz quotes are mixed up there.

[QUOTE=Dark Lord Al;1269221]

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by Master;1268806ga muslims have come out and are against these terrorist actions. It is a mindless minority that receive the attention because of their extreme actions.[/QUOTE

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

---

Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

---

Disagree with you for the first time. Majority of muslims are against these extremists, they have killed more Muslims than the US have and are more of a danger to Iraqis.

You are right and taking their passports, not allowing them back in, tag them and monitor them and make their lives unbearable.

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Muslims took to the streets in angry protest at the bombing in gaza , and I mean in their thousands. So until they do this in protest against Isis , then their lack of action says they either support or condone them. A public statement by one Muslim does not do it for me sorry buddy.

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I can respect that view for sure Al.

I just wonder how safe it would be for many in Gaza for example to show their anger, as they are well within reach of these killers. Just me theorizing though.

I've just read this -
BBC News - Alan Henning: Muslim call for release of UK hostage

A sentence from it -

More than 100 British Muslim imams, organisations and individuals wrote to express their "horror and revulsion" at the "senseless murder" of Briton David Haines and the threat to the life of Mr Henning.


*EDIT* Now I have misquoted too. Sorry.

[QUOTE=ryanman;1269231]

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by Master;1268806ga muslims have come out and are against these terrorist actions. It is a mindless minority that receive the attention because of their extreme actions.[/QUOTE

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

---

Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

---

Disagree with you for the first time. Majority of muslims are against these extremists, they have killed more Muslims than the US have and are more of a danger to Iraqis.

You are right and taking their passports, not allowing them back in, tag them and monitor them and make their lives unbearable.

---

Muslims took to the streets in angry protest at the bombing in gaza , and I mean in their thousands. So until they do this in protest against Isis , then their lack of action says they either support or condone them. A public statement by one Muslim does not do it for me sorry buddy.

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I can respect that view for sure Al.

I just wonder how safe it would be for many in Gaza for example to show their anger, as they are well within reach of these killers. Just me theorizing though.

I've just read this -
BBC News - Alan Henning: Muslim call for release of UK hostage

A sentence from it -

More than 100 British Muslim imams, organisations and individuals wrote to express their "horror and revulsion" at the "senseless murder" of Briton David Haines and the threat to the life of Mr Henning.


*EDIT* Now I have misquoted too. Sorry.

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Buddy I'm not talking about Muslim leaders I'm talking about the man on the street , if they really wanted to show their disgust then let's see them marching the streets.
A few people saying it is not the same , it is simple Muslims are Muslims and that is the way they are , they never say in British , always Muslim.
They stick together whatever happens , we have had the Trojan horse where they where actually preaching hate against the British people , today in Australia they have arrested a number of Muslim fanatics , we need to put a stop to this , because they walk amounts us and we do nothing.

[QUOTE=Dark Lord Al;1269221]

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by Master;1268806ga muslims have come out and are against these terrorist actions. It is a mindless minority that receive the attention because of their extreme actions.[/QUOTE

Yes they have.
In the past I was critical that the Muslim community didn't voice opposition loudly. But it is not the case this time. People need to be flexible enough to see that what (arguably) applied before doesn't necessarily apply now.

---

Sadly it is actually only a minority who have spoken out and most Muslims in this country are not moderate at all. This is an uncomfortable truth that we must face before we can change anything.

---

Disagree with you for the first time. Majority of muslims are against these extremists, they have killed more Muslims than the US have and are more of a danger to Iraqis.

You are right and taking their passports, not allowing them back in, tag them and monitor them and make their lives unbearable.

---

Muslims took to the streets in angry protest at the bombing in gaza , and I mean in their thousands. So until they do this in protest against Isis , then their lack of action says they either support or condone them. A public statement by one Muslim does not do it for me sorry buddy.

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Al has a good point and the thing is they are very good condoning none Muslims, but there own
there lips are sealed. The Muslims if they want Fundamentalism are in the wrong Country, this
should not be tolerated by the powers that be.

Why should ordinary Muslims be protesting about Isis in numbers? Maybe the hysteria has been so whipped up that many ordinary Muslims are simply frightened. Frightened of a government that hates everybody in society and funds terror, frightened of prejudiced people who lap it all up, and frightened of what they are reading in the papers everyday. If you were to believe The Daily Mail etc, it is pretty scary stuff. Though I don't for a moment believe it is an accurate picture myself.

I think most people are struggling in a world that has been designed to make people suffer. By the same token children are being abused all around the country and gag orders are being put on care home investigations. You could also ask why don't parents protest about institutional paedophilia in large numbers? Why are British parents not concerned about the abuse of children? It's a scary topic and most people are not outspoken.

Again I wouldn't blame all parents when many are really struggling to survive, let alone get down to London and vent their anger for days at a time. I apply the same to moderate Muslims.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Why should ordinary Muslims be protesting about Isis in numbers? Maybe the hysteria has been so whipped up that many ordinary Muslims are simply frightened. Frightened of a government that hates everybody in society and funds terror, frightened of prejudiced people who lap it all up, and frightened of what they are reading in the papers everyday. If you were to believe The Daily Mail etc, it is pretty scary stuff. Though I don't for a moment believe it is an accurate picture myself.

I think most people are struggling in a world that has been designed to make people suffer. By the same token children are being abused all around the country and gag orders are being put on care home investigations. You could also ask why don't parents protest about institutional paedophilia in large numbers? Why are British parents not concerned about the abuse of children? It's a scary topic and most people are not outspoken.

Again I wouldn't blame all parents when many are really struggling to survive, let alone get down to London and vent their anger for days at a time. I apply the same to moderate Muslims.

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Ordinary Muslims should be protesting about Isis in numbers because large numbers of "ordinary" muslims are sympathetic to the idea of imposing their own ideology on others. If they do not speak out, then they are suggesting to their young men that the behaviour of Isis is understandable and excusable, just like you do on a regular basis. Maybe Muslims girls and women forced to hide their God given beauty under a veil and burqa are frightened. Maybe moderate Muslims trapped by a religion that teaches intolerance are frightened to speak out. Maybe ordinary people who are told that they are prejudiced for feeling uncomfortable in the presence of such censorship are frightened.

Why do you seek to diminish the intelligence of the Brtish people and portray them as all dumb tabloid readers ? Why do you continually change the subject ? Is it because you are seeking to pretend that the liberal tolerance that you enjoy, should not have to be extended to all citizens of the UK, and that victims of Islamic extremism, inside and out of the religion, somehow deserve it ?

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Why should ordinary Muslims be protesting about Isis in numbers? Maybe the hysteria has been so whipped up that many ordinary Muslims are simply frightened. Frightened of a government that hates everybody in society and funds terror, frightened of prejudiced people who lap it all up, and frightened of what they are reading in the papers everyday. If you were to believe The Daily Mail etc, it is pretty scary stuff. Though I don't for a moment believe it is an accurate picture myself.

I think most people are struggling in a world that has been designed to make people suffer. By the same token children are being abused all around the country and gag orders are being put on care home investigations. You could also ask why don't parents protest about institutional paedophilia in large numbers? Why are British parents not concerned about the abuse of children? It's a scary topic and most people are not outspoken.

Again I wouldn't blame all parents when many are really struggling to survive, let alone get down to London and vent their anger for days at a time. I apply the same to moderate Muslims.

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Ordinary Muslims should be protesting about Isis in numbers because large numbers of "ordinary" muslims are sympathetic to the idea of imposing their own ideology on others. If they do not speak out, then they are suggesting to their young men that the behaviour of Isis is understandable and excusable, just like you do on a regular basis. Maybe Muslims girls and women forced to hide their God given beauty under a veil and burqa are frightened. Maybe moderate Muslims trapped by a religion that teaches intolerance are frightened to speak out. Maybe ordinary people who are told that they are prejudiced for feeling uncomfortable in the presence of such censorship are frightened.

Why do you seek to diminish the intelligence of the Brtish people and portray them as all dumb tabloid readers ? Why do you continually change the subject ? Is it because you are seeking to pretend that the liberal tolerance that you enjoy, should not have to be extended to all citizens of the UK, and that victims of Islamic extremism, inside and out of the religion, somehow deserve it ?

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I don't diminish the intelligence of ordinary people, but I know that you cannot be completely aware and active when you work hard to just feed your family and pay the rent. The glimpse of the paper or the nightly news is typically your information.

The reason I brought up child abuse is because it is easy to blame groups for not being active, but most people are not active. It isn't a Muslim trait, it is a societal trait. Where are the mass protests about child abuse? Or Isis? Or privatised health care?

Personally, I would love to see more activism. Here hundreds of thousands were protesting US beef. Beef! Day in day out. I didn't agree with the issue, but the numbers were impressive. Yet, in the UK there is a lot more apathy over far more serious issues. Only Gaza seems to wake anyone up.