Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Fury and Chisora are even enough for a rematch I reckon Sure Fury won soundly but Chsiora wasn't in top shape there. The result might be the same. I'd back Fury again too as you said

As for the other fight, that fight warrants a rematch imo. I think Arreola would have had Stiverne were it not for that early shot.

It's just how Chris said it... If he had someone hurt like that he would have gotten them out of there but Stiverne didn't, he is not a finisher. And Chris had immense heart and fortitude to stay in there and get his ass kicked all night and survive. I reckon that'll be a very interesting rematch. Not a waste of time imo.

The only waste of time was Haye jerking Fury around but in reality it wasn't like that was it, Haye was just an idiot sparring so hard right before the fight and the injury was otherwise unlucky He could not have fought like that, that was a BAD injury, no doctor would allow it imo.

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If he didn't get ht he would have won?

Yeah, of course he would but but unfortunately all the fighters that have beaten him actually punch back and thats his big problem is he does get hit, too often. I don't believe he's suddenly turned in to Mayweather in the last year so expect him to get hit and hurt again.

Would you say this era is strong, or is Wlad the proverbial one eyed man in the land of the blind?

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

Would you say this era is strong, or is Wlad the proverbial one eyed man in the land of the blind?

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The era is crap, apart from the Klit brothers who could mix it in any era especially Vitali, Wlad less so.

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Fury and Chisora are even enough for a rematch I reckon Sure Fury won soundly but Chsiora wasn't in top shape there. The result might be the same. I'd back Fury again too as you said

As for the other fight, that fight warrants a rematch imo. I think Arreola would have had Stiverne were it not for that early shot.

It's just how Chris said it... If he had someone hurt like that he would have gotten them out of there but Stiverne didn't, he is not a finisher. And Chris had immense heart and fortitude to stay in there and get his ass kicked all night and survive. I reckon that'll be a very interesting rematch. Not a waste of time imo.

The only waste of time was Haye jerking Fury around but in reality it wasn't like that was it, Haye was just an idiot sparring so hard right before the fight and the injury was otherwise unlucky He could not have fought like that, that was a BAD injury, no doctor would allow it imo.

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If he didn't get ht he would have won?

Yeah, of course he would but but unfortunately all the fighters that have beaten him actually punch back and thats his big problem is he does get hit, too often. I don't believe he's suddenly turned in to Mayweather in the last year so expect him to get hit and hurt again.

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Mayweather he is not by a long shot lol it wasn't like that though was it. Chris looked to be in control of things until he got pasted by that 1 shot! He'll be a little more cautious this time.

You see that's HW boxing today, Arreola has an iron chin and a very aggressive style and powerful Yet even though that can make for an explosive fight, 1 punch can turn the tide, so safety must always be considered. Yesteryear boxers were weaker to the point that they could use their face as a defence and still remain vertical for 15 rounds. ;)

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

Would you say this era is strong, or is Wlad the proverbial one eyed man in the land of the blind?

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It's definitely one of the strongest eras, a woman, child or casual fan can see that straight away when they compare visually fights and fighters and records and stats.

It's just that Wlad is so special he has completely transformed HW boxing with his minimalist style.

Certainly, Wladimir would not be nearly as effective without his dimensions, but then again neither would have been Lennox Lewis or Muhammad Ali who out-talled nearly all of their opponents.

Several of Wladimir's top opponents would have punched their way straight to the top of most other eras. Fact!

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

Would you say this era is strong, or is Wlad the proverbial one eyed man in the land of the blind?

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The era is crap, apart from the Klit brothers who could mix it in any era especially Vitali, Wlad less so.

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David Haye
Samuel Peter
Ruslan Chagaev
Sultan Ibragimov
Chris Arreola
Bermane Stiverne
Deontay Wilder
Bryant Jennings
Alexander Povetkin

The list goes on and on and on....

Any of the few fighters I listed off the top of my head above would easily obliterate almost any eras champions and would be evenly matched in the 90's!

But we must never lose sight of the fact that despite so many people saying today's Heavyweights are mediocre (or even outright crap :) ), any current Heavyweight right now in the Top 10 would absolutely CRUSH Floyd Mayweather, Andre Ward, Juan Manuel Marquez, Tim Bradley, Sergio Martinez, Guillermo Rigondeaux, Carl Froch, or Manny Pacquiao; basically any of the top lighter weight class fighters!


...so modern heavies are not so crappy after all; they remain the top-of-the-food-chain, the REAL Top fighters in Boxing because what really matters isn't fiction like P4P, but who comes out on top when two men actually fight.

Lb for lb also matters Bradley, nobody is naïve enough to claim that Pac Man or Floyd would obliterate the HW division are they!

Dude this era get would get crushed by the 90's i mean even the champs had problems with the aging guys from the 90's. Vitaili lost to a old Lewis and Wald got kncoked out by a journeyman and a guy who was just a contender from the era lets not pump it up so much please dear god come on.

Max that is the best you can offer from your list? You are a tit.

For s#!t's sake, just imagine what Oliver McCall would do to Floyd Mayweather or Andre Ward right now in any kind of fight! It doesn't matter that he's 49 years old.

Weight-classes and pound-for-pound are money-making schemes because with extremely rare exception, these little f*<kers can never beat a decent Heavyweight, nor even dent him a bit for that matter.

The Greatest Fighter in all Boxing will always remain the Heavyweight Champion of the World.

That's the way it ought to be, and that's the way it is.

Always has been, always will be...

Your a numb nuts Bradlee lol

Tell us how those fighters would be at the top of other eras.

And again, you say fighters like Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, and Jersey Joe Walcott used their faces as defense, when anyone who know anything about boxing knows that isn't true.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Dude this era get would get crushed by the 90's i mean even the champs had problems with the aging guys from the 90's. Vitaili lost to a old Lewis and Wald got kncoked out by a journeyman and a guy who was just a contender from the era lets not pump it up so much please dear god come on.

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That doesn't mean shit that Wlad got caught and knocked out by journeymen sometimes, the same could happen today and that doesn't mean that guy is a better boxer, Wlad would be just as good against those opponents as he is now!

Vitali lost to what ageing guy, Lennox fuckin Lewis! WOW Probably the best HW there's ever been and at what age... 37.. Gee that's SUPER fuckin old isn't it you fool! Mayweather's friggin age right now and LEwis was a HW who can obviously last longer! And what a controversial ending that was anyway, necessitating a rematch and who didn't show up for that again?

Even just that small list of fighters were comparable to the 90's contenders.

Morrison
Grant
Botha
Holyfield
McCall
Rahman
Briggs
Tua
90's Tyson
Ruddock

There's 10 of LEwis' TOP opponents.

Great fighters, top boxers, yet I see not a whole lot of difference between them and Wladimir/Vitali's toppest opponents and several of the other newest contenders like Wilder and Jennings for instance.

Let's try match some up if you think they were so superior???

I think things reached a kind of pinnacle in the 90's, and if things have faltered at all, it has only been by the slightest margin in reality, and that would only be that there were maybe several more decent opponents in the 90's (the true golden era) than there are now. That's not complete superiority in my book.

I don't know why the Lewis-Vitali fight was controversial. Vitali was bleeding badly, and would have been blind in that eye if the fight continued.

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

Tell us how those fighters would be at the top of other eras.

And again, you say fighters like Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, and Jersey Joe Walcott used their faces as defense, when anyone who know anything about boxing knows that isn't true.

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Louis got caught by some ridiculously shit punches that no slick HW today like Byrd or Haye or Wlad would get caught with. Evading those lumbering giants he fought must have been REAL hard work for a champion boxer lol. Tunney's defence was good against guys like Jack fuckin Dempsey! Somehow I think he'd be getting sparked out by the LEapai's of the division today. Walcott was a defensinve fighter, no argument but he was too small to be effective and even still he was no Eddie Chambers!

And that's all you can come up with VG? 3 fighters!

What about 70's Muhammad, Frazier, Marciano, practically every other boxer! Why do you think you LIKE those eras so much? It's because they took chances which either succeeded (the opponent got punched) or failed (they got punched) and it was a slug fest. They could tolerate the punches and so it went back and forth all night. That's what you LOVED about boxing.

Well I'm sorry, times changed. Boxers got smarter and try not to get hurt more now.

Chris Byrd sparring in something like an 8 foot square concrete walled ring and learned to bend around shots like they were nothing, David Haye can similarly stand right on the edge and not be assaulted by giant men with really hard and fast punches.

Show me 1... Just a single 1, HW apart from the 90's, apart from Mike Tyson, who can do anything remotely approaching that!

gtfo!

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

I don't know why the Lewis-Vitali fight was controversial. Vitali was bleeding badly, and would have been blind in that eye if the fight continued.

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Maybe you should watch it again then. Those cuts weren't even caused by clean shots, hence unlucky there.

The whole crowd cheered for Vitali when most ppl initially came to see Lewis! Every commentator on the block, including Big George Foreman and the GOAT analyst himself Larry Merchant agreed that should have been a rematch.

There was about as much controversy as there has EVER been in a hw fight!

If the fight had continued, people would have bitched about how it should have been stopped, because Vitali's eye would have been permanently damaged.

Wald had a weak chin and there were more then enough big punches to end him with more skills. Shit Holyfeild at 48 could of held a belt again if he was not robbed of it in this era. Rahman was actually able knock out Lewis and Sanders the man to make Wald look like shit and knocked him cold and Lewis the older version that ripped Vatilis face to peaces and was coming on strong. Who the fuck has Wald fought who would not lose to Sanders i think he gives them all a run for there money. Also the Brothers have power but not really one punch power they wear guys down so Wald could be rushed. Vatili was peak and Lewis was few months away from 38 and was worth 150 million and came in at fucking 257 very high weight for him the highest he ever weighed. I am just saying this era is not very strong after the brothers really i would say 80's strong really not much better the 90's eclipses this era really.

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

If the fight had continued, people would have bitched about how it should have been stopped, because Vitali's eye would have been permanently damaged.

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I never said the fight should not have been stopped and LEwis awarded the win. I agree.

I said that the fight was highly controversial as to who was the better boxer and required a rematch.

The fact that ppl are still arguing over TKO6 today makes it pretty obvious it was controversial. I kind of place myself middle ground on that issue, I can see it from both sides and really both are 2 of the most tremendous HW's of all time!

I can't stand it when either side tries to sell either Vitali OR Lewis short.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Wald had a weak chin and there were more then enough big punches to end him with more skills. Shit Holyfeild at 48 could of held a belt again if he was not robbed of it in this era. Rahman was actually able knock out Lewis and Sanders the man to make Wald look like shit and knocked him cold and Lewis the older version that ripped Vatilis face to peaces and was coming on strong. Who the fuck has Wald fought who would not lose to Sanders i think he gives them all a run for there money. Also the Brothers have power but not really one punch power they wear guys down so Wald could be rushed. Vatili was peak and Lewis was few months away from 38 and was worth 150 million and came in at fucking 257 very high weight for him the highest he ever weighed. I am just saying this era is not very strong after the brothers really i would say 80's strong really not much better the 90's eclipses this era really.

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Yeah Wlad could have been sparked out by them, no argument there, just like McCall and Rahman got Lewis. They've both been sparked by an equal percent with regards to how many fights they had. That doesn't mean either of them are lesser boxers to the guys that got them.

Sanders I rate very highly, there's no guarantee that was his best opponent though. Wlad got Rahman who got Sanders. Sanders got beat by guys WAY worse than Wlad, what a stupid comment. And what's more, how many of Lewis' opponents actually fought Sander's.. Rahman? Gee that's representative. Who's to say that Sanders couldn't beat most of them either? Or maybe get lucky against Lewis? He was good enough! Sanders would also punch his way to the top of the earlier eras.

Vitali might be more of an accumulation arm puncher sure but Wladimir is maybe the most powerful right hand puncher of all time. Your crazy, look at those things! If opponents take those it's because they are very solid boxers, again his shorter opponents who are not slick tend to be chubby because they need to be to take the punch.

Vitali was not peak, he got better and Lewis had the experience of all of his career behind him which is worth more than ANY other statistic, even weight to a large factor! And Lewis came in only 5 lbs heftier than usual at JUST OVER 250 I believe so don't exaggerate, he looked to be among the best versions of Lewis to me and claimed himself to be feeling terrific. Why do you think Lewis retired, he seen the destruction that followed and thought "fuck that shit!"

Having said all that I do believe the 90's was still the golden era but the benchmark is not a whole lot higher than it is now.

The 90's was considerd crap at the time I remember. Now the 00's is beginning to get some credit too and the 10's is regarded as the worst. :rolleyes:

Lewis was planning on retiring before the rematch with Tyson went through i am pretty sure he was done with boxing what else did he have to prove. Rahman thing does not really work with me because that was way after his peak he had not had a great win in a while. How do i know Vatili has got any better really i mean there has been no one close to Lewis for him to fight Corrie Sanders is his best win and he was mostly a golfer then a boxer when he fought the brothers look at his fighting schedule. Walds best win is what Haye maybe whose best wins are that english dude and Gaint who got a huge gift against a fucking 48 year old Holyfeild who been fighting 26 years shit pisses me off should got that belt and retried. Wald opponents are not really better then Sanders and as for Vatili who is even close to Lewis that he has fought so i can see how he has gotten better really.

Wladimir fought the most diverse opponents of all styles and all shapes and styles of any HW boxer all time. I dunno where your even coming from with that!

And as for Vitali and Lewis, we can flip the reasoning on its head there. How do you know Lewis was really better based on that fight because he never faced an opponent anywhere near as good as that before!

Shit reasoning either way imo.

You say the same as all the other "Lewtards" do in that fight. Oh he was planning on retirement anyway. He took the fucking fight! He was confident, he declared himself ready, he looked as good as ever, he was ONLY 37 and he only weighed in a few lbs heavier than usual which at Lewis' size, means pretty much jack shit and might have even been beneficial. Just speculating here now, but that extra chub could have made the difference between him winning TKO6 or getting wasted!

They are both very equivalent and 2 of the best HW's of all time. I would tell the story toa "Klittard" too if they dissed Lewis or his era!

Only 37 having achieved Olympic gold medal, unified the division with all the politics involved beat everyone there was realistically available. Yes Lewis was old and secure.

Yea Max Wald just faced the best there has ever been give me break dude just please. As for Lewis he was almost 38 few months away worth 150 mil and was saying he was retiring. He was going to fight Tyson but fell through for the money but fought Vatili and mad his face look like a vag and retired that is all i can say man. Who is it that was better then Sanders that Wald has fought can you give me some names and as far as the older Brother how can you really see growth when the comp is no were close to the guy who beat him it is a hard thing to do my friend not easy at all.

Actually your wrong, Lennox was going to fight Johnson until Johnson pulled out with an injury.

Look man, Wlad MIGHT or MIGHT NOT have beaten anybody as good as Sanders. But Haye, Peter, Ibragimov, Thompson, Povetkin, Chagaev, Rahman all could have been for example, Sanders certainly lost to lesser fighters than that! In the end that is irrelevant because LEwis himself never even fought Sanders! Who's to say that Sander's could not have got the early drop on Lewis either on the right night? He certainly COULD have!

But Vitali's comp was not bad. He fought the heftiest opponents with the best records of all time. Everybody was either a champion, past present or future, and unbeaten top contender or a veteran with a good record and/or otherwise a giant puncher.

And since LEwis, Vitali has simply punched the living shit out of ALL of his opponents so strikingly, without losing hardly a round, without ever being behind on pts, without hitting the deck...

When Lewis fought his LESSER OPPONENTS than Vitali... He was not so strikingly dominant. He sometimes got knocked out, he sometimes struggled with guys like Mercer etc, which Vitali would simply beat to a pulp! I see more consistency with Vitali than I do with Lewis.

That's how I can say that Vitali improved. I'm not basing it on the single best opponent like yoou are because that's convenient for Lewis since he fought Vitali last. I'm basing it on the fact that the general overall level of Vitali's opponents significantly picked up AFTER Lewis than he fought BEFORE, and his performance was held extraordinarily.

Have you even seen some of those fights? Nobody in their right mind would label that brother "boring"

I am a big corey sanders fan .. but i think people are getting a bit carried away with his actual abilty... he beat wlad fair and square, wladimir was young and got ko'd.. Wladimir has definently improved since then, and fights a lot smarter now, it is strange to think(looking at the way he boxes now) but back in his earlier pro days he was very aggresive and it cost him.. Sanders was a pretty good guy, very tough and hit hard.... but he was a complete wild man who did not defend himself at all, he was very easy to hit.. He's a good opponent for a lot of guys but he was not at the top level in my opinion... Him v haye prime for prime would be a very interesting fight... I think haye would have ko'd him, but sanders had long arms he could have sent him to the floor just as easy.. Anyway sanders was great fun to watch and underrated but he was never that great.

as for vitali being in his prime when he face lewis... maybe we can compare the career of lewis and vitali .. vitali was 31 when he fought lewis and when lewis was between teh ages of 30-32 he had a very close fight against a competent but not world class boxer coming off a loss in ray mercer, some people on this forum even think mercer won that.. he went on to face shannon briggs and ko'd him in style but was wobbled badly twice.. Now lennox won these fights but in my opinion lennox definently improved after these fights to get his career best wins v holyfield and maybe even vitali.. Lennox certainly improved after turning 30 so i dont think it is far fetched that vitali improved a lot after the fight v lennox either..


Even though i am a big klitschko fan Lewis was a greta boxer and I do not know if vitali would have ever beaten him, obviously i believe he could have though !

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Originally Posted by palmerq

I am a big corey sanders fan .. but i think people are getting a bit carried away with his actual abilty... he beat wlad fair and square, wladimir was young and got ko'd.. Wladimir has definently improved since then, and fights a lot smarter now, it is strange to think(looking at the way he boxes now) but back in his earlier pro days he was very aggresive and it cost him.. Sanders was a pretty good guy, very tough and hit hard.... but he was a complete wild man who did not defend himself at all, he was very easy to hit.. He's a good opponent for a lot of guys but he was not at the top level in my opinion... Him v haye prime for prime would be a very interesting fight... I think haye would have ko'd him, but sanders had long arms he could have sent him to the floor just as easy.. Anyway sanders was great fun to watch and underrated but he was never that great.

as for vitali being in his prime when he face lewis... maybe we can compare the career of lewis and vitali .. vitali was 31 when he fought lewis and when lewis was between teh ages of 30-32 he had a very close fight against a competent but not world class boxer coming off a loss in ray mercer, some people on this forum even think mercer won that.. he went on to face shannon briggs and ko'd him in style but was wobbled badly twice.. Now lennox won these fights but in my opinion lennox definently improved after these fights to get his career best wins v holyfield and maybe even vitali.. Lennox certainly improved after turning 30 so i dont think it is far fetched that vitali improved a lot after the fight v lennox either..


Even though i am a big klitschko fan Lewis was a greta boxer and I do not know if vitali would have ever beaten him, obviously i believe he could have though !

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And this @palmerq is pretty much EXACTLY my opinion on these issues in total. Respect!

I am fan of both boxers and believe they are not far removed as either side tries to sell.

As for Sander's you are right about his defense and wild style and that's precisely why he was was not a great fighter. What I would call him was a very DANGEROUS fighter because on a given night he had very high potential to cause an upset because of his unique qualities, but he could also be beaten soundly as well. You mean "Corrie" Sander's not "Corey", they are different boxers.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

You mean "Corrie" Sander's not "Corey", they are different boxers.

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yes you are right there... i got that one wrong completley S: i meant the south african corey.... he was just great fun to watch, I do think if he was a better looking man and not from an obscure boxing country then he would have been a fairly big star(with a few more losses on his record but it would have been fun!)

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Jesus, listen ross. The WBC nolonger allows you to carry other titles. Defending all the belts is quite literally impossible! It's not a matter of want to or difficulty, it's impossible. So stop saying it.

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Floyd Mayweather?

Belts don't really mean much its the man who beat the man that has the Lineal champ titles defenses i think he is talking about really. Wald wbo is just kinda me and sure Louis comp was not greatest but he did beat the champ and defend it 25 times in a row. Wald when he fought the best rated fighter under him then he was champ after that. I think he has like 10 defenses when there was no one that was top dog and his Brother was not fighting pretty much his bro fucked things up for him.

Well no the lineal champ does not much either to declare who the best boxer is either. What if the lineal champ has a bad night and loses to a lesser fighter who had a great night? That does F/A to make him worthy.

There's no hard and fast way but common sense says the more belts the better because the more top opponents in championship fights you had to fight to get them and defend them (duh).

The Ring title might not always be accurate but it does the best job at singling out who the REAL champ ought to be imo.

As for the lineal champ, some examples would be Buster Douglas beating Tyson doesn't make him greater than Tyson.

When Tyson unified the belts, Spinks... SPINKS! had the friggin lineal title!!!

George Foreman won the lineal title from Moorer (who imo was lesser than Holyfield who he won it from to start) and held it until Briggs, when we all know the best boxer at that time was by far Lennox Lewis whom Foreman would not even fight!

Wladimir holds all major belts besides WBC (yes, WBO although having a shaky beginning, IS a major title and today is regarded as such, look to lower weight ranges!) He also holds some minor titles and is recognised by The Ring, and to any sane person in boxing is also the lineal champ.

Get over it guys.. Wladimir is beyond doubt the greatest 200+ HW champ of ALL TIME on paper and soon enough will be the greatest HW champ of all time, in terms of achievement.. completely!

Facts!

How can he be when does not face the best man that was in his era just can not deal with that. I was talking about his wbo before getting wasted by Sanders not meaning much. His Brother coming back fucked up his title reign because he was not fight the best guy in the division.

Well actually it did mean a lot if you ask me. At that time ppl considered Wladimir the better brother (even though I think it was Vitali). And they also considered Wladimir the top dog in the division. WBO or not, THAT was the established champion in most ppl's heads. The Vitali/Lewis fight, The Sanders/Wladimir fight and the subsequent Sanders/Vitali fight let Wlad down but that's retroactive thinking.

You cannot just decide that based on what happened later that Wlad's championship wins as WBO champ then don't count. It did then!

He was not the top guy though Lewis was he picked up a trinket big deal then went on lose to Sanders and Brewster after words. Now in his comeback he then was consdier the man and yea now his titles mean something when defending them. Unfortunately his brother shows up and now its fucked again you know why because they won't fight. So tell me who in the histroy of boxing that is in the top ten list did not fight the best possible guys they could. I know love the Brothers they are great and all but them being combined champions is going to hurt them more then help because then won't ever fight.

So i think i am pretty much right when saying that Lewis was the best so Wald defending a wbo belt was kinda just meh means nothing really. Also you can not argue with ranking a man when he did not fight the best person in his era with is his Brother kinda fucked it up for him really.

Yeah ok I guess I did not think that one through did I lol, Lewis was the top guy at the time you are right.

I'd still not knock Wlad's WBO belt defences off the list myself. I consider picking up any major title and defending it legitimate.

Otherwise you have to do the same for all other boxers who've been in that situation of not holding all the belts and no I don't single out the WBO either as not being major.

That Wladimir and Vitali didn't fight I can pass, they are brothers, they can't help that, that shouldn't preclude them from boxing greatness. They each fought their fair share of the toughest opponents on the planet, that's what counts for me.

Sure you'll point to collaboration etc playing up to each others strengths in opponent selection but really over a whole career that's not really possible, they both had mandatories.

If you want to set Wladimir back several fights from Louis over the earlier WBO defences go ahead but to me they are as legitimate as Lewis's first WBC belt and defences he was gifted by Bowe.

All i am going to say is that when Louis, Ali, and Holmes were champs they were seen as the champs. Wald was not champ or seen as one in the first run. After the Bryde rematch and Samuel Peters fight he was then the man. Then his brother comes back he is not really the man anymore because he is not fighting the best guy in his era. Say what you want about weight and all but at least the guys in the top ten fought the best there was Wald has not regardless has to be down graded for it. Holyfeild has a few loses but he fought fucking every one and most of his loses were after his 40's, Tyson fought everyone, and Lewis fought everyone and avenged his loses, but the brothers split there shit up and never fought one another they kinda fucked up. Shit most people consider them the same person hard to judge if they never fight its a big problem dude.

Alright I'm going to give this to you, those past champions were considered "the champ" in their title fights or straight away thereafter (i.e. Ali vs Foreman etc). Whereas Wladimir was for instance not considered the top dog for earlier defences.

I guess there will be many different levels of what the set record is.

I think "performance in world title fights" as I refer to is applicable, you see further criteria that penalises many boxers but particularly the brothers. This is exactly what I was referring to at the start of this thread, the closer Wlad gets to the record, the further detractors will attempt to push the boundary out.

Well I have a cherry picked statistic of my own too, one that I feel is more relevant than all others.

Performance in 200+ World title fights.. What we would TODAY consider HW!

It's then clear that no matter how you spin it, Wladimir tops with Louis a distant 7th place!

What do you think of that record!

Well a heavyweight today is different then it was 60 years ago my friend i don't take that into account. The fact is he was a heavyweight and the guys he fought were consider heavies. I would say if they had all the shit we have today to make you stronger and bigger they might do just as well. I think the fact that for so much of Wald title reign he was not consider the man mostly because of his brother. Should he get a pass and not be put down notch for not fighting the best there was. All those guys on the list fought the best people they could i sure as shit don't have Jack Dempsey there he would not fight black people which is bullshit and fucks his legacy up because he did not fight the best. There has never been a top 10 champ who did not face the best there was until you get to the brothers i am not saying its fair but it effects it for me.