deontay's power always seemed overrated to me. there's a reason he targeted tyson on the comeback trail over aj
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deontay's power always seemed overrated to me. there's a reason he targeted tyson on the comeback trail over aj
queensbury over matchroom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42v_Xiip13c
nick ball on a nice little run
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPE3HISX...jpg&name=small
Wilder was fun while he lasted. He did give us some great KO highlights we will never forget.
A good and fair article here that sums up Wilder .......
Accidental champion Deontay Wilder was the American dream misunderstood | Deontay Wilder | The Guardian
The thing is, AJ dick riders will use this as an excuse to say AJ was better and would have beaten Wilder. But I contend the 2016/2017 Wilder would have knocked AJ spark out. Like he did Fury in the first fight, just that AJ would not have gotten up.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Deontay Wilder's greatest performances were against the greatest British heavyweight of all time Tyson Fury who took all the steam out of him over the course of three fights and vice versa just like Ali and Frazier destroyed each other over the course of three fights and whenever the same again, Tyson Fury will never be the same again after the beating and the pounding that he took from Deontay Wilder. But Deontay Wilder definitely we all knew the way he hit the deck in the third fight against Tyson Fury would never ever be the same again because a human body just cannot take that sort of pounding and sledgehammering and ever come back to be the same as it was.
Ironically in his two and a half defeats to Tyson Fury we saw the best of him and he was pretty damn good even if he would never be an all-time great.
Wilder has the worse foot work I've ever seen from a HW champ. He keeps his legs wide apart for power. you keep them close together for movement. he keeps his legs wild apart and tries to fight off his back foot. He has never gotten any better over the years. Now he has become a clown a side show. Time to do something else.
Absolutely agree. He has shown really no improvement except in the third fight with Tyson Fury for the first three or four rounds he did show a change in style with those hard jabs to the body. He just didn't stick with it for some reason. But that was the biggest difference I've seen in this guy ever over the course of 10 years and it just only lasted three or four rounds and then he went back to the same stuff. And I hate the way he rubs his wrists and forearms right before he is going to throw a haymaker. That is even worse than telegraphing your punches. It's like when Primo or tic posts on the forumQuote:
Originally Posted by mrbig1
you're just a casual. deontay should have stayed with mark breland. he worked with what deontay had. bringing in mailk scott was a terrible decisionQuote:
Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBellAbsolutely agree. He has shown really no improvement except in the third fight with Tyson Fury for the first three or four rounds he did show a change in style with those hard jabs to the body. He just didn't stick with it for some reason. But that was the biggest difference I've seen in this guy ever over the course of 10 years and it just only lasted three or four rounds and then he went back to the same stuff. And I hate the way he rubs his wrists and forearms right before he is going to throw a haymaker. That is even worse than telegraphing your punches. It's like when Primo or tic posts on the forumQuote:
Originally Posted by mrbig1
"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.
The following post I think is much more accurate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.
But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."
Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.
So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.
But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.
Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.
I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.
It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.
deontay targeted tyson who was on the comeback trail. it was a good choice because tyson hadn't looked good in his two fights back after over two & a half years out & he still held some type of claim to being the man that beat the man. tyson should have won that fight once it got to the cards. deontay's team couldn't see that if he wasn't able to beat tyson at that point he wasn't beating a better prepared tyson in the rematch. luis was either off the peds when he fought deontay or on heart/ blood pressure medication which lead to the fight being cancelled originally. deontay even admitted that he turned down bigger money offered to fight aj to take the tyson rematch. i've always felt aj would have beaten deontay & like i said deontay's power seemed overrated to meQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.
To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.
Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.
I’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.
The following post I think is much more accurate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.
But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."
Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.
So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.
But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.
Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.
I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.
It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.
Wilder overachieved
I feel he was also overrated
Given a different ref maybe the 1st Fury is stopped
His career would be looked at differently if that happened
He won a bronze medal
He got paid well, hopefully he's been smart with his money to set up his family
He gave us some highlight reel KO's & knockdowns
I hope he steps away
If he sticks around he needs to be fighting the Mark De Mori's of the boxing world :-X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.
The following post I think is much more accurate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.
But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."
Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.
So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.
But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.
Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.
I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.
It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.
Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?
Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.
Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.
The corner of one of the fighters posted this 6 hours ago and unseen angle supposedly it is pretty interesting actually https://youtu.be/FtNpgBj0_mE?si=CNmJsycLU4cR1fz4
Wilder certainly did not see the punch :)
The other interesting thing about the clip is the amount of delusional rubbish the corner say.
I can’t copy and paste it cos I don’t know how to , but this is a tweet from Wilder at 19.09 on 31/10/2020.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.
The following post I think is much more accurate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.
But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."
Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.
So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.
But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.
Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.
I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.
It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.
Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?
Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.
Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.
“ When that fight was a draw, I told you that I would give you a rematch. You know I was offered more money to fight Joshua than I was getting to fight you. Again being a man of my word, I fought you
like I said I would...”
clear as day , it’s down to Wilder why the fight never happened , nobody else.
Or perhaps when they were in negotiations and Wilder said he was “offering AJ” , when in fact Wilder was having an elbow op.
Anyway , see what you want to see, but Wilder got found out and never recovered.
AJ got found out by Ruiz and put it right , and got found out by Usyk and when straight back in with him.
And although he was beaten by the better man again, yes he had a meltdown in the ring immediately after, but what has he done since ? Everything possible to put himself in contention.
The more Wilder gets slated, the more impressive his accomplishments become. A tough man, with a big punch who came to boxing late out of necessity. Olympian and World champion. I wish I was as shit at something as Wilder is at boxing.
I can't for the life of me understand how or why people kept trying to change him, when he showed no sign of being receptive. In the words of Paulie. He's a bruiser he ain't no boxer. Work with what you've got.
it proves that both deontay & tyson chose to fight each other instead of the perceived best guy in the division. deontay went after tyson who was on the comeback trail & tyson chose to fight deontay who held one belt both instead of going after the guy who held three belts & was seen as number one in the division. no need to spin anything that's what happened. tyson could of saved us by chosing aj instead. the big bad monster for me was the guy rated number one who held three of the four major belts. had deontay & tyson been willing to take the challenge of the number one rated guy who held three belts, they were both perfectly capable of making it happenQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.
The following post I think is much more accurate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.
But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."
Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.
So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.
But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.
Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.
I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.
It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.
Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?
Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.
Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Utterly delusional rubbish it's one of the first things I thought when I heard it. What on Earth are they thinking? Move your hand just a little bit? Move your hand slightly? Over and over the same thing. What on Earth are they talking about? Why only this?
I got nothing bad to say about wilder. He's a banger. He launched atomic missiles for years and smoked guys and disturbing ways. Some of those guys were twitching. So the guy has power for sure I just don't know why he didn't unleash that power in his last fight. I didn't see one knockout punch even attempted the way he used to do it. I used to call him the atomic windmill. He didn't even try any of that windmill stuff. Too cautious probably because of the knockout at the hands of the Gypsy King. I hope he fights just one more time and gets a decent performance and then maybe he can call it quits. Nothing bad to say about the guy. He brought excitement
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI can’t copy and paste it cos I don’t know how to , but this is a tweet from Wilder at 19.09 on 31/10/2020.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.
The following post I think is much more accurate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.
But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."
Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.
So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.
But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.
Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.
I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.
It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.
Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?
Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.
Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.
“ When that fight was a draw, I told you that I would give you a rematch. You know I was offered more money to fight Joshua than I was getting to fight you. Again being a man of my word, I fought you
like I said I would...”
clear as day , it’s down to Wilder why the fight never happened , nobody else.
Or perhaps when they were in negotiations and Wilder said he was “offering AJ” , when in fact Wilder was having an elbow op.
Anyway , see what you want to see, but Wilder got found out and never recovered.
AJ got found out by Ruiz and put it right , and got found out by Usyk and when straight back in with him.
And although he was beaten by the better man again, yes he had a meltdown in the ring immediately after, but what has he done since ? Everything possible to put himself in contention.
Oh so you're referring to AFTER Wilder had fought Fury the first time. As long as we understand each other. :cool:
So just to be clear, you're not pushing the "Wilder was ducking Joshua" rubbish angle.
Good.
Beyond that, I don't see anything you wrote which contradicts anything I've written.
I clearly stated that Wilder and Joshua have gone in opposite directions since then.
If it makes you feel better to say it in your own words, that's cool. :cool:
My point remains.
Claims that Wilder may have ducked (or been afraid to fight) Joshua are groundless and unsubstantiated. To be fair, the other way around can't be proven either.
Had Wilder and Joshua met when they were SUPPOSED to, IMHO it would've been a 50/50 fight.
Wilder was not yet damaged... and Joshua's style was not all wrong for Wilder.
Nothing more need be said.
:)
Realized again that one of the more enjoyable tools here are the "similar topics" threads below and search feature. All I can say is I cannot deny being consistently skeptical and at times harsh on ol Wilder ;D:-X. Really like looking back for some perspective and how far we've come when it comes to looking at Wilder and what developed. This was after his first defense vs Eric Molina and really the kick off of his 'peakish' ferocity and highlights. With hindsight I really ask myself if his most impressive win...overall, as far as looking complete and working things out and using skills...was his title winning performance in Stiverne I. He dominated really and was not getting his head boxed off before a from behind ko. Ironically the only fight he won on the cards. Also have to say it was never a personal tear down on him but more so the almost favoritism and going out of the way to maneuver him along. A number of title challengers literally ranked nowhere near the top ten or teens shortly before defense, and then magically shot up the charts by the wbc in order to pass mustard and push the hype. And frankly the "want a body on my record" never sat well. But do hope he genuinely takes some time not only as a fighter but mainly as a husband, father and man to evaluate a course and where his road now leads. No need to get hammered out again though at the highest level. https://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfo...ilder-now.html
Round 12 of Ball vs Ford had me on my feet with excitement. I was expecting Dubois to quit again. I am pleased he showed heart. I wonder if the fight had continued & gone into the late rounds what might have happened. Hrgovic also showed a granite chin. Wilder's team shouldn't have put him in with Zhang. How do we compare the two careers? Is Zhang's power better? He has better technique but is very slow
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI can’t copy and paste it cos I don’t know how to , but this is a tweet from Wilder at 19.09 on 31/10/2020.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.
The following post I think is much more accurate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.
But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."
Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.
So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.
But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.
Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.
I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.
It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.
Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?
Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.
Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.
“ When that fight was a draw, I told you that I would give you a rematch. You know I was offered more money to fight Joshua than I was getting to fight you. Again being a man of my word, I fought you
like I said I would...”
clear as day , it’s down to Wilder why the fight never happened , nobody else.
Or perhaps when they were in negotiations and Wilder said he was “offering AJ” , when in fact Wilder was having an elbow op.
Anyway , see what you want to see, but Wilder got found out and never recovered.
AJ got found out by Ruiz and put it right , and got found out by Usyk and when straight back in with him.
And although he was beaten by the better man again, yes he had a meltdown in the ring immediately after, but what has he done since ? Everything possible to put himself in contention.
Oh so you're referring to AFTER Wilder had fought Fury the first time. As long as we understand each other. :cool:
So just to be clear, you're not pushing the "Wilder was ducking Joshua" rubbish angle.
Good.
Beyond that, I don't see anything you wrote which contradicts anything I've written.
I clearly stated that Wilder and Joshua have gone in opposite directions since then.
If it makes you feel better to say it in your own words, that's cool. :cool:
My point remains.
Claims that Wilder may have ducked (or been afraid to fight) Joshua are groundless and unsubstantiated. To be fair, the other way around can't be proven either.
Had Wilder and Joshua met when they were SUPPOSED to, IMHO it would've been a 50/50 fight.
Wilder was not yet damaged... and Joshua's style was not all wrong for Wilder.
Nothing more need be said.
:)
I don't believe Joshua has ever ducked anyone. There are names on his record both Fury and Wilder avoided. Both Fury and Wilder absolutely ducked Joshua. I don't think you can credibly deny that anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanzQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI can’t copy and paste it cos I don’t know how to , but this is a tweet from Wilder at 19.09 on 31/10/2020.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.
The following post I think is much more accurate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.
But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."
Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.
So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.
But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.
Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.
I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.
It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.
Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?
Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.
Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.
“ When that fight was a draw, I told you that I would give you a rematch. You know I was offered more money to fight Joshua than I was getting to fight you. Again being a man of my word, I fought you
like I said I would...”
clear as day , it’s down to Wilder why the fight never happened , nobody else.
Or perhaps when they were in negotiations and Wilder said he was “offering AJ” , when in fact Wilder was having an elbow op.
Anyway , see what you want to see, but Wilder got found out and never recovered.
AJ got found out by Ruiz and put it right , and got found out by Usyk and when straight back in with him.
And although he was beaten by the better man again, yes he had a meltdown in the ring immediately after, but what has he done since ? Everything possible to put himself in contention.
Oh so you're referring to AFTER Wilder had fought Fury the first time. As long as we understand each other. :cool:
So just to be clear, you're not pushing the "Wilder was ducking Joshua" rubbish angle.
Good.
Beyond that, I don't see anything you wrote which contradicts anything I've written.
I clearly stated that Wilder and Joshua have gone in opposite directions since then.
If it makes you feel better to say it in your own words, that's cool. :cool:
My point remains.
Claims that Wilder may have ducked (or been afraid to fight) Joshua are groundless and unsubstantiated. To be fair, the other way around can't be proven either.
Had Wilder and Joshua met when they were SUPPOSED to, IMHO it would've been a 50/50 fight.
Wilder was not yet damaged... and Joshua's style was not all wrong for Wilder.
Nothing more need be said.
:)
I don't believe Joshua has ever ducked anyone. There are names on his record both Fury and Wilder avoided. Both Fury and Wilder absolutely ducked Joshua. I don't think you can credibly deny that anymore.
I don't believe Joshua has ever ducked anyone, either. But to categorically say Fury and Wilder ducked Joshua? Hogwash.
Why... because Wilder has plunged off the relevance cliff and because Fury has always played with less than a full deck?
None of that "proves" that either ducked Joshua.
I'm not a diehard fan of any of them, so bias doesn't come into my argument.
"Ducking" arguments are always shaky, to say the least. I suppose it's easier when both fighters are safely past each other and there's absolutely zero chance they'll ever meet.
Joshua could've made the Wilder fight happen had he really wanted it. Fact.
Fury swooped in and spared us the ongoing soap opera between Joshua and Wilder. Fact.
No one knows for certain how Joshua would've fared against that version of Wilder. Fact.
plunging off the relevance Cliff for sure. Let's all ask ourselves how well this went
https://youtube.com/shorts/Ucvetds53...ewpsfzNPqxiHw6
Joshua only ever really looked good against 41-year-old Klitschko let's be honest. That much earlier version of wilder would have smoked Little AnthonyQuote:
Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell
Believe what you want to believe and read the bits you want and ignore the bits you want. But I reckon time has proved where Wilder and Joshua both are.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI can’t copy and paste it cos I don’t know how to , but this is a tweet from Wilder at 19.09 on 31/10/2020.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.
The following post I think is much more accurate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.
But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."
Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.
So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.
But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.
Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.
I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.
It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.
Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?
Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.
Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.
“ When that fight was a draw, I told you that I would give you a rematch. You know I was offered more money to fight Joshua than I was getting to fight you. Again being a man of my word, I fought you
like I said I would...”
clear as day , it’s down to Wilder why the fight never happened , nobody else.
Or perhaps when they were in negotiations and Wilder said he was “offering AJ” , when in fact Wilder was having an elbow op.
Anyway , see what you want to see, but Wilder got found out and never recovered.
AJ got found out by Ruiz and put it right , and got found out by Usyk and when straight back in with him.
And although he was beaten by the better man again, yes he had a meltdown in the ring immediately after, but what has he done since ? Everything possible to put himself in contention.
Oh so you're referring to AFTER Wilder had fought Fury the first time. As long as we understand each other. :cool:
So just to be clear, you're not pushing the "Wilder was ducking Joshua" rubbish angle.
Good.
Beyond that, I don't see anything you wrote which contradicts anything I've written.
I clearly stated that Wilder and Joshua have gone in opposite directions since then.
If it makes you feel better to say it in your own words, that's cool. :cool:
My point remains.
Claims that Wilder may have ducked (or been afraid to fight) Joshua are groundless and unsubstantiated. To be fair, the other way around can't be proven either.
Had Wilder and Joshua met when they were SUPPOSED to, IMHO it would've been a 50/50 fight.
Wilder was not yet damaged... and Joshua's style was not all wrong for Wilder.
Nothing more need be said.
:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraBelieve what you want to believe and read the bits you want and ignore the bits you want. But I reckon time has proved where Wilder and Joshua both are.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI can’t copy and paste it cos I don’t know how to , but this is a tweet from Wilder at 19.09 on 31/10/2020.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.
The following post I think is much more accurate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.
But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."
Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.
So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.
But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.
Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.
I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.
It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.
Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?
Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.
Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.
“ When that fight was a draw, I told you that I would give you a rematch. You know I was offered more money to fight Joshua than I was getting to fight you. Again being a man of my word, I fought you
like I said I would...”
clear as day , it’s down to Wilder why the fight never happened , nobody else.
Or perhaps when they were in negotiations and Wilder said he was “offering AJ” , when in fact Wilder was having an elbow op.
Anyway , see what you want to see, but Wilder got found out and never recovered.
AJ got found out by Ruiz and put it right , and got found out by Usyk and when straight back in with him.
And although he was beaten by the better man again, yes he had a meltdown in the ring immediately after, but what has he done since ? Everything possible to put himself in contention.
Oh so you're referring to AFTER Wilder had fought Fury the first time. As long as we understand each other. :cool:
So just to be clear, you're not pushing the "Wilder was ducking Joshua" rubbish angle.
Good.
Beyond that, I don't see anything you wrote which contradicts anything I've written.
I clearly stated that Wilder and Joshua have gone in opposite directions since then.
If it makes you feel better to say it in your own words, that's cool. :cool:
My point remains.
Claims that Wilder may have ducked (or been afraid to fight) Joshua are groundless and unsubstantiated. To be fair, the other way around can't be proven either.
Had Wilder and Joshua met when they were SUPPOSED to, IMHO it would've been a 50/50 fight.
Wilder was not yet damaged... and Joshua's style was not all wrong for Wilder.
Nothing more need be said.
:)
My English must be faulty.
I could've sworn I've said on repeated occasions that no one is disputing where "Wilder and Joshua both are" at the moment. ;)
Our main difference lies in that I filter out social media nonsense like Tweets, and 3rd party "he-said-she-saids", and reach my conclusions based on actual occurrences.
You insist that it was Wilder that ducked Joshua, and I respond by telling you it's impossible to establish who ducked whom.
Wilder and Joshua blabbed and postured a whole lot... and in the end it was Wilder and Fury who fought.
You'd have to ask Joshua himself what his thought processes were during that time.
aj was rated & seen as the number one in the division & held three of the four major belts. deontay & tyson both chose to fight someone other than the perceived number one guy. this proves both deontay & tyson chose not to fight the perceived number one guy with three of the four major belts. no bias needed as that is what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
you can't make someone fight you if they don't want to fight you. fact. what was deontay getting out of fighting tyson instead of aj? aj was seen as number one & had three of the four belts. deontay also would have made more for aj over tyson & getting a chance at three belts & the number one guy in the division
tyson swooped in to fight deontay instead of fighting the number one guy with three of the four major belts. fact. what was tyson getting out of fighting deontay instead of aj? aj was seen as number one & had three of the four belts. tyson would have made more for fighting aj over deontay & getting a chance at three belts & the number one guy in the division
no one knows how an aj v deontay fight would have gone at the time. i agree
Let's be honest about two things sfaccim'
AJ only ever really looked good against the 41-year-old Klitschko
Deontay burned himself out on three fights with Tyson
There is no doubt that if deonte had fought AJ in 2019 he would have harpooned his ass. Look what Andy Ruiz did ffs imagine Wilder before he got worn down by Tyson Fury
Quote:
Originally Posted by TICaj was rated & seen as the number one in the division & held three of the four major belts. deontay & tyson both chose to fight someone other than the perceived number one guy. this proves both deontay & tyson chose not to fight the perceived number one guy with three of the four major belts. no bias needed as that is what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
you can't make someone fight you if they don't want to fight you. fact. what was deontay getting out of fighting tyson instead of aj? aj was seen as number one & had three of the four belts. deontay also would have made more for aj over tyson & getting a chance at three belts & the number one guy in the division
tyson swooped in to fight deontay instead of fighting the number one guy with three of the four major belts. fact. what was tyson getting out of fighting deontay instead of aj? aj was seen as number one & had three of the four belts. tyson would have made more for fighting aj over deontay & getting a chance at three belts & the number one guy in the division
no one knows how an aj v deontay fight would have gone at the time. i agree
"Choosing to fight someone else" does not automatically equate to "ducking."
There are many intricacies involved. Discussions, thought processes, demands, conditions, etc, etc.
None of us, no matter how badly we want to claim insight into fighters' heads, can claim to have the "inside scoop."
When "ducks" are obvious, they're obvious.
Wilder and Joshua were involved in long, drawn-out negotiations. If memory serves me correctly (and I'm not one to be interested in the bickering aspect of boxing), Joshua's initial offerings to Wilder were ridiculous.
At some point yes, they were improved.
Wilder-Fury was much easier to make.
What proof do you have that both Wilder and Fury were scared to fight Joshua so they fought each other instead?
I didn't think so.
where did i say ducking? did deontay or tyson choose to fight the perceived number one guy in the division with three of the four major belts? can you please provide a source for these ridiculous offers from team aj & a source for what they improved to? deontay v tyson may have been easier to make but my argument is not about how easy a fight is to make it is about who was seen as the top guy in the division & who deontay & tyson chose to fight instead. where did i say deontay or tyson were scared? the fact is they didn't fight the perceived number one guy in the division with three of the four major beltsQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by TICaj was rated & seen as the number one in the division & held three of the four major belts. deontay & tyson both chose to fight someone other than the perceived number one guy. this proves both deontay & tyson chose not to fight the perceived number one guy with three of the four major belts. no bias needed as that is what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
you can't make someone fight you if they don't want to fight you. fact. what was deontay getting out of fighting tyson instead of aj? aj was seen as number one & had three of the four belts. deontay also would have made more for aj over tyson & getting a chance at three belts & the number one guy in the division
tyson swooped in to fight deontay instead of fighting the number one guy with three of the four major belts. fact. what was tyson getting out of fighting deontay instead of aj? aj was seen as number one & had three of the four belts. tyson would have made more for fighting aj over deontay & getting a chance at three belts & the number one guy in the division
no one knows how an aj v deontay fight would have gone at the time. i agree
"Choosing to fight someone else" does not automatically equate to "ducking."
Wilder and Joshua were involved in long, drawn-out negotiations. If memory serves me correctly (and I'm not one to be interested in the bickering aspect of boxing), Joshua's initial offerings to Wilder were ridiculous.
At some point yes, they were improved.
Wilder-Fury was much easier to make.
What proof do you have that both Wilder and Fury were scared to fight Joshua so they fought each other instead?
I didn't think so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TICwhere did i say ducking? did deontay or tyson choose to fight the perceived number one guy in the division with three of the four major belts? can you please provide a source for these ridiculous offers from team aj & a source for what they improved to? deontay v tyson may have been easier to make but my argument is not about how easy a fight is to make it is about who was seen as the top guy in the division & who deontay & tyson chose to fight instead. where did i say deontay or tyson were scared? the fact is they didn't fight the perceived number one guy in the division with three of the four major beltsQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by TICaj was rated & seen as the number one in the division & held three of the four major belts. deontay & tyson both chose to fight someone other than the perceived number one guy. this proves both deontay & tyson chose not to fight the perceived number one guy with three of the four major belts. no bias needed as that is what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
you can't make someone fight you if they don't want to fight you. fact. what was deontay getting out of fighting tyson instead of aj? aj was seen as number one & had three of the four belts. deontay also would have made more for aj over tyson & getting a chance at three belts & the number one guy in the division
tyson swooped in to fight deontay instead of fighting the number one guy with three of the four major belts. fact. what was tyson getting out of fighting deontay instead of aj? aj was seen as number one & had three of the four belts. tyson would have made more for fighting aj over deontay & getting a chance at three belts & the number one guy in the division
no one knows how an aj v deontay fight would have gone at the time. i agree
"Choosing to fight someone else" does not automatically equate to "ducking."
Wilder and Joshua were involved in long, drawn-out negotiations. If memory serves me correctly (and I'm not one to be interested in the bickering aspect of boxing), Joshua's initial offerings to Wilder were ridiculous.
At some point yes, they were improved.
Wilder-Fury was much easier to make.
What proof do you have that both Wilder and Fury were scared to fight Joshua so they fought each other instead?
I didn't think so.
No argument then. You're not the one claiming "ducking." You're not the one implying that Deontay was "scared."
We agree that Joshua was the perceived number one in the division at the time.
We also agree that no one knows how Wilder vs Joshua would've ended at the time.
so no sources on those offers? the fact is both deontay & tyson chose to fight each other instead of the perceived number one in the division at the time who held three of the four major beltsQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by TICwhere did i say ducking? did deontay or tyson choose to fight the perceived number one guy in the division with three of the four major belts? can you please provide a source for these ridiculous offers from team aj & a source for what they improved to? deontay v tyson may have been easier to make but my argument is not about how easy a fight is to make it is about who was seen as the top guy in the division & who deontay & tyson chose to fight instead. where did i say deontay or tyson were scared? the fact is they didn't fight the perceived number one guy in the division with three of the four major beltsQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by TICaj was rated & seen as the number one in the division & held three of the four major belts. deontay & tyson both chose to fight someone other than the perceived number one guy. this proves both deontay & tyson chose not to fight the perceived number one guy with three of the four major belts. no bias needed as that is what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
you can't make someone fight you if they don't want to fight you. fact. what was deontay getting out of fighting tyson instead of aj? aj was seen as number one & had three of the four belts. deontay also would have made more for aj over tyson & getting a chance at three belts & the number one guy in the division
tyson swooped in to fight deontay instead of fighting the number one guy with three of the four major belts. fact. what was tyson getting out of fighting deontay instead of aj? aj was seen as number one & had three of the four belts. tyson would have made more for fighting aj over deontay & getting a chance at three belts & the number one guy in the division
no one knows how an aj v deontay fight would have gone at the time. i agree
"Choosing to fight someone else" does not automatically equate to "ducking."
Wilder and Joshua were involved in long, drawn-out negotiations. If memory serves me correctly (and I'm not one to be interested in the bickering aspect of boxing), Joshua's initial offerings to Wilder were ridiculous.
At some point yes, they were improved.
Wilder-Fury was much easier to make.
What proof do you have that both Wilder and Fury were scared to fight Joshua so they fought each other instead?
I didn't think so.
No argument then. You're not the one claiming "ducking." You're not the one implying that Deontay was "scared."
We agree that Joshua was the perceived number one in the division at the time.
We also agree that no one knows how Wilder vs Joshua would've ended at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TICso no sources on those offers? the fact is both deontay & tyson chose to fight each other instead of the perceived number one in the division at the time who held three of the four major beltsQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by TICwhere did i say ducking? did deontay or tyson choose to fight the perceived number one guy in the division with three of the four major belts? can you please provide a source for these ridiculous offers from team aj & a source for what they improved to? deontay v tyson may have been easier to make but my argument is not about how easy a fight is to make it is about who was seen as the top guy in the division & who deontay & tyson chose to fight instead. where did i say deontay or tyson were scared? the fact is they didn't fight the perceived number one guy in the division with three of the four major beltsQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by TICaj was rated & seen as the number one in the division & held three of the four major belts. deontay & tyson both chose to fight someone other than the perceived number one guy. this proves both deontay & tyson chose not to fight the perceived number one guy with three of the four major belts. no bias needed as that is what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
you can't make someone fight you if they don't want to fight you. fact. what was deontay getting out of fighting tyson instead of aj? aj was seen as number one & had three of the four belts. deontay also would have made more for aj over tyson & getting a chance at three belts & the number one guy in the division
tyson swooped in to fight deontay instead of fighting the number one guy with three of the four major belts. fact. what was tyson getting out of fighting deontay instead of aj? aj was seen as number one & had three of the four belts. tyson would have made more for fighting aj over deontay & getting a chance at three belts & the number one guy in the division
no one knows how an aj v deontay fight would have gone at the time. i agree
"Choosing to fight someone else" does not automatically equate to "ducking."
Wilder and Joshua were involved in long, drawn-out negotiations. If memory serves me correctly (and I'm not one to be interested in the bickering aspect of boxing), Joshua's initial offerings to Wilder were ridiculous.
At some point yes, they were improved.
Wilder-Fury was much easier to make.
What proof do you have that both Wilder and Fury were scared to fight Joshua so they fought each other instead?
I didn't think so.
No argument then. You're not the one claiming "ducking." You're not the one implying that Deontay was "scared."
We agree that Joshua was the perceived number one in the division at the time.
We also agree that no one knows how Wilder vs Joshua would've ended at the time.
I can't be bothered with the usual "produce sources" crap today. Take it or leave it.
I remember reading about it, and that's good enough for me.
BTW, I'm not in the mood to prolong useless arguments now.
We agree on some basic things and let's leave it at that.
Someone else was promoting the "ducking" angle, and you came into the conversation.
If you're not claiming "ducking" then there's nothing else to talk about.
Social media nonsense? The tweet was from DEONTAY WILDER. HE SAID IT HIMSELF. Case closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraBelieve what you want to believe and read the bits you want and ignore the bits you want. But I reckon time has proved where Wilder and Joshua both are.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI can’t copy and paste it cos I don’t know how to , but this is a tweet from Wilder at 19.09 on 31/10/2020.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.
The following post I think is much more accurate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.
But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."
Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.
So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.
But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.
Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.
I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.
It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.
Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?
Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.
Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.
“ When that fight was a draw, I told you that I would give you a rematch. You know I was offered more money to fight Joshua than I was getting to fight you. Again being a man of my word, I fought you
like I said I would...”
clear as day , it’s down to Wilder why the fight never happened , nobody else.
Or perhaps when they were in negotiations and Wilder said he was “offering AJ” , when in fact Wilder was having an elbow op.
Anyway , see what you want to see, but Wilder got found out and never recovered.
AJ got found out by Ruiz and put it right , and got found out by Usyk and when straight back in with him.
And although he was beaten by the better man again, yes he had a meltdown in the ring immediately after, but what has he done since ? Everything possible to put himself in contention.
Oh so you're referring to AFTER Wilder had fought Fury the first time. As long as we understand each other. :cool:
So just to be clear, you're not pushing the "Wilder was ducking Joshua" rubbish angle.
Good.
Beyond that, I don't see anything you wrote which contradicts anything I've written.
I clearly stated that Wilder and Joshua have gone in opposite directions since then.
If it makes you feel better to say it in your own words, that's cool. :cool:
My point remains.
Claims that Wilder may have ducked (or been afraid to fight) Joshua are groundless and unsubstantiated. To be fair, the other way around can't be proven either.
Had Wilder and Joshua met when they were SUPPOSED to, IMHO it would've been a 50/50 fight.
Wilder was not yet damaged... and Joshua's style was not all wrong for Wilder.
Nothing more need be said.
:)
My English must be faulty.
I could've sworn I've said on repeated occasions that no one is disputing where "Wilder and Joshua both are" at the moment. ;)
Our main difference lies in that I filter out social media nonsense like Tweets, and 3rd party "he-said-she-saids", and reach my conclusions based on actual occurrences.
You insist that it was Wilder that ducked Joshua, and I respond by telling you it's impossible to establish who ducked whom.
Wilder and Joshua blabbed and postured a whole lot... and in the end it was Wilder and Fury who fought.
You'd have to ask Joshua himself what his thought processes were during that time.
i'm just interested in the purses you read about do you remember how much was originally offered & how much they improved to? just roughly, i don't need exacts. i'm not claiming ducking but i am claiming both deontay & tyson avoided the perceived number one guy in the division at the time who held three of the four major belts to instead fight each other