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Now your at the equivalent to when Pac responds to fan who asks about drug test. Pac says hes all natural.
See....it worked, you were able to totally go off subject like Pac does. Each time I respond to something you go off on something else. Just like Arum and Pac do..
We all know Pac can fight at 140-142 with no issues. Nothing will "affect the routine" etc.... go back and read your own shit.
All I hear is rebuttals that equal excuses....same as Pac
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
LOL ;D
I expected that.
tell me which you did not get?
Quote:
Can you give an example in the history of this SPORT where the Bigger named Champion being chased in the higher weight moved down for the B-Side opponent?
Maybe you need help.
Oscar Dela Hoya did not go down to 147 to fight Manny Pacquiao. Oscar is planning to go to 147 even before Pacquiao fought Diaz. Oscar after the loss to Hopkins plans to campaigh at 147 again ;) Pls dont ask me for links :(
In my estimation Oscar plans on taking Cotto if he wins againts Margarito but Cotto lost and Pac beat Diaz.
;)
WTF??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
My reply to your post is exactly the answer to your question.
:confused:
marquez sure as hell didn't get criticized when he fought the weight drained pacquiao at 126 and 130lbs now why should manny be criticized now for fighting at his best weight? marquez is the one pursuing the fight anyway so why would you censure it if they both agreed to 144lbs and marquez seem to be satisfied with it? anyway at fight night there wouldn't be much of a difference between their weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogFirst off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by milesHaha, 1 pound! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I would be totally amazed if he were to win.
Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.
Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.
So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.
144 is horrible really.
I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?
Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?;)
The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.
I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.
Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.
The argument is pretty consistent.
Those were Pac's weights at the time just as they were those of Marquez. Pac is now a WW and Marquez still a LW.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKissermarquez sure as hell didn't get criticized when he fought the weight drained pacquiao at 126 and 130lbs now why should manny be criticized now for fighting at his best weight? marquez is the one pursuing the fight anyway so why would you censure it if they both agreed to 144lbs and marquez seem to be satisfied with it? anyway at fight night there wouldn't be much of a difference between their weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogFirst off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by milesHaha, 1 pound! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I would be totally amazed if he were to win.
Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.
Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.
So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.
144 is horrible really.
I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?
Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?;)
The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.
I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.
Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.
The argument is pretty consistent.
Nobody in their right mind would have been against a 140 compromise. There is nothing biased in that view. One goes up and one goes down and the grudge match is set up. What we now have is a fighter used to the weigh in weight and guys of this size and another who quite simply isn't.
Pac holds all the cards.
'Bunch of whiners... even "pactards";) show more composure when their man is confronted with such nondescript weight deficit!
...of course Pacquiao holds all the cards... Why would he not? He is the face of boxing right now, duh!
Where else can JMM get a night's paycheck for a guaranteed $5M, plus PPV share after sales over the 700k mark?
TBH, it is a priviledge for Marquez to get a "golden watch".
not if they're fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt. then i think there shouldn't even be a catchweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThose were Pac's weights at the time just as they were those of Marquez. Pac is now a WW and Marquez still a LW.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKissermarquez sure as hell didn't get criticized when he fought the weight drained pacquiao at 126 and 130lbs now why should manny be criticized now for fighting at his best weight? marquez is the one pursuing the fight anyway so why would you censure it if they both agreed to 144lbs and marquez seem to be satisfied with it? anyway at fight night there wouldn't be much of a difference between their weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogFirst off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by milesHaha, 1 pound! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I would be totally amazed if he were to win.
Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.
Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.
So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.
144 is horrible really.
I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?
Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?;)
The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.
I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.
Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.
The argument is pretty consistent.
Nobody in their right mind would have been against a 140 compromise. There is nothing biased in that view. One goes up and one goes down and the grudge match is set up. What we now have is a fighter used to the weigh in weight and guys of this size and another who quite simply isn't.
Pac holds all the cards.
Nardy and its 144 btw. Their is is no difference. Manny weighed 144.5 against Margarito. Marquez has no obligation to make 144 and that's what people are missing here. Weigh in at your present best even if its 138. You are the same size at fight time. Weigh in at your best and F the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by carpetrepairhouston
A Pac fan against a catch weight? I guess it's just when it's for Pac's belt. I hate catch weights too, but not only when "fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt"Quote:
Originally Posted by KKissernot if they're fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt. then i think there shouldn't even be a catchweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThose were Pac's weights at the time just as they were those of Marquez. Pac is now a WW and Marquez still a LW.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKissermarquez sure as hell didn't get criticized when he fought the weight drained pacquiao at 126 and 130lbs now why should manny be criticized now for fighting at his best weight? marquez is the one pursuing the fight anyway so why would you censure it if they both agreed to 144lbs and marquez seem to be satisfied with it? anyway at fight night there wouldn't be much of a difference between their weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogFirst off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by milesHaha, 1 pound! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I would be totally amazed if he were to win.
Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.
Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.
So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.
144 is horrible really.
I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?
Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?;)
The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.
I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.
Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.
The argument is pretty consistent.
Nobody in their right mind would have been against a 140 compromise. There is nothing biased in that view. One goes up and one goes down and the grudge match is set up. What we now have is a fighter used to the weigh in weight and guys of this size and another who quite simply isn't.
Pac holds all the cards.
where does it say that if you're a pac fan you're automatically stupid? i've always been consistent with the catchweight thing for a title belt. you can search my views on the pac-cotto catchweight fight. but i guess now that the shoe is on the other foot noone is making an issue out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMASUXA Pac fan against a catch weight? I guess it's just when it's for Pac's belt. I hate catch weights too, but not only when "fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt"Quote:
Originally Posted by KKissernot if they're fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt. then i think there shouldn't even be a catchweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThose were Pac's weights at the time just as they were those of Marquez. Pac is now a WW and Marquez still a LW.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKissermarquez sure as hell didn't get criticized when he fought the weight drained pacquiao at 126 and 130lbs now why should manny be criticized now for fighting at his best weight? marquez is the one pursuing the fight anyway so why would you censure it if they both agreed to 144lbs and marquez seem to be satisfied with it? anyway at fight night there wouldn't be much of a difference between their weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogFirst off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by milesHaha, 1 pound! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I would be totally amazed if he were to win.
Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.
Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.
So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.
144 is horrible really.
I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?
Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?;)
The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.
I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.
Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.
The argument is pretty consistent.
Nobody in their right mind would have been against a 140 compromise. There is nothing biased in that view. One goes up and one goes down and the grudge match is set up. What we now have is a fighter used to the weigh in weight and guys of this size and another who quite simply isn't.
Pac holds all the cards.
That's because nobody (thank God) believes that piece of jewelry means anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisserwhere does it say that if you're a pac fan you're automatically stupid? i've always been consistent with the catchweight thing for a title belt. you can search my views on the pac-cotto catchweight fight. but i guess now that the shoe is on the other foot noone is making an issue out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMASUXA Pac fan against a catch weight? I guess it's just when it's for Pac's belt. I hate catch weights too, but not only when "fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt"Quote:
Originally Posted by KKissernot if they're fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt. then i think there shouldn't even be a catchweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThose were Pac's weights at the time just as they were those of Marquez. Pac is now a WW and Marquez still a LW.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKissermarquez sure as hell didn't get criticized when he fought the weight drained pacquiao at 126 and 130lbs now why should manny be criticized now for fighting at his best weight? marquez is the one pursuing the fight anyway so why would you censure it if they both agreed to 144lbs and marquez seem to be satisfied with it? anyway at fight night there wouldn't be much of a difference between their weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogFirst off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by milesHaha, 1 pound! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I would be totally amazed if he were to win.
Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.
Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.
So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.
144 is horrible really.
I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?
Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?;)
The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.
I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.
Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.
The argument is pretty consistent.
Nobody in their right mind would have been against a 140 compromise. There is nothing biased in that view. One goes up and one goes down and the grudge match is set up. What we now have is a fighter used to the weigh in weight and guys of this size and another who quite simply isn't.
Pac holds all the cards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThat's because nobody (thank God) believes that piece of jewelry means anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisserwhere does it say that if you're a pac fan you're automatically stupid? i've always been consistent with the catchweight thing for a title belt. you can search my views on the pac-cotto catchweight fight. but i guess now that the shoe is on the other foot noone is making an issue out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMASUXA Pac fan against a catch weight? I guess it's just when it's for Pac's belt. I hate catch weights too, but not only when "fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt"Quote:
Originally Posted by KKissernot if they're fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt. then i think there shouldn't even be a catchweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThose were Pac's weights at the time just as they were those of Marquez. Pac is now a WW and Marquez still a LW.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKissermarquez sure as hell didn't get criticized when he fought the weight drained pacquiao at 126 and 130lbs now why should manny be criticized now for fighting at his best weight? marquez is the one pursuing the fight anyway so why would you censure it if they both agreed to 144lbs and marquez seem to be satisfied with it? anyway at fight night there wouldn't be much of a difference between their weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogFirst off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by milesHaha, 1 pound! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I would be totally amazed if he were to win.
Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.
Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.
So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.
144 is horrible really.
I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?
Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?;)
The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.
I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.
Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.
The argument is pretty consistent.
Nobody in their right mind would have been against a 140 compromise. There is nothing biased in that view. One goes up and one goes down and the grudge match is set up. What we now have is a fighter used to the weigh in weight and guys of this size and another who quite simply isn't.
Pac holds all the cards.
Jewelry means everything to Pac and his fans for him to have a title in another division..... Even if it means making up his own rules....hence the Margo fight...sure Pac has a title or did at 154lbs.... he weighed 144.5 and Margo 150 If that jewelry means nothing which it doesn't because the fight had a "Catch" then Pac fans should dock a division off his belt when bragging about how many titles in how many divisions he's won.
well it certainly felt like it meant something to a lot of people before when they belligerently argued that pacquiao shouldn't be fighting for it at a catchweight. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThat's because nobody (thank God) believes that piece of jewelry means anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiwhere does it say that if you're a pac fan you're automatically stupid? i've always been consistent with the catchweight thing for a title belt. you can search my views on the pac-cotto catchweight fight. but i guess now that the shoe is on the other foot noone is making an issue out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisserA Pac fan against a catch weight? I guess it's just when it's for Pac's belt. I hate catch weights too, but not only when "fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt"Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisser
i don't think a title especially a world title should be on the line if a fight is fought at a catchweight, but in this case i'll probably make an exception coz it'll make for a more interesting match and the powers that be already made a mockery of the title division championships anyways.
Manny is the only fighter in history to win four lineal championships (112, 126, 130 and 140). The rest of the junk jewelry is just that, junk jewelry.Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThat's because nobody (thank God) believes that piece of jewelry means anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisserwhere does it say that if you're a pac fan you're automatically stupid? i've always been consistent with the catchweight thing for a title belt. you can search my views on the pac-cotto catchweight fight. but i guess now that the shoe is on the other foot noone is making an issue out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMASUXA Pac fan against a catch weight? I guess it's just when it's for Pac's belt. I hate catch weights too, but not only when "fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt"Quote:
Originally Posted by KKissernot if they're fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt. then i think there shouldn't even be a catchweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThose were Pac's weights at the time just as they were those of Marquez. Pac is now a WW and Marquez still a LW.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKissermarquez sure as hell didn't get criticized when he fought the weight drained pacquiao at 126 and 130lbs now why should manny be criticized now for fighting at his best weight? marquez is the one pursuing the fight anyway so why would you censure it if they both agreed to 144lbs and marquez seem to be satisfied with it? anyway at fight night there wouldn't be much of a difference between their weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogFirst off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by milesHaha, 1 pound! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I would be totally amazed if he were to win.
Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.
Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.
So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.
144 is horrible really.
I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?
Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?;)
The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.
I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.
Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.
The argument is pretty consistent.
Nobody in their right mind would have been against a 140 compromise. There is nothing biased in that view. One goes up and one goes down and the grudge match is set up. What we now have is a fighter used to the weigh in weight and guys of this size and another who quite simply isn't.
Pac holds all the cards.
Jewelry means everything to Pac and his fans for him to have a title in another division..... Even if it means making up his own rules....hence the Margo fight...sure Pac has a title or did at 154lbs.... he weighed 144.5 and Margo 150 If that jewelry means nothing which it doesn't because the fight had a "Catch" then Pac fans should dock a division off his belt when bragging about how many titles in how many divisions he's won.
Sorry, I can't account for chowderheads :)Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisserwell it certainly felt like it meant something to a lot of people before when they belligerently argued that pacquiao shouldn't be fighting for it at a catchweight. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThat's because nobody (thank God) believes that piece of jewelry means anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiwhere does it say that if you're a pac fan you're automatically stupid? i've always been consistent with the catchweight thing for a title belt. you can search my views on the pac-cotto catchweight fight. but i guess now that the shoe is on the other foot noone is making an issue out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisserA Pac fan against a catch weight? I guess it's just when it's for Pac's belt. I hate catch weights too, but not only when "fighting for pacs wbo welterweight belt"Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisser
i don't think a title especially a world title should be on the line if a fight is fought at a catchweight, but in this case i'll probably make an exception coz it'll make for a more interesting match and the powers that be already made a mockery of the title division championships anyways.