Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Well Tyson crushing cans few ok fighters and atg who was past his beast does not mean he could beat a elite fighter. I mean he lost to Douglas for fuck sake Wlad lost to people who he should not have either. I mean Wlad may not have fought great fighters so its kinda of a unknown. Tyson Has fought greats like Holyfeild and Lewis but those fighters crushed him. I never seen fighter ranked so high on some people list with out the resume to back it up. Ali, Foreman, Lewis and Holyfeild beat great fighters and were competitive for a long time thats what made them great.
Ali is "great" because he beat Frazier who was "great" because he beat Ali.
This BS about fighting "great" fighters is overstated. Who the hell did Holmes beat to be considered "great"? Why is Holyfield "great"? Because he has a 26-10 record as a heavyweight? A JOURNEYMAN record?? If his best win is against Tyson, who is a bum, then why is he great?
Post prison Tyson "losing" to Holyfield and to Lewis when he was a walking zombie doesn't mean anything. Tyson beat Michael Spinks, the greatest LHW ever ... he also beat Holmes, who is supposed to be "great" according to you.
Yeah I will concede that he didn't fight in a particular special era but he beat everyone there and made a resurgence after he lost. You can't blame Tyson for things he didn't have control over. Holmes ruled over an even weaker division yet he doesn't get this kind of criticism. Holmes couldn't even become undisputed heavyweight champion in the piss poor era he fought in and made a career out of crushing CANS and a sick, Parkinson's riddled Ali. The first elite fighter he fought, in Mike Tyson, he got KTFO. His biggest win to that point was an old Ken Norton or Gerry Cooney.
If Tyson fought nothing but bums then why does Lewis have those same names on his resume? He fought even weaker versions of those bums. Holyfield couldn't even win his series with John Ruiz and lost 2 out of 3 to Riddick Bowe.
Let us put things in perspective here ... Tyson wasn't being cracked by every punch that landed on his jaw nor was he petrified of anything going near his chin like Wlad.
Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
Thing is Tyson lost to Douglas at a young age on top of the world he was a fucking 40 to 1 to win it. When has a great lost that bad to a fucking journeyman in his prime. Holyfeild was fucking 40 when he lost to Ruiz so if you want to count those loses look at what Tyson did at the end of his career. Bowie is a better win then anything Tyson has on his resume and that was Holyfeild fighting with a 40 pound weight difference. I would say Bowie, Tyson, Forman, Holmes and Moore are Holyfeilds best wins at the hw division and Tysons is Holmes and Spinks big fucking whoop. So all that time at Heavyweight and his resume ain't even Half of what Holyfeilds was so yea i rank Holyfeild higher in the hw list on being able to avenge a lose and also being able to win against top fighters of his time.
Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
He would probably be incarcerated for half of it, come out and avoid every top HW until his coke habit and taxes needed funding, get schooled by K2 and then take a supposedly easier brit (Chisora) and get cained again!
Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
I know that not everyone will agree with what I have to say but in order to be called great, we are sometimes mistaken when we call a fighter great. Everyone has great moments or in this scenario nights but very few of us can transcend these moments into an era. Great fighters are mistakenly called great for having great nights. What makes a fighter great is the training, the homework and living the lifestyle of a fighter. Some call themselves warriors but be careful because soldiers are often called warriors when they are trained for what they do and a good soldier like a good fighter is open for greatness. He does his job with the resources available to him and a renewable, mind you renewable desire each time he gets into the ring. Warriors in certain parts of history are known as mindless killers, not a good image. Know what you mean and mean what you say. In summation, yes under the wing of Rooney given all the sets of circumstances that got him there minus, Ruthless Roper and Robbing Givens, he could with training and the right coaching repeat his feats in this era because with those tools, you have fighters that care and most of all, realistic. I don't know about great but if you think back into your own life you just may find you are capable of doing better things if you had patience, education and perseverance. Champion has a good ring to it, right? Most of the contenders in the heavyweight division should fight more often because if Mike was here they'd definitely need to practice survival of the fittest. I'm not the biggest fan of Mike Tyson but his greatness was never truly fulfilled because he was distracted.
Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsebastianmiran
I know that not everyone will agree with what I have to say but in order to be called great, we are sometimes mistaken when we call a fighter great. Everyone has great moments or in this scenario nights but very few of us can transcend these moments into an era. Great fighters are mistakenly called great for having great nights. What makes a fighter great is the training, the homework and living the lifestyle of a fighter. Some call themselves warriors but be careful because soldiers are often called warriors when they are trained for what they do and a good soldier like a good fighter is open for greatness. He does his job with the resources available to him and a renewable, mind you renewable desire each time he gets into the ring. Warriors in certain parts of history are known as mindless killers, not a good image. Know what you mean and mean what you say. In summation, yes under the wing of Rooney given all the sets of circumstances that got him there minus, Ruthless Roper and Robbing Givens, he could with training and the right coaching repeat his feats in this era because with those tools, you have fighters that care and most of all, realistic. I don't know about great but if you think back into your own life you just may find you are capable of doing better things if you had patience, education and perseverance. Champion has a good ring to it, right? Most of the contenders in the heavyweight division should fight more often because if Mike was here they'd definitely need to practice survival of the fittest. I'm not the biggest fan of Mike Tyson but his greatness was never truly fulfilled because he was distracted.
Easily distracted, after Buster got through with him. Tyson became distracted by his own suspect chin.
What makes anyone think the same thing wouldn't happen again.
Suspect chin? You really do not know boxing.
Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
What are you on? His chin took bombs.
Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsebastianmiran
I know that not everyone will agree with what I have to say but in order to be called great, we are sometimes mistaken when we call a fighter great. Everyone has great moments or in this scenario nights but very few of us can transcend these moments into an era. Great fighters are mistakenly called great for having great nights. What makes a fighter great is the training, the homework and living the lifestyle of a fighter. Some call themselves warriors but be careful because soldiers are often called warriors when they are trained for what they do and a good soldier like a good fighter is open for greatness. He does his job with the resources available to him and a renewable, mind you renewable desire each time he gets into the ring. Warriors in certain parts of history are known as mindless killers, not a good image. Know what you mean and mean what you say. In summation, yes under the wing of Rooney given all the sets of circumstances that got him there minus, Ruthless Roper and Robbing Givens, he could with training and the right coaching repeat his feats in this era because with those tools, you have fighters that care and most of all, realistic. I don't know about great but if you think back into your own life you just may find you are capable of doing better things if you had patience, education and perseverance. Champion has a good ring to it, right? Most of the contenders in the heavyweight division should fight more often because if Mike was here they'd definitely need to practice survival of the fittest. I'm not the biggest fan of Mike Tyson but his greatness was never truly fulfilled because he was distracted.
Easily distracted, after Buster got through with him. Tyson became distracted by his own suspect chin.
What makes anyone think the same thing wouldn't happen again.
Suspect chin? You really do not know boxing.
I know how to read a boxing record. He was a great puncher but after all was said and done, he could dish it out but he--his chin--couldn't take it. Too bad he couldn't keep his penis where it belonged, he wouldn't have lost some good years, effectively screwing himself and his legacy. Too bad his chin didn't match his mouth, his KO% would have been much better too.
You cant just look at a record and conclude.There is no evidence to suggest that Tyson had a bad chin. The punches Douglas landed to get Mike in trouble were perfectly timed and placed and may have dropped anyone. Its like saying Fullmer had a bad chin because of the second Robinson fight.
Same with Lewis. People actually consider him to have a weak chin because of the McCall and Rahman fight but FFS had those shots landed on anyone I don't see them continuing. He simply got caught clean and any man can be knocked out. These same people ignore the bombs he took from Vitali in the pocket to continue the dogma.
Lets get real on the rape charge. He may have been convicted as he was Americas bad boy at the time but that whole episode in history leaves a bad taste. Like a gold digging gone wrong. Never trusted that entire ordeal even though I admit to hating Tyson at the time. Tyson was a phenom regardless of who ranks him on their atg lists and is an atg. The jail term changes nothing boxing wise. His legacy is set and he's a first ballet hall of famer regardless of the circus late in his career.
The time off Jeffries spent prior to fighting Johnson changes nothing.
The time off Louis spent because of ww2 changes nothing.
The time off Ali spent because of Viet Nam changes nothing.
The time off Tyson spent in jail because of a trumped up rape changes nothing.
None of those lapses in time change the body of work by any of those all time greats.
Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
lol so you're telling me that nobody could've survived those shots from McCall and Rahman??
:rolleyes:
Tokyo Douglas would've had Wlad out of there in 2 rounds max ... Vitali would've gotten TKOed in 6 ;)
Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
Off topic here but, that puppy looks high.
Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
lol so you're telling me that nobody could've survived those shots from McCall and Rahman??
:rolleyes:
Tokyo Douglas would've had Wlad out of there in 2 rounds max ... Vitali would've gotten TKOed in 6 ;)
I'm a big Tyson fan also, but there's such a thing as taking fandom to an extreme.
#1- A heavyweight takes a flush shot such as Lewis did against both McCall and Rahman... and 90% chance he's going down. Lewis was not moving back with the punch. There was no partial blockage of the punch. In each case, the punch landed right on the button (the point of the chin, which rattles the brain more).
#2- I'm the first one to say that Douglas deserves all the credit in the world (see past posts) for his upset of Tyson. And I do think he KO's Wlad at some point early or mid-fight. But Vitali KO'ed in 6? C'mon man. What Mrs. Klitschko didn't give to Wlad in the chin department, was because Vitali had already taken it.
Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Off topic here but, that puppy looks high.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I caught him perfect with that picture. I put him up into the forklift and he turned and gave me that look.
Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
lol so you're telling me that nobody could've survived those shots from McCall and Rahman??
:rolleyes:
Tokyo Douglas would've had Wlad out of there in 2 rounds max ... Vitali would've gotten TKOed in 6 ;)
I'm a big Tyson fan also, but there's such a thing as taking fandom to an extreme.
#1- A heavyweight takes a flush shot such as Lewis did against both McCall and Rahman... and 90% chance he's going down. Lewis was
not moving back with the punch. There was
no partial blockage of the punch. In each case, the punch landed right on the button (the point of the chin, which rattles the brain more).
#2- I'm the first one to say that Douglas deserves all the credit in the world (see past posts) for his upset of Tyson. And I do think he KO's Wlad at some point early or mid-fight. But Vitali KO'ed in 6? C'mon man. What Mrs. Klitschko didn't give to Wlad in the chin department, was because Vitali had already taken it.
We can't say for sure how many heavyweights could take those shots from Rahman and McCall, so assigning a percentage is the wrong thing to do. But I can tell you that not every heavyweight would be KOed from those punches. And how many one punch KOs do Rahman and McCall have between them?? Both were never known for one punch KO power ... McCall was known for durability and Rahman was known for his overall ability. It was more of a chin failure from Lewis than super punches from either guy ... especially when Lewis was KTFO while exchanging with McCall and with his guard up against Rahman.
"That punch would've KOed anybody" isn't always true.
Re: Prime Mike Tyson in this era
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
lol so you're telling me that nobody could've survived those shots from McCall and Rahman??
:rolleyes:
Tokyo Douglas would've had Wlad out of there in 2 rounds max ... Vitali would've gotten TKOed in 6 ;)
I'm a big Tyson fan also, but there's such a thing as taking fandom to an extreme.
#1- A heavyweight takes a flush shot such as Lewis did against both McCall and Rahman... and 90% chance he's going down. Lewis was
not moving back with the punch. There was
no partial blockage of the punch. In each case, the punch landed right on the button (the point of the chin, which rattles the brain more).
#2- I'm the first one to say that Douglas deserves all the credit in the world (see past posts) for his upset of Tyson. And I do think he KO's Wlad at some point early or mid-fight. But Vitali KO'ed in 6? C'mon man. What Mrs. Klitschko didn't give to Wlad in the chin department, was because Vitali had already taken it.
We can't say for sure how many heavyweights could take those shots from Rahman and McCall, so assigning a percentage is the wrong thing to do. But I can tell you that not every heavyweight would be KOed from those punches. And how many one punch KOs do Rahman and McCall have between them?? Both were never known for one punch KO power ... McCall was known for durability and Rahman was known for his overall ability.
It was more of a chin failure from Lewis than super punches from either guy ... especially when Lewis was KTFO while exchanging with McCall and with his guard up against Rahman.
"That punch would've KOed anybody" isn't always true.
You're right. There's no way to accurately put a percentage on how many HW's would be knocked out by those punches. But I still think you're oversimplifying things with the bolded statement above. You neglect to notice everything else about the punches which resulted in the knockouts. I've seen these over and over again. They caught Lewis cold and flush on the point of the chin. These punches, more than any other head punches, create the sudden rotation of the neck which in combination with the rattling of the brain results in a knockout. Many other head shots land on the cheek, forehead, ear, etc. The point of the chin is the most susceptible. You also neglected to consider what I mentioned about the punches not being partially blocked. This happens a lot also. And finally... you said it yourself. Lewis was exchanging with McCall. A lot of knockouts occur as a result of an exchange, when the other fighter is coming forward with his own punch. And what you call "his guard up" against Rahman was nothing but a lazy attempt at keeping his hands up. Rahman's punch touched nothing but chin. The theory that Lewis somehow had a suspect chin gets put to bed with the fight against Vitali, where Lewis caught some heavy bombs himself.
Lewis' issue was usually mental. He could be lackadaisical and lazy, which he was in the first fights against both McCall and Rahman... or he could come in with a killer's mentality.
