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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NuthaPug
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NuthaPug
Ward deserves the respect. He proved himself in the ring, and everything he said after the fight was just fine - just as humble (if not quite as humbled) as Froch.
Got a crop of haters who aren't looking straight here. No surprise ...
Ward won the fight and was the better man on the night. I scored it as fairly as I could which was 9-3 Ward. I give him his dues in that regard, but am I excited about seeing him fight and do I like his style? Not really, I find it dull. I'm also not really sure about thanking the saints who have prayed for him. That is just weirdo talk.
I find it funny when boxing fans talk about hating. Any criticism is deemed hate on these forums. It's much easier to just stick labels on people with many opinions rather than accepting that their criticisms are just as valid and certainly more honest than those who just want to talk about pink fluffy rainbows all night long.
Well if that shoe fit, I'd wear it. Since it doesn't, I won't.
Criticism is one thing, and hate is another. Easily distinguished. Your points are true in a general way, but if you read this thread you'll see that they aren't pertinent here.
I don't see much criticism of Ward. Wishing that his next boxing match would put him in a coma ... criticism or hate? He's a douche ... criticism or hate? Those aren't "opinions" or "critques."
You know, I'm sure, what you can do with your fluffy pink rainbow, so I won't bother to offer any suggestions.
As far as Ward's style - it wasn't the most exciting. But it was effective. He could have stayed outside and it would have been even more boring. But he took it inside - all the way inside - avoiding Froch's comfortable range. He took it right to Froch, and fought a smart fight. Not sure what you find exciting but I actually respect something like this more than Mickey Ward and Gatti, even though there's more energy level with the bloody war.
Your comments anti-Ward are not what I consider hate. They don't quite rise to the level of intelligent criticism, either. You are really just talking about yourself - what kind of fights you do and don't like. Were you being critical, we'd learn something about Ward by reading what you say. Instead, we just learn about you.
No, it isn't intelligent criticism to say that you don't enjoy a fighters style nor enjoy their post fight babble. It is just an opinion and it is valid on its own terms.
I responded to your post as it was earlier suggested (by another poster) that I hate American fighters and it is just blatantly untrue. I seem to get called a hater quite a lot and on the whole don't think it is hate to criticize a fighters style or what they say. You like what you like and it is typically something that connects with you in some way.
I certainly don't hate Ward, I just find him dull.
I for one have no desire to see any fighter in a coma either. I can't take it that seriously. That's really nasty talk.
It's just a figure of speech. As violent as the sport is, no fan actually wants to see anyone get seriously hurt. It's just entertainment at the end of the day.
Totally. Even my Khan posts these days are extremely tongue in cheek. It makes me laugh when people take me seriously. I guess that's the price I pay for being serious in one thread and then suddenly being flippant in another. Just boxing at the end of the day.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Is there a good Super-middleweight around named Judas?
G'night homies, you can't win 'um all.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
<snip>
No, it isn't intelligent criticism to say that you don't enjoy a fighters style nor enjoy their post fight babble. It is just an opinion and it is valid on its own terms.
I responded to your post as it was earlier suggested (by another poster) that I hate American fighters and it is just blatantly untrue. I seem to get called a hater quite a lot and on the whole don't think it is hate to criticize a fighters style or what they say. You like what you like and it is typically something that connects with you in some way.
I certainly don't hate Ward, I just find him dull. I for one have no desire to see any fighter in a coma either. I can't take it that seriously. That's really nasty talk.
Good response.
Yes, we watch and enjoy boxing on a subjective level, and there's nothing wrong with that. I haven't seen enough of Ward to know what is so irritating to people. Thought he did good work tonight. But I like watching Mayweather and Hopkins. And I like chess. So plodding and thoughtful isn't too boring for me.
There were a couple rounds where Ward really pushed Froch around. As i said in another post, I kept looking for another punch or two on the end of Ward's combinations. It would have made for a more impressive and outstanding fight. But maybe he knew best when he had to stop throwing and cover.
at any rate, he was convincing. I agree with suggestions that had this gone 15 rounds, we may have seen a different outcome. Ward was tuckered rounds 11 and 12.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
It's just a figure of speech. As violent as the sport is, no fan actually wants to see anyone get seriously hurt. It's just entertainment at the end of the day.
Of course it is a figure of speech, and I didn't think differently when I read it. But it's ugly anyway, in a sport where it could happen all too easily.
Even understanding that it wasn't meant literally, the comment is just one example among quite a few. Ward isn't much liked by a lot of people here. And the dislike has a bit of energy to it.
Really the only point I was trying to make. I don't think he's that hard to take.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
The Son of God shit is beyond annoying but I'm in a total disconnect with a lot of people on his entertainment value.
I'm never bored in his fights. He's an exciting fighter IMO :confused:
I have no issue with relentless hate though. I hate Wlad as much as Canadians love Nickelback.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OumaFan
The Son of God shit is beyond annoying but I'm in a total disconnect with a lot of people on his entertainment value.
I'm never bored in his fights. He's an exciting fighter IMO :confused:
I have no issue with relentless hate though. I hate Wlad as much as Canadians love Nickelback.
That is a goddamn dirty lie :mad:
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NuthaPug
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
It's just a figure of speech. As violent as the sport is, no fan actually wants to see anyone get seriously hurt. It's just entertainment at the end of the day.
Of course it is a figure of speech, and I didn't think differently when I read it. But it's ugly anyway, in a sport where it could happen all too easily.
Even understanding that it wasn't meant literally, the comment is just one example among quite a few. Ward isn't much liked by a lot of people here. And the dislike has a bit of energy to it.
Really the only point I was trying to make. I don't think he's that hard to take.
People seem split on him. I think he's a very talented fighter, but he's also very dirty. I don't think his fights have been that entertaining, but they're not that entertaining in the same way that Mayweather's aren't - they're completely one-sided. It's always impressive watching Ward fight, but he's just so much better than everyone he's fought so far that there is very little intrigue.
I don't really mind his fighting style (at least not anymore than I might someone like Hopkins), it's mostly his personality that grates on me.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OumaFan
The Son of God shit is beyond annoying but I'm in a total disconnect with a lot of people on his entertainment value.
I'm never bored in his fights. He's an exciting fighter IMO :confused:
I have no issue with relentless hate though. I hate Wlad as much as Canadians love Nickelback.
I wouldn't care who he is, that Son of God shit makes me wanna :puke:
The only reason I watched the fight tonight, was in the hope that Froch might win. I unmuted the sound long enough to hear the decision read, then immediately changed the channel.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NuthaPug
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
It's just a figure of speech. As violent as the sport is, no fan actually wants to see anyone get seriously hurt. It's just entertainment at the end of the day.
Of course it is a figure of speech, and I didn't think differently when I read it. But it's ugly anyway, in a sport where it could happen all too easily.
Even understanding that it wasn't meant literally, the comment is just one example among quite a few. Ward isn't much liked by a lot of people here. And the dislike has a bit of energy to it.
Really the only point I was trying to make. I don't think he's that hard to take.
People seem split on him. I think he's a very talented fighter, but he's also very dirty. I don't think his fights have been that entertaining,
but they're not that entertaining in the same way that Mayweather's aren't - they're completely one-sided. It's always impressive watching Ward fight, but he's just so much better than everyone he's fought so far that there is very little intrigue.
I don't really mind his fighting style (at least not anymore than I might someone like Hopkins), it's mostly his personality that grates on me.
I disagree, Mayweather's fights are far more watchable then Ward's, plus he's a much more talented fighter, Ward doesn't even come close.
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Re: Froch vs Ward - Saturday on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Froch can box (Jermain Taylor).
Recall that Froch was losing *badly* before KO'ing Taylor.
I'm curious what the odds are for this fight. I honestly see Froch as a full class below Ward and having virtually no chance of winning the fight.
IMO he lost the fight to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler (which was the ugliest, sloppist, most amateurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters). On my cards, he's lost half of the Super 6 fights he's been in.
He looked good in the Johnson fight though, I'll give him that. So maybe he's really just improved drastically since the beginning of the tournament.
I'd still be happy to lay down a wad of cash on Ward with even halfway-decent odds.
Exactly as expected. Easy money.
I'd rather see Froch-Bute than Ward-Bute now. The first is a good, competive fight (that I pick Bute to win); the second is a wide Ward UD. Would much rather see Maravilla come up (which he's said he won't do) for Ward or see Ward go up and fight Dawson -- that's a pick'em.
For the record, I'm a serious atheist and can't stand the god-talk from Ward either - but otherwise I like him and he's very impressive. On the other hand, I've always disliked Froch and thought he was typically overrated as a big fish in a small, British pond (though he's better than Hatton, at least). It was nice to see him stop being such an arrogant jackass for once and admit he was outclassed though.
Those 115-113 judges should be suspended. This thing was 117-112 at the absolute closest. I only gave Froch round 9. (3 and 11 were the only other possibilities) But it's nice that it was the British judge who got it right.
Do the Brits who were comparing Froch favorably to Calzaghe think Ward outclasses a prime Calzaghe now? (Purely rhetorical -- I'm not ready to go there at this point.)
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Re: Froch vs Ward - Saturday on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Froch can box (Jermain Taylor).
Recall that Froch was losing *badly* before KO'ing Taylor.
I'm curious what the odds are for this fight. I honestly see Froch as a full class below Ward and having virtually no chance of winning the fight.
IMO he lost the fight to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler (which was the ugliest, sloppist, most amateurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters). On my cards, he's lost half of the Super 6 fights he's been in.
He looked good in the Johnson fight though, I'll give him that. So maybe he's really just improved drastically since the beginning of the tournament.
I'd still be happy to lay down a wad of cash on Ward with even halfway-decent odds.
Exactly as expected. Easy money.
I'd rather see Froch-Bute than Ward-Bute now. The first is a good, competive fight (that I pick Bute to win); the second is a wide Ward UD. Would much rather see Maravilla come up (which he's said he won't do) for Ward or see Ward go up and fight Dawson -- that's a pick'em.
For the record, I'm a serious atheist and can't stand the god-talk from Ward either - but otherwise I like him and he's very impressive. On the other hand, I've always disliked Froch and thought he was typically overrated as a big fish in a small, British pond (though he's better than Hatton, at least). It was nice to see him stop being such an arrogant jackass for once and admit he was outclassed though.
Those 115-113 judges should be suspended. This thing was 117-112 at the absolute closest. I only gave Froch round 9. (3 and 11 were the only other possibilities) But it's nice that it was the British judge who got it right.
Do the Brits who were comparing Froch favorably to Calzaghe think Ward outclasses a prime Calzaghe now? (Purely rhetorical -- I'm not ready to go there at this point.)
I think Calzaghe/Ward is relatively straightforward for Calzaghe and likewise Froch was always a straightforward fight for Calzaghe too.
Ward is slick and has smarts, but he has stamina issues and there is just no way that he would be able to keep up with Calzaghe. I see it being relatively close whilst Calzaghe feels him out and then once the work rate is jacked up, then Ward is over his head.
Calzaghe has multiple gameplans too, but also has that superhuman workrate. Nobody can keep up with it. Nobody on this earth.
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Re: Froch vs Ward - Saturday on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Froch can box (Jermain Taylor).
Recall that Froch was losing *badly* before KO'ing Taylor.
I'm curious what the odds are for this fight. I honestly see Froch as a full class below Ward and having virtually no chance of winning the fight.
IMO he lost the fight to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler (which was the ugliest, sloppist, most amateurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters). On my cards, he's lost half of the Super 6 fights he's been in.
He looked good in the Johnson fight though, I'll give him that. So maybe he's really just improved drastically since the beginning of the tournament.
I'd still be happy to lay down a wad of cash on Ward with even halfway-decent odds.
Exactly as expected. Easy money.
I'd rather see Froch-Bute than Ward-Bute now. The first is a good, competive fight (that I pick Bute to win); the second is a wide Ward UD. Would much rather see Maravilla come up (which he's said he won't do) for Ward or see Ward go up and fight Dawson -- that's a pick'em.
For the record, I'm a serious atheist and can't stand the god-talk from Ward either - but otherwise I like him and he's very impressive. On the other hand, I've always disliked Froch and thought he was typically overrated as a big fish in a small, British pond (though he's better than Hatton, at least). It was nice to see him stop being such an arrogant jackass for once and admit he was outclassed though.
Those 115-113 judges should be suspended. This thing was 117-112 at the absolute closest. I only gave Froch round 9. (3 and 11 were the only other possibilities) But it's nice that it was the British judge who got it right.
Do the Brits who were comparing Froch favorably to Calzaghe think Ward outclasses a prime Calzaghe now? (Purely rhetorical -- I'm not ready to go there at this point.)
I think Calzaghe/Ward is relatively straightforward for Calzaghe and likewise Froch was always a straightforward fight for Calzaghe too.
Ward is slick and has smarts, but he has stamina issues and there is just no way that he would be able to keep up with Calzaghe. I see it being relatively close whilst Calzaghe feels him out and then once the work rate is jacked up, then Ward is over his head.
Calzaghe has multiple gameplans too, but also has that superhuman workrate. Nobody can keep up with it. Nobody on this earth.
I thought an old, way-past-his-prime Hopkins edged him, actually. Would have been an easy win for a prime Hopkins.
And a prime Jones would have destroyed Calzaghe.
But you may be right about Calzaghe/Ward. Too early to tell IMO.
Not trying to be dismissive of Calzaghe - he was a very, very good fighter and his workrate was indeed unreal. Just that Hopkins and Jones were best-of-generation fighters, and Calzaghe wasn't. Unclear if Ward is or not. Fairly ridiculous to claim it's "relatively straightforward," though.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Wow! Via Twitter :-O
danrafaelespn: Looking at official cards from Ward-Froch. John Stewart was absolutely horrible. Had Froch up 49-46 thru 5 rds. ABSOLUTE JOKE. #boxing
I though Ward was excellent but I find his fights dull. A lot of it is not his fault, the Kessler and Froch fights were too one sided. He may have similar skills to Floyd and Roy, but there is no explosions of excitement.
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Was I the only one he thought Froch had to technique in the fight? He looked like someone having one of their first boxing fights. Some real amature mistakes.
He fell into the trap of reaching with an awkward looking paw of a jab and got countered all night. Then even more school boy errors of dropping his hands everytime he jabbed. Ward was landing the left hook at will.
Ward did brilliant, but Froch was awful.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
armin
Didnt watch after fight commentary or scorecards figured clear enough win for ward why listen to em, but wow 115-113 those are awefully close. I gave froch 3 rounds and those rounds he won cause he went balls out, as much heart as froch has i always feel like he leaves a little bit in the tank, and that cost him the kessler fight. Bute could compete with ward in speed and outside skill but think ward would make it an inside fight and hed maul bute, and i used to think bute would win but ward might just be a bit to good all around. Also really ward fought clean and didnt really do any spoiling in this fight imo and was fairly exciting.
You have to be joking!
I thought Smoger was supposed to let them fight as a ref? He kept allowing Ward to smother, hold and hit. He has adapted his "style" to holding like Hatton did and its fucking ugly! Hes either got his arm around their waist or their elbow, hes never stood where a fighter is supposed to be and avoiding shots by using head movement or any kind of defence, just by smothering and pushing his head against the opponents chest. He neevr once got warned for it but the ref did split them a few times:p
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
I think Calzaghe would have had an easier time with a younger Hopkins than the one he fought and I thought he beat Hopkins decisively. It was only a close fight really for the first 4 and then Calzaghe made his adjustments. Hopkins always comes on down the stretch, he only hasn't done so against Calzaghe. A younger Hopkins would have given Calzaghe more opportunities to get off his punches.
I really believe Calzaghe is better than Hopkins no matter what, prime Jones Jr is more difficult. None of these Super 6 fighters is a patch on either Hopkins, Jones nor Calzaghe.
Ward is not that hard a fight for Calzaghe. I really believe that.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
There are boxers and there are fighters. There are a select few elite in the hurt game who can effortlessly combine both. Then amongst these few there are those who touch greatness, who can mix it up and evolve mid contest. These warriors transcend the sport, their exploits bleed onto the front page, their fearlessness allows them to dismantle the emerging careers of athletes of great promise and expose those whose excellence has been prematurely announced. They are legends the benchmark against whom future boxers are measured. Carl Froch has the chance to join the select few, the men who are spoken of in hushed tones of awe. That chance is in his lethal hands, the well honed chiselled, spiteful tools of his noble trade. Can the Cobra strike and snatch the mantle of greatness from the hallowed hall of British super Middleweights who punched and fought their way onto the world’s stage, burning the image of their greatness onto the consciousness of pugilistic punters across the globe? Tonight we will find out.
So once again i got it spectacularly wrong ;D
In the early hours of Sunday morning, Carl Froch was comprehensively beaten by Andre Ward. His bravery and durability in withstanding a 12 round onslaught by a former Olympic gold medallist 7 years his junior can not be questioned. The Cobra was made to look sluggish, almost pedestrian at times by the slick American, a boxer whose greatest asset seems to be the ease with which he makes himself unhittable. The elusiveness of Ward was not the surprise on the night, it was his willingness and ability to stand and trade with Froch, forcing the old school warrior from Nottingham back against the ropes, turning his own vicious long game back on to the older man. Carl rallied late on and over a vintage 15 rounds he may well have caught up with a fading Ward, but it is 2011 and over a championship distance of 12 rounds the venom was drawn from the cobra's bite. The snap usually present in his punches, was nullified by Ward's excellent reflexes, and as a counter puncher relentlessly marching forward, it is the Californian man whose name will go down in the record books as holder of 3 belts and winner of the super 6 tournament. Pound for pound Ward has made a case to crash into the top 5, and if he continues to fight like he did against Froch it will just be a matter of time before his name is mentioned in tandem with greatness.
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Ward goes straight into the mythical top 5 P4P for me now
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Hopkins said he never wants to fight Ward, they seem to get on.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Hopkins said he never wants to fight Ward, they seem to get on.
It would be like two rams battling for a mate. Bits of brain popping out everywhere.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
Ward goes straight into the mythical top 5 P4P for me now
That'll be nice to see. I've long felt he was underrated on the P4P rankings (probably because his style turns off a lot of people).
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
The fight went exactly as expected. Literally, the wise old bookies in Vegas got it 100% correct.
Am I the only one who wasn't super impressed by Ward last night? This was elite level boxing and I give all the credit to both guys in the first instance. It's just the last fight of his magnitude at super middleweight was Calzaghe versus Kessler and as soon as Calzaghe adjusted, it was pure domination. I never felt that happened last night. For example, I didn't see Froch hurt by one punch the whole night. Ward beat Froch clear but it wasn't a domination. Also, when Ward got hit, which wasn't often, Froch's punches seemed to affect him. To me his chin is still a question mark. He also seems open for an uppercut and like he'd have trouble with speed. He clintches a bit too much for my taste too. The eleventh and twelfth rounds weren't fun to watch because Ward clintched the whole time.
I really think the main problem I have with Ward is he has no power. It's one thing for a 37 year old Joe Calzaghe to have trouble getting guys out of there because his hands have been weakened by the game or Bernard Hopkins in his 40's not having concussive power, but Ward is in his prime and he has no power. Ward would win a lot of fans if he worked on getting more leverage into his punches. I don't buy the fact that power is born not taught. Maybe to an extent, but you can work on it to make yourself somewhat more powerful.
Although it could be devastatingly boring to watch, Dirrell seems like a bad style match up for Ward. Maybe Ward will stop Anthony Dirrell in his next fight and we'll get to see Andre Ward versus Andre Dirrell in his next fight.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
Ward goes straight into the mythical top 5 P4P for me now
That'll be nice to see. I've long felt he was underrated on the P4P rankings (probably because his style turns off a lot of people).
Lobo - frankly, he is a very, very good boxer, but he lacks power. When he was winning on the scorecards big going into the 10th round, he should have tried to get Froch out of there; instead he did the exact opposite and clintched his way to victory.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
Ward goes straight into the mythical top 5 P4P for me now
That'll be nice to see. I've long felt he was underrated on the P4P rankings (probably because his style turns off a lot of people).
Lobo - frankly, he is a very, very good boxer, but he lacks power. When he was winning on the scorecards big going into the 10th round, he should have tried to get Froch out of there; instead he did the exact opposite and clintched his way to victory.
Ever heard of Willie Pep?
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Re: Froch vs Ward - Saturday on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Froch can box (Jermain Taylor).
Recall that Froch was losing *badly* before KO'ing Taylor.
I'm curious what the odds are for this fight. I honestly see Froch as a full class below Ward and having virtually no chance of winning the fight.
IMO he lost the fight to Dirrell. He lost to Kessler (which was the ugliest, sloppist, most amateurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters). On my cards, he's lost half of the Super 6 fights he's been in.
He looked good in the Johnson fight though, I'll give him that. So maybe he's really just improved drastically since the beginning of the tournament.
I'd still be happy to lay down a wad of cash on Ward with even halfway-decent odds.
Exactly as expected. Easy money.
I'd rather see Froch-Bute than Ward-Bute now. The first is a good, competive fight (that I pick Bute to win); the second is a wide Ward UD. Would much rather see Maravilla come up (which he's said he won't do) for Ward or see Ward go up and fight Dawson -- that's a pick'em.
For the record, I'm a serious atheist and can't stand the god-talk from Ward either - but otherwise I like him and he's very impressive. On the other hand, I've always disliked Froch and thought he was typically overrated as a big fish in a small, British pond (though he's better than Hatton, at least). It was nice to see him stop being such an arrogant jackass for once and admit he was outclassed though.
Those 115-113 judges should be suspended. This thing was 117-112 at the absolute closest. I only gave Froch round 9. (3 and 11 were the only other possibilities) But it's nice that it was the British judge who got it right.
Do the Brits who were comparing Froch favorably to Calzaghe think Ward outclasses a prime Calzaghe now? (Purely rhetorical -- I'm not ready to go there at this point.)
I think Calzaghe/Ward is relatively straightforward for Calzaghe and likewise Froch was always a straightforward fight for Calzaghe too.
Ward is slick and has smarts, but he has stamina issues and there is just no way that he would be able to keep up with Calzaghe. I see it being relatively close whilst Calzaghe feels him out and then once the work rate is jacked up, then Ward is over his head.
Calzaghe has multiple gameplans too, but also has that superhuman workrate. Nobody can keep up with it. Nobody on this earth.
I thought an old, way-past-his-prime Hopkins edged him, actually. Would have been an easy win for a prime Hopkins.
And a prime Jones would have destroyed Calzaghe.
But you may be right about Calzaghe/Ward. Too early to tell IMO.
Not trying to be dismissive of Calzaghe - he was a very, very good fighter and his workrate was indeed unreal. Just that Hopkins and Jones were best-of-generation fighters, and Calzaghe wasn't. Unclear if Ward is or not. Fairly ridiculous to claim it's "relatively straightforward," though.
I completely disagree, but we'll never know. Prime is a relative term. When? A prime Hopkins lost by a lot to a prime Jones. I'm in the minority but I believe Hopkins developed into a better fighter as he aged. Hopkins didn't want anything to do with Jones until Jones was passed it. I think Hopkins would have problems with Jones or Calzaghe at any stage of his career. A prime Jones would have given Calzaghe problems, but I'm not sure about the result, a prime Calzaghe had punching power too, and Jones never had the best chin. In terms of primes, I would probably give the edge to Jones, then Calzaghe, then Hopkins. At the end of the day, scoreboard.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
Ward goes straight into the mythical top 5 P4P for me now
That'll be nice to see. I've long felt he was underrated on the P4P rankings (probably because his style turns off a lot of people).
Lobo - frankly, he is a very, very good boxer, but he lacks power. When he was winning on the scorecards big going into the 10th round, he should have tried to get Froch out of there; instead he did the exact opposite and clintched his way to victory.
Ever heard of Willie Pep?
What does that mean?
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Did anyone else find that broadcast ridiculously pro-Ward? I'm not sure I heard one compliment about Froch nor one criticism of Ward. How about someone suggesting that Ward should try and get his man out of there for once? This is prizefighting, isn't it?
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Did anyone else find that broadcast ridiculously pro-Ward? I'm not sure I heard one compliment about Froch nor one criticism of Ward. How about someone suggesting that Ward should try and get his man out of there for once? This is prizefighting, isn't it?
This seems to be a common trend amongst America broadcasters. HBO refuses to engage in any honest fashion and Showtime has become the same.
It's a shame because this reflects the US media at large too. An entire culture built on telling lies to let the power brokers know it is all okay.
But big fat lies all the way through. These things happen in fascistic states. America is becoming very fascistic.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Did anyone else find that broadcast ridiculously pro-Ward? I'm not sure I heard one compliment about Froch nor one criticism of Ward. How about someone suggesting that Ward should try and get his man out of there for once? This is prizefighting, isn't it?
Three posts ago, you said, "At the end of the day, scoreboard." Ward's ultimate goal is not to "get his man out of the there"; it's to win the fight.
As for Willie Pep, he's widely regarded as one of the all-time P4P greats, and he's got a knockout percentage not much higher than 25%. So...
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Did anyone else find that broadcast ridiculously pro-Ward? I'm not sure I heard one compliment about Froch nor one criticism of Ward. How about someone suggesting that Ward should try and get his man out of there for once? This is prizefighting, isn't it?
Three posts ago, you said, "At the end of the day, scoreboard." Ward's ultimate goal is
not to "get his man out of the there"; it's to win the fight.
As for Willie Pep, he's widely regarded as one of the all-time P4P greats, and he's got a knockout percentage not much higher than 25%. So...
I think you're missing my point. I'm not suggesting Ward isn't good. Scoreboard - Ward beat Froch, the third best super middleweight out there to most people. Recall that prior to the fight, I said Ward should beat Froch on the cards.
Ward's lack of punching power is what makes him less marketable and less fun to watch, like Paulie Malinaggi, but on a different level. This is prize-fighting too. Hopkins couldn't get Pavlik out of there but his punches took a big toll. Ward's punches didn't take a big toll; Froch just couldn't hit him. Do you understand the difference? Not all defensive fighters don't have power. Mayweather is defensive, but Mayweather knocks people out. Its a big part of the reason he is popular.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Also, when Ward got hit, which wasn't often, Froch's punches seemed to affect him.
I didn't see that *at all.* Ward's clean shots actually hurt Froch more than the other way. But neither guy was ever seriously hurt.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Did anyone else find that broadcast ridiculously pro-Ward? I'm not sure I heard one compliment about Froch nor one criticism of Ward. How about someone suggesting that Ward should try and get his man out of there for once? This is prizefighting, isn't it?
Three posts ago, you said, "At the end of the day, scoreboard." Ward's ultimate goal is
not to "get his man out of the there"; it's to win the fight.
As for Willie Pep, he's widely regarded as one of the all-time P4P greats, and he's got a knockout percentage not much higher than 25%. So...
I think you're missing my point. I'm not suggesting Ward isn't good. Scoreboard - Ward beat Froch, the third best super middleweight out there to most people. Recall that prior to the fight, I said Ward should beat Froch on the cards.
Ward's lack of punching power is what makes him less marketable and less fun to watch, like Paulie Malinaggi, but on a different level. This is prize-fighting too. Hopkins couldn't get Pavlik out of there but his punches took a big toll. Ward's punches didn't take a big toll; Froch just couldn't hit him. Do you understand the difference? Not all defensive fighters don't have power. Mayweather is defensive, but Mayweather knocks people out. Its a big part of the reason he is popular.
If you're just talking about Ward's appeal and marketability, I agree. Personally, I enjoy his fights a great deal, but I get it that many people don't. It wasn't clear to me whether you were only talking about that, or if you were further suggesting that this somehow undermines his greatness; it's this latter point that I would disagree with.
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Did anyone else find that broadcast ridiculously pro-Ward? I'm not sure I heard one compliment about Froch nor one criticism of Ward. How about someone suggesting that Ward should try and get his man out of there for once? This is prizefighting, isn't it?
Three posts ago, you said, "At the end of the day, scoreboard." Ward's ultimate goal is
not to "get his man out of the there"; it's to win the fight.
As for Willie Pep, he's widely regarded as one of the all-time P4P greats, and he's got a knockout percentage not much higher than 25%. So...
I think you're missing my point. I'm not suggesting Ward isn't good. Scoreboard - Ward beat Froch, the third best super middleweight out there to most people. Recall that prior to the fight, I said Ward should beat Froch on the cards.
Ward's lack of punching power is what makes him less marketable and less fun to watch, like Paulie Malinaggi, but on a different level. This is prize-fighting too. Hopkins couldn't get Pavlik out of there but his punches took a big toll. Ward's punches didn't take a big toll; Froch just couldn't hit him. Do you understand the difference? Not all defensive fighters don't have power. Mayweather is defensive, but Mayweather knocks people out. Its a big part of the reason he is popular.
If you're just talking about Ward's appeal and marketability, I agree. Personally, I enjoy his fights a great deal, but I get it that many people don't. It wasn't clear to me whether you were only talking about that, or if you were further suggesting that this somehow undermines his greatness; it's this latter point that I would disagree with.
Oh NO way, does it undermine his greatness. He has a great future as a boxer. The problem I see has to do with his marketability and appeal to the average fan. Dibella tweeted about a comment he overheard in the bar after the fight: "I'd rather see Gatti/Ward than Andre Ward." Now, that may just be a casual fan's comment, and not a boxing fanatic like some of us are in this forum, but there's something to be said for it. I think we'd agree that there is something special about being able to get your opponent out of there in terms of entertainment value. Ward can still be entertaining without doing it, but he would more entertaining if he could add it. Right?
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Re: Froch vs. Ward - Saturday fight/chat thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Did anyone else find that broadcast ridiculously pro-Ward? I'm not sure I heard one compliment about Froch nor one criticism of Ward. How about someone suggesting that Ward should try and get his man out of there for once? This is prizefighting, isn't it?
Three posts ago, you said, "At the end of the day, scoreboard." Ward's ultimate goal is
not to "get his man out of the there"; it's to win the fight.
As for Willie Pep, he's widely regarded as one of the all-time P4P greats, and he's got a knockout percentage not much higher than 25%. So...
I think you're missing my point. I'm not suggesting Ward isn't good. Scoreboard - Ward beat Froch, the third best super middleweight out there to most people. Recall that prior to the fight, I said Ward should beat Froch on the cards.
Ward's lack of punching power is what makes him less marketable and less fun to watch, like Paulie Malinaggi, but on a different level. This is prize-fighting too. Hopkins couldn't get Pavlik out of there but his punches took a big toll. Ward's punches didn't take a big toll; Froch just couldn't hit him. Do you understand the difference? Not all defensive fighters don't have power. Mayweather is defensive, but Mayweather knocks people out. Its a big part of the reason he is popular.
If you're just talking about Ward's appeal and marketability, I agree. Personally, I enjoy his fights a great deal, but I get it that many people don't. It wasn't clear to me whether you were only talking about that, or if you were further suggesting that this somehow undermines his greatness; it's this latter point that I would disagree with.
Oh NO way, does it undermine his greatness. He has a great future as a boxer. The problem I see has to do with his marketability and appeal to the average fan. Dibella tweeted about a comment he overheard in the bar after the fight: "I'd rather see Gatti/Ward than Andre Ward." Now, that may just be a casual fan's comment, and not a boxing fanatic like some of us are in this forum, but there's something to be said for it. I think we'd agree that there is something special about being able to get your opponent out of there in terms of entertainment value. Ward can still be entertaining without doing it, but he would more entertaining if he could add it. Right?
It is not just in the ring, pre and post fight in his interviews Ward just comes across as dull and unexcited about anything himself. it is difficult to motivate the public to get behind you when you portray yourself as being prayed for by saints, and so easily offended etc. If he smiled now and again and showed a bit of passion, more non boxing fans will get interested. He has a great skill set but seems to lack that finishing instinct. He may not be the biggest puncher but there are ways of stopping people early with pressure in more concentrated bursts, and he needs to add that to his armoury to get more neutral punters on board. Ward seems so afraid of be labelled negatively that his SOG persona has seriously taken any excitement out of his marketability. On the one hand his promoter says "behold his Viciousness" and then Andre says "oh i couldn't call myself the destroyer or anything" the public is confused.
