What do you think of Catch weights?
Never did like it. There was another analogy on another boxing forum where someone said asking another fighter to come down and meet at a catch weight is like Russel Crowe's character in Gladiator where he is fighting Joaquin Phoenix after Russel Crowe was stabbed in the back and poison prior to entering the colliseum to even the fight.
Famous fights like Leonard VS Lalonde for his Light heavyweight title where the guy was clearly weakened weighing in at 168 and Leonard KO him in the 9th. Delahoya making a 39 year old Bernard Hopkins come in at 158 for the middleweight championship, more than likely taking a cue from the original golden boy of the 80s, but it was a KO for Hopkins instead. And now there is a possibility a Cotto-Pacquiao at 142 for the Welterweight championships.
I have always loved this quote from Marvin Hagler, "If you wanna beat the champion, if you wanna take my titles I think you better come and take it."
And that's how I feel, if another fighter wants another fighter's titles fight him like a man and at his best.
So what are your opinion on catch weights?
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Hate them. They're bad for the sport. There is no good reason why Pacquiao can't fight Cotto at 147. We have enough weight divisions without stupid catchweight fights being brought into play.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
I think that the main reason we are seeing them now is because of money. There isn't enough star power in boxing in each division to just fight guys in your division to make money.. So Floyd took the big money to fight Oscar and moved up in weight.. Manny moved up in weight and Oscar dropped weight to make money, etc..
Although there are exceptions, like Taylor Pavlik II.. Taylor knew it was getting harder and harder to make 160, so he felt that if he lost, he would be a better fighter at a higher weight.. so they fought at 166.. and now taylor hasn't gone back down to middleweight ever since then..
I think that Catch weights are a great option to have.. BUT, the way that they are being used in the sport today is abusing that option.. normally there is not much "meeting in the middle", and someone is gaining/dropping more than the other which then allows people to come up with excuses.. "he gained too much weight and didn't bring his power with him" and/or "he was weight drained from sucking so much weight".
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
I heard the fight is gonna be somewhere 143-144. Pacquiao's best weight is at 140, and Cotto at 147. And they have to meet in the middle. Its a simple math.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Hate them. They're bad for the sport. There is no good reason why Pacquiao can't fight Cotto at 147. We have enough weight divisions without stupid catchweight fights being brought into play.
This.
It's all about money. If Pacquiao wasn't dangling a multi-million dollar carrot in front of Cotto's nose this fight would never happen. Honestly, unless it's at 147 I will give Pac very little credit for beating Mosley or Cotto and I hope others do the same. It isn't even necessary IMO, Pac would beat Cotto if they fought at any weight from 147 up.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quinito
I heard the fight is gonna be somewhere 143-144. Pacquiao's best weight is at 140, and Cotto at 147. And they have to meet in the middle. Its a simple math.
That's completely bogus logic though. If two guys are only truly effective at different weight divisions, then they shouldn't fight period. Calderon's best weight is 106, so the simple math would dictate that if he fought Pacquiao it should occur at 123 pounds right? Except no real fan want's to see a fight where both guys give up huge ground just to cash in off name recognition. If Cotto can't go below 147 without being weight drained, and Pacquiao doesn't think he can beat Miguel above 143 or whatever he wants, then it's just a tainted fight no matter what the outcome, and basically meaningless. I personally think Pacquiao could beat him handily at 147, so he should make the move up and give it a shot. If not every fight he has from now on could be a catchweight.. Mayweather or Mosley will want the fight at Welter as well, is he going to demand that they all come down in weight to fight him?
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quinito
I heard the fight is gonna be somewhere 143-144. Pacquiao's best weight is at 140, and Cotto at 147. And they have to meet in the middle. Its a simple math.
That's completely bogus logic though. If two guys are only truly effective at different weight divisions, then they shouldn't fight period. Calderon's best weight is 106, so the simple math would dictate that if he fought Pacquiao it should occur at 123 pounds right? Except no real fan want's to see a fight where both guys give up huge ground just to cash in off name recognition. If Cotto can't go below 147 without being weight drained, and Pacquiao doesn't think he can beat Miguel above 143 or whatever he wants, then it's just a tainted fight no matter what the outcome, and basically meaningless. I personally think Pacquiao could beat him handily at 147, so he should make the move up and give it a shot. If not every fight he has from now on could be a catchweight.. Mayweather or Mosley will want the fight at Welter as well, is he going to demand that they all come down in weight to fight him?
:coolclick:
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
There really is no point in catchweights, this is why there are 15 divisions in Boxing (I'm not counting the last two Min. Weight and Light Fly) to avoid catchweights. If there were only 8 Divisions I could may'be see a catchweight here and there, but nowadays there doesn't need to be catchweights. If the Cotto-Pacquiao fight is going to be fought around 143-144, then it's a Welterweight fight. I don't care if they call it a catchweight or not. It's above the Jr. Welterweight limit and it's not passed the Welterweigh limit. So, tht means it's a Welterweight fight, fuck catchweights.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Not sure how i feel about them. They do leave a ton of room for excuses for the looser. If your best weight is at 140 then fight the guys there, the moment one of these guys loose the weight will be the first excuse. I know we want big fights but if the guys are fighting at weights they aren't the best in then you're just wasting our time. It's always all good before the fight, then after....
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
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Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Hate them. They're bad for the sport. There is no good reason why Pacquiao can't fight Cotto at 147. We have enough weight divisions without stupid catchweight fights being brought into play.
This.
It's all about money. If Pacquiao wasn't dangling a multi-million dollar carrot in front of Cotto's nose this fight would never happen. Honestly, unless it's at 147 I will give Pac very little credit for beating Mosley or Cotto and I hope others do the same. It isn't even necessary IMO, Pac would beat Cotto if they fought at any weight from 147 up.
I feel pretty strongly about this. Seriously if Pacquiao wants to fight the Welters he should do it in their weightclass. If he wants to fight at 140, go fight Bradley or Edwin Valero. What pisses me off about it is if both Cotto & Mosley tell Pacquiao to fuck off, Pacquiao has to take a smaller payday to fight someone the world doesn't care about or just make the damn fight. Its not like Floyd is going to accept a 60-40 cut in Manny's favour.
People criticize Floyd alot, but when he fought Oscar he went to 154 and fought him at his natural weightclass. He didn't request a weight drained Oscar to step in the ring.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
I've said this many times before, if all parties agreed to have a fight at a certain weight (regular weight class, catchweight or otherwise) then there's NO PROBLEM AT ALL... If a boxer agreed to fight at THAT WEIGHT then he believes that HE CAN WIN the fight at THAT WEIGHT... end of...
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Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Hate them. They're bad for the sport. There is no good reason why Pacquiao can't fight Cotto at 147. We have enough weight divisions without stupid catchweight fights being brought into play.
This.
It's all about money. If Pacquiao wasn't dangling a multi-million dollar carrot in front of Cotto's nose this fight would never happen. Honestly, unless it's at 147 I will give Pac very little credit for beating Mosley or Cotto and I hope others do the same. It isn't even necessary IMO, Pac would beat Cotto if they fought at any weight from 147 up.
I feel pretty strongly about this. Seriously if Pacquiao wants to fight the Welters he should do it in their weightclass. If he wants to fight at 140, go fight Bradley or Edwin Valero. What pisses me off about it is if both Cotto & Mosley tell Pacquiao to fuck off, Pacquiao has to take a smaller payday to fight someone the world doesn't care about or just make the damn fight. Its not like Floyd is going to accept a 60-40 cut in Manny's favour.
People criticize Floyd alot, but
when he fought Oscar he went to 154 and fought him at his natural weightclass. He didn't request a weight drained Oscar to step in the ring.
This just showed that Team PAC did a very good job in negotiating the PAC-Hoya fight... It could also show that PAC has more negotiating power and could be that Hoya is in need to make the fight more...
I think PAC also got a better purse split (with Hoya) as compared to what Floyd got in his Hoya fight...
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Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
XaduBoxer
I've said this many times before, if all parties agreed to have a fight at a certain weight (regular weight class, catchweight or otherwise) then there's NO PROBLEM AT ALL... If a boxer agreed to fight at THAT WEIGHT then he believes that HE CAN WIN the fight at THAT WEIGHT... end of...
.
So you're supporting Pacquiao's stance :o. I'm stunned.
Seriously what is the point of having weightclasses if fighters keeping breaking those barriers? If Pacquiao wants to fight a Welterweight for a Welterweight World Title, then he should do so at 147. If he doesn't, then he should stay at 140 and fight a 140lber.
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
XaduBoxer
I've said this many times before, if all parties agreed to have a fight at a certain weight (regular weight class, catchweight or otherwise) then there's NO PROBLEM AT ALL... If a boxer agreed to fight at THAT WEIGHT then he believes that HE CAN WIN the fight at THAT WEIGHT... end of...
.
So you're supporting Pacquiao's stance :o. I'm stunned.
Seriously what is the point of having weightclasses if fighters keeping breaking those barriers? If Pacquiao wants to fight a Welterweight for a Welterweight World Title, then he should do so at 147. If he doesn't, then he should stay at 140 and fight a 140lber.
If PAC and Cotto will agree to fight at a catchweight of 143, do you think there could be some group who can successfully protest that this fight should not happen at that catchweight?? :confused:
Re: What do you think of Catch weights?
Now I won't criticize Pacman for fighting Oscar at 147 because you can't expect Manny to jump 3 weight classes and meet him at 154, but for the Cotto fight where it's 1 weight class and Pacman in my opinion has a good shot of beating Cotto then fight him at 147, fighting someone that's weight drain is a very cowardly move. Don't make the fight if you think you can't beat an opponent at their best with your boxing skills. The fight if made at a catchweight is a farce.
