Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
All things being equal, the Marquez fight is at 145, there wasn't a GB-TR feud, Manny has fought two close fights with Marquez before etc. Would you have rather seen him fight Ortiz? Would Ortiz have been a better/tougher opponent than JMM will be in November?
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
As Miles, Joeymafia, hornfinger have said,
"Manny is a cherry picking coward. A fraud of the highest order."
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
Yes and No..
Yes because Ortiz is a young natural welterweight who's about to hit his peak and Pacman has yet to face an opponent like that. If Ortiz fights with the same conviction he showed against Berto, I think he's a dangerous for anybody out there...
No because Marquez went 24 close rounds with pacman and won over 20 of those rounds. He's perceived as someone that has Pacman's number ( Im one of those people ) and regardless of the weight disparity, i believe he'll always give pacman hell ... In certain cases, when a fighter has the number of another fighter, weights become less of a factor. Pacman's so called size advantage over marquez is so overblown... it's not that much of an issue, Im sure of it. Marquez has been successful with pac because he simply knows how to deal with him. He has pacman's timing down to a tee which is why he's always one step ahead of him. If you watch closely, Marquez uses that half step back/throw combination technique and it workd everytime.. Pac is not a smart fighter and always falls into that trap.. Marquez anticipates pac's aggression and uses it against him. When pac moves forward, marquez takes a half step back while pacman is rushing in with punches,and when Pacman lunges in and goes off balace which happens often, he gets stretched and marquez starts catching him with mad combinations.. Marquez has him figured out and a trilogy will be no different.
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Yes and No..
Yes because Ortiz is a young natural welterweight who's about to hit his peak and Pacman has yet to face an opponent like that. If Ortiz fights with the same conviction he showed against Berto, I think he's a dangerous for anybody out there...
No because Marquez went 24 close rounds with pacman and won over 20 of those rounds. He's perceived as someone that has Pacman's number ( Im one of those people ) and regardless of the weight disparity, i believe he'll always give pacman hell ... In certain cases, when a fighter has the number of another fighter, weights become less of a factor. Pacman's so called size advantage over marquez is so overblown... it's not that much of an issue, Im sure of it. Marquez has been successful with pac because he simply knows how to deal with him. He has pacman's timing down to a tee which is why he's always one step ahead of him. If you watch closely, Marquez uses that half step back/throw combination technique and it workd everytime.. Pac is not a smart fighter and always falls into that trap.. Marquez anticipates pac's aggression and uses it against him. When pac moves forward, marquez takes a half step back while pacman is rushing in with punches,and when Pacman lunges in and goes off balace which happens often, he gets stretched and marquez starts catching him with mad combinations.. Marquez has him figured out and a trilogy will be no different.
I agree with you 100%. It sounds like though if pressed, you would prefer to see Pacquiao settle his grudge with Marquez in November. I agree with you.
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
Ortiz is an easier fight for Pacquiao compared to Marquez.
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
I think they are both worthy opponents. JMM and pac have a great history that needs to be finished, and Ortiz is a good young legit WW. I would have liked to see Pac-JMM then possibly, Pac-Ortiz after Ortiz had a chance to defend his belt maybe once or twice. But with the way the Pac-Floyd negotiations go i wouldn't be suprised if we still get a chance to see Pac-Ortiz later on, even if Ortiz loses to Mayweather.
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
Yes and no in my opinion is correct. I think Ortiz brings youth, size, power.
However, I think no for the most part because Ortiz IMO can't take Manny's power. Whereas I think stylistically he is a great opponent for Mayweather, but that is because he is southpaw and Mayweather doesn't have the power to truly scare Ortiz with any one punch. It's not that I don't think that Mayweather can hurt Ortiz, it's that he would have to over an accumulation of blows, and in the mean time Ortiz will be able to fight back. Against Pacquiao, Ortiz's defensive mistakes would be far more costly than against Floyd.
Marquez however, to this point, has taken Pacquiao's speed and power and has turned them against him. We've seen Pacquiao improved, but we've seen that he still technically flawed, and against MOsley he threw himself off balance a few times while being in the "dangerzone" where Marquez in their previous bouts really capitalized. I think Manny gets in those positions less and Marquez is a little slower on the trigger so maybe it will be a blow out, but there is a better chance this fight would be competitive whereas PAcquiao-Ortiz would be more of a quick blow out. Whereas I think Floyd handles JMM much better than Manny, but Ortiz is a bigger challenge for him.
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
Manny has got faster the hits a lot harder since the last JMM saw him in the ring. His skills set went up to the next level. Manny don't always rush in. He can walk an opponent down too. And he can clearly take a solid punch. I'm not implying anything ;D, but this is a different Manny.
I think Ortiz will be a better opponent. A losing opponent. But better!
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.
So, what you're saying is that you would have preferred to see Manny in with Ortiz all other things being equal.
As Taeth and Finito said, all things being equal, JMM at 145 is tougher FOR Manny than Ortiz at 147.
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
I don't know if Marquez is necessarily harder at that weight. I think Ortiz will cause Mayweather some problems though, so what do I know :-\
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
Basically what we have is Manny fighting a guy who is starting to look older at a weight that they aren't comfortable with.
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.
So, what you're saying is that you would have preferred to see Manny in with Ortiz all other things being equal.
As Taeth and Finito said, all things being equal, JMM at 145 is tougher FOR Manny than Ortiz at 147.
No it isn't, Marquez is way on his way down the slide and so fighting 10 pounds north of a weight that he is pretty much maxed out at is just daft.
Marquez will get blown out inside of 5 rounds this time around. I really don't undersatnd why these two still remain linked just beacuse they had two close fights at 126 & 130.... But now 145?!
Manny has moved way off Marquez' radar IMO, Ortiz might of been killed by Pac-Man but Marquez is gonna get killed, quickly.
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.
So, what you're saying is that you would have preferred to see Manny in with Ortiz all other things being equal.
As Taeth and Finito said, all things being equal, JMM at 145 is tougher FOR Manny than Ortiz at 147.
No it isn't, Marquez is way on his way down the slide and so fighting 10 pounds north of a weight that he is pretty much maxed out at is just daft.
Marquez will get blown out inside of 5 rounds this time around. I really don't undersatnd why these two still remain linked just beacuse they had two close fights at 126 & 130.... But now 145?!
Manny has moved way off Marquez' radar IMO, Ortiz might of been killed by Pac-Man but Marquez is gonna get killed, quickly.
That's a fair opinion. We can agree to disagree.
The question was which one would have been a tougher fight and from what I gather, you believe it would be Ortiz.
Marquez as only been seen once above 135 and that was against Mayweather who is the world's best fighter at that weight. IMO that doesn't mean he is ineffective against other people above 135, especially against another boxer who he has had a lot of success against. I also believe that sometimes a boxer just has another boxer's number and that Marquez just has Manny's number to an extent.
Recall also that Marquez came into the fight against Kastidis at 145 even though the fight was at lightweight and that Pacquiao came into the fight against Mosley at 145 (right?). So in a way even though they were fighting at two different weight classes they still weighed the same come time for their last fights. I can see the argument that Marquez isn't as effective at 145 regardless of what weight class he is fighting in. He had more trouble with Kastidis than I thought he would.
Re: Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.
So, what you're saying is that you would have preferred to see Manny in with Ortiz all other things being equal.
As Taeth and Finito said, all things being equal, JMM at 145 is tougher FOR Manny than Ortiz at 147.
No it isn't, Marquez is way on his way down the slide and so fighting 10 pounds north of a weight that he is pretty much maxed out at is just daft.
Marquez will get blown out inside of 5 rounds this time around. I really don't undersatnd why these two still remain linked just beacuse they had two close fights at 126 & 130.... But now 145?!
Manny has moved way off Marquez' radar IMO, Ortiz might of been killed by Pac-Man but Marquez is gonna get killed, quickly.
That's a fair opinion. We can agree to disagree.
The question was which one would have been a tougher fight and from what I gather, you believe it would be Ortiz.
Marquez as only been seen once above 135 and that was against Mayweather who is the world's best fighter at that weight. IMO that doesn't mean he is ineffective against other people above 135, especially against another boxer who he has had a lot of success against. I also believe that sometimes a boxer just has another boxer's number and that Marquez just has Manny's number to an extent.
Recall also that Marquez came into the fight against Kastidis at 145 even though the fight was at lightweight and that Pacquiao came into the fight against Mosley at 145 (right?). So in a way even though they were fighting at two different weight classes they still weighed the same come time for their last fights. I can see the argument that Marquez isn't as effective at 145 regardless of what weight class he is fighting in. He had more trouble with Kastidis than I thought he would.
In your honest opinion. Who do you think is gonna win?...
Pacquiao or Marquez?
