Would Ortiz have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez?

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.

[Rantcatrat]

Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.

So, what you're saying is that you would have preferred to see Manny in with Ortiz all other things being equal.

As Taeth and Finito said, all things being equal, JMM at 145 is tougher FOR Manny than Ortiz at 147.

[JazMerkin]

I don't know if Marquez is necessarily harder at that weight. I think Ortiz will cause Mayweather some problems though, so what do I know

[AdamGB]

Basically what we have is Manny fighting a guy who is starting to look older at a weight that they aren't comfortable with.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.

So, what you're saying is that you would have preferred to see Manny in with Ortiz all other things being equal.

As Taeth and Finito said, all things being equal, JMM at 145 is tougher FOR Manny than Ortiz at 147.

No it isn't, Marquez is way on his way down the slide and so fighting 10 pounds north of a weight that he is pretty much maxed out at is just daft.

Marquez will get blown out inside of 5 rounds this time around. I really don't undersatnd why these two still remain linked just beacuse they had two close fights at 126 & 130.... But now 145?!

Manny has moved way off Marquez' radar IMO, Ortiz might of been killed by Pac-Man but Marquez is gonna get killed, quickly.

[Rantcatrat]

Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.

So, what you're saying is that you would have preferred to see Manny in with Ortiz all other things being equal.

As Taeth and Finito said, all things being equal, JMM at 145 is tougher FOR Manny than Ortiz at 147.

No it isn't, Marquez is way on his way down the slide and so fighting 10 pounds north of a weight that he is pretty much maxed out at is just daft.

Marquez will get blown out inside of 5 rounds this time around. I really don't undersatnd why these two still remain linked just beacuse they had two close fights at 126 & 130.... But now 145?!

Manny has moved way off Marquez' radar IMO, Ortiz might of been killed by Pac-Man but Marquez is gonna get killed, quickly.

That's a fair opinion. We can agree to disagree.

The question was which one would have been a tougher fight and from what I gather, you believe it would be Ortiz.

Marquez as only been seen once above 135 and that was against Mayweather who is the world's best fighter at that weight. IMO that doesn't mean he is ineffective against other people above 135, especially against another boxer who he has had a lot of success against. I also believe that sometimes a boxer just has another boxer's number and that Marquez just has Manny's number to an extent.

Recall also that Marquez came into the fight against Kastidis at 145 even though the fight was at lightweight and that Pacquiao came into the fight against Mosley at 145 (right?). So in a way even though they were fighting at two different weight classes they still weighed the same come time for their last fights. I can see the argument that Marquez isn't as effective at 145 regardless of what weight class he is fighting in. He had more trouble with Kastidis than I thought he would.

[:::PSL:::]

Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.

So, what you're saying is that you would have preferred to see Manny in with Ortiz all other things being equal.

As Taeth and Finito said, all things being equal, JMM at 145 is tougher FOR Manny than Ortiz at 147.

No it isn't, Marquez is way on his way down the slide and so fighting 10 pounds north of a weight that he is pretty much maxed out at is just daft.

Marquez will get blown out inside of 5 rounds this time around. I really don't undersatnd why these two still remain linked just beacuse they had two close fights at 126 & 130.... But now 145?!

Manny has moved way off Marquez' radar IMO, Ortiz might of been killed by Pac-Man but Marquez is gonna get killed, quickly.

That's a fair opinion. We can agree to disagree.

The question was which one would have been a tougher fight and from what I gather, you believe it would be Ortiz.

Marquez as only been seen once above 135 and that was against Mayweather who is the world's best fighter at that weight. IMO that doesn't mean he is ineffective against other people above 135, especially against another boxer who he has had a lot of success against. I also believe that sometimes a boxer just has another boxer's number and that Marquez just has Manny's number to an extent.

Recall also that Marquez came into the fight against Kastidis at 145 even though the fight was at lightweight and that Pacquiao came into the fight against Mosley at 145 (right?). So in a way even though they were fighting at two different weight classes they still weighed the same come time for their last fights. I can see the argument that Marquez isn't as effective at 145 regardless of what weight class he is fighting in. He had more trouble with Kastidis than I thought he would.

In your honest opinion. Who do you think is gonna win?...

Pacquiao or Marquez?

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.

So, what you're saying is that you would have preferred to see Manny in with Ortiz all other things being equal.

As Taeth and Finito said, all things being equal, JMM at 145 is tougher FOR Manny than Ortiz at 147.

No it isn't, Marquez is way on his way down the slide and so fighting 10 pounds north of a weight that he is pretty much maxed out at is just daft.

Marquez will get blown out inside of 5 rounds this time around. I really don't undersatnd why these two still remain linked just beacuse they had two close fights at 126 & 130.... But now 145?!

Manny has moved way off Marquez' radar IMO, Ortiz might of been killed by Pac-Man but Marquez is gonna get killed, quickly.

That's a fair opinion. We can agree to disagree.

The question was which one would have been a tougher fight and from what I gather, you believe it would be Ortiz.

Marquez as only been seen once above 135 and that was against Mayweather who is the world's best fighter at that weight. IMO that doesn't mean he is ineffective against other people above 135, especially against another boxer who he has had a lot of success against. I also believe that sometimes a boxer just has another boxer's number and that Marquez just has Manny's number to an extent.

Recall also that Marquez came into the fight against Kastidis at 145 even though the fight was at lightweight and that Pacquiao came into the fight against Mosley at 145 (right?). So in a way even though they were fighting at two different weight classes they still weighed the same come time for their last fights. I can see the argument that Marquez isn't as effective at 145 regardless of what weight class he is fighting in. He had more trouble with Kastidis than I thought he would.

I am curious as to why Marquez would rehydrate to 145 if he does not think that's his ideal fighting weight. What was his fighting weight in his last 5 fights? Does anyone know?

[Rantcatrat]

Recall also that Marquez came into the fight against Kastidis at 145 even though the fight was at lightweight and that Pacquiao came into the fight against Mosley at 145 (right?)

I am curious as to why Marquez would rehydrate to 145 if he does not think that's his ideal fighting weight. What was his fighting weight in his last 5 fights? Does anyone know?

Well, my thinking is that take Ortiz, Ortiz weighs in at 147, but on the night of the fight, he weighs 160ish. That would be a big weight disadvantage if you were Marquez. However, in Pacquiao's case he comes in at 145ish too. So, it's not the same disadvantage as it would be with other welterweights.

[Gandalf]

Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.

Exactly, this 144 or whatever is smoke and mirrors to make it look like Manny was the better fighter. It is utter bollocks though. You bring a man up 2 weight classes at 38 after beating a 39 year old? Pac is a joke really.

Ortiz would have been the better opponent all things considered. Marquez looked weathered last time out against Diaz and simply looked awful fighting Mayweather at a ridiculous weight.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Marquez would only be a better opponent if he was fighting @ 140 or below.

Exactly, this 144 or whatever is smoke and mirrors to make it look like Manny was the better fighter. It is utter bollocks though. You bring a man up 2 weight classes at 38 after beating a 39 year old? Pac is a joke really.

Ortiz would have been the better opponent all things considered. Marquez looked weathered last time out against Diaz and simply looked awful fighting Mayweather at a ridiculous weight.

It seems to have just been recently that posters here had been clamoring for Pacquiao to fight either Marquez, Berto or Bradley instead of Mosley. I don't even recall Ortiz name being mentioned. Now, Ortiz becomes the better opponent.

In hindsight, Berto did not appear to be a worthy opponent after he was exposed by Ortiz. If Ortiz gets dominated by Mayweather, people would be saying that he would not have been that good of an opponent either for Manny.

The bottom line is that there is no other challenging opponents out there for both Manny and Floyd (don't even bring Martinez to this discussion, he has to fight opponents his own size or higher if he wishes) ....... unless either of them shows some drasctic signs of aging.

[Spicoli]

The sticker with me is the weight and JMM coming in bulky, beefy and slowed. He should just come in 'natural' and if he's under a couple vs Manny so be it. In the name of style effectiveness and stamina on those 'been there, done that' legs & body. I can live with this fight. It has the history factor and rivalry.

Ortiz while redeemed and clawed back from the 'almost was' heep vs Berto, is just a fiery guy with glaring flaws that a Mayweather and or Manny will dissect. Same with all the talk of Berto meeting these two prior. I'd hate to be the one doing Andres dirty laundry after a match with Manny. Ortiz has a punchers chance against anyone and a seemingly new found fire in the belly. Being doubted and scoffed at will do that for a fighter but he struggles to even position correctly as a southpaw and still gets rocked and dropped with wind up right hands.

[shza]

Ortiz absolutely would have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez.

W/r/t Marquez, it's not even a weight issue. They could fight at 135 and it would be an utter mismatch because JMM has simply lost a few steps since the two great fights with Pac years ago. IMO, JMM loses to Guerrero and possibly even Rios at 135 today -- forget Manny at 147. This fight is a complete joke and would never be considered legitimate if not for the two fights a long time ago when Manny was worse and JMM was better.

JMM got pasted with shots and had to work his ass off just to get by Katsidis, who is serviceable at best (and got utterly dominated by Guerrero his next time out).

JMM isn't "shot" but he is not a P4P fighter at all any more, and everyone will see that when this fight happens. Just putting this out there now because I know that when I say this again after the fight, there will be a million responses of "you're just saying this now -- everyone thought this was a great rubber match before it happened," etc.

This is not to say that Ortiz is some kind of world-beater and certainly not to say he's on the level of a *prime* (i.e., 5 years ago) Marquez. But at least he brings size and strength to the table, whereas I think today's Marquez brings next to nothing besides heart.

[Rantcatrat]

Ortiz absolutely would have been a better opponent for Manny than Marquez.

W/r/t Marquez, it's not even a weight issue. They could fight at 135 and it would be an utter mismatch because JMM has simply lost a few steps since the two great fights with Pac years ago. IMO, JMM loses to Guerrero and possibly even Rios at 135 today -- forget Manny at 147. This fight is a complete joke and would never be considered legitimate if not for the two fights a long time ago when Manny was worse and JMM was better.

JMM got pasted with shots and had to work his ass off just to get by Katsidis, who is serviceable at best (and got utterly dominated by Guerrero his next time out).

JMM isn't "shot" but he is not a P4P fighter at all any more, and everyone will see that when this fight happens. Just putting this out there now because I know that when I say this again after the fight, there will be a million responses of "you're just saying this now -- everyone thought this was a great rubber match before it happened," etc.

This is not to say that Ortiz is some kind of world-beater and certainly not to say he's on the level of a *prime* (i.e., 5 years ago) Marquez. But at least he brings size and strength to the table, whereas I think today's Marquez brings next to nothing besides heart.

Now see you make a very good point, Shza. JMM might just not be the fighter he was 2 years ago, the wars have taken their toll. My only thought is that even if a past-his-prime JMM, might still have the answer for Pacquiao. And you know if he has one more fight in him, Pacquiao will bring it out. But, you may very well be correct in your theory.

[Pavlik]

Yep, Ortiz is a better match up and PAC gets more credit for it, too late now though PBF beats him to the punch