Printable View
The latest is that Andy Pettitte is going to implicate him in his statement to Congress tomorrow. Already everyone but a handful of fans must think he did it. It's going to destroy any chance he has of making the Hall of Fame and generally fuck the rest of his life up. That's if he doesn't end up in prison on perjury charges. Tomorrow is going to be compulsive viewing.
yeah man, he's completely screwed.. I mean, put yourself in his position right now, and suppose you did NOT use HGH or steroids.. i find it hard to believe that you would not find a way to convince everyone that you were innocent.. give me a break..Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
There would be ZERO ambiguity if he was innocent, end of story.
If Pettite does testify and fingers him
Whoof,he's toast
Shame,just like Bonds his HOF numbers were allready assured when his ego got in the way
The economy is in in shambles and we're mired in an un-winnable war. What does congress do? Investigate sports. What a bunch of a**holes.
The thing I do not understand is, is how come there is no regular steroid test rule being used currently? As far as i know there is no such thing.. Am i wrong?
They started regular testing at the beginning of last season IIRC. However there's still no test for things like HGH. The only way to know for certain if they've been using HGH is if their head gets bigger, like Barry. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by RP33
Now the latest is there's independent evidence as well as Pettitte and McNamee :
WASHINGTON — Roger Clemens will be confronted with a new and damaging affidavit from Andy Pettitte when he appears before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform on Wednesday, two lawyers familiar with the matter said late Tuesday as Clemens made final preparations to testify that he never took performance-enhancing drugs.
Clemens will also be asked about corroborating information that committee staff members developed on their own that ties Clemens to such drugs, the lawyers said. That information, they said, stands separate and apart from the assertions made about Clemens by his former personal trainer, Brian McNamee, who contends that he injected Clemens with steroids and human growth hormone from 1998 to 2001.
“The committee is not messing around and has other damaging evidence against Roger,” one of the lawyers said.
The other lawyer said, “Andy said enough to really hurt Roger.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/sp...13clemens.html
....what do you care about baseball.....you hate America
Disagreeing with dumbass bigotry isn't the same thing as hating America. America isn't a big dumb racist white boy, it's a secular liberal democracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Clemens is going to face charges after today. There's no way they can indict Barry Bonds and not charge Clemens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
That's my gripe with this whole thing... How can you say these guys don't belong in the HOF, when they have never tested positive for any banned substance.. Until last year there was no proper testing in place, and steroids have been commonplace in baseball for YEARS. How can you fault individuals entirely, and not put any of the blame on the commissioner. Bud Selig has known exactly what has been going on with steroids for years and years. He just turned a blind eye because guys were hitting a lot of home runs. I definetly do have some sympathy for these guys on a professional level. If other players they are competing against are on steroids, and there are 0 consequences, can you really blame them?? I mean god knows how many lesser known baseball players have been juicing or still are. They'll never get chastised for it. And sure, that's natural, that people look to big names to place the blame. But for christ sake when it's such a deep seeded problem that has affected the sport for so long and yet hasn't even been adressed until recently, why not hold an inquiry into Bud Selig for fuk's sake?? I mean I know why, because he's connected. But it's baffling that more people don't realize it's the commisioner at fault.
there is a good chance that the dapartment of justice will look into conducting a perjury investigation
clemens and mcnamie had every possible difference in their testimonies, and its clear to ANYONE that someone is telling many lies
i would guess clemens gets hit with the charges, as the only representatives that got in mcnamies face were calling him a liar based on past actions, they were essentially saying he would lie to save himself from jail and didnt make the connection that he is once again avoiding jail, there was on douchebag from like indiana who was like try9ing to argue mcnamie is a habitual liar or something
also almost EVERY member of the committee agreed that they believed pettite and found him to be the most credible character involved
the main argument against mcnamie was a mention in the mitchell report that mcnamie had seen clemens at a party at jose cansecos house in like 1998, it didnt have anything to do with steroid use but the argument was that it showed the mitchell report wasnt completely accurate, as there were many people whoi said that clemens was NOT at this party, and clemens found some receipt from some golf course that he was at on the day of the party, mcnamie suggested that clemens old nanny, who he saw at the party, would remember him being there, so the committee asked clemens to give them her contact information, it took him like a week and he had already met with her in person before he gave them her contact information
also what she said was that he may have been at the party
also clemens argument he kept repeating was that if pettite had thought clemens was on HGH he would have asked him about it before he started using it... which was a HORRIBL:E argument, cuz what clemens was adding this comment to was a suggestion that pettite misunderstood something he had said, and falsely believed clemens had used HGH, so clemens essentially said, 'he must have thought i told him i used it, cuz i didnt tell him that... if he thought i was on it he would have talked to me about it, which he didnt'
clemens is clearly a moron, the house wanted to be done with the whole mitchell report, but he insisted they allow him this chance, so he could have EASILY just SFTU and nobody would have EVER punished him in any way, cuz its clear to me that bud selig, who people seem to think was angry about the bonds incident, will NEVER take away someones right to be in the HOF based on steroid allegations, clemens would have lost nothing by keeping his mouth shut, instead he went on 60 minutes, and insisted on testifying under oath, there was probably a LARGE amount of people in this country who had heard nothing about clemens being implicated until he started protesting, and now he may have even fucked himself into jail time
fuck bonds and fuck clemens, its bad enough to cheat but to lie about it after youve been caught makes it far worse
And behold, we see the reasoningQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Perjury is extremely difficult to prove even in this case or in any case...to find SOLID permissible evidence to prove someone has lied is a hard thing to do considering you have to prove it BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Even with Andy Petitte's testimony all a lawyer would have to counter with is "I am sure you're a nice person, and you're trying to do the right thing by informing the jury of what happened all those years ago, but is there any possibility you may have simply misunderstood or wrongly remembered the conversation you had with Mr. Clemens" odds are Petitte is going to say "I guess" or something to that effect which should be enough to cause doubt and therefore you're off the hook so to speak.
And Kirkland, America isn't a "secular liberal democracy"...America is a Constitutional Republic we elect our leaders who vote FOR us on certain issues and that is a Republic....they abide (for the most part) to the Constitution in their decision making and via a system of checks and balances. But I do agree, voting IS democratic, and our leaders are secular in that we don't have religious laws passed (not yet), and some of our representatives are liberal.
There's more evidence from unimpeachable sources like Pettitte and his wife against Clemens than there is against Bonds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Glad you agree with me that America is a secular liberal democracy.
Oh really? So we CAN trust Brian MacNamee but we CAN'T trust Victor Conte or Greg Anderson......yyyyyyeah
You're not supposed to make the other guy's argument for them in a debate you know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Similarly compromised people in both cases but far more evidence from uncompromised credible witnessess in Clemens' case. Even the Bush DOJ can't avoid indicting Clemens, unless of course they want to turn it into an election issue.
Im a fan of the Rocket,but I gotta admit,he looks guilty as sin on the face of it,its Pettite and Knoblauchs testimony that I find damning as hell
All I am saying is that if Clemens goes to trial on perjury charges it will be a very hard case to make. Obviously SOMEONE is lying and right now it looks like Clemens BUT not beyond a reasonable doubt.
I am no Clemens fan because he went to New York after Boston was done with him and being a die hard Red Sox fan I despise all Yankee players....I haven't even forgiven Wade Boggs yet! But looking at this case in a courtroom setting it would still be hard to judge...cross-exanimations would be a huge benefit to figuring this cloudy stuff out but it could also make things less clear.
Clemens and Bonds and MIGUEL TEJADA are all up shit's creek as it is right now