Roger Clemens, steroid user.

[El Kabong]

Clemens is going to face charges after today. There's no way they can indict Barry Bonds and not charge Clemens.

And behold, we see the reasoning

Perjury is extremely difficult to prove even in this case or in any case...to find SOLID permissible evidence to prove someone has lied is a hard thing to do considering you have to prove it BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Even with Andy Petitte's testimony all a lawyer would have to counter with is "I am sure you're a nice person, and you're trying to do the right thing by informing the jury of what happened all those years ago, but is there any possibility you may have simply misunderstood or wrongly remembered the conversation you had with Mr. Clemens" odds are Petitte is going to say "I guess" or something to that effect which should be enough to cause doubt and therefore you're off the hook so to speak.

And Kirkland, America isn't a "secular liberal democracy"...America is a Constitutional Republic we elect our leaders who vote FOR us on certain issues and that is a Republic....they abide (for the most part) to the Constitution in their decision making and via a system of checks and balances. But I do agree, voting IS democratic, and our leaders are secular in that we don't have religious laws passed (not yet), and some of our representatives are liberal.

[Kirkland Laing]

And behold, we see the reasoning

Perjury is extremely difficult to prove even in this case or in any case...to find SOLID permissible evidence to prove someone has lied is a hard thing to do considering you have to prove it BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Even with Andy Petitte's testimony all a lawyer would have to counter with is "I am sure you're a nice person, and you're trying to do the right thing by informing the jury of what happened all those years ago, but is there any possibility you may have simply misunderstood or wrongly remembered the conversation you had with Mr. Clemens" odds are Petitte is going to say "I guess" or something to that effect which should be enough to cause doubt and therefore you're off the hook so to speak.

And Kirkland, America isn't a "secular liberal democracy"...America is a Constitutional Republic we elect our leaders who vote FOR us on certain issues and that is a Republic....they abide (for the most part) to the Constitution in their decision making and via a system of checks and balances. But I do agree, voting IS democratic, and our leaders are secular in that we don't have religious laws passed (not yet), and some of our representatives are liberal.

There's more evidence from unimpeachable sources like Pettitte and his wife against Clemens than there is against Bonds.

Glad you agree with me that America is a secular liberal democracy.

[El Kabong]

Oh really? So we CAN trust Brian MacNamee but we CAN'T trust Victor Conte or Greg Anderson......yyyyyyeah

[Kirkland Laing]

Oh really? So we CAN trust Brian MacNamee but we CAN'T trust Victor Conte or Greg Anderson......yyyyyyeah

You're not supposed to make the other guy's argument for them in a debate you know.

Similarly compromised people in both cases but far more evidence from uncompromised credible witnessess in Clemens' case. Even the Bush DOJ can't avoid indicting Clemens, unless of course they want to turn it into an election issue.

[Trainer Monkey]

Im a fan of the Rocket,but I gotta admit,he looks guilty as sin on the face of it,its Pettite and Knoblauchs testimony that I find damning as hell

[El Kabong]

All I am saying is that if Clemens goes to trial on perjury charges it will be a very hard case to make. Obviously SOMEONE is lying and right now it looks like Clemens BUT not beyond a reasonable doubt.

I am no Clemens fan because he went to New York after Boston was done with him and being a die hard Red Sox fan I despise all Yankee players....I haven't even forgiven Wade Boggs yet! But looking at this case in a courtroom setting it would still be hard to judge...cross-exanimations would be a huge benefit to figuring this cloudy stuff out but it could also make things less clear.

Clemens and Bonds and MIGUEL TEJADA are all up shit's creek as it is right now