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If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
Knowing what we know now and by judging what we have seen, do you think if Tony would have just let his hands go, that he would have beat Williams?
I was going to create a poll but, I don't see how. I checked poll option below but no bars showed so I could enter any poll information.
Anyway, we have a pretty good thing going here if the following happens.
If Tony beats Cintron and many are picking Tony to win and if Williams beats the Q, we just might see a rematch even though punk ass Williams did not give Tony his rematch like Q did for Williams. I would like to see Tony vs Williams only this time, I would like to see Tony let his hands go. I think if he does let those hands go, he can beat Williams.
Your thoughts?
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
I think Margarito was hurt more by his slow start rather by not letting his hands go. But I don't think we'll see Margarito-Williams 2. Cuz I don't think Williams can beat Quintana.
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
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Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
I think Margarito was hurt more by his slow start rather by not letting his hands go. But I don't think we'll see Margarito-Williams 2. Cuz I don't think Williams can beat Quintana.
Well my post is a bit hypothetical but it will be sort of ironic if Tony wins and Quintana wins. Williams will be BEGING some one for a rematch and no doubt he will try to call out Tony, which I think since Williams did him dirty I think Tony should return the favor ;D
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
Williams won it from the early rounds IMO.
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
I don't think Quintana's win says much about Tony's loss. Quintana had success punching in between Williams punches and that's not how Margarito fights.
Now obviously if Tony was more active then the fight would be different, but there is a scenario like that for every fight. He was beat to the punch most of the night and Williams was the first guy Tony ever faced who did beat him to the punch consistently, that's why the hands weren't moving and that's why he lost the fight.
So maybe, but like I said there is a scenario like that for every fight and it's hardly relevant if Williams lost to Quintana or not because even if Margarito were to win, it wouldn't have been for the same reasons that Quintana did.
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
If Margarito would have started 1 DAMN! round sooner he would have won. It was the late start that hurt him....
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
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Originally Posted by
Danny_G
Knowing what we know now and by judging what we have seen, do you think if Tony would have just let his hands go, that he would have beat Williams?
Absolutely. In fact that's what I was yelling at the TV the entire fight. Although Williams's style was a problem for Tony, he really doesn't have the power to hurt him so I think Tony could have safely been much more aggressive. Also, I don't know if he just had a bad night, but he looked unusually slow and sluggish against Williams. If you watch the Golden Johnson fight, he just seemed a lot more energetic and aggressive. Maybe he didn't train 100% for Williams?
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
I think Margarito's punches were too wide and long.....Williams just got him with sheer volume. Had Toni connected then it would have been a different story
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
The slow start haunted Margarito.It was a yell at the screen fight for me as He waited in the first few rounds and Williams rolled into his mega multi punch pattern but Margarito was carrying the power to affect The glaring decent chin of williams if he would have put them together.The cut also had Paul bothered and vulnerable.
Personally I would not mind a rematch with Margarito but I don't see Williams staying at Welter regardless of Quintana outcome.He looked slow,drawn and all to there to be tagged by Quintana who had him from the word go Imo.
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
That is what plagues Tony at times. He starts slow and waits and waits...
Then in the next fight he comes out like a fireball and overwhelms his opponent. If he only would do the punches in punches routine every fight, he would knock all his opponents into a defensive shell and either outwork them or KO them.
One of the most frustrating guys to watch for sure. We all know the powerful physical gifts he possesses, but sometimes he just does not use them. He then loses a fight that you know he could have won. Bitter F*cking aftertaste for sure.
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
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Originally Posted by
Deanrw
That is what plagues Tony at times. He starts slow and waits and waits...
Then in the night fight he comes out like a fireball and overwhelms his opponent. If he only would do the punches in punches routine every fight, he would knock all his opponents into a defensive shell and either outwork them or KO them.
One of the most frustrating guys to watch for sure. We all know the powerful physical gifts he possesses, but sometimes he just does not use them. He then loses a fight that you know he could have won. Bitter F*cking aftertaste for sure.
Well said. Tony's one of my favorite fighters but if I had to describe him in a word it would be: inconsistent.
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deanrw
That is what plagues Tony at times. He starts slow and waits and waits...
Then in the next fight he comes out like a fireball and overwhelms his opponent. If he only would do the punches in punches routine every fight, he would knock all his opponents into a defensive shell and either outwork them or KO them.
One of the most frustrating guys to watch for sure. We all know the powerful physical gifts he possesses, but sometimes he just does not use them. He then loses a fight that you know he could have won. Bitter F*cking aftertaste for sure.
I was just watching an interview where he promises never to start slow again. He said he is going to come out swinging from the first bell. I think Kermit is going to get knocked out again. :o
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
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Originally Posted by
Danny_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deanrw
That is what plagues Tony at times. He starts slow and waits and waits...
Then in the next fight he comes out like a fireball and overwhelms his opponent. If he only would do the punches in punches routine every fight, he would knock all his opponents into a defensive shell and either outwork them or KO them.
One of the most frustrating guys to watch for sure. We all know the powerful physical gifts he possesses, but sometimes he just does not use them. He then loses a fight that you know he could have won. Bitter F*cking aftertaste for sure.
I was just watching an interview where he promises never to start slow again. He said he is going to come out swinging from the first bell. I think Kermit is going to get knocked out again. :o
If he sticks by that promise, he'll end up fighting Cotto. Fight of the Decade anyone?;D Two of my favorites in the ring together trading bombs. It just does not get better than that. To me that would be like Miranda vs Pavlik supercharged..
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Danny_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Deanrw
That is what plagues Tony at times. He starts slow and waits and waits...
Then in the next fight he comes out like a fireball and overwhelms his opponent. If he only would do the punches in punches routine every fight, he would knock all his opponents into a defensive shell and either outwork them or KO them.
One of the most frustrating guys to watch for sure. We all know the powerful physical gifts he possesses, but sometimes he just does not use them. He then loses a fight that you know he could have won. Bitter F*cking aftertaste for sure.
I was just watching an interview where he promises never to start slow again. He said he is going to come out swinging from the first bell. I think Kermit is going to get knocked out again. :o
Indeed,He wont be taking knees on his own this time.....He'll get posted cord wood style.Cintron has all the tools but his mind is full of self concern I believe,He will be having battle field flashbacks and caught once again in between his "wanting" to do something and his worry about what will come back at him...........Imo of course;D
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
It was certainly the late start that hurt him..not letting his hands go early...He was never hurt or in no way dominated...Tony beat Tony that night.....Margarito has never been soundly beaten since like 97 or 98 and if not mistaken had just started fighting in the states.....
If Tony beats Cintron..(he will)...Williams will want a shot at him no matter if he loses to Quintana again or not because he thinks he is a better fighter then Tony
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
I think the only reason he was able to pick up the pace in the first fight is because Paul slowed a bit. He couldn't fight at a faster pace with 100+ punches hitting him flush in the face every round wether they were pitty pat or not.
Quintana was a different animal. He never stood in front of him long enough for him to get into a rythm and countered beatifully. Tony did the right thing fighting Cintron and not Quintana because he has a much better chance with Cintron and he'll likely get his chance at a good payday with Cotto if he wins.
Tony can't beat Quintana.
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
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Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
If Margarito would have started 1 DAMN! round sooner he would have won. It was the late start that hurt him....
Agreed i was screaming at the TV to let em go!!!
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
if he let his hands go early i feel he could of won, but i don't think it would be as easy as that. williams workrate prevented him from throwing plenty. it was when williams slowed down that margarito was able to get his shots off
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
Margarito lost that fight,I said it at the time and I still believe it. Not many people mention but he showed tremendous improvement with his defence. I mean I was wowed by the amount of punches he was blocking,it was awesome but he didn't know how to combine that with counter punching so what ended up happening is that he was blockingthrowing 10(which were much harder than Pauls) but PW was throwing like a million more.This is reflected in% landed,which were almost identical despite PW throwing hundreds more. Had he let his hands go but kept the good defence,he would have won that fight. PW seemed to be getting more and more drained with every fight.
I was also dissappointed because Tony didn't use the southpaw stance he uses at times,he dodn't go to teh body enough and yeah,he didn't let his hands go anywhere enough. I would still give PW the advantage because of the faster hands but if he slowed even a bit and if Tony starts faster,he can definitely win.
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
About Quintana i think he will win again in a rematch with Williams , but if he comes with other strategies , is possible that Williams readed his last fight , so if Quintana comes with something different he will win.....about Margarito i think he has difficulty to fight with southpaw boxer , that was ones of problems that he got including when he started late to have the lead of the fight........:cool:
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Re: If Tony would have just let his hands go, you think he would have beat Williams?
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Originally Posted by
El Gamo
Margarito lost that fight,I said it at the time and I still believe it. Not many people mention but he showed tremendous improvement with his defence. I mean I was wowed by the amount of punches he was blocking,it was awesome but he didn't know how to combine that with counter punching so what ended up happening is that he was blockingthrowing 10(which were much harder than Pauls) but PW was throwing like a million more.This is reflected in% landed,which were almost identical despite PW throwing hundreds more. Had he let his hands go but kept the good defence,he would have won that fight. PW seemed to be getting more and more drained with every fight.
I was also dissappointed because Tony didn't use the southpaw stance he uses at times,he dodn't go to teh body enough and yeah,he didn't let his hands go anywhere enough. I would still give PW the advantage because of the faster hands but if he slowed even a bit and if Tony starts faster,he can definitely win.
A lot factors came together for Tony to lose. You make a good point, Gamo, that Tony's defense was damn good in that fight. He was picking off punches left and right, but he couldn't transition from defense to offense. He might have focused too much on defense. That's one of the problems with using your hands all the time to block and defend. It doesn't create as many counterpunchering opportunities as slipping and using lateral movement. When a guy is throwning 100+ punchers per round and you are relying almost exclusively on your hands for defense, it hard to get your own punches off. You are too busy using them to parry and block.
You have two options against a guy like that. You need to either take the initiative and impose your will on the volume puncher, or you slip more so your hands are free to counter (like Quintana did). Even better, you do what Campbell did to Diaz and use aggression AND movement to beat the swarmer.
When Tony brought the fight to Williams and dictated the action he won rounds. When he let Williams dictate the action, Williams won rounds, even though he never really hurt Tony. Unfortunately for Tony, he let Williams dictate the action to him in more rounds.
