could Calzaghe end up higher than RJJ in the all time p4P list

its just a thought, he says he is only gona have one more fight, but at the same time is hinting there could be more to come.... Just wondered if u thought that it is possible for him to climb above RJJ in all time P4P list??

If he were to beat RJJ, Pavlik, Dawson and Tarver would that be enough for him to climb above RJJ??

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

If he were to beat RJJ, Pavlik, Dawson and Tarver would that be enough for him to climb above RJJ??

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Ofcourse.

Hehehei , that is if he beat Roy Jones Jr. and i doubt on that..........:cool:

so basicly wat you are saying is that Tarver is a better boxer that Calzaghe, because he made RJJ look silly in there fights!

i don't think that beating a past his best 40 year old roy jones after 43 year old b-hop makes him better, it will take more but he's left it a bit late, of course thats if he really does retire this year, if he keeps going then who knows

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

so basicly wat you are saying is that Tarver is a better boxer that Calzaghe, because he made RJJ look silly in there fights!

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OK gudnite , but that was in other Div......, Jones Jr. in 170 pnd. is too faster now , is more stronger and his power punch feels more devastating......;D

Absolutely not.

RJJ was a different class in his prime.

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Absolutely not.

RJJ was a different class in his prime.

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I second that...even though Calzaghe is a great fighter.

yes but an all time p4p list is not based on how much tallent a fighter has, it is what they have accomplished.. dont get me wrong all respect for Roy for winning the HW tittle but he had a hand picked champion who we all thought he'd beat..

wat im saying is, if Calzaghe beats RJJ, Pavlik, Dawson and Tarver has he basicly accomplished more in his career..

No.

why?

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

yes but an all time p4p list is not based on how much tallent a fighter has, it is what they have accomplished.. dont get me wrong all respect for Roy for winning the HW tittle but he had a hand picked champion who we all thought he'd beat..

wat im saying is, if Calzaghe beats RJJ, Pavlik, Dawson and Tarver has he basicly accomplished more in his career..

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fair point my friend but calzaghes had many hand picked opponents, his record of 21 defences is really largely just a number, there's 17,18 names on there that are just names, we all knew he'd beat them.......... atleast ruiz was a name, he's fought holyfield, rahman, tua, golota, james toney, toney tucker and roy jones... ok he's lost a few. if you talk about hand picked frank warren has served up many for joe

but i respect your opinain buddy

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

why?

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Cuz

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

why?

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Cuz

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Can anyone tell me why VD does not like Joe

No because P4P, Roy was at the top for years. Calzaghe never was. P4P draws a lot more from talent too, usually the guy at number 1 is regarded as the most talented fighter in the game. That's not the case with Calzaghe.

Sure, I was rooting for Calzaghe when he faced Hopkins and I agreed on the decision but somehow he didn't impress me. I didn't see a spark in his punches. Many seemed like slaps. To consider him an all great P4P it’s a bit too far in my opinion. I guess I'll have to go back and see past fights just in case "it was not his night" against Hopkins even though he won.

Isn't such a list just a matter of peoples personal opinions. Calzaghe should continue for as long as he feels in his prime. He could get many top names on his list and go down as an all time great. To compare the two is tricky as Roy Jones is past his best but was voted fighter of the decade in the 90's. How does that fair against Calzaghe's 10 year reign as champion fighting mainly people who wouldn't trouble him? This could be discussed till the end of days and still there won't be a full comprehensive decision!

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Absolutely not.

RJJ was a different class in his prime.

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100% AGREED.....JUst the version of Jones alone at 168 would not allow it...At 168 Jones was the closest thing to being an unbeatable fighter we may ever see...

Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Light Heavyweight and Heavyweight world titles...Not beaten until after his best days and after dropping over 20+lbs of muscle in a short amount of time

Hard to even dispute his greatness let alone compare it

In this video you see the very best of Jones on the Attack...The Jones in this Video beats ANY other fighter in the history of the game in a P4P prime for prime matchup

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RmDo12nEBp8

I wish Tarver met this version of Jones...We would have been done with him 15 seconds after the bell sounded

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

yes but an all time p4p list is not based on how much tallent a fighter has, it is what they have accomplished.. dont get me wrong all respect for Roy for winning the HW tittle but he had a hand picked champion who we all thought he'd beat..

wat im saying is, if Calzaghe beats RJJ, Pavlik, Dawson and Tarver has he basicly accomplished more in his career..

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It has to be based heavily on talent.. I mean of course achievements are factored in but if that were all it was based on the term would be completely meaningless. How could Calzaghe ever be above RJJ on an all time p4p list when he's never been the no.1 p4p fighter in the world, and Roy was for almost a decade? Not to mention it's fairly obvious to see he's nowhere near as good as Roy was.

Think of it this way...Robin Reid gave a prime Joe Calzaghe all he could handle. What would prime Roy Jones have done to Robin Reid? Jones was never troubled by a b-grade fighter like that. Even Tarver, love him or hate him, at his best is a class above most of Joe's fights. He's certainly a class above Reid.

No, Joe will never be considered greater than Jones.

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

yes but an all time p4p list is not based on how much tallent a fighter has, it is what they have accomplished.. dont get me wrong all respect for Roy for winning the HW tittle but he had a hand picked champion who we all thought he'd beat..

wat im saying is, if Calzaghe beats RJJ, Pavlik, Dawson and Tarver has he basicly accomplished more in his career..

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Everyone thought he'd beat Ruiz? Ummm sorry but I remember public opinion being divided, with a lot of people feeling that Jones bit off a lot more than he could chew fighting such a big guy. And lets not kid ourselves, Ruiz may be boring but he's no pushover, he was a good fighter who beat some good HWs. So for Roy to go up from 175 and dominate a 230lb HW champ is incredible, don't try to downplay that.

Roy Jones is still better p4p both in accomplishments and skill IMO. Calzaghe is an incredible fighter who is having an incredible career, but I think Jones has him notched.

Never

To answer the thread question...... No.

Roy Jones spent the better part of a decade as the best fighter in the world PFP. Calzaghe has most certainly not done that.

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Originally Posted by Chino

Sure, I was rooting for Calzaghe when he faced Hopkins and I agreed on the decision but somehow he didn't impress me. I didn't see a spark in his punches. Many seemed like slaps. To consider him an all great P4P it’s a bit too far in my opinion. I guess I'll have to go back and see past fights just in case "it was not his night" against Hopkins even though he won.

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the guy is 45-0 you cannot argue with stats.

I completely understand peoples right to say that RJJ is still ahead in the all time great rankings.

But to suggest that calzaghe shouldnt even be on that list is a joke, joe has dominated an entire division for a decade now, moved up a weight category to fight one of the all time greats, not fought that well as we know joe can fight yet still won.

I hope to god RJJ doesnt fight calzaghe, the man is way past his prime and JC is probably just as dominant as he has ever been and would probably end up completely outscoring jones.

I wanna remember the RJJ of yesteryear that gave us fight fans so many happy memorys, not a shadow of his former self getting beat up for a few extra bucks!!

I wouldn't be surprised if Jones actually beat Calzaghe now.

In answer to the thread.....

maybe if he beats Dawson, Pavlik, Tarver and Roy.

But he won't fight another 4 times, so no.

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

Think of it this way...Robin Reid gave a prime Joe Calzaghe all he could handle. What would prime Roy Jones have done to Robin Reid? Jones was never troubled by a b-grade fighter like that. Even Tarver, love him or hate him, at his best is a class above most of Joe's fights. He's certainly a class above Reid.

No, Joe will never be considered greater than Jones.

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right Joe may never be considered greater than Jones, but wouldnt agree that Tarvers a class above Reid, Reid was a great fighter in his day, yeah he should have retired long before he did, but in his prime he would have caused anyone problems, what makes Tarver that good? been lucky enough to catch Jones at the right time?

Ya'll Must've Forgot.

RJJ will forever be the best P4P for me.:cool:

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

its just a thought, he says he is only gona have one more fight, but at the same time is hinting there could be more to come.... Just wondered if u thought that it is possible for him to climb above RJJ in all time P4P list??

If he were to beat RJJ, Pavlik, Dawson and Tarver would that be enough for him to climb above RJJ??

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Although personally not a big Calzaghe fan I think it should put him up there but don't think it ever will.

RJJ's sheer fluid athleticism and awsome ability will keep him above Calzaghe nomatter what...

Do I think it's fair?
No...

Calzaghe has shaped into a great champion and God bless him but I think RJJ will always be ahead of him.:-\

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Originally Posted by Phil

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

Think of it this way...Robin Reid gave a prime Joe Calzaghe all he could handle. What would prime Roy Jones have done to Robin Reid? Jones was never troubled by a b-grade fighter like that. Even Tarver, love him or hate him, at his best is a class above most of Joe's fights. He's certainly a class above Reid.

No, Joe will never be considered greater than Jones.

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right Joe may never be considered greater than Jones, but wouldnt agree that Tarvers a class above Reid, Reid was a great fighter in his day, yeah he should have retired long before he did, but in his prime he would have caused anyone problems, what makes Tarver that good? been lucky enough to catch Jones at the right time?

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to be fair to joe, reid did put in the performance of his life that night, also remember his face looking a complete mess afterwards and JC coming on particularly strong late on.

that was 9 odd years ago and barring the hopkins fight nobody since then has even got close to beating joe and probably never will until he retires!!

You have to sit back and look at it all in context. Much of what Joe did up until 2006 is really a wash. He stayed in a weak division and fough mostly fringe opponents. It is a shame because he was then a better fighter than he is now. He could have made some real waves if he moved to 175 earlier.

Right now he will have a tough time beating the fighters you mention. It is not impossible though and if he does, people will look back on him favorably. Jones in his prime had that superman aura about him and it will be practically impossible to overcome.

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Absolutely not.

RJJ was a different class in his prime.

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RJJ never took chances in his prime so yes I think Calzaghe already is higher on my list than Jones.

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Absolutely not.

RJJ was a different class in his prime.

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RJJ never took chances in his prime so yes I think Calzaghe already is higher on my list than Jones.

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THEN YOU SIR ARE AN IDIOT !!!!
And need to be sectioned .

May i suggest a name change to LUCIFERTHEBELLEND

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Absolutely not.

RJJ was a different class in his prime.

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RJJ never took chances in his prime so yes I think Calzaghe already is higher on my list than Jones.

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During Jones LHW years the division was weak...The only real person he did not go and fight was Dariusz...And Jones was not traveling and neither was Daruisz (How ever you spell it)...so the fight being made was a stalemate...In his MW and SMW years he faced and beat...Hopkins, Pazienza, Tate, Toney, Byrd, and his early LHW years he faced,,,Grant, Griffin, McCallum, Hill (who at the time was very highly reguarded),...all world class fighters of the time he faced them...

That is not the resume of a guy who did not face anyone....as much as I like Joe those names alone equal if not surpass his resume...And those were just a portion of Jones acomplishments....Plus he eventually went on to be HW champion

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Absolutely not.

RJJ was a different class in his prime.

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RJJ never took chances in his prime so yes I think Calzaghe already is higher on my list than Jones.

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THEN YOU SIR ARE AN IDIOT !!!!
And need to be sectioned .

May i suggest a name change to LUCIFERTHEBELLEND

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Ha Ha Ha...Al you crack me up...Have some rep

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Absolutely not.

RJJ was a different class in his prime.

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RJJ never took chances in his prime so yes I think Calzaghe already is higher on my list than Jones.

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Exactly what chances did Calzaghe take in his prime?

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Absolutely not.

RJJ was a different class in his prime.

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RJJ never took chances in his prime so yes I think Calzaghe already is higher on my list than Jones.

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Exactly what chances did Calzaghe take in his prime?

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Bika;D

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Absolutely not.

RJJ was a different class in his prime.

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RJJ never took chances in his prime so yes I think Calzaghe already is higher on my list than Jones.

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Exactly what chances did Calzaghe take in his prime?

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Tucker Pudwill

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

RJJ never took chances in his prime so yes I think Calzaghe already is higher on my list than Jones.

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Exactly what chances did Calzaghe take in his prime?

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Tucker Pudwill

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Ya, fighting Tucker was a big risk, although I'm not sure if it was as risky as fighting Branko Sobot.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

Exactly what chances did Calzaghe take in his prime?

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Tucker Pudwill

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Ya, fighting Tucker was a big risk, although I'm not sure if it was as risky as fighting Branko Sobot.

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Well the great Mario Veit gave him such a hard fight the first time that Calzaghe decided to rematch him again. What a warrior.