An Open Letter to Richard Schaefer: From: Nate Campbell

An Open Letter to Richard Schaefer: From: Nate Campbell

I just read an interview where you asked the question “is Nate Campbell only good at giving interviews, or is he willing to fight somebody the caliber of Marquez?”.You should really think before you open your fat mouth. Who the hell are you to question my heart as a fighter? See, if you were actually a boxing guy, and not just some suit that by chance happened to marry someone in Oscar’s family, then you’d have sense enough not to say something like that about a fighter. Especially about a World Champion. But you just don’t know any better. Well, I’ve got a question for you too Richard. Do you actually know how to promote a show, or do you just have to wait every time for HBO to pull out their nipple for you to nurse on? When’s the last time your company actually promoted a fight on it’s own? Or do you just beg for HBO dates, and site fees, and call yourself a promoter? And don’t try and take credit for Oscar-Floyd, and Floyd-Hatton, and other high dollar shows. You didn’t promote those fights, HBO did.

If you think for one second that I’m gonna sit around till November waiting for Marquez, then you’re even dumber than you look. Sure, it’s an attractive fight, and one I would take, but I don’t need to sit around and wait for Marquez, or anyone else for that matter. See, my thing is this. I have a REAL promoter, one who doesn’t just close up shop just because no tv dates happen to be available. As soon as this WBO mess is cleared up, I’ll be fighting SOMEBODY. If you’d like that somebody to be Marquez, then give Don a number, get out of the way, and let a REAL promoter do the fight in July-August. But you know what? You won’t do that. That’s not in Golden Boys’ “best interest”. What’s in your best interest is making Pac-Juan Diaz in November or December. So you try and get me and Marquez out of the way, so Arum has no other high profile fight for Pac other than Diaz or maybe Hatton, both of whom you happen to control. So don’t act like you’re giving me Marquez as some kind of mission about “making the best fights”. Or you could at least fake it and come up with some really stupid number, and then you can issue press releases saying something like “We made a good offer, but Campbell obviously doesn’t want to fight someone on the level of Marquez”.

Now some people might wonder why I’m assuming Diaz beating Casamayor is a given. Everybody knows Casa screwed up your plans when he beat Katsidis. That wasn’t supposed to happen. Everybody knows that. Especially after you screwed the Santa Cruz kid out of his rematch with Casa, and gave the fight to Katsidis as a “door prize” to Samson. I know, I know, you’re doing “what’s best for boxing”, right? Well, I’ll say it out loud right now. As long as Diaz finishes the fight on his feet, there’s NO WAY Casamayor gets a decision.

Don’t think for a second that I don’t know what goes on in this game. I see the whole chessboard. You are trying to devalue the sanctioning bodies, and market your little “Golden Boy Belt” as the lineal title, thinking you can force everyone to sign with you in order to fight for that so-called “title”. You want to be Dana White, and control everything within your own little world. You are fooling some people with that hogwash, but not everyone. Unfortunately, most media people are so afraid of being denied credentials and access if they open their mouths, so they look the other way. But I’m you’re worst nightmare Richard. I’m a fighter who knows the game, and isn’t afraid to speak out about what you’re doing. I am the IBF / WBO / WBA Lightweight Champion, and there ain’t a damn thing you can do about it. Unless of course you think you have someone in your stable who can beat me and shut me up. Do you?? Let’s see…. You have Casamayor. Nope, you don’t want him to fight me. Gotta keep that “Golden Boy Belt” in house. You have Juan Diaz. The kid still has nightmares about me. You have Katsidis. Ha, you’d only let that fight happen if he were allowed to keep that helmet on. You have Marquez. Sounds good to me. How’s July or August for you guys? Oh, that’s right. You can’t do anything without HBO there to prop you up. And the fight only serves your purpose if it happens later in the year. My bad. What was I thinking?

You should stay away from interviews, and just stick to press releases telling everyone how great you are, and how good for boxing you are. And unless you have a serious fight offer, and NOT one happening 7 or 8 months down the road, then just keep my name out of your mouth. I'm not about these games you're playing.


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Campbell KO1 over Schaefer ... lol ;D

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Nate is really one smart boxer... I like this guy... He is really aware what this boxing mafia, GBP is doing...

Go grandpa Nate...

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Whoa, way to handle em Nate!

Just read that on eastside. Good stuff from Nate.

Nate can't just sit around and wait til november. He's not getting any younger. :)

I'm with Nate that GBP is trying to sideline him out of the Pacquiao sweepstakes by trying to force him to commit on a JMM fight in November...

Why November? It's really a big question mark...

GBP controls most of the names at lightweight... (Casamayor, Juan Diaz, Katsidis, Santa Cruz (poor Jose Armando), etc.) but Nate is the man right now at lightweight and if PAC is successful against David Diaz, it's very likely Nate will win the next Pacquiao sweepstakes for the undisputed unified lightweight championship title...

Now GBP is trying to mess up the lightweight picture by throwing JMM's and Barrera's name into the division... Poor JMM, he will be the sacrificial lamb coz I don't think he can beat Nate... Remember, they're both grandpas and to think that Nate schooled his grandson Juan Diaz in his last fight...

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Now I am a big supporter of The Ring and what they are trying to do, but it is funny when Campbell refers to The Ring Belt as "the Golden Boy Belt."

Nate Campbell ruined GBP's dream fights at lightweight... Imagine if Juan Diaz beat Nate, then it will be a Juan Diaz vs. AnotherGBPboxer for a lightweight super fight... but Nate derailed GBP's dream...

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It looks like GBP is trying to control Boxing. They are attempting to discredit the alphabet soup and making Oscar's belt the only one that matters.

I would not have an issue with that, but with them basically owning that belt, it will force any fighter who wants a crack at it, to join their team.

The fears of many are starting to show some truth here. Oscar wants to become Dana White and control it all.

Wow. He really did take it to him, you pretty much have to agree with everything he says. I thought Golden Boy would be good for boxing when it first came about, since then I've got to say I think completely the opposite.

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

It looks like GBP is trying to control Boxing. They are attempting to discredit the alphabet soup and making Oscar's belt the only one that matters.

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I dont think that will take any effort.

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Originally Posted by lance Uppercut

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

It looks like GBP is trying to control Boxing. They are attempting to discredit the alphabet soup and making Oscar's belt the only one that matters.

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I dont think that will take any effort.

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True. It is also a major cause for concern when it is controlled by a promoter and not an independent body.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Wow. He really did take it to him, you pretty much have to agree with everything he says. I thought Golden Boy would be good for boxing when it first came about, since then I've got to say I think completely the opposite.

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Regardless of what The Ring Champions do: there are two constants
1) the belt does not get stripped and can only change hands involuntarily in the Ring

2) There is no sanctioning fee corruption, because there are no sanctioning fees.

No matter who wins the Ring titles, because of these two constants, it will always be a more legitimate Belt then the alphabet titles.

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Originally Posted by lance Uppercut

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Wow. He really did take it to him, you pretty much have to agree with everything he says. I thought Golden Boy would be good for boxing when it first came about, since then I've got to say I think completely the opposite.

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Regardless of what The Ring Champions do: there are two constants
1) the belt does not get stripped and can only change hands involuntarily in the Ring

2) There is no sanctioning fee corruption, because there are no sanctioning fees.

No matter who wins the Ring titles, because of these two constants, it will always be a more legitimate Belt then the alphabet titles.

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What you are missing though, is that in the very near future, there will be fighters without promotional ties to Golden Boy, who might never even get a crack at the belt, as they are not under Golden Boy's umbrella. GBP has already tried to exclude Nate from a shot at Manny by trying to set up a fight with JMM in November instead of "soon". That is what Nate is lashing out about.

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

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Originally Posted by lance Uppercut

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Wow. He really did take it to him, you pretty much have to agree with everything he says. I thought Golden Boy would be good for boxing when it first came about, since then I've got to say I think completely the opposite.

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Regardless of what The Ring Champions do: there are two constants
1) the belt does not get stripped and can only change hands involuntarily in the Ring

2) There is no sanctioning fee corruption, because there are no sanctioning fees.

No matter who wins the Ring titles, because of these two constants, it will always be a more legitimate Belt then the alphabet titles.

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What you are missing though, is that in the very near future, there will be fighters without promotional ties to Golden Boy, who might never even get a crack at the belt, as they are not under Golden Boy's umbrella. GBP has already tried to exclude Nate from a shot at Manny by trying to set up a fight with JMM in November instead of "soon". That is what Nate is lashing out about.

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Exactly. It could potentially be no different than another sanctioning body in the near future, at least bit by bit as GBP fighters acquire the belts, or as GBP acquires ring champions:-X And although the belt's can't be stripped, I don't believe they have ever had mandatory ring challengers, so DLH can sort of plot the way his champions are going to with defending the belts. Were already seeing him jerk people around to set up the matchups he want's, and there's no possibility of any sanctioning body or other promoters in the way. At least with sanctioning bodies and promoters they have bargaining power and a process on each side, with DLH both promoting and owning the title's his fighters hold is worrisome for the sport imo. I think it's very likely that the ring belts could quickly lose prestige as GBP becomes more involved with them. I mean you could liken this to Don King buying out Jose Suliman and becoming president of the WBC or something. Were already seeing huge conflicts happen at lightweight, and I do believe Casamyor is the only ring champ GBP has in it's stable...

This is what I've been saying about GBP, and why I now dislike ODLH. Everyone knows Nate Campbell should be getting his choice of opponents holding 3 titles, but he is left scrounging for a fight. That shit aint right.....

I am officially a Nate Campbell fan now!!

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Wow. He really did take it to him, you pretty much have to agree with everything he says. I thought Golden Boy would be good for boxing when it first came about, since then I've got to say I think completely the opposite.

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GBP good for boxing?

1. GBP has not develop their own talent. Their prospects were falling down one by one. They rely on their old guards (Oscar, Hopkins, Mosley, Barrera) for some top promotions.

2. GBP is pirating top boxers from other stables. For example when they offered PAC a suitcase full of money just to sign up for them (good PAC realized it's not the best thing for him after signing the contract).

3. GBP is a proven top promoter? Say the Oscar-PBF fight. Yes it broke the all time record for PPV buys but what did the fans got? The fans felt robbed of their hard earned $60 after watching a boring main event in a lackluster fight card (remember "Stinko de Mayo"). Now GBP is planning a rematch, Oscar-PBF 2. I'll pity the next million casual boxing fans that they want to rob again. Oscar already got his crack on PBF and he came up short. Why don't he give this chance to another boxer like Cotto? (PBF-Cotto match up is what fans are craving for). Ohh I understand Cotto is not a GBP boxer. Then why not give this chance to Mosley? Specially if Mosley beats Judah. Mosley is already old and has given a lot to boxing. Mosley should be rewarded with a crack on PBF since fans think that he's one of the boxers who can give Floyd a tough fight. Maybe Oscar can get another crack on PBF after 1 or 2 boxers will have their first crack on Floyd.

4. GBP trying to monopolize boxing. Just like the scenario Nate mentioned in his letter. GBP planning to control fights at lightweight division.


I feel GBP is not really doing it all for the good for boxing. GBP is more concern with the money from boxing.

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Campbell is promoted by Don King, right? ;D

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Campbell is promoted by Don King, right? ;D

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Doesn't make his points any less valid, gotta love the "fight me now leave the marketing behind" thing.

I'm a big Campbell fan have been for ages but in attacking the Ring belt he's wrong. He can say whatever he wants about GBP but the facts are the Ring champion still has to win the fights. I don't really mind what fighter the champion is fighting but the winner will be recognized champion & thats a fact.

IMO the best fighters usually what to test themselves against the best.

I agree that November is to long & a Marquez fight should be made sooner. The fight I'd really prefer to see is Casamayor/ Campbell so maybe once Joel is done with Diaz it can be made.

If Nate is so worried about Santa Cruz why doesn't he offer him a fight? It might not make much money but would put him in good stead for a Casamayor remtch

If GBP is serious in offering a fight for Nate, they should offer either JMM, Casamayor or Juan Diaz (or Barrera?) for a July fight... Santa Cruz is not included coz he at least should have a rematch with Casamayor first... Katsidis? Naah, Kats will be considered to fight Nate only if he will be allowed to wear his helmet while boxing with Nate... ;D

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

If GBP is serious in offering a fight for Nate, they should offer either JMM, Casamayor or Juan Diaz (or Barrera?) for a July fight... Santa Cruz is not included coz he at least should have a rematch with Casamayor first... Katsidis? Naah, Kats will be considered to fight Nate only if he will be allowed to wear his helmet while boxing with Nate... ;D

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Well aren't Casamayor & Diaz fighting each other? So those two are out. Katsidis needs to rebuild. Marquez is the only real option IMO & I agree it should happen soon. Santa Cruz ain't getting a shot at Casamayor because it won't make the sort of money Joel is looking for.

If Nate thinks he knows about the game he should throw those bogus belts in the trash for a start. If he knows anything he should know the only championship that matters is the one around Casamayor's waist! Without it Campbell will always just be another alphabet holder.

If November is to far to weight for Marquez the Campbell should offer Santa Cruz a fight in the interim. He still have 3 to 4 months to prepare for Marquez after that fight. Or is that not the sort of fight his promoter can organize?

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

If GBP is serious in offering a fight for Nate, they should offer either JMM, Casamayor or Juan Diaz (or Barrera?) for a July fight... Santa Cruz is not included coz he at least should have a rematch with Casamayor first... Katsidis? Naah, Kats will be considered to fight Nate only if he will be allowed to wear his helmet while boxing with Nate... ;D

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Well aren't Casamayor & Diaz fighting each other? So those two are out. Katsidis needs to rebuild. Marquez is the only real option IMO & I agree it should happen soon. Santa Cruz ain't getting a shot at Casamayor because it won't make the sort of money Joel is looking for.

If Nate thinks he knows about the game he should throw those bogus belts in the trash for a start. If he knows anything he should know the only championship that matters is the one around Casamayor's waist! Without it Campbell will always just be another alphabet holder.

If November is to far to weight for Marquez the Campbell should offer Santa Cruz a fight in the interim. He still have 3 to 4 months to prepare for Marquez after that fight. Or is that not the sort of fight his promoter can organize?

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That's not really true though. I haven't heard anyone say that Casamayor is the best lightweight in the world for years. I also wouldn't personally consider him the man to beat at all. For starters, it's highly unlikely imo that he'll beat Juan Diaz when they meet. Now your telling me Campbell will be seen as just an alphabet holder wheras Diaz will be heralded as the true champion in this case, even though Campbell clearly beat him this year and Casamayor is ancient? I understand what you are saying as far as from a promotional standpoint it will be hard for Nate to get the big fights, but I'd say he's definetly considered the top lightweight in the world by most fans.

I like this guy, he makes some good points. He must love being the man in the division with all the GB fighters ranked below him.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

If GBP is serious in offering a fight for Nate, they should offer either JMM, Casamayor or Juan Diaz (or Barrera?) for a July fight... Santa Cruz is not included coz he at least should have a rematch with Casamayor first... Katsidis? Naah, Kats will be considered to fight Nate only if he will be allowed to wear his helmet while boxing with Nate... ;D

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Well aren't Casamayor & Diaz fighting each other? So those two are out. Katsidis needs to rebuild. Marquez is the only real option IMO & I agree it should happen soon. Santa Cruz ain't getting a shot at Casamayor because it won't make the sort of money Joel is looking for.

If Nate thinks he knows about the game he should throw those bogus belts in the trash for a start. If he knows anything he should know the only championship that matters is the one around Casamayor's waist! Without it Campbell will always just be another alphabet holder.

If November is to far to weight for Marquez the Campbell should offer Santa Cruz a fight in the interim. He still have 3 to 4 months to prepare for Marquez after that fight. Or is that not the sort of fight his promoter can organize?

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Casamayor-Juan Diaz is again a manifestation of GBP trying to monopolize boxing. GBP announcing a Casa-Juan Diaz fight for September 13 this early is to sideline other logical fights for Casa.

The most logical fight for Casa is a rematch with Nate Campbell (i guess you're one of those who's asking for this) or a rematch with Santa Cruz (Casa owed one to Santa Cruz).

Why Juan Diaz got the Casa fight? Is it because he was schooled by Nate Campbell or is it because he's a GBP boxer?

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

If GBP is serious in offering a fight for Nate, they should offer either JMM, Casamayor or Juan Diaz (or Barrera?) for a July fight... Santa Cruz is not included coz he at least should have a rematch with Casamayor first... Katsidis? Naah, Kats will be considered to fight Nate only if he will be allowed to wear his helmet while boxing with Nate... ;D

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Well aren't Casamayor & Diaz fighting each other? So those two are out. Katsidis needs to rebuild. Marquez is the only real option IMO & I agree it should happen soon. Santa Cruz ain't getting a shot at Casamayor because it won't make the sort of money Joel is looking for.

If Nate thinks he knows about the game he should throw those bogus belts in the trash for a start. If he knows anything he should know the only championship that matters is the one around Casamayor's waist! Without it Campbell will always just be another alphabet holder.

If November is to far to weight for Marquez the Campbell should offer Santa Cruz a fight in the interim. He still have 3 to 4 months to prepare for Marquez after that fight. Or is that not the sort of fight his promoter can organize?

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That's not really true though. I haven't heard anyone say that Casamayor is the best lightweight in the world for years. I also wouldn't personally consider him the man to beat at all. For starters, it's highly unlikely imo that he'll beat Juan Diaz when they meet. Now your telling me Campbell will be seen as just an alphabet holder wheras Diaz will be heralded as the true champion in this case, even though Campbell clearly beat him this year and Casamayor is ancient? I understand what you are saying as far as from a promotional standpoint it will be hard for Nate to get the big fights, but I'd say he's definetly considered the top lightweight in the world by most fans.

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Its very true! I never said Casamayor is the best fighter in the division & I don't think he is. But he is the champion! If you don't think the champion should be beaten in the ring then your part of the problem! If Diaz defeats the champion why shouldn't he become champion?

The best fighter in a division is not always the champion if that were the case the championship would never change hands!

I too consider Campbell the best fighter in the division but until he defeats Casamayor (or Diaz should he win) he will only be the holder worthless trinkets that will sooner or later be stripped from him.

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This is what Richard Schaefer said that got the ire of Nate:

GL: Golden Boy controls much of the lightweight division, You guys have Joel Casamayor, Michael Katsidis, Juan Diaz, Juan Manuel Marquez and Marco Antonio Barrera, what's next for those guys starting with Casamayor?

Richard Shaefer: "We made an offer to Casamayor and his team to fight on September 13 live on HBO against Juan Diaz in Houston, Texas and we are basically waiting and seeing if Joel is going to accept that offer. I have reached out to Don King as well, and I talked to Don last week and told him that Juan Manuel Marquez has indicated to me that would fight Nate Campbell. We have told King that we are willing to split everything 50-50 on a co-promotion. So let's see if Campbell is only good at giving interviews, or if he really is going to fight somebody of the caliber of a Juan Manuel Marquez. The ball is in their court and I'm hoping to hear back from King. I've had discussions with HBO already and once we can do the fight, we can hopefully firm everything up for a PPV this fall. If Nate Campbell feels like he doesn't want to wait around until then, that's okay, he can go and fight somebody of lesser quality. The fact is Juan Manuel Marquez is ready, willing and able to fight anybody."


GBP throwing in JMM and MAB into the lightweight picture... Isn't it these 2 are too old and too small for 135?

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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GBP throwing in JMM and MAB into the lightweight picture... Isn't it these 2 are too old and too small for 135?

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Size wise?.. They're not.

But I don't think they can carry their power and chin in that division.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Well aren't Casamayor & Diaz fighting each other? So those two are out. Katsidis needs to rebuild. Marquez is the only real option IMO & I agree it should happen soon. Santa Cruz ain't getting a shot at Casamayor because it won't make the sort of money Joel is looking for.

If Nate thinks he knows about the game he should throw those bogus belts in the trash for a start. If he knows anything he should know the only championship that matters is the one around Casamayor's waist! Without it Campbell will always just be another alphabet holder.

If November is to far to weight for Marquez the Campbell should offer Santa Cruz a fight in the interim. He still have 3 to 4 months to prepare for Marquez after that fight. Or is that not the sort of fight his promoter can organize?

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That's not really true though. I haven't heard anyone say that Casamayor is the best lightweight in the world for years. I also wouldn't personally consider him the man to beat at all. For starters, it's highly unlikely imo that he'll beat Juan Diaz when they meet. Now your telling me Campbell will be seen as just an alphabet holder wheras Diaz will be heralded as the true champion in this case, even though Campbell clearly beat him this year and Casamayor is ancient? I understand what you are saying as far as from a promotional standpoint it will be hard for Nate to get the big fights, but I'd say he's definetly considered the top lightweight in the world by most fans.

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Its very true! I never said Casamayor is the best fighter in the division & I don't think he is. But he is the champion! If you don't think the champion should be beaten in the ring then your part of the problem! If Diaz defeats the champion why shouldn't he become champion?

The best fighter in a division is not always the champion if that were the case the championship would never change hands!

I too consider Campbell the best fighter in the division but until he defeats Casamayor (or Diaz should he win) he will only be the holder worthless trinkets that will sooner or later be stripped from him.

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I just think Ring titles, or even the lineal title, is just like any other championship. It's only worth as much as the champion holding it. I mean I've heard that Zolt Erdie is the lineal light HW champion... Apparently Darius was the lineal champ at LHW during Roy Jones reign... But did it matter to the general audience, or to Roy Jones as far as being considered the man and landing the best fights? Not whatsoever. In this case it's not to the same extreme, but even still as was said few would consider Joel the best lightweight in the world. And sure you can make the point that Campbell is at risk of being stripped at any point, but Casamyor is in just as much danger of being overmatched and jerked around. The entire point I was trying to make previously is that with Golden Boy owning the ring, it may become just as political as sanctioning bodies. It's obvious Golden Boy WANTS Cas to lose the title, he's no safer than Campbell. And again, I just don't see what makes Campbell's belts "worthless", wheras Casa's is so meaningful. I understand the historical signifigance, but like I said, Casamayor never really did anything recently to solidify his being the man at lightweight. I just don't consider his recent wins anywhere near as meaningful as Campbell's, and that's what I'll go by. I don't think I'm alone either.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by p4pking

That's not really true though. I haven't heard anyone say that Casamayor is the best lightweight in the world for years. I also wouldn't personally consider him the man to beat at all. For starters, it's highly unlikely imo that he'll beat Juan Diaz when they meet. Now your telling me Campbell will be seen as just an alphabet holder wheras Diaz will be heralded as the true champion in this case, even though Campbell clearly beat him this year and Casamayor is ancient? I understand what you are saying as far as from a promotional standpoint it will be hard for Nate to get the big fights, but I'd say he's definetly considered the top lightweight in the world by most fans.

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Its very true! I never said Casamayor is the best fighter in the division & I don't think he is. But he is the champion! If you don't think the champion should be beaten in the ring then your part of the problem! If Diaz defeats the champion why shouldn't he become champion?

The best fighter in a division is not always the champion if that were the case the championship would never change hands!

I too consider Campbell the best fighter in the division but until he defeats Casamayor (or Diaz should he win) he will only be the holder worthless trinkets that will sooner or later be stripped from him.

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I just think Ring titles, or even the lineal title, is just like any other championship. It's only worth as much as the champion holding it. I mean I've heard that Zolt Erdie is the lineal light HW champion... Apparently Darius was the lineal champ at LHW during Roy Jones reign... But did it matter to the general audience, or to Roy Jones as far as being considered the man and landing the best fights? Not whatsoever. In this case it's not to the same extreme, but even still as was said few would consider Joel the best lightweight in the world. And sure you can make the point that Campbell is at risk of being stripped at any point, but Casamyor is in just as much danger of being overmatched and jerked around. The entire point I was trying to make previously is that with Golden Boy owning the ring, it may become just as political as sanctioning bodies. It's obvious Golden Boy WANTS Cas to lose the title, he's no safer than Campbell. And again, I just don't see what makes Campbell's belts "worthless", wheras Casa's is so meaningful. I understand the historical signifigance, but like I said, Casamayor never really did anything recently to solidify his being the man at lightweight. I just don't consider his recent wins anywhere near as meaningful as Campbell's, and that's what I'll go by. I don't think I'm alone either.

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I'm with you Bro...

Boy there sure is a lot of Golden Boy Promotions paranoia goin round here huh?

Campbell is a pimp. Gotta agree with him though.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by p4pking

That's not really true though. I haven't heard anyone say that Casamayor is the best lightweight in the world for years. I also wouldn't personally consider him the man to beat at all. For starters, it's highly unlikely imo that he'll beat Juan Diaz when they meet. Now your telling me Campbell will be seen as just an alphabet holder wheras Diaz will be heralded as the true champion in this case, even though Campbell clearly beat him this year and Casamayor is ancient? I understand what you are saying as far as from a promotional standpoint it will be hard for Nate to get the big fights, but I'd say he's definetly considered the top lightweight in the world by most fans.

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Its very true! I never said Casamayor is the best fighter in the division & I don't think he is. But he is the champion! If you don't think the champion should be beaten in the ring then your part of the problem! If Diaz defeats the champion why shouldn't he become champion?

The best fighter in a division is not always the champion if that were the case the championship would never change hands!

I too consider Campbell the best fighter in the division but until he defeats Casamayor (or Diaz should he win) he will only be the holder worthless trinkets that will sooner or later be stripped from him.

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I just think Ring titles, or even the lineal title, is just like any other championship. It's only worth as much as the champion holding it. I mean I've heard that Zolt Erdie is the lineal light HW champion... Apparently Darius was the lineal champ at LHW during Roy Jones reign... But did it matter to the general audience, or to Roy Jones as far as being considered the man and landing the best fights? Not whatsoever. In this case it's not to the same extreme, but even still as was said few would consider Joel the best lightweight in the world. And sure you can make the point that Campbell is at risk of being stripped at any point, but Casamyor is in just as much danger of being overmatched and jerked around. The entire point I was trying to make previously is that with Golden Boy owning the ring, it may become just as political as sanctioning bodies. It's obvious Golden Boy WANTS Cas to lose the title, he's no safer than Campbell. And again, I just don't see what makes Campbell's belts "worthless", wheras Casa's is so meaningful. I understand the historical signifigance, but like I said, Casamayor never really did anything recently to solidify his being the man at lightweight. I just don't consider his recent wins anywhere near as meaningful as Campbell's, and that's what I'll go by. I don't think I'm alone either.

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Me & Mick have been through this before but Erdei is not the linear champ.

The lineal champion of the world in boxing is someone who has won all the major belts (WBC, IBF, WBA) and has never lost them in the ring. Alternatively if you beat the person who did this, whether or not they possess the titles you will become the linear champion. The concept of a 'linear champion' in boxing is that the politics are ignored. It is a term used by only hardcore fans, journalists and television pundits. It looks at the lineage of the championship rather that the actual awarding of belts by sanctioning bodies. The Ring magazine are known to award their own version of a world title belt to the linear champion. Sometimes they are also referred to as the undisputed champion, or the peoples champion. However the latter can also be used to refer to a boxer who has lost but remains popular.
Source

The Ring Magazine, September 2002

According to The Ring Michalcsweski never was the linear champ because he didn't unify all 3 belts. Jones Jr did.

As I've said before I don't consider Casamayor the best fighter in the division but that doesn't change the fact that he is still the champion!

You don’t like a decision the champion got? No problem—just recognize another guy in the division. He has an alphabet belt anyway, so what’s the difference? What does it matter?
Guess what—it matters.
Relatively few world champions in the modern history of our sport deserved, in the majority of the viewing public, every single decision they received. That includes those in the pantheon.
Everyone thought Jersey Joe Walcott got robbed against Joe Louis in their first fight. Muhammad Ali got a whole string of debatable decisions toward the end. Larry Holmes too.
The answer was not simply to recognize a different guy as the champion. To do so would have been to invite chaos, which is precisely what we have today.

Source

thering-online 2008

A lot of younger fans don't know any different & think what we have today is acceptable. But its not. A champion should only lose his title in the ring to think differently is only to add to the problem!

If the Ring Magazine had had their titles back in 1996, when Hill met Maske, Hill would have been crowned the Ring's Light Heavyweight champ. Then after beating Hill, the title would have belonged to Michalczewski and thus finally Erdei would be the Ring champ today.

However, The Ring didnt appoint their champs until 2002, wherefore Roy Jones Jr. became the (rightful) owner of the LHW crown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mikkel_K

If the Ring Magazine had had their titles back in 1996, when Hill met Maske, Hill would have been crowned the Ring's Light Heavyweight champ. Then after beating Hill, the title would have belonged to Michalczewski and thus finally Erdei would be the Ring champ today.

However, The Ring didnt appoint their champs until 2002, wherefore Roy Jones Jr. became the (rightful) owner of the LHW crown.

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Exactly so according to The Rings criteria of the time Hill/ Maske was not for the linear title.

Jones became the champion in '99 with his victory over Reggie Johnson unifying all 3 major belts.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Its very true! I never said Casamayor is the best fighter in the division & I don't think he is. But he is the champion! If you don't think the champion should be beaten in the ring then your part of the problem! If Diaz defeats the champion why shouldn't he become champion?

The best fighter in a division is not always the champion if that were the case the championship would never change hands!

I too consider Campbell the best fighter in the division but until he defeats Casamayor (or Diaz should he win) he will only be the holder worthless trinkets that will sooner or later be stripped from him.

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I just think Ring titles, or even the lineal title, is just like any other championship. It's only worth as much as the champion holding it. I mean I've heard that Zolt Erdie is the lineal light HW champion... Apparently Darius was the lineal champ at LHW during Roy Jones reign... But did it matter to the general audience, or to Roy Jones as far as being considered the man and landing the best fights? Not whatsoever. In this case it's not to the same extreme, but even still as was said few would consider Joel the best lightweight in the world. And sure you can make the point that Campbell is at risk of being stripped at any point, but Casamyor is in just as much danger of being overmatched and jerked around. The entire point I was trying to make previously is that with Golden Boy owning the ring, it may become just as political as sanctioning bodies. It's obvious Golden Boy WANTS Cas to lose the title, he's no safer than Campbell. And again, I just don't see what makes Campbell's belts "worthless", wheras Casa's is so meaningful. I understand the historical signifigance, but like I said, Casamayor never really did anything recently to solidify his being the man at lightweight. I just don't consider his recent wins anywhere near as meaningful as Campbell's, and that's what I'll go by. I don't think I'm alone either.

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Me & Mick have been through this before but Erdei is not the linear champ.

The lineal champion of the world in boxing is someone who has won all the major belts (WBC, IBF, WBA) and has never lost them in the ring. Alternatively if you beat the person who did this, whether or not they possess the titles you will become the linear champion. The concept of a 'linear champion' in boxing is that the politics are ignored. It is a term used by only hardcore fans, journalists and television pundits. It looks at the lineage of the championship rather that the actual awarding of belts by sanctioning bodies. The Ring magazine are known to award their own version of a world title belt to the linear champion. Sometimes they are also referred to as the undisputed champion, or the peoples champion. However the latter can also be used to refer to a boxer who has lost but remains popular.
Source

The Ring Magazine, September 2002

According to The Ring Michalcsweski never was the linear champ because he didn't unify all 3 belts. Jones Jr did.

As I've said before I don't consider Casamayor the best fighter in the division but that doesn't change the fact that he is still the champion!

You don’t like a decision the champion got? No problem—just recognize another guy in the division. He has an alphabet belt anyway, so what’s the difference? What does it matter?
Guess what—it matters.
Relatively few world champions in the modern history of our sport deserved, in the majority of the viewing public, every single decision they received. That includes those in the pantheon.
Everyone thought Jersey Joe Walcott got robbed against Joe Louis in their first fight. Muhammad Ali got a whole string of debatable decisions toward the end. Larry Holmes too.
The answer was not simply to recognize a different guy as the champion. To do so would have been to invite chaos, which is precisely what we have today.

Source

thering-online 2008

A lot of younger fans don't know any different & think what we have today is acceptable. But its not. A champion should only lose his title in the ring to think differently is only to add to the problem!

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Look up my Light heavyweight history thread and suggest how you wouls amend the situation.