What will Wlad have to do to make your Top 10 PFP?

I was reading thru the "revised Top 10 PFP" thread where people were providing their post-Mayweather PFP lists, and I realized that no one had Wlad in their Top 10.

So what does he have to do to make it?

Are you of the mindset that no heavyweight ever belongs on a PFP list?

If you do think there are situations where a heavyweight belongs on a PFP list, what does Wlad have to do...

unify the titles?
beat a specific opponent (example.. Peter)?

I'm starting this thread, because as I was making my Top 10 list, I filled in the Top 6 or 7 easy enough, but after that, it became harder to justify leaving Wlad out.

I think the unification will give him P4P status at least in my book.

I think it would require him to show a little more than a jab-cross and not get knocked down so frequently.

Let his hands go, especially the right hand, and also to stop holding so damn much.

Yeah, I think he needs to show a little more gusto and a little more dimension to his game and he could be in there... To be really fair though, it's more about the lack of depth & solid competition in the heavyweight division that limits the amount of cred that Wlad can get from beating them.... A Heavyweight certainly deserves to be in the Top 10 P4P in my book as much as any other weight.. Some of the other division though have so much depth, that for a fighter to be on top in those, they have to have the entire package... And it's easier to slot them into the Top 10 over Wlad, where the competition just isn't nearly as heated...

The only way Wlad could make a top 10 P4P list is if he morphed into Ali overnight.

Although P4P is nothing but fun, too many people compile their lists based solely on achievements made per division instead of putting emphasis on the SKILL of each fighter.

Here's Bernard Hopkins take on P4P - "You've got to understand that Ray Robinson was given the P4P title not because of his record, which included losses, but because of things he could do, he could adjust in the blink of an eye. He could box going back, he could box going forward, he could knock you out with a left hook, sideways, backwards, frontwards. To me, that's what it takes to be the best pound-for-pound fighter."

If you can't find 50 fighters better than Wlad.. surely something is wrong ;)

Not getting beat knocked out by corrie sanders and lamont brewster would help.

To be fair Wlads record is as impressive as they come.........until you read through the fighters he has actually gone through and realise their isnt really that much to ride home about.

Wlads legacy will be defined over the next 3-4 years. But i just cant consider a guy thats fought and beat relative bums for 4-5 years and has a suspect chin over better fighters at lower weights!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

Not getting beat knocked out by corrie sanders and lamont brewster would help.

To be fair Wlads record is as impressive as they come.........until you read through the fighters he has actually gone through and realise their isnt really that much to ride home about.

Wlads legacy will be defined over the next 3-4 years. But i just cant consider a guy thats fought and beat relative bums for 4-5 years and has a suspect chin over better fighters at lower weights!!

---

Beat me to it!! I was gonna say the only way he gets into my p4p top 10, is if he can erase my memory of him sprawling all over the floor against two club fighters;)


Bottom line, there is nobody out there that he could beat that would improve his resume, becuase the division is pony! If he beat Hatton maybe :-\
























;D

As already mentioned there are and always will be at least 10 fighters who are better than him, disregarding weight.

He cant be considered P4P.

KO Haye.

To get him pointed in the right direction he has to look good against Thompson, then beat the winner of Chagaev/Valuev, then beat Haye if he does that within the next year and others on the p4p list lose and/or retire, there could be an argument made for it at number 10.

What is with this beat Haye business? Is Haye a proven entity at HW? For Wlad to be on a P4P list he needs to keep doing what he's doing. Tony Thompson, an actual threat, is a good start. If Wlad beats all the title holders and then chops down all the top contenders he can make a case for himself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leftylee

KO Haye.

---

:thumb:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liquid

What is with this beat Haye business? Is Haye a proven entity at HW? For Wlad to be on a P4P list he needs to keep doing what he's doing. Tony Thompson, an actual threat, is a good start. If Wlad beats all the title holders and then chops down all the top contenders he can make a case for himself.

---

Haye is really the only exciting new HW that's being discussed right now, and if by my plan he has beat Thompson (A respectable American HW), then the winner of Valuev/Chagaev (To unify again), and then Haye (A respectable UK HW who by that time should have a couple of good names and maybe a minor strap by then) Not much else he can do at HW I could give him respect for that.

...not too much he can do, it's the division as a whole that keeps him out imo. Great as he may or may not be we don't get a chance to see it, we just watch him KO a bunch of lesser opponets, and it really isn't even his fault.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rican

Let his hands go, especially the right hand, and also to stop holding so damn much.

---

Let me ask you then.... has Bernard Hopkins been on your Top 10 PFP list recently?

Appear in 'I am legend' in real life.


;)

For Vlad to make the top ten the level the top ten are currently at will have to fall dramatically. If Vlad ever makes the top ten even none of us will still be watching boxing. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

The only way Wlad could make a top 10 P4P list is if he morphed into Ali overnight.

Although P4P is nothing but fun, too many people compile their lists based solely on achievements made per division instead of putting emphasis on the SKILL of each fighter.

Here's Bernard Hopkins take on P4P - "You've got to understand that Ray Robinson was given the P4P title not because of his record, which included losses, but because of things he could do, he could adjust in the blink of an eye. He could box going back, he could box going forward, he could knock you out with a left hook, sideways, backwards, frontwards. To me, that's what it takes to be the best pound-for-pound fighter."

If you can't find 50 fighters better than Wlad.. surely something is wrong ;)

---

Dead on. He can't be a top p4p guy because he isn't even close to one of the best fighters in the world, it has nothing to do with him being a HW or what he hasn't accomplished yet. Good point about people basing their lists on achievements PER division as well, I think people sort of subconciously feel they need to have a wide range of weight classes in their list. Calzaghe and Hopkins are the heaviest fighters I'd have top 10, and the only ones above WW currently.

If he beats Thompson convincingly, he deserves some credit. Adding another title wouldn't hurt.

It would probably be easier if he was a smaller heavyweight that was considered the top guy in the division instead of a guy who has a (sometimes huge) size advantage over guys in his own division.

I don't think it really has to do with Wlads skills (at least I hope not because the guy can fight and other then his anytime chin he is dominate) it has to do more with the Heavyweight division being so weak.

If the division was stronger he would have made my list for sure.

Well it is hard considering the Heavyweight division is so weak at the moment, and there is no real fighter that stands out or has many fans or is exciting, to be honest his fight with Sultan was probably one of the worst Heavyweight title fights i've ever seen, it was basically glorified sparring match, im not doubting Wlad's skill but he hasn't erased my mind of those other bad losses with two borefest's with Brewster, Sultan. And basically that was Wlad's time to shine and he rarely has shined in major big fights, so that also goes against him, He could have made big statement Koing Sultan.

He basically needs to unify and try and look impressive while doing it. Im all for doing what you have to do to win, but when your supposed to be the best Heavyweight in the world. You need to start making big statements so people will take interest and then fans will rate him higher in P4P lists. Right now he is round about ranked 16 on my P4P list maybe a tad lower. And until he starts making big statements and unfying thats where he stays as far as im concerned.

The question to ask is if Wlad was a welterweight slightly shorter but had the same skills we he be a top contender? No
If Wlad was a super middle slighlty shorter lighter in weight same skills would he be a contender? No
If Haye was a Lightweight with his skill set ould he be a contender? No

I could go on he is a big oaf who is better than a bunch of sub par heavyweights! I think Tony Thompson has agreat chance against him! I know you lot won't agree but Tony Thompson is a Tall rangy akward south paw who Wlad won't have a height or reach advantage other he also has a decent Jaw

Vitals
sexmalebirth date1971-10-18age 36manager/agentregisterdivisionheavyweightrating5 / 1143nationality United States aliasThe TigerresidenceWashington, District of Columbia, United Statesbirth placeSilver Spring, MD, USAbirth nameAnthony Tyrone Thompsonstancesouthpawheight6′ 5″reach81½“US ID MD056914

His only loss was early in his career since then he has developed greatly!!

Klitscho Vitals

Global ID 7035suspensionsreport http://static.boxrec.com/pdf.gifsexmalebirth date1976-03-25age 32manager/agentregisterdivisionheavyweightrating1 / 1143nationality Ukraine aliasSteelhammer / Dr.residenceKiev, Ukrainebirth placeSemipalatinsk, Kazakhstanstanceorthodoxheight6′ 6½″reach81“US ID NV046089won 50 (KO 44) + lost 3 (KO 3) + drawn 0 = 53

Wlad actually has a shorter reach; although he has a 1 and a half inch height advantage this is a very even match more so than people think and I smell an upset!

So let's not mention Mr Steel Hammer and P4P in the same sentence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killersheep

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liquid

What is with this beat Haye business? Is Haye a proven entity at HW? For Wlad to be on a P4P list he needs to keep doing what he's doing. Tony Thompson, an actual threat, is a good start. If Wlad beats all the title holders and then chops down all the top contenders he can make a case for himself.

---

Haye is really the only exciting new HW that's being discussed right now, and if by my plan he has beat Thompson (A respectable American HW), then the winner of Valuev/Chagaev (To unify again), and then Haye (A respectable UK HW who by that time should have a couple of good names and maybe a minor strap by then) Not much else he can do at HW I could give him respect for that.

---

Again, how is Haye an exciting HW when he's only fought there once and against limited competition. That's like calling Calzaghe an exciting LHW before the Hopkins fight. Boy, that Pacquiao, he's an exciting lightweight. That Paul Williams is really tearin' 'em up at Super Welterweight. Let's see Haye's big schwantz first before we start slobbin' the knob, shall we?

Some of you guys judge P4P a little too harshly. Of course Wlad can make the list. Just like you could say Wlad wouldn't be as good with the same skill set at a lower weight class, the same could be said if you were to put Pacquiao at HW. Pac can't necessarily take those bigger punches and wouldn't necessarily be able to carry the extra 70+ lbs successfully. That comparison is just about as fair as throwing Wlad in the ring with Pac (and take a wild guess who would win). The criteria changes depending on the class. We don't look for HWs to be the fastest guys in boxing just like we don't look for bantamweights to be the biggest punchers. What Wlad is doing right now should earn him a spot on any current P4P list. Not necessarily all-time because there are so many great heavyweights who would probably beat him, but judged against active fighters Wlad is either on or around the corner from the list. Just stop it already.

Really what making a P4P list does is force you to take 10 different kinds of fruit and rank them by which tastes best. Some guys are going to have a lot of apples, some will have a lot of oranges, but there are other fruits to be considered that may not be as sweet, but sweetness isn't the only factor. That's why I don't have a P4P list. I'm not aware enough of the fighters below 130 to put a SMW above them. I know the guys I like and I leave it at that. I have an idea of guys who should be on a P4P list, but I know if I made one I'd have to cut most of them because there would be way more than ten.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by p4pking

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

The only way Wlad could make a top 10 P4P list is if he morphed into Ali overnight.

Although P4P is nothing but fun, too many people compile their lists based solely on achievements made per division instead of putting emphasis on the SKILL of each fighter.

Here's Bernard Hopkins take on P4P - "You've got to understand that Ray Robinson was given the P4P title not because of his record, which included losses, but because of things he could do, he could adjust in the blink of an eye. He could box going back, he could box going forward, he could knock you out with a left hook, sideways, backwards, frontwards. To me, that's what it takes to be the best pound-for-pound fighter."

If you can't find 50 fighters better than Wlad.. surely something is wrong ;)

---

Dead on. He can't be a top p4p guy because he isn't even close to one of the best fighters in the world, it has nothing to do with him being a HW or what he hasn't accomplished yet. Good point about people basing their lists on achievements PER division as well, I think people sort of subconciously feel they need to have a wide range of weight classes in their list. Calzaghe and Hopkins are the heaviest fighters I'd have top 10, and the only ones above WW currently.

---

yeah, maybe.

I don't necessarily think the big guys shouldn't be on the list.

But Wlad is an average heavyweight compared with the great/good heavies of the past. Just because he's recognised as top man in his division doesn't make him a great fighter. And there's easily 10 great/good fighters to currently place in front of him when you encompass all weight classes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liquid

Some of you guys judge P4P a little too harshly. Of course Wlad can make the list. Just like you could say Wlad wouldn't be as good with the same skill set at a lower weight class, the same could be said if you were to put Pacquiao at HW. Pac can't necessarily take those bigger punches and wouldn't necessarily be able to carry the extra 70+ lbs successfully. That comparison is just about as fair as throwing Wlad in the ring with Pac (and take a wild guess who would win). The criteria changes depending on the class. We don't look for HWs to be the fastest guys in boxing just like we don't look for bantamweights to be the biggest punchers. What Wlad is doing right now should earn him a spot on any current P4P list. Not necessarily all-time because there are so many great heavyweights who would probably beat him, but judged against active fighters Wlad is either on or around the corner from the list. Just stop it already.

---

Obviously.. in a real fight Wlad would KILL Pac.

But the idea of P4P is - fantasy.

Pac is a tremendous puncher for his weight-class. So.. In a mythical match-up Pacs power would be the equal of Wlads (maybe even more powerful).

Pac would destroy that china-chin inside 1 round.

Now, if you were discussing a mythical match between Pac and a prime Tyson - it would be a whole different story ;)

But that's still assuming Pac could take a HW punch and could lug around that extra weight. If you make adjustments for that, then perhaps comparable adjustments could be made for Klitschko to be a force at 130. At 110 pounds lighter he could be a great deal faster. Judge him for who he is where he is not for what other fighters are in their classes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liquid

Really what making a P4P list does is force you to take 10 different kinds of fruit and rank them by which tastes best. Some guys are going to have a lot of apples, some will have a lot of oranges, but there are other fruits to be considered that may not be as sweet, but sweetness isn't the only factor. That's why I don't have a P4P list. I'm not aware enough of the fighters below 130 to put a SMW above them. I know the guys I like and I leave it at that. I have an idea of guys who should be on a P4P list, but I know if I made one I'd have to cut most of them because there would be way more than ten.

---

completely agree

People are always so eager to give credit to the smaller fighter because he throws more punches, is much quicker and able to get into wars that perhaps 2 heavyweights wouldnt be able to get into due to the fact they both hit so hard.

Though while i agree on your theory i still believe it is relatively possible to calculate who are the best P4P fighters in the world.

I hadnt seen Wlad for a good while before the Ibraghimov fight. After seeing that performance i completely wrote off Wlad and to be perfectly honest believe the jury is still well and truly out on him.

Would pavlik of pawed his jab for 12rounds against an inferior fighter he knew if he really took a chance could have him out of there at any time. Same goes for pacquiao, hatton and cotto.

Whenever you see Wlad you just get the sense he is going through the motions and that just is not good enough for a man who has the talent and the ability to finally bring some respect back to the heavyweight division.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liquid

But that's still assuming Pac could take a HW punch and could lug around that extra weight. If you make adjustments for that, then perhaps comparable adjustments could be made for Klitschko to be a force at 130. At 110 pounds lighter he could be a great deal faster. Judge him for who he is where he is not for what other fighters are in their classes.

---

OK.. so take the best and worst attributes of both fighters. Morph them into a weight-class where their size and weight is leveled (halfway) - then pick the winner?

I make Pac an EASY winner.

;D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liquid

But that's still assuming Pac could take a HW punch and could lug around that extra weight. If you make adjustments for that, then perhaps comparable adjustments could be made for Klitschko to be a force at 130. At 110 pounds lighter he could be a great deal faster. Judge him for who he is where he is not for what other fighters are in their classes.

---

OK.. so take the best and worst attributes of both fighters. Morph them into a weight-class where their size and weight is leveled (halfway) - then pick the winner?

I make Pac an EASY winner.

;D

---

But then your still working from a theoretical standpoint.

Would pacs speed advance with him to say a dead 160, understandably there would be some kind of decline in his work rate. But would that extra weight prove to slow him down more than the norm.

Would Wlad lose his ability to throw that jab 20-30 times a round if he was fighting at a lower weight and had to rely more on countering with the right.

Its only ever fair to compare fighters in the same weight class, P4P rankings are all good as your judging each on their individual abilitys and accomplishments.

But P4P is still no more than various judgements!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liquid

But that's still assuming Pac could take a HW punch and could lug around that extra weight. If you make adjustments for that, then perhaps comparable adjustments could be made for Klitschko to be a force at 130. At 110 pounds lighter he could be a great deal faster. Judge him for who he is where he is not for what other fighters are in their classes.

---

OK.. so take the best and worst attributes of both fighters. Morph them into a weight-class where their size and weight is leveled (halfway) - then pick the winner?

I make Pac an EASY winner.

;D

---

I think it would be similar to Corrie Sanders vs Wladimir Klitscko, Sanders was a fast punching powerful Southpaw, can anyone see a deja vu there ??

Yeah that's it, Ice.

Pac would KO him in 1 though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liquid

But that's still assuming Pac could take a HW punch and could lug around that extra weight. If you make adjustments for that, then perhaps comparable adjustments could be made for Klitschko to be a force at 130. At 110 pounds lighter he could be a great deal faster. Judge him for who he is where he is not for what other fighters are in their classes.

---

OK.. so take the best and worst attributes of both fighters. Morph them into a weight-class where their size and weight is leveled (halfway) - then pick the winner?

I make Pac an EASY winner.

;D

---

But then your still working from a theoretical standpoint.

Would pacs speed advance with him to say a dead 160, understandably there would be some kind of decline in his work rate. But would that extra weight prove to slow him down more than the norm.

Would Wlad lose his ability to throw that jab 20-30 times a round if he was fighting at a lower weight and had to rely more on countering with the right.

Its only ever fair to compare fighters in the same weight class, P4P rankings are all good as your judging each on their individual abilitys and accomplishments.

But P4P is still no more than various judgements!!

---

Yes. P4P is a load of bollocks. Fact.

But it's fun ;D

Wlad vs Haye.

Whoever wins by KO, goes in my top 10 p4p list.

nuff said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Wlad vs Haye.

Whoever wins by KO, goes in my top 10 p4p list.

nuff said.

---

Then if and when it happens Wlad will go into your top ten. Haye is a tailor-made fighter for Klitschko. He sticks his whole head forward and crouches down- he looks like an old man. When he leaps in he'll get tied up and he'll be frustrated on the outside until he gets blanked with a straight right that sneaks in behind the jab. Haye's defense is POUROUS and while that worked with Enzo Macarinelli, Wlad will make you pay if you keep your hands down.

Wlad doesn't belong on any Pound4Pound lists because he's a heavyweight and the list was made to showcase the lighter weight classes....he could beat Jesus and still wouldn't make the P4P list.


I'm a Wlad fan...I just don't think natural heavyweights deserve to be on the list

If he paid me a million dollars I'd make him p4p number 1 on my list hands down.

Question: What would Wlad have to do to make my top 10 p4p list?

Answer: He'd have to go out and rustle up opponents with a pulse to make the HW division worth watching again. (And then beat them, of course.)