Landing Hooks and Uppercuts from the outside.

I've fallen into a strange habit of lunging when throwing Hooks and uppercuts from a distance, albeit Uppercuts were never my forte.

Obviously countering is one excellent method of ensuring your power punch will land, but what other methods are employed to ensure the punch lands?

For the purposes of the thread it may also be helpful to discusss defences against such punches.

Donny I have a vid I might put up one day (or a little bit of it) when I get it from my coach showing how god aweful ugly missed hooks from far out can look. lol

My left hook was so successful against shorter fighters I figured it was sure fire, and I ran into a guy who was 6`4``or 6`5 and I had a hurt back before fighting him too. But mostly I was leading off with that left hook and to my surprise not only was i missing by a mile and horribly, the punch was going across my body and tying me up! lol

I figured out in time how bad it was and quickly started using an straight right left hook combo to counter him...and managed a win...but wow...was it ugly, the opening hook. Itll be embarrassing as hell but when I get it Ill put up a cut clip from it.

That caused me to start working on shortening it. Plus add some elements to work on too for a counter like an overhand right-straight left combo. Plus working on my slipping.

I've got a nice hook, but I've let it loosen in recent times.
I need to begin tightening all limbs once again.

I feel since i've sparred with pros I've encounteed leads with unusual punches more so I need to expand my own repetoire of leads.

A little tip, the problem usualy starts with the feet not being right and to compesate the shoulders are overcompesating and tighten as does the lower back and groin. Making it hard for the elbows to be where they should be on the ribs where they have the ability to feel where they are. giving a sense [ feel] for direction of where to go, distance is lost. :D

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Originally Posted by Scrap

A little tip, the problem usualy starts with the feet not being right and to compesate the shoulders are overcompesating and tighten as does the lower back and groin. Making it hard for the elbows to be where they should be on the ribs where they have the ability to feel where they are. giving a sense [ feel] for direction of where to go, distance is lost. :D

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Excellent advice.
I understood it first time round this time:p

I was thinking for a LH to step as if with a jab and twist on extension with the hook.
I haven't experimented yet, I will tonight, but it may work.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Scrap

A little tip, the problem usualy starts with the feet not being right and to compesate the shoulders are overcompesating and tighten as does the lower back and groin. Making it hard for the elbows to be where they should be on the ribs where they have the ability to feel where they are. giving a sense [ feel] for direction of where to go, distance is lost. :D

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Excellent advice.
I understood it first time round this time:p

I was thinking for a LH to step as if with a jab and twist on extension with the hook.
I haven't experimented yet, I will tonight, but it may work.

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This also may help explain why I was experiencing alot of lower back pain for a while when I was working on using my left hook a lot. It has since stopped as ive shortened it, but it was always sore.

Offensive and defensive
Hook,you have to widen it out a little from the outside to make your reach
Defending,step in past it,and uppercut

Uppercut,I really dont recomend an out uppercut,but you have to open up your arm angle,and you will have to make a step with it,that may feel like a lunge to get anything on it
Defending,block it out,instinct says to block it in,dont,block it out by twisting your hips back,and as your blocking it out counter with an overhand cross

Practice ; Double up on them while moving in.
High and low or low and high, first one gets the reaction second one gets your distance and lands in the reverse spot to his arms reaction to the first one. You'll kill two birds with one stone.

If you're going to throw a lunging hook here's what works for me...


Set up the right cross....feint the right cross...when you feint roll your body weight to your left side and then push off and leap in with the hook.

This way you have time to see if they buy the feint....if they don't then hold back the hook and keep pounding the 1-2 and it will eventually set it up

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Originally Posted by Lyle

If you're going to throw a lunging hook here's what works for me...


Set up the right cross....feint the right cross...when you feint roll your body weight to your left side and then push off and leap in with the hook.

This way you have time to see if they buy the feint....if they don't then hold back the hook and keep pounding the 1-2 and it will eventually set it up

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I would never train to throw a lunging hook.
I feel that lunging is by no means positive and should actually be discouraged.

Yea I am almost convinced my poorly executed hook was responsible for a lot of my lower back pain. Not saying I got it perfect now, but since I started working on shortening it the steady lower back pain has all but disappeared...

Youngun,at a guees I dont think you are turning the Hook thats why its affecting the lower back if you were it wouldnt ;D

I wouldn't throw uppercuts from the outside watch what happened to Douglas against Holyfield, And watch what happened to Leonard throwing hooks from the outside against Hearns in the rematch. I find it so easy to counter my opponent when they try and throw hooks or uppercuts from the outside, good luck to you Donny if you can do it effectively but its not something i would ever do too risky.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Youngun,at a guees I dont think you are turning the Hook thats why its affecting the lower back if you were it wouldnt ;D

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Yea thanks Scrap, I believe you are right. I think I got most of that figured out in the last few months. Backs feeling much better now. I got a brand new problem working on using the uppercut properly now. Is always something to work on, eh?

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Originally Posted by ICB

I wouldn't throw uppercuts from the outside watch what happened to Douglas against Holyfield, And watch what happened to Leonard throwing hooks from the outside against Hearns in the rematch. I find it so easy to counter my opponent when they try and throw hooks or uppercuts from the outside, good luck to you Donny if you can do it effectively but its not something i would ever do too risky.

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I like uppercuts and what they can create specially for the next move on an opening.


I think the uppercut is best executed hidden from view. either by a feint that has attracted their lead arm across themselves more into centre, then have the uppercut come up under that same arm right at the point when it heads back to the side so they dont see it and it only appears right on the end of their own arms movment.(worth practiceing that exact timing and where you have to be bodily).

Or hidden by your own body movment like when you are passing under a lead arm to the outside and you follow your movment with the uppercut off your rear arm, launched in secret off your hip right between his arms as you pass through so theres weight and movment in it.

Sneaky people can even lightly shove an arm and the fighter will react and his arm will force against the original push which you can then rip up the inside of or around.

So : (follow my kookyness here ;D) you could lightly shove a lead left arm at the elbow point in towards his centre as you duck and passed through under it....his reaction would insinctly be that his arm would follow your body movment and you would then have the opening to use the rear arm uppercut as you followed his arm through etc :cool:.


Hooking the lead arm from the outside and immediatley uppercut under the reaction to it is possible too, while moving into distance. (Only if your in in opposite stances) right arm lead verses left arm lead or the reverse of course.

Turning an uppercut over into a cross from down real low will follow the path of the target and can get a result in some cases where they are already on the move early.

IF your heads are at the same level ,an uppercut straight into an overhand bomb is going to find the natural opening that the uppercut creates both using two hands one up the inside alley and the other over the outside if your both in the same stances or just the one arm in that combo if your both in the reverse stance to each other.

i dont know about a long long left hook. But if you're going to throw it as a lead punch, i found that the hook off the jab works well. The jab determines if they're in range or not, if they are, then pow, twist your hips and nail em.

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Originally Posted by ICB

I wouldn't throw uppercuts from the outside watch what happened to Douglas against Holyfield, And watch what happened to Leonard throwing hooks from the outside against Hearns in the rematch. I find it so easy to counter my opponent when they try and throw hooks or uppercuts from the outside, good luck to you Donny if you can do it effectively but its not something i would ever do too risky.

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You'll realise yourself that this is not necesarily true as you get more expierience.

Working on the outside, sometimes you need that uppercut in order to stop and opponent hunching his way in.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by ICB

I wouldn't throw uppercuts from the outside watch what happened to Douglas against Holyfield, And watch what happened to Leonard throwing hooks from the outside against Hearns in the rematch. I find it so easy to counter my opponent when they try and throw hooks or uppercuts from the outside, good luck to you Donny if you can do it effectively but its not something i would ever do too risky.

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You'll realise yourself that this is not necesarily true as you get more expierience.

Working on the outside, sometimes you need that uppercut in order to stop and opponent hunching his way in.

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When you guys are talking, your stating 'from the outside' as being (from at a greater distance than at nose to nose fighting).

I read it that way.
No wonder some of my posts are confusing for some if i dont explain what Im thinking in detail:

I often use that same term trying to describe the difference between fighting from or launching a strike from in between someones arms (on the inside) and then from the "outside" as in outside of their guard or over the top of one of their arms.

Is there a correct boxing term to use for this difference?

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by ICB

I wouldn't throw uppercuts from the outside watch what happened to Douglas against Holyfield, And watch what happened to Leonard throwing hooks from the outside against Hearns in the rematch. I find it so easy to counter my opponent when they try and throw hooks or uppercuts from the outside, good luck to you Donny if you can do it effectively but its not something i would ever do too risky.

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You'll realise yourself that this is not necesarily true as you get more expierience.

Working on the outside, sometimes you need that uppercut in order to stop and opponent hunching his way in.

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Sorry Donny,I view an outside uppercut as a gift from god,I can walk right in on it,even at my age. Ill be in your jockstrap almost immediately wich is where I want to be anyway. And an outside uppercut, gives me my in.

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by ICB

I wouldn't throw uppercuts from the outside watch what happened to Douglas against Holyfield, And watch what happened to Leonard throwing hooks from the outside against Hearns in the rematch. I find it so easy to counter my opponent when they try and throw hooks or uppercuts from the outside, good luck to you Donny if you can do it effectively but its not something i would ever do too risky.

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You'll realise yourself that this is not necesarily true as you get more expierience.

Working on the outside, sometimes you need that uppercut in order to stop and opponent hunching his way in.

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When you guys are talking, your stating 'from the outside' as being (from at a greater distance than at nose to nose fighting).

I read it that way.
No wonder some of my posts are confusing for some if i dont explain what Im thinking in detail:

I often use that same term trying to describe the difference between fighting from or launching a strike from in between someones arms (on the inside) and then from the "outside" as in outside of their guard or over the top of one of their arms.

Is there a correct boxing term to use for this difference?

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I've learned three distances. Inside fighting, medium distance and long distance.
Long distance and medium distance I treat as "the outside."
I only regard toe to toe pursuits as truely being on the inside.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by ICB

I wouldn't throw uppercuts from the outside watch what happened to Douglas against Holyfield, And watch what happened to Leonard throwing hooks from the outside against Hearns in the rematch. I find it so easy to counter my opponent when they try and throw hooks or uppercuts from the outside, good luck to you Donny if you can do it effectively but its not something i would ever do too risky.

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You'll realise yourself that this is not necesarily true as you get more expierience.

Working on the outside, sometimes you need that uppercut in order to stop and opponent hunching his way in.

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Sorry Donny,I view an outside uppercut as a gift from god,I can walk right in on it,even at my age. Ill be in your jockstrap almost immediately wich is where I want to be anyway. And an outside uppercut, gives me my in.

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I've seen them used with percision by Robinson, Ali, Jones and Arguello.
When facing a shorter fighter that tries to come straight forward they feint, draw a reaction and time it. They later feint again and when the reaction occurs, step in uppercut step out.

Its a classy little movement i'm finding difficult to learn.

Donny,one of the first things I tell my fighters when I show them Ali fights is,"Dont do that,your not Ali"

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Donny,one of the first things I tell my fighters when I show them Ali fights is,"Dont do that,your not Ali"

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Ha true enough, but I've developed some speed in my feet so I might attempt a few bits and pieces.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I would never train to throw a lunging hook.
I feel that lunging is by no means positive and should actually be discouraged.

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Don't knock it till you try it....it's not like I just lept in with no defense and no regard for my chin.


When you feint the right cross you either get your opponent to try and cover up or they don't do anything and wait to time you coming in. After you feint you have your right hand up close to your chin protecting any counter shots and you also shift your weight to put big power on your hook.


This is not something to use all the time but like the right hook it can be used to great effect in certain situations.

I've tried it.

I've found that it not only robs you of your balance and leverage it also steals an opportunity for work from you.

When you lunge you lose the ability to apply full power and precision. You're not grounded, losing you're capacity for power.
However, lunging means you're also going to be moving towards an opponent at a fast rate. Even if you do connect you're bound to be two close to capitalise, smothering your own work and wasting opportunity.

Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano, and Mike Tyson used it...you follow up with a right uppercut and you've just ran THEM into another power punch.


But fine, you do you....I'm just throwing out some stuff that has worked for me.


I doubt the guys I've hit with my hook have felt that anything was left out of it....I know I couldn't tell I hit any lighter because I don't leave the ground when I throw that combination...I wait until the fighter is in range pump the jab...pause step forward roll the right shoulder and see if they move their arms forward then I drop the bomb....if not I just keep my head moving and work the 1-2 until they buy the feint



But I know the best hook is the quick counter one and not the one loaded up on...I throw those different ways as well. On the quick one I turn my wrist aiming for the point of the chin, on the big one I keep my wrist perpendicular to the ground and I just want to make contact with anything a head, a glove, an arm, the body, anything just to let my opponent know what's coming.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano, and Mike Tyson used it...you follow up with a right uppercut and you've just ran THEM into another power punch.


But fine, you do you....I'm just throwing out some stuff that has worked for me.

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ya missed one, the late and great Floyd Patterson. I remember being in awe of his leaping left hook, seeing him lay out Johansson with it was awesome. He often executed it in the same manner you're talking about too, in which he would feint with his right to the body, and that would coil up his legs to unleash that leaping left hook. good stuff.

YouTube - fgjh

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I've tried it.

I've found that it not only robs you of your balance and leverage it also steals an opportunity for work from you.

When you lunge you lose the ability to apply full power and precision. You're not grounded, losing you're capacity for power.
However, lunging means you're also going to be moving towards an opponent at a fast rate. Even if you do connect you're bound to be two close to capitalise, smothering your own work and wasting opportunity.

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Donny i see where Lyle is coming from, but i can also see your POV of the whole idea of 'lunging' also . You see it as a balls out jump at your opponent and swing, which yes, would either stuff your range or leave you off balanced and in no position to launch any other offense.

But i think Lyle means a controlled calculated lunge. As with any other punch thrown in boxing, all the factors have to be considered, such as your range, the timing, the direction your opponent is moving, etc etc. Even moreso with the leaping left hook. If you time it correctly and find the perfect range, that seemingly desperate lunge is nothing more than a method of closing that distance, and if landed, it can put you in a perfect position to throw another punch off of it.

But theres really no argument, because you're correct also. As with any lunging attack, you miscalculate and you can be in a world of shit, with everything you mentioned, stuffed range, no chance of a follow up attack. But it cant be totally ruled out of your arsenal. Just gotta know when to use it and how to set it up.

Its basically,if you get caught lunging with a straight right your screwed. Actually Frazier and Tyson didnt lunge as much as weave in

Feinting the right cross is an easy way to "weave in"...it's like a pitcher throwing fastball after fastball and then dropping a curve that buckles their knees.


I like trying to set up my punches off of other punches because I want a complete game but if something works well then I'll go back to it and that "calculated lunge" is something that has worked very well for me

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Feinting the right cross is an easy way to "weave in"...it's like a pitcher throwing fastball after fastball and then dropping a curve that buckles their knees.


I like trying to set up my punches off of other punches because I want a complete game but if something works well then I'll go back to it and that "calculated lunge" is something that has worked very well for me

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Obviuolsy you'd adjust, but what happens if yiou get into the habit of lunging and your opponent times you?

I just can't ever see where an outside opening uppercut would not be dangerous to someone's health.

I'm really working on incorporating my uppercut in now to different combinations. Like say jab-straight right-uppercut. Trying to work from head to body, then to uppercut, like say an overhand right-lefthook to body-uppercut. Trying to also get it as part of an inside offensive-defence for those shorter fighters that are good coming in.

I found as mentioned in an earlier thread my opening hook I was having so much fun with and landing at will soon got exposed as a weakness when I ran into a tall fighter. So I rarely ever open with it any more.

Who knows, maybe things will come full circle and I can get back to opening with it...the hook...but for now it is a finishing shot and more effective like that for me.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Obviuolsy you'd adjust, but what happens if yiou get into the habit of lunging and your opponent times you?

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Well if you're feinting and you opponent keeps falling for it then it's going to be mighty hard for them to do.


Also for feints to be effective you cannot use the same moves over and over again. For my style of landing a haymaker left hook you need to set up the right cross and for the right cross to be effective it helps to have a good jab....I use both always.


I like to see what works for other fighters and impliment it in my own way...I have used some Tyson-esque combinations and head movement, I have used the Klitschko's swat down on the guard....they all work pretty well

Hi,
I actually have some experience of using the hooks (not wild swings) in street fights.One thing I learned is using front half of your foot(the part ohter than the heel) as an anchor.When you throw a hook just pivot on it like crushing a peanut.This helps in making the hook centerlined i.e prevents it from degenerating into a swing also you can lead off the hook very easily which means after throwing a left jab just pivot on your left and you can produce a left hook without retracting the punching left hand.http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...cons/icon6.gif

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Obviuolsy you'd adjust, but what happens if yiou get into the habit of lunging and your opponent times you?

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Well if you're feinting and you opponent keeps falling for it then it's going to be mighty hard for them to do.


Also for feints to be effective you cannot use the same moves over and over again. For my style of landing a haymaker left hook you need to set up the right cross and for the right cross to be effective it helps to have a good jab....I use both always.


I like to see what works for other fighters and impliment it in my own way...I have used some Tyson-esque combinations and head movement, I have used the Klitschko's swat down on the guard....they all work pretty well

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At the end of the day, anything can work in a ring if its implemented at the correct time. There can be a correct place/time for everything, if your mind is capable ,your body can follow. Cant think of a set situation where an outside uppercut from a distance would work in complete safety unless you were following his arm back in, or you were :rolleyes: Forrest that time facing Mayorga who stuck his chin right out and put his hands behind his back.

I learned how to throw a hook properly yesterday:)

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I learned how to throw a hook properly yesterday:)

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So did your rear heel face the target with your elbow down and your fist vertical ?











Only stirring ;D theres a couple of ways depending on the target isnt there?

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I learned how to throw a hook properly yesterday:)

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So did your rear heel face the target with your elbow down and your fist vertical ?











Only stirring ;D theres a couple of ways depending on the target isnt there?

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Not too specific-- he could've been fly fishing for all we know. ;D

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I learned how to throw a hook properly yesterday:)

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So did your rear heel face the target with your elbow down and your fist vertical ?
Only stirring ;D theres a couple of ways depending on the target isnt there?

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Nope:)

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Originally Posted by Chris Nagel

Not too specific-- he could've been fly fishing for all we know. ;D

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Fishing did come up actually.

I'm very happy, I've been shadowboxing it since!

That's good to hear. Can you tell us what you've been doing differently on the hook?

P.S. Has the term "improper hook" ever come to mind? Maybe something to think about when you accidentally nail someone in the balls. ;)

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Originally Posted by Chris Nagel

That's good to hear. Can you tell us what you've been doing differently on the hook?

P.S. Has the term "improper hook" ever come to mind? Maybe something to think about when you accidentally nail someone in the balls. ;)

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I've always been proud of my hook.
It's literally won me some fights and I've stopped a couple of fellas with it, but I've had it altered for me and now its so easy!

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Chris Nagel

That's good to hear. Can you tell us what you've been doing differently on the hook?

P.S. Has the term "improper hook" ever come to mind? Maybe something to think about when you accidentally nail someone in the balls. ;)

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I've always been proud of my hook.
It's literally won me some fights and I've stopped a couple of fellas with it, but I've had it altered for me and now its so easy!

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He is not going to tell us, he is forum fishing with his new hook;).