-
Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Firstly, I thought the stoppage may have been a touch premature does anyone else agree. I know he had taken a lot of shots but I thought he should have been given a count and maybe the chance to get back to his corner (it was close to the end of the round).
In saying that, Casamayor was seriously hurt. We are talking about a guy who's taken the best shots of Freitas, Corrales and Castillo and he gets stopped by Marquez moving up. That came as a major surprise to me.
What a performance.
Pacquaio can't call himself p4p number one until he fights this guy again. You would have to think Marquez victory over Cassa is far more impressive than Pac's against Diaz. Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa IMO...
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Marquez is an incredible fighter, simple as. Not sure a prime Casamayor could've beaten the man tonight. And Pac being no.1 p4p is now pretty well baseless until he fights MArquez again, agreed there.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Not really suprised i predicted a 9TKO was off 2 rounds. :D Way to shut Casa's mouth my boy ;D:cool:
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Waaaaait a minute here. Are we being serious? Because Marquez looked good that makes Pac look bad? Let's be honest, technically, Pacquiao beat Marquez twice. If not for a judge's scoring error in the first match it wouldn't have been ruled a draw. And in the rematch Pac beat him. I'm not saying they shouldn't get it on again, they should, but Marquez's victory tonight should only enhance Pacquiao's resume, not downgrade it. If everybody on Pac's list had been a bum we'd laugh at the thought of putting him up as #1 P4P. So the reverse works. He's fought tough guys who have gone on to beat tough guys. So that moves him up, not down.
I just hope Pac doesn't derail his future by fighting Oscar.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Firstly, I thought the stoppage may have been a touch premature does anyone else agree. I know he had taken a lot of shots but I thought he should have been given a count and maybe the chance to get back to his corner (it was close to the end of the round).
In saying that, Casamayor was seriously hurt. We are talking about a guy who's taken the best shots of Freitas, Corrales and Castillo and he gets stopped by Marquez moving up. That came as a major surprise to me.
What a performance.
Pacquaio can't call himself p4p number one until he fights this guy again. You would have to think Marquez victory over Cassa is far more impressive than Pac's against Diaz. Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa IMO...
"Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa" - this is highly debatable since David Diaz stopped Armando Santa Cruz who in turn was robbed against Casa...
Marquez win only solidified PAC's status as the no. 1 lightweight in the world and at the same time the no. 1 P4P best boxer in the world...
IMO, lightweight rankings should look like this right now:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Edwin Valero
6. Breidis Prescott
7. Michael Katsidis
8. Julio Diaz
9. David Diaz
10. Jesus Chavez
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
once casamayor started pointing at his chin and motioning that the punch didn't hurt, i knew he was done. i don't know why fighters do that. When they shake their heads or point at their chins and motion that a punch didn't hurt, you know they were hurt bad. So stupid.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Killface
Waaaaait a minute here. Are we being serious? Because Marquez looked good that makes Pac look bad? Let's be honest, technically, Pacquiao beat Marquez twice. If not for a judge's scoring error in the first match it wouldn't have been ruled a draw. And in the rematch Pac beat him. I'm not saying they shouldn't get it on again, they should, but Marquez's victory tonight should only enhance Pacquiao's resume, not downgrade it. If everybody on Pac's list had been a bum we'd laugh at the thought of putting him up as #1 P4P. So the reverse works. He's fought tough guys who have gone on to beat tough guys. So that moves him up, not down.
I just hope Pac doesn't derail his future by fighting Oscar.
I think Juan Manuel Marquez beat Manny Pacquiao twice and so do alot of people infact majorty of the boxing websites and journalists at ringside thought Marquez won.
Associated Press:114-113 Marquez
- Joe Santoliquito:115-112 Marquez
- Dan Rafael, ESPN.com: 114-113 Marquez
- Darius Ortiz, ESPN.com:114-113 Marquez
- Eric Raskin, ESPN.com:114-113 Marquez
- Brian Kenny, Friday Night Fights:115-112 Marquez
- Scott Mallon, Ring Magazine / Boxing News / The Fist / Boxing Digest:114-113 Marquez
- Yahoo Sports:115-112 Marquez
- Fight News.com:115-112 Marquez
- Steve Carp, Las Vegas Review Journal: 114-113 Marquez
- Norm Fraunheim, Arizona Republic:114-113 Marquez
- Rich Marrotta, Top Rank TV:114-113 Marquez
- Kieran Mulvaney, Reuters:114-113 Marquez
- DogHouseBoxing:114-113 Marquez
- Brett Conway, MaxBoxing.com:114-113 Marquez
- Rick Reeno, BoxingScene.com:114-113 Marquez
- Gary Randall, MaxBoxing.com:114-113 Marquez
- Bart Barry, 15Rounds.com:115-113 Marquez
- Bruce McTavish, International Judge:115-112 Marquez
- Francis Ochoa, Philippine Daily Inquirer:114-113 Marquez
- Scott Christ, BadLeftHook.com:114-113 Marquez
- William Detloff, The Ring Magazine:115-113 Marquez
- Ron Borges, TheSweetScience.com:114-113 Marquez
- Bert Sugar:Marquez
- Max Kellerman & Bob Papa:Marquez in both fights
- Nonito Donaire:114-113 Marquez
- Filipino Sports Analysts Ronnie Nathanielsz, Recah Trinidad and Ed Picson all picked Marquez.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Marquez is an incredible fighter, simple as. Not sure a prime Casamayor could've beaten the man tonight. And Pac being no.1 p4p is now pretty well baseless until he fights MArquez again, agreed there.
With PBF retired, it's already widely accepted that PAC is no. 1 P4P best boxer in the world and it's not determined without any basis...
Even with Marquez win over Casa, IMO he's still at no. 3 behind PAC and Calzaghe in the P4P rankings...
.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Firstly, I thought the stoppage may have been a touch premature does anyone else agree. I know he had taken a lot of shots but I thought he should have been given a count and maybe the chance to get back to his corner (it was close to the end of the round).
In saying that, Casamayor was seriously hurt. We are talking about a guy who's taken the best shots of Freitas, Corrales and Castillo and he gets stopped by Marquez moving up. That came as a major surprise to me.
What a performance.
Pacquaio can't call himself p4p number one until he fights this guy again. You would have to think Marquez victory over Cassa is far more impressive than Pac's against Diaz. Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa IMO...
"Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa" - this is highly debatable since David Diaz stopped Armando Santa Cruz who in turn was robbed against Casa...
Marquez win only solidified PAC's status as the no. 1 lightweight in the world and at the same time the no. 1 P4P best boxer in the world...
IMO, lightweight rankings should look like this right now:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Edwin Valero
6. Breidis Prescott
7. Michael Katsidis
8. Julio Diaz
9. David Diaz
10. Jesus Chavez
How is Pacquaio number 1? he moved up and fought David Diaz! Marques moved up and fought Joel Casamayor and stopped him.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
I think it would be unfair to comment on 135 supremacy when Nate Campbell, the unified champion, is yet to fight.
Also, im very surprised that Casa lost.
Id only really came to like Casamoyor after the manor in which he beat Katsidis. I admired the ability to do the necessary and conjure a win out of nothing.
I figured that Marquez, a fighter coming up in weight, was a fighter that Casamayor could do the necessary against.
Props to Marquez though. He looked okay at the weight. Im glad for him.
He's well on his way to becoming Mexico's 1st 3-weight world champion. ;)
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
After pac vs DLH. It should be Pac vs Marquez.
let's not debate about Pac winning over marquez..... What we should be asking is a Trilogy between the two fighters.
Now that would be very very exciting!!!!:cool::cool::cool:
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Killface
Waaaaait a minute here. Are we being serious? Because Marquez looked good that makes Pac look bad? Let's be honest, technically, Pacquiao beat Marquez twice. If not for a judge's scoring error in the first match it wouldn't have been ruled a draw. And in the rematch Pac beat him. I'm not saying they shouldn't get it on again, they should, but Marquez's victory tonight should only enhance Pacquiao's resume, not downgrade it. If everybody on Pac's list had been a bum we'd laugh at the thought of putting him up as #1 P4P. So the reverse works. He's fought tough guys who have gone on to beat tough guys. So that moves him up, not down.
I just hope Pac doesn't derail his future by fighting Oscar.
Didn't say it made Pac look bad mate - I just mean that Pac is at the top of a lot of people's p4p lists and while Marquez is out there, he probably shouldn't be. The first fight was a draw. After the first round which was a disaster and the second where he found his feet, Marquez dominated the rest of the fight. The second fight was highly controversial decision.
So, why isn't Marquez regarded on an equal footing with Pac when it comes to p4p? I think knocking out Casamayor in your lightweight debut is a helluva lot more impressive than knocking out David Diaz...
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Firstly, I thought the stoppage may have been a touch premature does anyone else agree. I know he had taken a lot of shots but I thought he should have been given a count and maybe the chance to get back to his corner (it was close to the end of the round).
In saying that, Casamayor was seriously hurt. We are talking about a guy who's taken the best shots of Freitas, Corrales and Castillo and he gets stopped by Marquez moving up. That came as a major surprise to me.
What a performance.
Pacquaio can't call himself p4p number one until he fights this guy again. You would have to think Marquez victory over Cassa is far more impressive than Pac's against Diaz. Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa IMO...
"Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa" - this is highly debatable since David Diaz stopped Armando Santa Cruz who in turn was robbed against Casa...
Marquez win only solidified PAC's status as the no. 1 lightweight in the world and at the same time the no. 1 P4P best boxer in the world...
IMO, lightweight rankings should look like this right now:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Edwin Valero
6. Breidis Prescott
7. Michael Katsidis
8. Julio Diaz
9. David Diaz
10. Jesus Chavez
How is Pacquaio number 1? he moved up and fought David Diaz! Marques moved up and fought Joel Casamayor and stopped him.
PAC stopped former champ Diaz inside 9 rounds in total domination... ;) JMM stopped Casa in the 11th with 2 judges having the fight even after 10 rounds...
The no. 1 lightweight spot could be a toss up between Pacquiao and Campbell right now... I considered PAC as the no. 1 lightweight due to his status in other rankings;
- current no. 1 P4P
- considered the no. 1 super featherweight before he jumped to lightweight
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
"Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa" - this is highly debatable since David Diaz stopped Armando Santa Cruz who in turn was robbed against Casa...
Marquez win only solidified PAC's status as the no. 1 lightweight in the world and at the same time the no. 1 P4P best boxer in the world...
IMO, lightweight rankings should look like this right now:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Edwin Valero
6. Breidis Prescott
7. Michael Katsidis
8. Julio Diaz
9. David Diaz
10. Jesus Chavez
How is Pacquaio number 1? he moved up and fought David Diaz! Marques moved up and fought Joel Casamayor and stopped him.
PAC stopped former champ Diaz inside 9 rounds in total domination... ;) JMM stopped Casa in the 11th with 2 judges having the fight even after 10 rounds...
The no. 1 lightweight spot could be a toss up between Pacquiao and Campbell right now... I considered PAC as the no. 1 lightweight due to his status in other rankings;
- current no. 1 P4P
- considered the no. 1 super featherweight before he jumped to lightweight
Think you should rate Pac at lightweight based on what he has done at lightweight. He's KO'd Diaz. Marquez has KO'd Casa. I'd have my lightweight ratings as...
1)Campbell
2)Marquez
3)Pac
In saying that I'd back Marquez and Pac to beat Campbell but as the unified champ, I think at this stage Campbell deserves to be no. 1.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
well at least he go beat by a true fighter
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Firstly, I thought the stoppage may have been a touch premature does anyone else agree. I know he had taken a lot of shots but I thought he should have been given a count and maybe the chance to get back to his corner (it was close to the end of the round).
In saying that, Casamayor was seriously hurt. We are talking about a guy who's taken the best shots of Freitas, Corrales and Castillo and he gets stopped by Marquez moving up. That came as a major surprise to me.
What a performance.
Pacquaio can't call himself p4p number one until he fights this guy again. You would have to think Marquez victory over Cassa is far more impressive than Pac's against Diaz. Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa IMO...
i wouldnt call it a major surprize..fact is i predicted a llate tko win for jmm on another thread.Its the other way around...I was surprized at casa's competitiveness.(This guy is over the hill...got his ass koed by sta cruz and was lucky to beat katsidis).He was doing well with his counterpunching and even before the stoppage...either one was really dominating the other ( 2 judges scored it even).It was a good win though by jmm but it wasnt a dominating performance...so i wouldnt call it a far more impressive win than pacs total one sided demolition of david.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
when were people gonna realise that Casamayor was slipping?
Hoe old is he like 37 now?
JMM is a great fighter. But Casamayor has been out of his prime for years.
And if anything it increases pacquiaos win and chin :)
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
How is Pacquaio number 1? he moved up and fought David Diaz! Marques moved up and fought Joel Casamayor and stopped him.
PAC stopped former champ Diaz inside 9 rounds in total domination... ;) JMM stopped Casa in the 11th with 2 judges having the fight even after 10 rounds...
The no. 1 lightweight spot could be a toss up between Pacquiao and Campbell right now... I considered PAC as the no. 1 lightweight due to his status in other rankings;
- current no. 1 P4P
- considered the no. 1 super featherweight before he jumped to lightweight
Think you should rate Pac at lightweight based on what he has done at lightweight. He's KO'd Diaz. Marquez has KO'd Casa. I'd have my lightweight ratings as...
1)Campbell
2)Marquez
3)Pac
In saying that I'd back Marquez and Pac to beat Campbell but as the unified champ, I think at this stage Campbell deserves to be no. 1.
That's not the way I ranked them (highlighted statement above). Boxers highly rated in their previous division like champs will be highly rated in their new division. That explained the high ranking of WBA 130 champ Edwin Valero in my lightweight ranking even he has not yet fought a single match at lightweight.
I can't ranked Marquez higher than PAC at lightweight since their accomplishments (at lightweight) is more or less equal and since JMM was ranked below PAC at 130, it also follows at 135 so far...
.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
when were people gonna realise that Casamayor was slipping?
Hoe old is he like 37 now?
JMM is a great fighter. But Casamayor has been out of his prime for years.
And if anything it increases pacquiaos win and chin :)
If Lacy or Kessler beat Calzaghe would you say Calzaghe was old? Also, are you the type of person than says Tszyu was old when he lost to Hatton?
I'm not having a go mate but do you see what I'm getting at?
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
I agree with Saddo's ranking list except that Katsidis is grossly overrated. Prescott as well doesn't deserve ranking yet. In their places you could put Peterson and possibly Jueregui at 9 and 10. You have to have Campbell at the top even though I dispute the way he beat Diaz. Pac is clearly number 2 at this point.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
when were people gonna realise that Casamayor was slipping?
Hoe old is he like 37 now?
JMM is a great fighter. But Casamayor has been out of his prime for years.
And if anything it increases pacquiaos win and chin :)
How old is Juan Manuel Marquez ?
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
"Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa" - this is highly debatable since David Diaz stopped Armando Santa Cruz who in turn was robbed against Casa...
Marquez win only solidified PAC's status as the no. 1 lightweight in the world and at the same time the no. 1 P4P best boxer in the world...
IMO, lightweight rankings should look like this right now:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Edwin Valero
6. Breidis Prescott
7. Michael Katsidis
8. Julio Diaz
9. David Diaz
10. Jesus Chavez
How is Pacquaio number 1? he moved up and fought David Diaz! Marques moved up and fought Joel Casamayor and stopped him.
PAC stopped former champ Diaz inside 9 rounds in total domination... ;) JMM stopped Casa in the 11th with 2 judges having the fight even after 10 rounds...
The no. 1 lightweight spot could be a toss up between Pacquiao and Campbell right now... I considered PAC as the no. 1 lightweight due to his status in other rankings;
- current no. 1 P4P
- considered the no. 1 super featherweight before he jumped to lightweight
Wrong, Casa had the ring title, JMM beat him that makes JMM the champ at light weight. Campbell beat the UNIFIED title holder Juan Diaz to take the spot behind Casa. SO with Campbell AND Marquez in the picture, PAC has NO claim to to number 1 at 135.
I still have PAC at #1 p4p because of the official decisions.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hairymadness6
I agree with Saddo's ranking list except that Katsidis is grossly overrated. Prescott as well doesn't deserve ranking yet. In their places you could put Peterson and possibly Jueregui at 9 and 10. You have to have Campbell at the top even though I dispute the way he beat Diaz. Pac is clearly number 2 at this point.
Actually I forgot to retain Casamayor in my rankings... He was not dominated by Marquez so I'll place him at no. 5 ...
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Edwin Valero
7. Breidis Prescott
8. Michael Katsidis
9. Julio Diaz
10. David Diaz
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
I thought that JMM was going to win this one, but I have to admit that I did not expect the TKO. It was a very good fight, I had it even up to round 10. I believe that Joel tried to stand up to quick and the other mistake was to start exchanging blows when he was still hurt instead of holding to gain time and recover, although he showed a big heart. It will not bother me to see a rematch between these 2 guys. Big applause for both of them.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hairymadness6
I agree with Saddo's ranking list except that Katsidis is grossly overrated. Prescott as well doesn't deserve ranking yet. In their places you could put Peterson and possibly Jueregui at 9 and 10. You have to have Campbell at the top even though I dispute the way he beat Diaz. Pac is clearly number 2 at this point.
Actually I forgot to retain Casamayor in my rankings... He was not dominated by Marquez so I'll place him at no. 5 ...
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Edwin Valero
7. Breidis Prescott
8. Michael Katsidis
9. Julio Diaz
10. David Diaz
1. Nate Campbell
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Julio Diaz
7. David Diaz
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Yuri Romanov
10. Michael Katsidis
Why is Edwin Valero on the list ? he hasn't fought at Lightweight.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kojikabuto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Firstly, I thought the stoppage may have been a touch premature does anyone else agree. I know he had taken a lot of shots but I thought he should have been given a count and maybe the chance to get back to his corner (it was close to the end of the round).
In saying that, Casamayor was seriously hurt. We are talking about a guy who's taken the best shots of Freitas, Corrales and Castillo and he gets stopped by Marquez moving up. That came as a major surprise to me.
What a performance.
Pacquaio can't call himself p4p number one until he fights this guy again. You would have to think Marquez victory over Cassa is far more impressive than Pac's against Diaz. Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa IMO...
i wouldnt call it a major surprize..fact is i predicted a llate tko win for jmm on another thread.Its the other way around...I was surprized at casa's competitiveness.(This guy is over the hill...got his ass koed by sta cruz and was lucky to beat katsidis).He was doing well with his counterpunching and even before the stoppage...either one was really dominating the other ( 2 judges scored it even).It was a good win though by jmm but it wasnt a dominating performance...so i wouldnt call it a far more impressive win than pacs total one sided demolition of david.
pretty much anticipated a stoppage by jmm. casa lasted 1 round longer than i predicted. he's definitely more prepared and had shed the ring rust for this fight. jmm really had problems with him all through out the fight.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
How is Pacquaio number 1? he moved up and fought David Diaz! Marques moved up and fought Joel Casamayor and stopped him.
PAC stopped former champ Diaz inside 9 rounds in total domination... ;) JMM stopped Casa in the 11th with 2 judges having the fight even after 10 rounds...
The no. 1 lightweight spot could be a toss up between Pacquiao and Campbell right now... I considered PAC as the no. 1 lightweight due to his status in other rankings;
- current no. 1 P4P
- considered the no. 1 super featherweight before he jumped to lightweight
Wrong, Casa had the ring title, JMM beat him that makes JMM the champ at light weight. Campbell beat the UNIFIED title holder Juan Diaz to take the spot behind Casa. SO with Campbell AND Marquez in the picture, PAC has NO claim to to number 1 at 135.
I still have PAC at #1 p4p because of the official decisions.
Of course we'll based it on official results... ;) There's no way we can settle this if we have our own "unofficial results" ... :lolhaha:
So the current beltholders at lightweight and other titles (if any):
Pacquiao - WBC 135 belt, No. 1 P4P
Campbell - WBA, IBF, WBO 135 belts
Marquez - Ring 135 belt
With PAC's official win over Marquez, there's no way Marquez be ranked higher than PAC... It's a toss up between PAC and Campbell... ;D
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
PAC stopped former champ Diaz inside 9 rounds in total domination... ;) JMM stopped Casa in the 11th with 2 judges having the fight even after 10 rounds...
The no. 1 lightweight spot could be a toss up between Pacquiao and Campbell right now... I considered PAC as the no. 1 lightweight due to his status in other rankings;
- current no. 1 P4P
- considered the no. 1 super featherweight before he jumped to lightweight
Wrong, Casa had the ring title, JMM beat him that makes JMM the champ at light weight. Campbell beat the UNIFIED title holder Juan Diaz to take the spot behind Casa. SO with Campbell AND Marquez in the picture, PAC has NO claim to to number 1 at 135.
I still have PAC at #1 p4p because of the official decisions.
Of course we'll based it on official results... ;) There's no way we can settle this if we have our own "unofficial results" ... :lolhaha:
So the current beltholders at lightweight and other titles (if any):
Pacquiao - WBC 135 belt, No. 1 P4P
Campbell - WBA, IBF, WBO 135 belts
Marquez - Ring 135 belt
With PAC's official win over Marquez, there's no way Marquez be ranked higher than PAC... It's a toss up between PAC and Campbell... ;D
p4p has nothing to do with this. Many things in boxing are controversial, this is not one of them. Marquez beat the lightweight champ end of.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
PAC stopped former champ Diaz inside 9 rounds in total domination... ;) JMM stopped Casa in the 11th with 2 judges having the fight even after 10 rounds...
The no. 1 lightweight spot could be a toss up between Pacquiao and Campbell right now... I considered PAC as the no. 1 lightweight due to his status in other rankings;
- current no. 1 P4P
- considered the no. 1 super featherweight before he jumped to lightweight
Wrong, Casa had the ring title, JMM beat him that makes JMM the champ at light weight. Campbell beat the UNIFIED title holder Juan Diaz to take the spot behind Casa. SO with Campbell AND Marquez in the picture, PAC has NO claim to to number 1 at 135.
I still have PAC at #1 p4p because of the official decisions.
Of course we'll based it on official results... ;) There's no way we can settle this if we have our own "unofficial results" ... :lolhaha:
So the current beltholders at lightweight and other titles (if any):
Pacquiao - WBC 135 belt, No. 1 P4P
Campbell - WBA, IBF, WBO 135 belts
Marquez - Ring 135 belt
With PAC's official win over Marquez, there's no way Marquez be ranked higher than PAC... It's a toss up between PAC and Campbell... ;D
I think you have the wrong idea just because Manny Pacquiao is P4P number 1 and because he beat Juan Manuel Marquez at *Super Featherweight* i really don't see what that has to do with *Lightweight rankings* the fact is Juan Manuel Marquez's one win at Lightweight was more impressive than Manny Pacquiao's one win at Lightweight based on opposition hence why Juan Manuel Marquez is higher on my list.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hairymadness6
I agree with Saddo's ranking list except that Katsidis is grossly overrated. Prescott as well doesn't deserve ranking yet. In their places you could put Peterson and possibly Jueregui at 9 and 10. You have to have Campbell at the top even though I dispute the way he beat Diaz. Pac is clearly number 2 at this point.
Actually I forgot to retain Casamayor in my rankings... He was not dominated by Marquez so I'll place him at no. 5 ...
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Edwin Valero
7. Breidis Prescott
8. Michael Katsidis
9. Julio Diaz
10. David Diaz
1. Nate Campbell
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Julio Diaz
7. David Diaz
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Yuri Romanov
10. Michael Katsidis
Why is Edwin Valero on the list ? he hasn't fought at Lightweight.
I already explained this in my previous post in this thread... Anyway I already ranked Valero at lightweight since he is highly ranked (a champ) at his previous division. So Valero could be ranked preferably below (or could be higher) the current champs in his new division... This actually makes sense if you consider what PAC and JMM (very highly ranked at 130) did to the champs at 135... :lolhaha:
.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Firstly, I thought the stoppage may have been a touch premature does anyone else agree. I know he had taken a lot of shots but I thought he should have been given a count and maybe the chance to get back to his corner (it was close to the end of the round).
In saying that, Casamayor was seriously hurt. We are talking about a guy who's taken the best shots of Freitas, Corrales and Castillo and he gets stopped by Marquez moving up. That came as a major surprise to me.
What a performance.
Pacquaio can't call himself p4p number one until he fights this guy again. You would have to think Marquez victory over Cassa is far more impressive than Pac's against Diaz. Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa IMO...
"Diaz couldn't hold a candle to Casa" - this is highly debatable since David Diaz stopped Armando Santa Cruz who in turn was robbed against Casa...
Marquez win only solidified PAC's status as the no. 1 lightweight in the world and at the same time the no. 1 P4P best boxer in the world...
IMO, lightweight rankings should look like this right now:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Edwin Valero
6. Breidis Prescott
7. Michael Katsidis
8. Julio Diaz
9. David Diaz
10. Jesus Chavez
How the hell is Pac man number 1?
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Actually I forgot to retain Casamayor in my rankings... He was not dominated by Marquez so I'll place him at no. 5 ...
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Edwin Valero
7. Breidis Prescott
8. Michael Katsidis
9. Julio Diaz
10. David Diaz
1. Nate Campbell
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Julio Diaz
7. David Diaz
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Yuri Romanov
10. Michael Katsidis
Why is Edwin Valero on the list ? he hasn't fought at Lightweight.
I already explained this in my previous post in this thread... Anyway I already ranked Valero at lightweight since he is highly ranked (a champ) at his previous division. So Valero could be ranked preferably below (or could be higher) the current champs in his new division...
This actually makes sense if you consider what PAC and JMM (very highly ranked at 130) did to the champs at 135... :lolhaha:
.
No actually it makes no sense to rank someone who has never fought in a division.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
1. Nate Campbell
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Julio Diaz
7. David Diaz
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Yuri Romanov
10. Michael Katsidis
Why is Edwin Valero on the list ? he hasn't fought at Lightweight.
I already explained this in my previous post in this thread... Anyway I already ranked Valero at lightweight since he is highly ranked (a champ) at his previous division. So Valero could be ranked preferably below (or could be higher) the current champs in his new division...
This actually makes sense if you consider what PAC and JMM (very highly ranked at 130) did to the champs at 135... :lolhaha:
.
No actually it makes no sense to rank someone who has never fought in a division.
Exactly thats like me rating Vernon Forrest number 6 in the Middleweight division its stupid and makes no sense.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Wrong, Casa had the ring title, JMM beat him that makes JMM the champ at light weight. Campbell beat the UNIFIED title holder Juan Diaz to take the spot behind Casa. SO with Campbell AND Marquez in the picture, PAC has NO claim to to number 1 at 135.
I still have PAC at #1 p4p because of the official decisions.
Of course we'll based it on official results... ;) There's no way we can settle this if we have our own "unofficial results" ... :lolhaha:
So the current beltholders at lightweight and other titles (if any):
Pacquiao - WBC 135 belt, No. 1 P4P
Campbell - WBA, IBF, WBO 135 belts
Marquez - Ring 135 belt
With PAC's official win over Marquez, there's no way Marquez be ranked higher than PAC... It's a toss up between PAC and Campbell... ;D
I think you have the wrong idea just because Manny Pacquiao is P4P number 1 and because he beat Juan Manuel Marquez at *Super Featherweight* i really don't see what that has to do with *Lightweight rankings* the fact is Juan Manuel Marquez's one win at Lightweight was more impressive than Manny Pacquiao's one win at Lightweight based on opposition hence why Juan Manuel Marquez is higher on my list.
Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
1. Nate Campbell
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Julio Diaz
7. David Diaz
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Yuri Romanov
10. Michael Katsidis
Why is Edwin Valero on the list ? he hasn't fought at Lightweight.
I already explained this in my previous post in this thread... Anyway I already ranked Valero at lightweight since he is highly ranked (a champ) at his previous division. So Valero could be ranked preferably below (or could be higher) the current champs in his new division...
This actually makes sense if you consider what PAC and JMM (very highly ranked at 130) did to the champs at 135... :lolhaha:
.
No actually it makes no sense to rank someone who has never fought in a division.
So why was PAC and JMM who has not fought at lightweight were the favorites when they faced the lightweight champs respectively in their first fight in that division?
Rankings also worked this way, based on fighter's complete resume...
.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Of course we'll based it on official results... ;) There's no way we can settle this if we have our own "unofficial results" ... :lolhaha:
So the current beltholders at lightweight and other titles (if any):
Pacquiao - WBC 135 belt, No. 1 P4P
Campbell - WBA, IBF, WBO 135 belts
Marquez - Ring 135 belt
With PAC's official win over Marquez, there's no way Marquez be ranked higher than PAC... It's a toss up between PAC and Campbell... ;D
I think you have the wrong idea just because Manny Pacquiao is P4P number 1 and because he beat Juan Manuel Marquez at *Super Featherweight* i really don't see what that has to do with *Lightweight rankings* the fact is Juan Manuel Marquez's one win at Lightweight was more impressive than Manny Pacquiao's one win at Lightweight based on opposition hence why Juan Manuel Marquez is higher on my list.
Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why
PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.
Since when has the betting favorite had anything to do with rank? I didn't see PAC or JMM ranked before their respective fights, I would love for you to provide some evidence of that.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I think you have the wrong idea just because Manny Pacquiao is P4P number 1 and because he beat Juan Manuel Marquez at *Super Featherweight* i really don't see what that has to do with *Lightweight rankings* the fact is Juan Manuel Marquez's one win at Lightweight was more impressive than Manny Pacquiao's one win at Lightweight based on opposition hence why Juan Manuel Marquez is higher on my list.
Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why
PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.
Since when has the betting favorite had anything to do with rank? I didn't see PAC or JMM ranked before their respective fights, I would love for you to provide some evidence of that.
Here's Fightnews dot com Lightweight rankings as of Sept. 8:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Joel Casamayor
4. Juan Diaz
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Joan Guzman
7. Edwin Valero
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Michael Katsidis
10. Julio Diaz
Noticed that Guzman and Valero hasn't fought at lightweight yet but they are ranked already...
.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
WBO Official Lightweight rankings as of Sept.
Champ NATE CAMPBELL USA Interim
1 Joan Guzman DR
2 Juan Diaz USA
3 Anthony Peterson USA
4 Jorge Terron (NABO) USA
5 Breidis Prescott (Int-Cont) COL
6 Michael Katsidis AUST
7 Martin Kristjansen DEN
8 Ali Funeka SA
9 Bobby Pacquiao (Asia-Pacific) PHI
10 Vicente Escobedo USA
Joan Guzman is there at no. 1 slot...
.
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.
Since when has the betting favorite had anything to do with rank? I didn't see PAC or JMM ranked before their respective fights, I would love for you to provide some evidence of that.
Here's Fightnews dot com Lightweight rankings as of Sept. 8:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nate Campbell
3. Joel Casamayor
4. Juan Diaz
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Joan Guzman
7. Edwin Valero
8. Breidis Prescott
9. Michael Katsidis
10. Julio Diaz
Noticed that Guzman and Valero hasn't fought at lightweight yet but they are ranked already...
.
So they are going for Fightnews.com belt?
Here, now that I've got you to accept the official decisions, how about we take the next step and look at the official rankings.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...cks/LWrank.jpg
-
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Of course we'll based it on official results... ;) There's no way we can settle this if we have our own "unofficial results" ... :lolhaha:
So the current beltholders at lightweight and other titles (if any):
Pacquiao - WBC 135 belt, No. 1 P4P
Campbell - WBA, IBF, WBO 135 belts
Marquez - Ring 135 belt
With PAC's official win over Marquez, there's no way Marquez be ranked higher than PAC... It's a toss up between PAC and Campbell... ;D
I think you have the wrong idea just because Manny Pacquiao is P4P number 1 and because he beat Juan Manuel Marquez at *Super Featherweight* i really don't see what that has to do with *Lightweight rankings* the fact is Juan Manuel Marquez's one win at Lightweight was more impressive than Manny Pacquiao's one win at Lightweight based on opposition hence why Juan Manuel Marquez is higher on my list.
Come on... Rankings is based on fighter's resume... Then how do you explained why PAC and JMM were the favorites in facing the lightweight champs respectively... This also explain why a boxer is ranked at his new division even if he has not fought yet in that division... It's based on the fighter's resume or record or accomplishments...
.
No there not thats why we have a thing called P4P rankings and individual rankings for each weightclass the fact is *Lightweight rankings* are based on a fighters accomplishment at that weightclass not what they have done at other weightclasses your confusing P4P rankings with individual rankings thats not how it works and as for Edwin Valero again i can't see what your getting at ? Edwin Valero has never fought at Lightweight and has no fights scheduled at Lightweight its stupid logic and if we all thought that way then every single fighter at the top of there division would automatically be rated in a higher weightclass.
