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Vindication is sweet.
I won't throw this in guys faces too much about Pavlik because he proved me wrong, he has a great chin. However, Hopkins was absolutely amazing, I felt he beat Calzaghe, not every round like this fight, but I felt he won that fight in a close one, but one thing I noticed when I was watching Calzaghe fights then Pavlik fights is that Cazlaghe fights like he has chip on his shoudler, if you hit him, he will do everything in his power to dominate you. I didn't feel that from Pavlik in his second fight against Taylor, and I didn't think, coming in to the fight he would have that type of attitude which would be needed to wear Hopkins down like Calzaghe did.
Originally this is how I thought the fight would always go, but because of other people on here who are knowlegable I thought it could be a close fight that Pavlik could win because of his normally much higher punch count, but Hopkins took him to school. Once again Pavlik had a good style against Taylor, but Hopkins had a very bad style for Pavlik, I think Kelly would do a lot better against Calzaghe, Roy Jones Jr, etc, etc because they aren't slick like B-Hop.
All in all I am very proud of B-Hop he is one of my top 5 fav's ever, and I feel that this performance along with the rest of them puts him in the top 30 all time, beating Winky Wright, Trinidad, Calzaghe, Pavlik, Taylor, Tarver all at 40+ IMO is something nobody else will or could ever do. The reason I think he is so special is I thought Winky would dominate him, then Calzaghe, then I smartened up for his fight against Pavlik, and he did things I wouldn't have expected in my wildest dreams.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
u know wat u were right and i was wrong but bhop was always one of m favorite fighters ever since knocking out tito. but i had no idea it woul go like that.:o
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I won't throw this in guys faces too much about Pavlik because he proved me wrong, he has a great chin. However, Hopkins was absolutely amazing, I felt he beat Calzaghe, not every round like this fight, but I felt he won that fight in a close one, but one thing I noticed when I was watching Calzaghe fights then Pavlik fights is that Cazlaghe fights like he a chip on his shoudler, if you hit him, he will do everything in his power to dominate you. I didn't feel that from Pavlik in his second fight against Taylor, and I didn't think, coming in to the fight he would have that type of attitude which would be needed to wear Hopkins down like Calzaghe did.
Originally this is how I thought the fight would always go, but because of other people on here who are knowlegable I thought it could be a close fight that Pavlik could win because of his normally much higher punch count, but Hopkins took him to school. Once again Pavlik had a good style against Taylor, but Hopkins had a very bad style for Pavlik, I think Kelly would do a lot better against Calzaghe, Roy Jones Jr, etc, etc because they aren't slick like B-Hop.
All in all I am very proud of B-Hop he is one of my top 5 fav's ever, and I feel that this performance along with the rest of them puts him in the top 30 all time, beating Winky Wright, Trinidad, Calzaghe, Pavlik, Taylor, Tarver all at 40+ IMO is something nobody else will or could ever do. The reason I think he is so special is I thought Winky would dominate him, then Calzaghe, then I smartened up for his fight against Pavlik, and he did things I wouldn't have expected in my wildest dreams.
Agreed.
Part of the reasons Pavliks style against JT was so good is because, well, it was Winky's style. And anyone else who keeps coming foward with straight punches can look good against JT too imo. Ouma looked good against JT at times. Fighters who throw wide punches, drop their guard, or stand in the pocket for too long (or on the ropes, or corner) usually get swarmed by people with good pressure and straights. Right place at the right time in my oppinion. He beat Miranda and Taylor, both men suffer from the exact same flaws, so technically, both men are tailor made for Pavliks style.
Bring in someone who won't stand infront of Pavlik long enough for him to do his best work, and you have what we saw tonight.
Great fight, i was highly entertained.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
But he also stood his ground, Hopkins didn't give up ring space as easily tonight, and I think it throws off the guys who like to punch a lot, which is what I have been saying potentially of Cotto coming forward more against Margarito. I felt when Clottey stood his ground he was doing so well against Margarito, then he stopped doing it, he changed his(best word I can think of is aura) when his hand got hurt, and Margarito jumped on him, but to conserve energy you need to move less, and punch more. I think Marquez does the same thing against Pacquaio, He realized Pacquaio needs range to land that huge left, so if you mix it up and come forwad as well as moving away it screws up their range, but Hopkins showed more than that, he showed his amazing defensive skills, his ability to throw combinations, his speed. He may not be physically as fast as Mayweather or Roy JOnes, but because of his focus and experience his reaction speed and underrated athletic ability I think in terms of overall speed he matchs those guys.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
I agree with every word here and I'll be honest, I'm somewhat vindicated too ;D
It didn't exactly go off as exactly I had thought out but I saw in the very opening seconds that Hopkins was making the jab miss and he was doing it with ease and Pavlik was shutting down that it was going to be a long night. Like you said Taeth at the start Hopkins was light on his feet and started just timing Kelly's step forward and getting off before Pavlik could even load up. Then he started just standing his ground and doing the same, he had Pavlik so weary he didn't commit to a single right hand he threw like he did against Miranda in the face of those bombs that Miranda had. It was because the jab he didn't think he could hit Hopkins.
Was absolutely fucking great and this is from a Pavlik fan and a guy who has had some hard feelings against B Hop after the Wright fight where I thought Winky got dirty old manned his way out of a title belt. Tonight it was just a teacher versus pupil and I hate to talk like this but B Hop made Pavlik his bitch to the point where Pavlik knew not to say anything but yes sir as Hopkins sent him to the principles office. Motherfucker bartender from my work who ordered it started playing music and I couldn't hear anything in the post fight except for that dialog.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
I was choked when Hopkins began crying, that was a special moment.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Speed kills. Hopkins still has speed in punching and body movements. Pavlik had no speed whatsoever, in this fight. He barely had an offence.
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Positives for Pavlik.
I think his defense wasn't that bad, obviously he needs to work on stopping that right hand from coming over his jab, but all in all, I think he blocked a lot more shots then I thought he would. Hopkins is so accurate with combinations and counter punching that having him land 32% is pretty good, I also noticed that Hopkins noticed Pavlik's power which will play a role in any fight where he will be able to land on opponents, and I think he also proved he has a good chin(which I was wrong about). I think if he learns more to punch through adversity he still has skill sets to beat 99% of the opponents that you could throw in front of him, which I already knew to be the case. I view this more like Kessler-Calzaghe then Calzaghe-Lacy. Lacy didn't utilize his god given abilities, but Pavlik makes the most of his more modest abilities, and he will be 90 times better then Lacy will ever be. I just think Bernard, baring him getting super tired from being old, was the absolute worst opponent for Pavlik.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I was choked when Hopkins began crying, that was a special moment.
I wasn't choked, actually in a way I was but not with tears or anything haha
But it was BADASS when he stared down press row. DAYAM, that shit was awesome. Sorry, I hate to do the hindsight deal, but how many were calling this a pointless fight even when it was signed? No one expected this and to be honest either but it was obviously a possibility and I believed Hopkins would have tremendous success just wasn't sure if it was going to account for 5 rounds or 7 with about 6 of the 12 close.
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
There was a major speed difference from the outset. I didn't expect hopkins to have that much of a speed advantage. I knew he was going to cut pavlik's offence but i had no idea that it would be as much as he did.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I was choked when Hopkins began crying, that was a special moment.
That is somewhat gay.
But yes, it was a great performance.
And Hopkins did not beat Calzaghe at all. Get outta here with that kind of nonsense. :rolleyes:
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I think his defense wasn't that bad, obviously he needs to work on stopping that right hand from coming over his jab, but all in all, I think he blocked a lot more shots then I thought he would. Hopkins is so accurate with combinations and counter punching that having him land 32% is pretty good, I also noticed that Hopkins noticed Pavlik's power which will play a role in any fight where he will be able to land on opponents, and I think he also proved he has a good chin(which I was wrong about). I think if he learns more to punch through adversity he still has skill sets to beat 99% of the opponents that you could throw in front of him, which I already knew to be the case. I view this more like Kessler-Calzaghe then Calzaghe-Lacy. Lacy didn't utilize his god given abilities, but Pavlik makes the most of his more modest abilities, and he will be 90 times better then Lacy will ever be. I just think Bernard, baring him getting super tired from being old, was the absolute worst opponent for Pavlik.
There may be many deficiencies in Pavlik's style of boxing, but there aren't that many fighters who can take advantage of them. Hopkins is in a class all his own.
Odd that anyone would have questions about Pavliks' chin after the first Taylor fight. How many fighters come off the canvas and dominate after getting hit with that many punches?
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
Fair Enough. If i was overhyping, I failed I am mystified.
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
At the end of the night, credit to Joe Calzaghe. He is a sure champ.
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
Credit due. I really am speechless. Credit due.
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
Positive for Pavlik?
He's alive
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
FROM THE FIGHTING CITY OF PHILADELPHIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
And Penn State won handily,
I was born in the Germantown section of Philadelphia PA,And I am going to gloat about today for weeks
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
He is/will still be the dominant force at middlewight - he should go after Abraham for a unification fight.
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
Few positives for Pavlik last night. Proved he's got a decent chin and that's about it. Also there should be a lesson learned to not step up weights as a naturaly heavier fighter will be stronger on the whole. (hope Pac's paying attention).
Pavlik threw about 2 half decent punches all night, Hopkins completely dominated and I've seen few full 12 rounders as one sided as that one. I had it 119-111, and I was being kind at that.
He needs to step back down to Middleweight and clear up there. In a fight where most people thought he'd walk throu an ageing 43 year old turns so one sided it could scar him for the rest of his career, I hope it doesn't.
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
He needs to concentrate on the Middleweight division where he still has a big fight with Arthur Abraham waiting for him.
He has skills, size, power and is still the best Middleweight in the World.
I think with time and experience he will become tactically better and more seasoned and while this is a setback it is one he can comeback from and get better.
Nobody has an easy fight with Hopkins and only the very best beat him i.e Roy Jones and Joe Calzaghe.
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
Except that Joe didn't beat him.
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Except that Joe didn't beat him.
Please go away you petty moron Calzaghe won!
As for a plus he has his 160lb belts the rest is bad he looked slow, sloppy, ploddy and chinny.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I was choked when Hopkins began crying, that was a special moment.
That is somewhat gay.
But yes, it was a great performance.
And Hopkins did not beat Calzaghe at all. Get outta here with that kind of nonsense. :rolleyes:
Its not gay, I understood what he went through, Its amazing to finally have a guy like that get the credit he deserves. He got almost no credit for any of his fights except Trinidad and Tarver, not against Taylor, Not against Glen Johnson, not against RJJ, not against Calzaghe, not against Winky Wright. Finally he is showing people how special he really is, however I knew this all along its just nice for everybody to get a look, and I think it really touched a cord within him.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I was choked when Hopkins began crying, that was a special moment.
That is somewhat gay.
But yes, it was a great performance.
And Hopkins did not beat Calzaghe at all. Get outta here with that kind of nonsense. :rolleyes:
Its not gay, I understood what he went through, Its amazing to finally have a guy like that get the credit he deserves. He got almost no credit for any of his fights except Trinidad and Tarver, not against Taylor, Not against Glen Johnson, not against RJJ, not against Calzaghe, not against Winky Wright. Finally he is showing people how special he really is, however I knew this all along its just nice for everybody to get a look, and I think it really touched a cord within him.
I was just taking the Mickey with the gay thing.
He did great, an ATG who keeps on surprising and delivering top level results. He did get a lot of credit for those fights he won though, dont need to turn him into a martyr. Only the Calzaghe loss was clearcut IMO, but all those other results Hops has got his credit. Even in those losses to Taylor, because many do question those results.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Bernard is the man. He exposed Kelly Pavlik. Inadvertantly, he also showed how good Calzaghe is. Credit due.
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WelshDevilRob
He needs to concentrate on the Middleweight division where he still has a big fight with Arthur Abraham waiting for him.
He has skills, size, power and is still the best Middleweight in the World.
I think with time and experience he will become tactically better and more seasoned and while this is a setback it is one he can comeback from and get better.
Nobody has an easy fight with Hopkins and only the very best beat him i.e Roy Jones and Joe Calzaghe.
I disagree. You are being too kind. Hopkins exposed him. He is an average fighter who was exposed. That's it.
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
I think Kelly has now found that plain power limits you and that if you can't get your punches off or create some openings with movement then you're useless.
Kelly needs to work on beiung quicker and shorter with his punches. He can learn a lot from this fight but the question remains WILL HE?
The door is open for Jermain Taylor to fight Hopkins a third time if he can look good vs Lacy MEANWHILE Jeff Lacy can come back BIG TIME and revive his career if he's able to be healthy and take out Taylor (that's a BIG BIG if though).
You have to love the depth at 168-175 Hopkins, Calzaghe, Jones, Dawson, Tarver, Cloud, Taylor, Bute, Kessler, Glenn Johnson.....it's great for boxing. Now if some big time fights can get made!
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Gloating here,just for a second though :-X.Just proud and happy for the man........I should go buy a lottery ticket right now........
At least on this call going into the fight.....Soothsayers & even Nostradamus ain't got shite on me ;D;D:cool:.....OK, I'm done.Humility reinstated.Carry on
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I was choked when Hopkins began crying, that was a special moment.
I wasn't choked, actually in a way I was but not with tears or anything haha
But it was BADASS when he stared down press row. DAYAM, that shit was awesome. Sorry, I hate to do the hindsight deal, but how many were calling this a pointless fight even when it was signed? No one expected this and to be honest either but it was obviously a possibility and I believed Hopkins would have tremendous success just wasn't sure if it was going to account for 5 rounds or 7 with about 6 of the 12 close.
I admit, I thought it was a pointless fight, but not one person can say they could have ever dreamed that a 43 year old Hopkins was eager to let his hands go like he did.. Most level headed fans predicted based on hopkins recent history.. Nard tucking his chin and winging a right, clinching headbutting and throwing rabbit punches. Wash, rinse and repeat!!! Thats how he fought Tarver, Wright and Calzaghe.. I was a fan of Hopkins all along but became a detractor as he cheated his way against Wright and was tasteless about the whole whiteboy thing with Calzaghe and was utilizing a real tiresome style, then he pulls this out letting his hands go and opening up with power shots, I mean the guy looked fantastic.. I mean that was a history making fight, the guy is ageless and is really making a run at being the best fighter of the last 25 years.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I won't throw this in guys faces too much about Pavlik because he proved me wrong, he has a great chin. However, Hopkins was absolutely amazing, I felt he beat Calzaghe, not every round like this fight, but I felt he won that fight in a close one, but one thing I noticed when I was watching Calzaghe fights then Pavlik fights is that Cazlaghe fights like he has chip on his shoudler, if you hit him, he will do everything in his power to dominate you. I didn't feel that from Pavlik in his second fight against Taylor, and I didn't think, coming in to the fight he would have that type of attitude which would be needed to wear Hopkins down like Calzaghe did.
Originally this is how I thought the fight would always go, but because of other people on here who are knowlegable I thought it could be a close fight that Pavlik could win because of his normally much higher punch count, but Hopkins took him to school. Once again Pavlik had a good style against Taylor, but Hopkins had a very bad style for Pavlik, I think Kelly would do a lot better against Calzaghe, Roy Jones Jr, etc, etc because they aren't slick like B-Hop.
All in all I am very proud of B-Hop he is one of my top 5 fav's ever, and I feel that this performance along with the rest of them puts him in the top 30 all time, beating Winky Wright, Trinidad, Calzaghe, Pavlik, Taylor, Tarver all at 40+ IMO is something nobody else will or could ever do. The reason I think he is so special is I thought Winky would dominate him, then Calzaghe, then I smartened up for his fight against Pavlik, and he did things I wouldn't have expected in my wildest dreams.
I wouldn't really draw that conclusion about Pavlik from this fight, because Hopkins IMO is not really a power punching guy, he wins by skill and strategy, not power. Pavlik's chin is at least decent, but not proven to be great. Sure Pavlik was clipped with lots of sharp punches, but not a whole lot of heavy power laden punches.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Im not devaluing what Hopkins did by anymeans, but most of Nards defining victories have been fighting guys that were out of the natural weight class.
Trinidad
Delahoya
Wright
Pavlik
I no one held a gun to the guys heads when they signed the contract but I wouldnt dash kelly to pieces over this seeing he jumped 10 pounds and is still the #1 middle in the world.. I feel that destructive aura might lose some luster like Cotto and guys will fight him differently, but I wouldnt say Kelly was exposed seeing that isint even his weight class.. lets see Nard get down to 160 again and then have a rematch, I feel the outcome would be a bit different.
Kudos to Nard regardless of the weight he has some great names on his resume and could very well make an argument for best fighter of this generation
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I won't throw this in guys faces too much about Pavlik because he proved me wrong, he has a great chin. However, Hopkins was absolutely amazing, I felt he beat Calzaghe, not every round like this fight, but I felt he won that fight in a close one, but one thing I noticed when I was watching Calzaghe fights then Pavlik fights is that Cazlaghe fights like he has chip on his shoudler, if you hit him, he will do everything in his power to dominate you. I didn't feel that from Pavlik in his second fight against Taylor, and I didn't think, coming in to the fight he would have that type of attitude which would be needed to wear Hopkins down like Calzaghe did.
Originally this is how I thought the fight would always go, but because of other people on here who are knowlegable I thought it could be a close fight that Pavlik could win because of his normally much higher punch count, but Hopkins took him to school. Once again Pavlik had a good style against Taylor, but Hopkins had a very bad style for Pavlik, I think Kelly would do a lot better against Calzaghe, Roy Jones Jr, etc, etc because they aren't slick like B-Hop.
All in all I am very proud of B-Hop he is one of my top 5 fav's ever, and I feel that this performance along with the rest of them puts him in the top 30 all time, beating Winky Wright, Trinidad, Calzaghe, Pavlik, Taylor, Tarver all at 40+ IMO is something nobody else will or could ever do. The reason I think he is so special is I thought Winky would dominate him, then Calzaghe, then I smartened up for his fight against Pavlik, and he did things I wouldn't have expected in my wildest dreams.
Well I'm glad you feel finally 'vindicated' the villification you suffered for believing in a Hopkins win was something none of us would have liked to have suffered.
I like how you contradict yourself in the very same paragraph stating that you knew the fight would go this way, until us lesser posters managed to discourage your genuis but then you say he did things beyond your wildest dreams.
I actually genuinely believe your wildest dreams probably do involve boxers as well seeing as you spend all your waking hours watching your 100 fights a week.
It's a privilage for us all to have such a boxing historian and expert on our humble little site :rolleyes:
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Im not devaluing what Hopkins did by anymeans, but most of Nards defining victories have been fighting guys that were out of the natural weight class.
Trinidad
Delahoya
Wright
Pavlik
I no one held a gun to the guys heads when they signed the contract but I wouldnt dash kelly to pieces over this seeing he jumped 10 pounds and is still the #1 middle in the world.. I feel that destructive aura might lose some luster like Cotto and guys will fight him differently, but I wouldnt say Kelly was exposed seeing that isint even his weight class.. lets see Nard get down to 160 again and then have a rematch, I feel the outcome would be a bit different.
Kudos to Nard regardless of the weight he has some great names on his resume and could very well make an argument for best fighter of this generation
You can't really criticise Bernard for Kelly being too small when it was clear in the ring that Pavlik was actually the bigger man. He made Hopkins look small in there. Both are huge middleweights.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Im not devaluing what Hopkins did by anymeans, but most of Nards defining victories have been fighting guys that were out of the natural weight class.
Trinidad
Delahoya
Wright
Pavlik
I no one held a gun to the guys heads when they signed the contract but I wouldnt dash kelly to pieces over this seeing he jumped 10 pounds and is still the #1 middle in the world.. I feel that destructive aura might lose some luster like Cotto and guys will fight him differently, but I wouldnt say Kelly was exposed seeing that isint even his weight class.. lets see Nard get down to 160 again and then have a rematch, I feel the outcome would be a bit different.
Kudos to Nard regardless of the weight he has some great names on his resume and could very well make an argument for best fighter of this generation
You can't really criticise Bernard for Kelly being too small when it was clear in the ring that Pavlik was actually the bigger man. He made Hopkins look small in there. Both are huge middleweights.
I agree to an extent but being physically bigger and effective and comfortable at the weight are different things
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Im not devaluing what Hopkins did by anymeans, but most of Nards defining victories have been fighting guys that were out of the natural weight class.
Trinidad
Delahoya
Wright
Pavlik
I no one held a gun to the guys heads when they signed the contract but I wouldnt dash kelly to pieces over this seeing he jumped 10 pounds and is still the #1 middle in the world.. I feel that destructive aura might lose some luster like Cotto and guys will fight him differently, but I wouldnt say Kelly was exposed seeing that isint even his weight class.. lets see Nard get down to 160 again and then have a rematch, I feel the outcome would be a bit different.
Kudos to Nard regardless of the weight he has some great names on his resume and could very well make an argument for best fighter of this generation
You can't really criticise Bernard for Kelly being too small when it was clear in the ring that Pavlik was actually the bigger man. He made Hopkins look small in there. Both are huge middleweights.
I agree to an extent but being physically bigger and effective and comfortable at the weight are different things
Yeah Bernard is smart he was always going to bring Kelly up to him rather than go down there. But this is nothing like Oscar and Tito imo who are naturally smaller guys. Naturally Kelly is bigger than B Hop.
Besides when you are giving up 17 years in age you can hardly be accused of having an advantage becuase of the fight being fought at a higher weight.
B Hop's win over Pavlik was immense possibly the greatest performance of his whole career.
To my knowledge no other fighter in the history of boxing has done what he did last night, win every round against the universally recognised champ, at over 40 years of age.
It's one of the greatest ever boxing acomplishments.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
You can't really criticise Bernard for Kelly being too small when it was clear in the ring that Pavlik was actually the bigger man. He made Hopkins look small in there. Both are huge middleweights.
I agree to an extent but being physically bigger and effective and comfortable at the weight are different things
Yeah Bernard is smart he was always going to bring Kelly up to him rather than go down there. But this is nothing like Oscar and Tito imo who are naturally smaller guys. Naturally Kelly is bigger than B Hop.
Besides when you are giving up 17 years in age you can hardly be accused of having an advantage becuase of the fight being fought at a higher weight.
B Hop's win over Pavlik was immense possibly the greatest performance of his whole career.
To my knowledge no other fighter in the history of boxing has done what he did last night, win every round against the universally recognised champ, at over 40 years of age.
It's one of the greatest ever boxing acomplishments.
Like I stated it was fantastic.. Im a fan of Pavlik but wouldnt say im a fanatic of his like I am with mayweather/ lacy/ holyfield but I agree it was an outstanding acheivment. but Im not throwing dirt on pavlik because I feel like he is a 160lb fighter and is more effective at that weight
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Except that Joe didn't beat him.
Please go away you petty moron Calzaghe won!
As for a plus he has his 160lb belts the rest is bad he looked slow, sloppy, ploddy and chinny.
Give me a break, not landing punches doesn't win fights.
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Re: Vindication is sweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
I agree to an extent but being physically bigger and effective and comfortable at the weight are different things
Yeah Bernard is smart he was always going to bring Kelly up to him rather than go down there. But this is nothing like Oscar and Tito imo who are naturally smaller guys. Naturally Kelly is bigger than B Hop.
Besides when you are giving up 17 years in age you can hardly be accused of having an advantage becuase of the fight being fought at a higher weight.
B Hop's win over Pavlik was immense possibly the greatest performance of his whole career.
To my knowledge no other fighter in the history of boxing has done what he did last night, win every round against the universally recognised champ, at over 40 years of age.
It's one of the greatest ever boxing acomplishments.
Like I stated it was fantastic.. Im a fan of Pavlik but wouldnt say im a fanatic of his like I am with mayweather/ lacy/ holyfield but I agree it was an outstanding acheivment. but Im not throwing dirt on pavlik because I feel like he is a 160lb fighter and is more effective at that weight
I'm still a big Pavlik fan, he's exciting and young enough to recover from this. B Hop himself lost early in his career, including his first pro fight.
I'm really pleased for Hopkins though, it's been a long time for people to really give him respect. He's one of the greatest of all time imo, almost 60 fights and only once could you say he was clearly beaten, and that on points. He's one of the true legends who would have been a great in any era.
Pavlik will hopefully bounce back and still be in some entertaining fights. I'm sure he will.
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Except that Joe didn't beat him.
Please go away you petty moron Calzaghe won!
As for a plus he has his 160lb belts the rest is bad he looked slow, sloppy, ploddy and chinny.
Give me a break, not landing punches doesn't win fights.
Not throwing them doesn't either.
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Re: Positives for Pavlik.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Markusdarkus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Except that Joe didn't beat him.
Please go away you petty moron Calzaghe won!
As for a plus he has his 160lb belts the rest is bad he looked slow, sloppy, ploddy and chinny.
Give me a break, not landing punches doesn't win fights.
Agreed Joe Calzaghe may of got credited with more punches on compubox, than he really did land IMO. But he still swamped Bernard Hopkins in activity, and took the fight to Bernard Hopkins and judges normally like the busier guy who takes the fight to his opponent.
I thought Bernard Hopkins won based on cleaner more effective punches. I did think alot of Joe Calzaghe's scoring punches wern't effective. But i only had Bernard Hopkins winning by 1 point based on the KD, so that means it was a very close fight and i had no problem with Joe Calzaghe winning. Although it would have been special had Bernard Hopkins had a win over Joe Calzaghe then Kelly Pavlik wow.
