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In his fight against Cotto they gave him no credit, even as he was whipping his ass...nothing. Now during the Williams fight they only bring him up to give more credit to Williams. What do they have against him?
I'm curious if anything will be mentioned about his up coming fight during the last two fights of the year, and how they are gonna diss him again.
Any thoughts??
Emanuel Steward was giving him plenty of credit, but honestly he was getting the shit boxed out of him in the first half of that fight, what was there to give him credit for? Walking through flush shots? As it went on they were giving him more credit. Also Paul Williams easily outboxed him, Margarito IMO got more credit than he deserved, and people are calling a fight where Williams won most of the rounds easily a close fihgt because Magarito came on strong at the end..., but far too late.
In the Cotto fight he was getting outboxed but as the tide was turning you dont think he deserved credit for that? He had a plan no matter how ugly it was or how people dont accept it he knew he could take the punch and finsih him later, that was a well executed plan he deserves credit for that. I just dont know why they hate on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Yeah Steward was giving him credit right through the fight from probably the second round.. He knew that he was going to keep coming on strong and had a good chance of beating Cotto.. But that's just Emanuel's intelligence when it comes to the ring.... There are some fighters that they like to lick the nuts of, win/lose or draw.. Then there are fighters that they don't really bother to mention much.. It's fighters like Winky and stuff that don't seem to get the credit they deserve in contrast to some other fighters, but I havn't really seen to much hating on Margarito... They'll have to pay him his dues if he wins a few more big fights..Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
This all seems best placed in the immediate post fight, a bit dated??HBO is at its best....cough..... when it tows the company line and hype fair contract, But...fans all know what they saw vs. Cotto.And is was not two seperate fights with Cotto opting to lose or a fluke...Tony merits boo-koo respect and the doubters line up :fight:
they are not exactly hating the guy. they just tend to talk more about cotto's skills, ability and flaw (in short excuses). Margarito already got credit from us fans(which is more meaningful) beating cintron and cotto in succession.. look where he is now on the list of every so called P4P list. Never mind the HBO commentators comments they are just there to talk and get pay.. that will never change the accomplishment of Margo.. they will look more stupid thats for sure by not giving him credit. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAIn the Cotto fight he was getting outboxed but as the tide was turning you dont think he deserved credit for that? He had a plan no matter how ugly it was or how people dont accept it he knew he could take the punch and finsih him later, that was a well executed plan he deserves credit for that. I just dont know why they hate on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
i guess because technically he is not that great, getting heavily outboxed by Williams and Cotto for most of their fight. His heart and durability are what makes him so dangerous, but HBO tend to appreciate skilled fighters more.
I don't think they were really hating on him. In the Cotto fight he was getting outclassed for the first half of the fight, so their commentary at that point was inline with what was happening in the fight. And, if you will recall, Steward was saying even then that he thought the pressure was going to start getting to Cotto. They gave him credit when he won. And the comments after the Williams fight didn't seem like much hating either. Williams had just fought on their show and was impressive, so of course they are going to hype him. They rightly pointed out that Margarito took a fight with Shane for half the money he could have had to fight Williams, and were using that as an example of how nobody wants to fight Williams and how he will have to create demand with the public to force the big names to fight him. I don't see that as hating.
I agree, I've heard Max Kellerman practically gush about AM a couple of times since July. I think Lampley has said some nice things too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClubberLang
I don't agree with the comments that Margarito was heavily outboxed by Williams. Williams beat Margarito, but I had the fight relatively close. I can't remember my scoring, and Williams won, but Margarito staggered Williams a few times and Williams never hurt Margarito. Also, Margarito looked much better than Phillips or Quintana (second fight) or that middleweight against Williams.
A lot of people don't give Margarito the credit he deserves for destroying Cotto. The argument usually goes like this: Cotto outboxed Margarito for the first half of the fight and had vastly superior skills etc. But, a championship boxing match is twelve rounds! Who cares if Cotto beat him for five? Margarito crushed Cotto in eleven.
Bute and Andrade is a good comparison because Bute was vastly superior to Andrade technically, but Andrade was resilient. At least Bute can claim that he outboxed Andrade for 11 rounds and almost made it to the finish line. Cotto wilted much earlier.
In the end, Margarito doesn't get credit because he lacks technicical skills and speed. However, Margarito makes up for it in stamina, heart, chin, and guts.
i think i has tony vs paul 7-5 for paul or 8-4 i dont remember. but they always bring up his loss to Paul. though i would love to see Paul beat him again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
If they do hate on him it's probably because he's not going to be making them any money.
He doesn't speak English and is still a relative nobody to everyone but the hardcore boxing fans..Plus he beats the phuck outta guys who do make them money ;D
Both Emanuel Steward, and Kellerman consistently said that Margarito was going to turn it up as the fight went on, and that Cotto really had to maintain his pace in order to win, but that it would be very difficult because of the pressure that Margarito was putting on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAIn the Cotto fight he was getting outboxed but as the tide was turning you dont think he deserved credit for that? He had a plan no matter how ugly it was or how people dont accept it he knew he could take the punch and finsih him later, that was a well executed plan he deserves credit for that. I just dont know why they hate on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Once again its very hard to give credit to a guy who is being hit at the other's will. Very often fights have looked like they might get close or turn the other direction like Cotto-Margarito did, but more often than not it seems they don't.
He's really only beaten Cotto who has proven themselves at the top level. I think he does beat several other guys at the top, but there are a few guys including Paul Williams that beat him more often than not.
It's like Setanta over here, they do it with football, if any of the big four (Liverpool, Chelsea, Man United or Arsenal) teams draw or lose they make it out to be a poor performance by them without giving credit to 'lesser mid/lower-table team'
Cotto looked very good for the first half of that fight and if the HBO team were (like me) saying "this is an amazing performance, Cotto is in a different league" and then Margo comes out and punishes Cotto like that you might feel like a bit of a nugget for saying what you did. Specially if your considered an 'expert'
Margarito vs Williams was more like 8-4 or 9-3... and He would beat Margarito again, if he can make Welterweight effectively. He didn't allow Margarito to start fast, because Paul was moved too quickly, just like Pavlik Margarito needs you to be right there in order for him to throw punches, he isn't good at moving and punching at the same time, especialyl when angels are giving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Also destroying a person is what Lewis did to Tyson, what Mayweather did to Gatti. What Calzaghe did to Lacy, what Hopkins did to Trinidad. Margarito stopped Cotto, but he didn't destroy him, it wasn't one sided in his favor until the 11th round. Also Andrade isn't even close to the same monster than Margarito is, while Andrade has a tough chin, he has been dropped recently, and he doesn't walk through punches the same way Margarito does. He kept coming against Kessler, but his punch rate went down, while Tony's speeds up, and the one thing that Margarito has that many pressure fighters don't have and that is he is avery good inside fighter, when he gets his opponent on the ropes he throws great combinations that are hard to predict, and he shortens up his punches.
IMO I think people are making too much of what Margarito did to Cotto, the style matchup favored MArgarito. Ricardo Torres almost stopped Cotto, you can say what you want about how Cotto came back, but in overall besides the 11th round of Cotto-Margarito, Miguel never looked as bad as he did for 2 or 3 rounds against Torres.
Man,I just don't know what fight you were watching .How about a little credit where credit is due?In no way was the Tony/Williams fight a 7 point edge for Williams.Williams was a boxing fool and started fast but Tony is a slow starter from the get go,even in the Cotto fight it was a jabbing contest in the 1st round.I had Williams up by 2 points in a very tight call with Tony coming on strong in the 2nd half and being the far better hitter and forcing the tempo.As for the Cotto fight...it amazes me how many act as if a magical switch was flipped in the late rounds and Cotto just fell apart by his own choosing.....While Cotto was landing the 'ohhh's & ahhh's' punches upstairs,his body attack had been essentially shut down and Margarito was having a major impact on Cottos own body as early as the 2nd round...consistantly and with a big accumliative effect?It was as a graduale and increasing 'destruction' of an undefeated ,improving in quality and championship calibur fighter as Ive seen in years...as opposed to a Tyson vs. Lewis and Gatti vs. Mayweather....one was shot to pieces and the other was being led to the guilotine by one of the top p4p guys around.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethMargarito vs Williams was more like 8-4 or 9-3... and He would beat Margarito again, if he can make Welterweight effectively. He didn't allow Margarito to start fast, because Paul was moved too quickly, just like Pavlik Margarito needs you to be right there in order for him to throw punches, he isn't good at moving and punching at the same time, especialyl when angels are giving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Also destroying a person is what Lewis did to Tyson, what Mayweather did to Gatti. What Calzaghe did to Lacy, what Hopkins did to Trinidad. Margarito stopped Cotto, but he didn't destroy him, it wasn't one sided in his favor until the 11th round. Also Andrade isn't even close to the same monster than Margarito is, while Andrade has a tough chin, he has been dropped recently, and he doesn't walk through punches the same way Margarito does. He kept coming against Kessler, but his punch rate went down, while Tony's speeds up, and the one thing that Margarito has that many pressure fighters don't have and that is he is avery good inside fighter, when he gets his opponent on the ropes he throws great combinations that are hard to predict, and he shortens up his punches.
IMO I think people are making too much of what Margarito did to Cotto, the style matchup favored MArgarito. Ricardo Torres almost stopped Cotto, you can say what you want about how Cotto came back, but in overall besides the 11th round of Cotto-Margarito, Miguel never looked as bad as he did for 2 or 3 rounds against Torres.
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Originally Posted by antimoronthey are not exactly hating the guy. they just tend to talk more about cotto's skills, ability and flaw (in short excuses). Margarito already got credit from us fans(which is more meaningful) beating cintron and cotto in succession.. look where he is now on the list of every so called P4P list. Never mind the HBO commentators comments they are just there to talk and get pay.. that will never change the accomplishment of Margo.. they will look more stupid thats for sure by not giving him credit. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAIn the Cotto fight he was getting outboxed but as the tide was turning you dont think he deserved credit for that? He had a plan no matter how ugly it was or how people dont accept it he knew he could take the punch and finsih him later, that was a well executed plan he deserves credit for that. I just dont know why they hate on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Lampley & co are just cheerleaders for HBO fighters. Tony Margarito isnt an HBO fighter its that simple;D
Margarito wasn't giving him the body, and Margarito was landing to the body, but he wasn't landing anythign like the punch that stopped Cintron. It wasn't a destruction regardless of what you say, a fight like Foreman-Frazier was a destruction, Chavez-Rosario, Mayweather-Corrales, Roy Jones Jr vs 90% of his opponents, Calzaghe-Lacy, Pacquiao-Barrera I, the list goes on, but this wasn't one of them. A destruction means that you dominate the entire fight and destroy your opponent, its not getting your ass kicked for 6 rounds, but having the chin to walk through it. Of course Margarito was landing punches, but IMO still the most important fact was that Cotto couldn't breathe through his nose because it was clearly broken. Until later on he wasn't effected by any of Margarito shots anywhere near the way he was against Judah, Corley, and Torres. Margarito did land to the body, but they weren't his hardest body shots, and Mosley also went to the body against Cotto to no avail. I've seen it plenty of times where a fighter, hasn't taken all that much damage, but over exert themselves and suddenly take a turn for the worse, and Margarito did to put amazing pressure on Cotto, it wasn't super fast, and he didn't cut off the ring, but Cotto doesn't relax while he is moving, and that really makes it that much more tiring for him to move around. The body shots didn't help, but once again Cotto was landing far better punches over the first half of the fight, and I am aware that Margarito landed as well, but it was Margarito who was frustrated in the first half of the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'NawlinsMan,I just don't know what fight you were watching .How about a little credit where credit is due?In no way was the Tony/Williams fight a 7 point edge for Williams.Williams was a boxing fool and started fast but Tony is a slow starter from the get go,even in the Cotto fight it was a jabbing contest in the 1st round.I had Williams up by 2 points in a very tight call with Tony coming on strong in the 2nd half and being the far better hitter and forcing the tempo.As for the Cotto fight...it amazes me how many act as if a magical switch was flipped in the late rounds and Cotto just fell apart by his own choosing.....While Cotto was landing the 'ohhh's & ahhh's' punches upstairs,his body attack had been essentially shut down and Margarito was having a major impact on Cottos own body as early as the 2nd round...consistantly and with a big accumliative effect?It was as a graduale and increasing 'destruction' of an undefeated ,improving in quality and championship calibur fighter as Ive seen in years...as opposed to a Tyson vs. Lewis and Gatti vs. Mayweather....one was shot to pieces and the other was being led to the guilotine by one of the top p4p guys around.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethMargarito vs Williams was more like 8-4 or 9-3... and He would beat Margarito again, if he can make Welterweight effectively. He didn't allow Margarito to start fast, because Paul was moved too quickly, just like Pavlik Margarito needs you to be right there in order for him to throw punches, he isn't good at moving and punching at the same time, especialyl when angels are giving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Also destroying a person is what Lewis did to Tyson, what Mayweather did to Gatti. What Calzaghe did to Lacy, what Hopkins did to Trinidad. Margarito stopped Cotto, but he didn't destroy him, it wasn't one sided in his favor until the 11th round. Also Andrade isn't even close to the same monster than Margarito is, while Andrade has a tough chin, he has been dropped recently, and he doesn't walk through punches the same way Margarito does. He kept coming against Kessler, but his punch rate went down, while Tony's speeds up, and the one thing that Margarito has that many pressure fighters don't have and that is he is avery good inside fighter, when he gets his opponent on the ropes he throws great combinations that are hard to predict, and he shortens up his punches.
IMO I think people are making too much of what Margarito did to Cotto, the style matchup favored MArgarito. Ricardo Torres almost stopped Cotto, you can say what you want about how Cotto came back, but in overall besides the 11th round of Cotto-Margarito, Miguel never looked as bad as he did for 2 or 3 rounds against Torres.
ANd maybe you should watch the Margarito-Williams fight again, Margarito didn't win most of the second half of the fight it was relatively even, but the first half Paul was beating him with ease, same with Cotto, the only difference is WIlliams could hang on to the lead. Clottey was also easily winning rounds against Margarito until his hands began to hurt, because he clearly stopped throwing punches in situations he was earlier.
Williams beat margarito 10 rounds to 2. The only rounds i gave margarito were 10 and 11. It was still a good fight but margarito just couldn't hit williams with any regularity.
You could see that Cotto was landing the more flashy shots but Marg had his number from round 2 when he busted up Cottos nose, the way both fighters walked back to their corners said all you need to know, it was'nt a total beat down but come on just look at both fighters after the fight, no comparison one xxxked up the other hardly a mark on him. It don't matter who is considerd the more skillfull it's the result that counts, heart, desire and a rock hard noggin can beat skills sometimes, thats the way it is and always will be. Cant wait for the rematch and TBH I think Marg does it just the same, what can Cotto do diffrent if he goes toe to toe he gets busted up, if he boxes like last time he gets busted up, who knows maybe swallowing blood for most of the fight did it, we will find out next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'NawlinsMan,I just don't know what fight you were watching .How about a little credit where credit is due?In no way was the Tony/Williams fight a 7 point edge for Williams.Williams was a boxing fool and started fast but Tony is a slow starter from the get go,even in the Cotto fight it was a jabbing contest in the 1st round.I had Williams up by 2 points in a very tight call with Tony coming on strong in the 2nd half and being the far better hitter and forcing the tempo.As for the Cotto fight...it amazes me how many act as if a magical switch was flipped in the late rounds and Cotto just fell apart by his own choosing.....While Cotto was landing the 'ohhh's & ahhh's' punches upstairs,his body attack had been essentially shut down and Margarito was having a major impact on Cottos own body as early as the 2nd round...consistantly and with a big accumliative effect?It was as a graduale and increasing 'destruction' of an undefeated ,improving in quality and championship calibur fighter as Ive seen in years...as opposed to a Tyson vs. Lewis and Gatti vs. Mayweather....one was shot to pieces and the other was being led to the guilotine by one of the top p4p guys around.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethMargarito vs Williams was more like 8-4 or 9-3... and He would beat Margarito again, if he can make Welterweight effectively. He didn't allow Margarito to start fast, because Paul was moved too quickly, just like Pavlik Margarito needs you to be right there in order for him to throw punches, he isn't good at moving and punching at the same time, especialyl when angels are giving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Also destroying a person is what Lewis did to Tyson, what Mayweather did to Gatti. What Calzaghe did to Lacy, what Hopkins did to Trinidad. Margarito stopped Cotto, but he didn't destroy him, it wasn't one sided in his favor until the 11th round. Also Andrade isn't even close to the same monster than Margarito is, while Andrade has a tough chin, he has been dropped recently, and he doesn't walk through punches the same way Margarito does. He kept coming against Kessler, but his punch rate went down, while Tony's speeds up, and the one thing that Margarito has that many pressure fighters don't have and that is he is avery good inside fighter, when he gets his opponent on the ropes he throws great combinations that are hard to predict, and he shortens up his punches.
IMO I think people are making too much of what Margarito did to Cotto, the style matchup favored MArgarito. Ricardo Torres almost stopped Cotto, you can say what you want about how Cotto came back, but in overall besides the 11th round of Cotto-Margarito, Miguel never looked as bad as he did for 2 or 3 rounds against Torres.
Look at the Lovermore N'Dou vs Cotto fight, Cotto's face looked busted up there as well, look at his face in the Judah fight. Cotto isn't as tough physically or mentally as Margarito. Some guys faces can look the same through any amount of punishment, while other guys look like their faces have rearranged from far less punishment. You could definitely tell that Cotto was having problems with the pressure from round 2 on, but it wasn't his head that was snapping back 10+ times a round.
Obviously Margarito won the fight, but I am saying it wasn't a destruction. People are getting way too far fetched.
Taeth,Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I disagree. Cotto gets more credit in his loss against Margarito than most fighters do that are forced to submit after being viciously knocked down three times. Conversely, Margarito doesn't get as much credit as most fighters do that beat a top ten p4p fighter in their prime and on their way up the ladder.
If your definition of destruction is a domination from round one that ends in a catastrophic KO, then you are right, it wasn't a destruction. But, Margarito beat Cotto up. Plain and simple. Fights last 12 rounds for a reason.
Also, the official scorecards don't bear out your opinion of the Margarito v. Williams fight. They were: 115-113, 115-113, and 116-112. In my books, that is a close fight. Again, I give Paul credit where it is due (this post isn't about Paul). He beat Margarito. I still say I haven't seen a closer fight against Williams. Moreover, recently Williams has been knocking people out left and right, but he never even hurt Margarito, which is testament to Margarito.
And just to make it interesting, I'll come out right now and say it, as much as I like Mosley, I fully expect Margarito to steam roll through him in January as well.
I don't think they hate on him. The biggest thing i've heard was Max Kellerman after the Williams fight saying how Margarito took half the money to fight Mosley he would get from Williams.
First Max is a tool in my opinion. He's got some knowledge but he seems to have an agenda in his interviews and post fight comments.
Second, Mosley is a better name, and on the way out in his career. If he is confident in winning you take Mosley now, and let the Williams fight build cause he's young and gonna be around a long time.
Scorecards are bullshit I don't value what judges say half the time, look at some of the scorecards lately. MAB-JMM: 116-111, 116-111, 118-109?!!! WTF, did they even see the fight? PBF-ODLH: 113-115, 115-113, 116-112??? Only the 116-112 made any sense, Mayweather won 8 or 9 of the rounds. In Joe CAlzaghe-Bernard Hopkins: one of the judges had Calzaghe up by 5 rounds with the knockdown, wtf was he watching. Or Hopkins-Wright: 116-112,117-111,117-111 wtf was going on here?Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratTaeth,Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I disagree. Cotto gets more credit in his loss against Margarito than most fighters do that are forced to submit after being viciously knocked down three times. Conversely, Margarito doesn't get as much credit as most fighters do that beat a top ten p4p fighter in their prime and on their way up the ladder.
If your definition of destruction is a domination from round one that ends in a catastrophic KO, then you are right, it wasn't a destruction. But, Margarito beat Cotto up. Plain and simple. Fights last 12 rounds for a reason.
Also, the official scorecards don't bear out your opinion of the Margarito v. Williams fight. They were: 115-113, 115-113, and 116-112. In my books, that is a close fight. Again, I give Paul credit where it is due (this post isn't about Paul). He beat Margarito. I still say I haven't seen a closer fight against Williams. Moreover, recently Williams has been knocking people out left and right, but he never even hurt Margarito, which is testament to Margarito.
And just to make it interesting, I'll come out right now and say it, as much as I like Mosley, I fully expect Margarito to steam roll through him in January as well.
Margarito-Williams was competitive for the second half of the fight, but it wasn't close fight because Williams got out to a huge lead, and he had to slow down a lot before Margarito could getting his offense going. Also we already knew Margarito had a good chin that doens't change anything that Williams who isn't a heavy puncher couldn't hurt him, Cotto and especially Cintron hit way harder than WIlliams. Williams also got outboxed by Carlos Quintana in their first fight, he caught Quintana flush the second time around, and to his credit stopped him, but Williams is easy to hit, and Margarito couldn't land for most of the fight, because he is only accurate on the inside.
As for Cotto-Margarito, I give him all the credit in the world for walking through what he did against Cintron and Cotto, and I don't see how me saying that Cotto clearly outboxed him the first 6 rounds changes that.
And he didn't knock Cotto visciously down, COtto took a knee both times, the second time Margarito hadn't even landed a shot and Cotto went down. What Margarito did nobody else had been able to do, that was stop Cotto, but other guys had badly hurt Cotto, other guys have made Cotto fight off his back foot all night (Abdullaev, and Lovemore Ndou) Ndou and Mosley took Cotto's punches just as easily as Margarito, but he threw more punches, did more damage, and proved himself. I just think people looked too much into this fight, I thought Cotto would win going in, but I knew stylewise he was in for a tough fight, that he couldn't hurt Margarito, and I wasn't sure how he defense would hold up. I give credit to Margarito for breaking somebodies will who I didn't think he would, but the win doesn't make him a better fighter than Cotto, and doesn't make him a great fighter. Mayorga beat up Vernon Forrest, who was way better than him, because of the matchup. IMO Jermain Taylor is better than Pavlik, but lost because of the matchup, and I think Pavlik who is a good fighter like Margarito maybe even better, gets too much credit for what he did against Taylor.
As for Margarito-Mosley, Mosley has the wrong mentality and is there for the picking, but I highly doubt Margarito will stop him, and I think it will be an uglier fight than most think. Mosley and Vargas was, Mosley and Mayorga was, its hard to get offense going against Mosley who fights so wierd against bigger guys.
But Williams won't be a welterweight for very long, He's too big to stay at the weight forever, IMO Margarito is waiting for Williams to have to kill himself to make weight or move up, and be out of Tony's division. I don't like some things that Max does, but he wants the best fights, that make the most sense and isn't afraid to call fighters out who aren't taking them.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
I love the fact that he brought up Dawson with Calzaghe, Why the fuck should have Joe been fighting Roy JOnes Jr? It was a bullshit fight, and why won't he fight Bernard Hopkins again? Or Glen Johnson who has been at the top of the LHW heap for the past 5 years?
Margarito is complaining that Mayweather isn't facing him, when Mayweather was chasing the linear welterweight belt for more money against Baldomir who made a name for himself, and now Margarito won't fight the only WW who he has lost to in years. Or Clottey who was doing very well before he hurt his hands. Mayweather fought Castillo the second time to prove himself, but people ask why guys like Margarito aren't liked, because they complain all the time, then they don't take risks unless it falls into their lap, or they have no other choice, but as soon as they are at the top they are the same as everyone else.
Do you really think that fighters are afraid of one another? Just because someone doesn't fight one guy in their next fight doesn't mean they won't fight them. Also usually the handlers make the fights, not the fighters. Most fighters will fight whomever.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethBut Williams won't be a welterweight for very long, He's too big to stay at the weight forever, IMO Margarito is waiting for Williams to have to kill himself to make weight or move up, and be out of Tony's division. I don't like some things that Max does, but he wants the best fights, that make the most sense and isn't afraid to call fighters out who aren't taking them.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
I love the fact that he brought up Dawson with Calzaghe, Why the fuck should have Joe been fighting Roy JOnes Jr? It was a bullshit fight, and why won't he fight Bernard Hopkins again? Or Glen Johnson who has been at the top of the LHW heap for the past 5 years?
Margarito is complaining that Mayweather isn't facing him, when Mayweather was chasing the linear welterweight belt for more money against Baldomir who made a name for himself, and now Margarito won't fight the only WW who he has lost to in years. Or Clottey who was doing very well before he hurt his hands. Mayweather fought Castillo the second time to prove himself, but people ask why guys like Margarito aren't liked, because they complain all the time, then they don't take risks unless it falls into their lap, or they have no other choice, but as soon as they are at the top they are the same as everyone else.
I don't think that Margarito is ducking anyone because he takes another fight before a guy. Especially when his promoter has publicly stated a number of times he doesn't do immediate rematches. Also after the Williams fight Max read the statement that Arum doesn't want to deal with Williams handlers. I wouldn't blame that on Margarito.
I want Calzaghe to fight Johnson also. I do think Dawson is a big threat but Johnson deserves it and will give anyone a tough fight. I think Joe takes it though.
Cotto is a fighter who had never tasted defeat, bullys his opponents, outclasses them, outboxes them and pretty much rearranges them (MAglinaggi) he had been getting really cocky in the ring as of late against Gomez etc. to actually make that guy take a knee now once but twice is a good case for destroying them, maybe not the body but the spirit.
Cotto took a beating for however many rounds some people would say 2 rounds other would say from round 6 on that kinda beating stays with a boxer, Cotto's tough but he met his superior in heart, guts, stamina, and determination. It was very clear in between some of the rounds that cotto looked maybe not scarred but he had the look of WTF did i just run into. i support cotto all the way but he got owned ive said it before and ill say it again. If there a rematch i would not be surprised to see some mental effects from the first fight. He knows MArgo has his number.
You shouldn't do immediate rematches if you win a fight or if you get knocked out, but that wasn't the case, also Margarito has had 4 fights since then, Paul Williams is the guy who deserves the fight with him.
Mayweather was likely planning to fight Margarito if he won significant fights, but then he lost to P. Williams, and it seemed like the media in general was stressing Mayweather out so he quit the sport, but there are a lot of hypocrites who give Mayweather a hard time because he didn't go out and face Margarito who nobody knew. But people know to some degree who Paul Williams, Margarito would have made 2 times the amount of money he will against Shane, and lets face it outside boxing fans people know Mosley as name they heard somewhere, but more people will give Margarito way more credibility for avenging his lose to Paul Williams if he were able to. I think Arum is likely making excuses which he has done in the past because he knows Paul Williams is likely to win a rematch. On the note of rematches he gave Cintron a rematch. The one guy with recognizable name that he has beaten recently, and posed no threat at all. He knew what cintron was made of after the first fight ,adn that he could deal with it.
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Originally Posted by OnixAA
Once again people throw around words like owned way too loosely.
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Originally Posted by TaethQuote:
Originally Posted by OnixAA
Once again people throw around words like owned way too loosely.
so what would you call it then? a fight with mosley gives margo exactly what he needs more recognition to go after big fights. but my original point what would you call what margo did to cotto? just winning?
I think that Margarito facing PBF was a similar situation. Hardcore fans were calling for that fight and to the average viewer Baldomir had more recognition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I don't think Margarito is scared of Williams. Maybe his handlers are, but I don't think he is. He probably feels he would have stopped him if he had a few more rounds or if he started faster.
Unfortunately as Don King says "you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate"
For anyone to reach the conclusion or infer that Margarito is/was fearful of Williams is off the mark.That fight was a close fight,period and when it was all said and done,Williams won.Tony does not wait people out or hide under his bed,that B.S is tired...funny really.....the kneejerk reaction last week when the same conclusion was hinted at when The Mosley negotiations hit some haggling points.It is speculation as to what the actual behind the scenes arm twisting and impasse points are when all is said and done and has very little to do with the fighters themselves in many cases with few exceptions.Margarito has fought the vast majority of his career as "the other guy" and has taken what is at his feet,earned every danm ounce of respect he receives and has finally earned a place at the top,to call some shots and is now banking a huge very well known Shane Mosley in combination with Margaritos own new found recognition off A solid and convincing victory over a quality undefeated champion in Cotto,all leading to a huge rematch nextyear.....one frankly I see not a lot changing and the result remaining the same......but if all the cards line up right,it is happening.
Strong Post.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAA
To get back to the point of the post: did HBO treat PBF and Dawson the same way they have treated Margarito?
- I can't recall: did Kellerman ask PBF about fighting Margarito after he beat Oscar or after he beat Hatton? I know at the time Margarito was calling PBF out.
- Did Kellerman ask BCD after he beat Tarver about giving Glen Johnson a rematch because BCD nearly lost to Johnson? If anyone is deserving of a rematch, it is Glen Johnson of course.
1. Larry Merchant interviewed PBF. I don't recall other than PBF putting his arm around Larry and avoiding any questions. He kind of took over the interview.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratStrong Post.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAA
To get back to the point of the post: did HBO treat PBF and Dawson the same way they have treated Margarito?
- I can't recall: did Kellerman ask PBF about fighting Margarito after he beat Oscar or after he beat Hatton? I know at the time Margarito was calling PBF out.
- Did Kellerman ask BCD after he beat Tarver about giving Glen Johnson a rematch because BCD nearly lost to Johnson? If anyone is deserving of a rematch, it is Glen Johnson of course.
2. I don't remember that question. I agree about Glen Johnson. Same as I feel Tarver should have. They went 1-1 then Tarver won't do it again.
The answer to HBO hating on Margo is a combination of simple facts:
Margo Speeky no english
Margo has 5 loses on his record that nobody (general public) witnessed, and most were not championship fights.
Margo is a shitty boxer.
I love watching the guy fight. He's one of my favorite fighters, always will be. But he is hard to market.
A close fight where Margarito's will won out. This wasn't one sided route by any means, Cotto was right in it until the 11th round, and should have been quite ahead on the scorecards. Owned, Dominated, destroyed. That is the difference between Chavez-Meldrick Taylor I, and Chavez-Meldrick Taylor II, one of those was the destruction of a fighter, the other was a fight where the superior boxer was clearly outboxing the brawler, but in the end accumulation caught up with them. Of course Meldrick Taylor outboxed Chavez for a lot more rounds, but both him and Cotto were comprehensively outboxing their respective opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by TaethQuote:
Originally Posted by OnixAA
Once again people throw around words like owned way too loosely.
so what would you call it then? a fight with mosley gives margo exactly what he needs more recognition to go after big fights. but my original point what would you call what margo did to cotto? just winning?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratStrong Post.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAA
To get back to the point of the post: did HBO treat PBF and Dawson the same way they have treated Margarito?
- I can't recall: did Kellerman ask PBF about fighting Margarito after he beat Oscar or after he beat Hatton? I know at the time Margarito was calling PBF out.
- Did Kellerman ask BCD after he beat Tarver about giving Glen Johnson a rematch because BCD nearly lost to Johnson? If anyone is deserving of a rematch, it is Glen Johnson of course.
Chad Dawson vs Tarver wasn't on HBO it was a showcase or whatever the one with Al is. So no he wasn't asked that by Kellerman because he wans't there.
Also it was Larry Merchant that talked to Mayweather, Kellerman was way up high with Lennox Lewis, and he was the only one that actually saw the fight for how it was.
Also Malignaggi to the post above wasn't destroyed by Cotto, it was a close fight, and Paulie fought very well for most of the later rounds.
You are right, I forgot that it was on Showcase. You can't really compare the treatment.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratStrong Post.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAA
To get back to the point of the post: did HBO treat PBF and Dawson the same way they have treated Margarito?
- I can't recall: did Kellerman ask PBF about fighting Margarito after he beat Oscar or after he beat Hatton? I know at the time Margarito was calling PBF out.
- Did Kellerman ask BCD after he beat Tarver about giving Glen Johnson a rematch because BCD nearly lost to Johnson? If anyone is deserving of a rematch, it is Glen Johnson of course.
Chad Dawson vs Tarver wasn't on HBO it was a showcase or whatever the one with Al is. So no he wasn't asked that by Kellerman because he wans't there.
Also it was Larry Merchant that talked to Mayweather, Kellerman was way up high with Lennox Lewis, and he was the only one that actually saw the fight for how it was.
Also Malignaggi to the post above wasn't destroyed by Cotto, it was a close fight, and Paulie fought very well for most of the later rounds.
Two of his five loses were for championship fights, that is 40% of his loses, and both were televised and known by people who have watched Margarito to any extent.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFolds
Never said Cotto dominated Maglinaggi, I said he rearranges them, meaning he rearranged his face...if you dont think that what Cotto did to Maglinaggi was destruction than you must be get into tough man contests or have some kind of Massochist streaks because that was a beating, then again you think Cotto was into the fight with Margo till the 11th. He was responding and kept going until the 11th but he was getting punished from the 8 or 9th on.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratStrong Post.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAA
To get back to the point of the post: did HBO treat PBF and Dawson the same way they have treated Margarito?
- I can't recall: did Kellerman ask PBF about fighting Margarito after he beat Oscar or after he beat Hatton? I know at the time Margarito was calling PBF out.
- Did Kellerman ask BCD after he beat Tarver about giving Glen Johnson a rematch because BCD nearly lost to Johnson? If anyone is deserving of a rematch, it is Glen Johnson of course.
Chad Dawson vs Tarver wasn't on HBO it was a showcase or whatever the one with Al is. So no he wasn't asked that by Kellerman because he wans't there.
Also it was Larry Merchant that talked to Mayweather, Kellerman was way up high with Lennox Lewis, and he was the only one that actually saw the fight for how it was.
Also Malignaggi to the post above wasn't destroyed by Cotto, it was a close fight, and Paulie fought very well for most of the later rounds.