Boxing and brain damage.

I am reading this book by a neurologist, and he is saying that boxing absolutely a no-no in terms of what it does to your brain... obviously. However I would like to raise the fact that boxing takes it biggest toll on the brain long after you quit doing it. It does lasting damage to the hippocampus and cerebellum which is why it is likely to cause Alzheimers and Parkinsons.

So I am bringing this up because people criticized in particular Freddie Roach for what he has said about the health of certain fighters, but I think while reading this book that I am not going to continue sparring for one, but also guys like Hopkins might be wise to leave the sport asap. Regardless of how hard it is to hit Hopkins he has been fighting pro for 20 years, most of it at the top level of the sport where guys hit harder, and do more damage. I am really worried for guys I admire like him, Holyfield, and other guys like Margarito who are really going to suffer in their late 40's and 50's. All pro fighters suffer multiple times the brain damage an average person does, and even guys like Leonard who have escaped rather unscathed have far less intellectual capacity than they would have, had they not put on a pair of gloves. I feel these are important things for people in boxing to know, and it seems avoided way too much.

No shit Sherlock. Would you mind watching boxing with bigger gloves and headgear though? Kind of takes away from the heritage of the sport. Just like joining the military may get you shot, nobody is forcing these guys in the ring....well I don't know about some of these promoters....:-\

Everything almost, can cause brain damage. You play baseball,you probably tak a brush back pitch to the head. You play football,almost all of your life long facilities are in trouble. Medieval combat,or the martial arts,you'll take one to the noggin. Driving your car can involve a stand of trees or another car tomorrow.
Lifes to short to spend it under your covers

Dang. I thought this thread was going for the obvious......Taeth has brain damage and it is affecting his posting about boxing.

Even heading a football can cause some brain damage. I beleive ex England player Jeff Astle`s early death was brought on through brain damage from heading the ball. Gary Lineker also used to avoid heading the ball as much as possible in training for the same reason.

Boxers know the risks. While its a shame for any fighter to lose control of their faculties, fans become less sympathetic if they fight on until they are well past it and bring on permanent damage themselves.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I am reading this book by a neurologist, and he is saying that boxing absolutely a no-no in terms of what it does to your brain... obviously. However I would like to raise the fact that boxing takes it biggest toll on the brain long after you quit doing it. It does lasting damage to the hippocampus and cerebellum which is why it is likely to cause Alzheimers and Parkinsons.

So I am bringing this up because people criticized in particular Freddie Roach for what he has said about the health of certain fighters, but I think while reading this book that I am not going to continue sparring for one, but also guys like Hopkins might be wise to leave the sport asap. Regardless of how hard it is to hit Hopkins he has been fighting pro for 20 years, most of it at the top level of the sport where guys hit harder, and do more damage. I am really worried for guys I admire like him, Holyfield, and other guys like Margarito who are really going to suffer in their late 40's and 50's. All pro fighters suffer multiple times the brain damage an average person does, and even guys like Leonard who have escaped rather unscathed have far less intellectual capacity than they would have, had they not put on a pair of gloves. I feel these are important things for people in boxing to know, and it seems avoided way too much.

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Normally, the symptoms of pugisitica dementia show up about 12-16 years after contacting the affliction which is why it is so horiffic.

Normally, one trauma will not do it. An accumulation will, however. And sparring is one of the primaru causes of brain damage with boxers.

Football, soccer, hockey, none of them compare to the head trauma experienced in boxing. I use to try to rationalize it as well, but you can't compare other sports to boxing. I love boxing, and I am not trying to change the sport, but just to make people actually pay heed to Freddie Roach, as a person who loves to learn, I can't think of anything that is worth killing my brain for, its what makes us human.

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Originally Posted by holmcall

Normally, one trauma will not do it. An accumulation will, however. And sparring is one of the primaru causes of brain damage with boxers.

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Actually in studies one punch in a pro fight is the equivalent of about 16 or 17 in sparring and amateur fighting. In fact because sparring and amateurs use a different type of glove, and the fighters don't tend to sit down on their punches in fact they don't do the same permanent damage that punches that you receive in a pro fight. Sparring and amateur fighting generally only causes swelling which will heal in about 3 months, but pro fights will actually cause tears in the brain that are permanent damage.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by holmcall

Normally, one trauma will not do it. An accumulation will, however. And sparring is one of the primaru causes of brain damage with boxers.

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Actually in studies one punch in a pro fight is the equivalent of about 16 or 17 in sparring and amateur fighting. In fact because sparring and amateurs use a different type of glove, and the fighters don't tend to sit down on their punches in fact they don't do the same permanent damage that punches that you receive in a pro fight. Sparring and amateur fighting generally only causes swelling which will heal in about 3 months, but pro fights will actually cause tears in the brain that are permanent damage.

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Maybe;maybe not. I know too many guys who have told me their condition was caused by too many rounds in the Gym. I do, however, agree, that punches in a pro fight are the heaviest. Also, the number of amature fights can play into this. But for me, it's all about accumulative punishment over a period of time. Bowe was well on the way and then Golata super-charged his journey. Bobby Chacon's last 7 fights were against stiff competition and he won each pretty easily as I recall. Then, several years later, the dreaded PD set in. There are many other whom I just as soon not mention. At any rate, I have done a lot of research on this stuff and always walk away from it in horror. It's a one way street for which there is no way out, as the brain cells eventually liquify in the end and the victim is the put on life support and then he dies. Just plain awful.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Football, soccer, hockey, none of them compare to the head trauma experienced in boxing. I use to try to rationalize it as well, but you can't compare other sports to boxing. I love boxing, and I am not trying to change the sport, but just to make people actually pay heed to Freddie Roach, as a person who loves to learn, I can't think of anything that is worth killing my brain for, its what makes us human.

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Yes indeed. I reall some guys back in the '50s who repeatedly took terrible beating in amature fights and in the gym and later became "punchy" before any of us really knew and understood whhat "punchy" meant.

Dr. Margert Goodman often writes about his in The Ring. In a recent article she noted that 1/3 of pro-fighters suffer some type of brain damage. But that includes very minor symptoms. That also means that 2/3 of fighters have no adverse effects.


additionally, studies have suggested that bigger gloves do not make the sport safer, and may even make it more deadly, by adding extra weight to the punch and better protecting the fist. Similarly, there is no objective evidence to prove that headgear provides any extra safety.


Life is full of risk. Spend your youth in a boxing gym and you might slow down mentally as you age; spend your youth in a bar, and you might die of heart disease at 45. Pick your poison.

I look at it this way, Cell phones have been around for what, 15-20 years max. What long term effects might that have maybe in another ten years we will all develop brain cancer. My point is there is risks in everything, but that shouldnt be a reason to stop doing something. Ive fought amateur and now fight pro, and yes you can feel the punches much more, but if fighters worry about what could happen, boxing would be like ballroom dancing. Taking chances and risks is what makes people interesting, not being safe.

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Originally Posted by Boom Boom

I look at it this way, Cell phones have been around for what, 15-20 years max. What long term effects might that have maybe in another ten years we will all develop brain cancer. My point is there is risks in everything, but that shouldnt be a reason to stop doing something. Ive fought amateur and now fight pro, and yes you can feel the punches much more, but if fighters worry about what could happen, boxing would be like ballroom dancing. Taking chances and risks is what makes people interesting, not being safe.

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While I agree with this, I also believe both boxers and trainers should be well-informed with TBI (traumatic brain injury, and it's varying degrees).

Traumatic brain injury - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know I probably at one point already...should have taken a little time off from intense sparring, as was experiencing frequent headaches and likely required a rest from the brain slamming into my cranium.

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

This is taken, in part, from an esssay I included in a Boxing Book I wrote some time ago:

"The condition, which occurs in people who have suffered multiple concussions, commonly manifests itself as dementia or declining mental ability. It also can result in Parkinson’s tremors and lack of coordination. But, plainly stated, it is dementia pugilistica (aka boxer’s syndrome), nothing more and nothing less. It’s a condition caused by being on the receiving end of too many blows to the head, and it’s classically seen in boxers. It is horrific.

"Chronic traumatic brain injury is the most serious health concern in boxing today. While other injuries such as cuts and fractures can be repaired, brain tissue, once damaged, remains damaged. The boxer can recover from the broken nose; severe brain damage is permanent. A single blow or knockout punch, while sometimes fatal, rarely causes the kind of long-term damage that results in this condition. Rather, it is the accumulation of blows, endured over a period of time, both in actual fights and during the many rounds of gym training that is more likely to cause it.

"Now it’s not pleasant to say where that dark place is. Some refer to it colloquially as Palookaville, but it’s far worse than that. Oh, no, this place is at the end of a one-way, irreversible descent, ending where cerebral atrophy occurs and where the brain rapidly shrinks with dead cells dissolving into liquid. Finally and mercifully, the all-but-dead brain eventually begins to shut down, and a decision must be made to remove life support, which in turn will result in cardiac arrest.

"And that is where it all finally ends. No bell tolls with the final ten count for these fallen warriors. Here, the thousands of rounds in the gym during which the blows landed upon your skull offset any possible lingering feeling of invincibility. Here, there is neither denial nor hope. No more triumphs. No romanticizing. The bulb flickers, dims, and dies away. All becomes dark."


I can't help thinking of Johnny Saxon who recently passed away in a nursing home in Florida. He had been diagnosed with PD. He died alone with no one at his side af far as I know.

I agree that fighter/trainers should be informed no doubt, I think a lot of fighter do experience symptoms like slurred speech or memory loss and know it themselves, but still continue to fight. It a personal choice imo. I do think that heavy on a regular basis over the course of many years can take a toll, infrequent sparring shouldnt have any long term effect.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

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Getting hit in the back of the head probably what caused, normally when you get punched its the cerebellum part of the brain that hits the skull because its in the back of the head, and the brain moves backwards when your punched. The cerebellum control your motor skills, balance ,etc. When you get hit in the back of the head the way McCellan was the front of his brain was contacting the skull, and the reason that is so dangerous is because in front of the brain is what is known as the cerebral cortex or the thought process part of the brain, and if that gets too badly damage all higher level though process is either reduced or destroyed, which makes you basically a vegetable.

Also to people like Boom Boom, you can't compare the damage a cell phone does to the damage boxing does. Cell phones don't emit that much radiation compared % of the things that are around us, they can increase your chances of getting cancer, but on a minimal scale. How many people who have been using cell phones for 20 years have alzheimers or parkinsons, how many people using cell phones have brain damage?

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Originally Posted by Boom Boom

I agree that fighter/trainers should be informed no doubt, I think a lot of fighter do experience symptoms like slurred speech or memory loss and know it themselves, but still continue to fight. It a personal choice imo. I do think that heavy on a regular basis over the course of many years can take a toll, infrequent sparring shouldnt have any long term effect.

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Getting hit has long term effects, thats what I am saying if you spar once every 3 months you might not do any long term damage, but who spars only once every 3 months? Also slurred speech isn't one of the strongest signs of brain damage. Its one of the most mistaken attributes to brain damage in boxing. People like Evander HOlyfield will be slurring in one interview, but talk fine in another, its because sometimes they are tired(best example is Chuck Liddell), sometimes they are being medicated for their injuries, or they have had a long day.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

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Getting hit in the back of the head probably what caused, normally when you get punched its the cerebellum part of the brain that hits the skull because its in the back of the head, and the brain moves backwards when your punched. The cerebellum control your motor skills, balance ,etc. When you get hit in the back of the head the way McCellan was the front of his brain was contacting the skull, and the reason that is so dangerous is because in front of the brain is what is known as the cerebral cortex or the thought process part of the brain, and if that gets too badly damage all higher level though process is either reduced or destroyed, which makes you basically a vegetable.

Also to people like Boom Boom, you can't compare the damage a cell phone does to the damage boxing does. Cell phones don't emit that much radiation compared % of the things that are around us, they can increase your chances of getting cancer, but on a minimal scale. How many people who have been using cell phones for 20 years have alzheimers or parkinsons, how many people using cell phones have brain damage?

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Maybe that wasnt the best example, but my point is there are risks in everything. I know more people that have been permenantely injured in a car accident than have brain damage. Im not downplaying the severity of it though, cause yes it is a real thing that does happen to some fighters.

To some degree it happens to most fighters. Not always does it lead to severe problems, but IMO its not worth dumbing yourself down for anything... except maybe booze.

The main danger in getting hit in the back of the head is the brain stem is right there which is the control board for the central nervous system. The occipital lobe is also back there which is why G-Man is now blind from being hit in the back of the head.


Since the stem is where the brain is anchored it stands to reason the brain won't slosh around as much if you hit it from the back but it'll cause more damage as the back of the head is the most vulnerable part. The frontal lobe controls emotions and memory retention which is important but not as important as telling your heart to beat and your lungs to take in air which is what the brain stem does.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

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Contrary to popular belief and some outdated reports it is not glove size that really matters when it comes to the damage....a pair of 18oz gloves will cause as much damage as a pair of 10oz over a long period of time...Glove size really only helps during the duration of the bout....

The constant sloshing of the brain is what causes the damage....

Punch Drunk Syndrome/Pugilistic Dementia- is from a long periods of abuse...most signs show up after 10 or so years in those effected

It can be developed one of two ways...

1. Abundance of concussions in a short period of time

2. Exposure to blows to the head not hard enough to cause a concussion but hard enough to cause the brain to move out of it's comfortable status

It is actually the second of the two that is more likely to cause the damage since the first one will force the body to stop taking abuse before the damage becomes to severe....(Those guys that are KO'd 5 times in a row and can not get licensed:rolleyes:)

I actually did a study of it in College as a theseus for one of my classes....

They claim to find new things out all the time and reword things to un needed extents but it always comes back the same in the end......

Too much hits to the head....Glove size really has little effect in protecting a fighter from brain damage unless he has a very short career in mind

Just ask Troy Aikmen about concussive damage.Football players take severe damage as well but on a large scale recieve no where near the negative stigma of professional fighters.Their are endless contributing factors that can cause problems before a guy even steps into the ring....draining weight,over training to begin with Imo.

Head gear seems a pro/con ??Effectivly a punch is landing on a bigger mass,even partial contact rattles the brain.Seems to protect more so against cuts,visual damage but the grey matter is still dislodged off contact.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

To some degree it happens to most fighters. Not always does it lead to severe problems, but IMO its not worth dumbing yourself down for anything... except maybe booze.

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The idea is to concuss another fighter without killing him. That's what it all boils down to. When you enter the ring, that risk presents itself immediately. When you do almost anything else, the risk is not there. Boxing and the MMA stuff increases the risk incredibly. It is what it is and the risk is part of the culture of boxing. If we cannot accept that, then boxing should be abolished. I accept it.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Just ask Troy Aikmen about concussive damage.Football players take severe damage as well but on a large scale recieve no where near the negative stigma of professional fighters.Their are endless contributing factors that can cause problems before a guy even steps into the ring....draining weight,over training to begin with Imo.

Head gear seems a pro/con ??Effectivly a punch is landing on a bigger mass,even partial contact rattles the brain.Seems to protect more so against cuts,visual damage but the grey matter is still dislodged off contact.

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He has had what three concussions? A fighter can have that many in one fight, it doesn't receive the stigma because its nowhere near as bad, and even football is a sport that is now considered a no-no. Actually helmets help with brain damage, hence why you should wear a helmet when riding a bike or motor bike. If you don't believe try falling on your head without a helmet, and then with one, it acts like a cushion, and your brain doesn't move as much. They actually make a bigger deal about football players getting concusions than they do about boxers or guys like Wladimir Klitschko would never fight again. Because everytime you get a concusion its easier to get another one, and they get progressively more dangerous.

Also its not the glove size, but how its made, sparring gloves actually cushion the blow, they have padding that absorbs a significant portion of the power that normally would land on someone. A pro glove is harder, and those there is less of a cushioning effect, and that does make a huge difference, there is a reason why it doesn't effect you as much, and that does mean less brain injury.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I am reading this book by a neurologist, and he is saying that boxing absolutely a no-no in terms of what it does to your brain... obviously. However I would like to raise the fact that boxing takes it biggest toll on the brain long after you quit doing it. It does lasting damage to the hippocampus and cerebellum which is why it is likely to cause Alzheimers and Parkinsons.

So I am bringing this up because people criticized in particular Freddie Roach for what he has said about the health of certain fighters, but I think while reading this book that I am not going to continue sparring for one, but also guys like Hopkins might be wise to leave the sport asap. Regardless of how hard it is to hit Hopkins he has been fighting pro for 20 years, most of it at the top level of the sport where guys hit harder, and do more damage. I am really worried for guys I admire like him, Holyfield, and other guys like Margarito who are really going to suffer in their late 40's and 50's. All pro fighters suffer multiple times the brain damage an average person does, and even guys like Leonard who have escaped rather unscathed have far less intellectual capacity than they would have, had they not put on a pair of gloves. I feel these are important things for people in boxing to know, and it seems avoided way too much.

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Brave choise of subject.:appl::appl:

I remember after losing a hard amateur fight my whole head was hurting so bad I could not even open my jaw wide enough to fit my food in.


Point is if you get hit in the head at all its not going to do you any good in the long term.

Thats boxing.:-\

Saying things like "well you can get brain damage in other sports too" is such a chicken-sh!t, cop out answer IMO.

Boxing (and MMA) are the only sports where the object is to give someone brain damage. Thats the truth. You can watch football without seeing a bone jarring hit, and no one will care. You can watch hockey without a bodycheck or a fight and no one will care.

When someone doesn't get hurt in boxing, we call it boring. Its not interesting to watch. People watch boxing to see people get hurt, and boxers step in the ring to hurt their opponent. There is no two ways about it. The guys who box with the correct philosophy, to hit and not get hit, people find boring.

Thats why in a way, and it pains me to say this because I love boxing, I think MMA (ufc, ect) is probably the wave of the future because there is much less punishment taken to the head.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Saying things like "well you can get brain damage in other sports too" is such a chicken-sh!t, cop out answer IMO.

Boxing (and MMA) are the only sports where the object is to give someone brain damage. Thats the truth. You can watch football without seeing a bone jarring hit, and no one will care. You can watch hockey without a bodycheck or a fight and no one will care.

When someone doesn't get hurt in boxing, we call it boring. Its not interesting to watch. People watch boxing to see people get hurt, and boxers step in the ring to hurt their opponent. There is no two ways about it. The guys who box with the correct philosophy, to hit and not get hit, people find boring.

Thats why in a way, and it pains me to say this because I love boxing, I think MMA (ufc, ect) is probably the wave of the future because there is much less punishment taken to the head.

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The whole object of the sport of Boxing and MMA is not to inflict brain damage...anyone who thinks so has no REAL understanding of the sport...They have simply an urge to see someone permenatly injured and that is an issue of their own.....

Sure everyone likes to see a KO but no one wants to see someone injured severly.....Brain Damage from long term just happens to be a side effect that goes along with being hit so often...the body is a machine and like any machine it can only take so much....Athletes that take better care of themselves deal with it better...

In FACT most NHL hocky players recieve harder hits that cause more damage to the head then the average KO punch....It is often rare that a KO punch in itself has any long lasting effects...there is usually some sort of damage already in place prior if that does happen

The sport of Boxing is one that proves the better man/woman, it is one that shows skill and how hard a person has worked in perfecting their craft...it shows who is physically able to bring their body and reflexes to the greater point.....It is not to cause brain damage on your opponent....

In MMA most genuine fans of the sport and not the casual armchair fan appreciate a well executed submission just as much if not more in most cases

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

The whole object of the sport of Boxing and MMA is not to inflict brain damage...anyone who thinks so has no REAL understanding of the sport...They have simply an urge to see someone permenatly injured and that is an issue of their own.....

Sure everyone likes to see a KO but no one wants to see someone injured severly.....Brain Damage from long term just happens to be a side effect that goes along with being hit so often...the body is a machine and like any machine it can only take so much....Athletes that take better care of themselves deal with it better...

In FACT most NHL hocky players recieve harder hits that cause more damage to the head then the average KO punch....It is often rare that a KO punch in itself has any long lasting effects...there is usually some sort of damage already in place prior if that does happen

The sport of Boxing is one that proves the better man/woman, it is one that shows skill and how hard a person has worked in perfecting their craft...it shows who is physically able to bring their body and reflexes to the greater point.....It is not to cause brain damage on your opponent....

In MMA most genuine fans of the sport and not the casual armchair fan appreciate a well executed submission just as much if not more in most cases

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A KO means a concussion, which is brain damage, and a KO is the main goal of boxing. There is no better win in the eyes of the fans than a KO.

Yes boxing shows how hard a person has worked to hone their skill and reflexes, but why do they do it? To be better prepared to KO or incapacitate another human being.

You say hockey players often take bigger hits (and in some cases maybe they do, the Lindros bros in particular have had bad concussion-riden pasts), but how many former NHL'ers do you see with slurred speech, or that can't dress themselves when they hit 55? How many NHLers do you see die on the ice from a head injury? Boxing has the stats to prove how dangerous and brutal it is.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

The whole object of the sport of Boxing and MMA is not to inflict brain damage...anyone who thinks so has no REAL understanding of the sport...They have simply an urge to see someone permenatly injured and that is an issue of their own.....

Sure everyone likes to see a KO but no one wants to see someone injured severly.....Brain Damage from long term just happens to be a side effect that goes along with being hit so often...the body is a machine and like any machine it can only take so much....Athletes that take better care of themselves deal with it better...

In FACT most NHL hocky players recieve harder hits that cause more damage to the head then the average KO punch....It is often rare that a KO punch in itself has any long lasting effects...there is usually some sort of damage already in place prior if that does happen

The sport of Boxing is one that proves the better man/woman, it is one that shows skill and how hard a person has worked in perfecting their craft...it shows who is physically able to bring their body and reflexes to the greater point.....It is not to cause brain damage on your opponent....

In MMA most genuine fans of the sport and not the casual armchair fan appreciate a well executed submission just as much if not more in most cases

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A KO means a concussion, which is brain damage, and a KO is the main goal of boxing. There is no better win in the eyes of the fans than a KO.

Yes boxing shows how hard a person has worked to hone their skill and reflexes, but why do they do it? To be better prepared to KO or incapacitate another human being.

You say hockey players often take bigger hits (and in some cases maybe they do, the Lindros bros in particular have had bad concussion-riden pasts), but how many former NHL'ers do you see with slurred speech, or that can't dress themselves when they hit 55? How many NHLers do you see die on the ice from a head injury? Boxing has the stats to prove how dangerous and brutal it is.

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The amount of force the average Hocky Player takes from a hit during an NHL game is beyond what a Pro boxer recieves from a punch...

TESTED...MEASURED...RESULTS RECORDED...FACT!!!!!!!

Before you start trying to act like you know something do yourself a favor and do some research before you make a fool of yourself.....

A Hocky Player on the tail end of a full body check gets hit bwith a lot more then just a punch they absorb the full weight of a 200lb man coming at them 5-10 miles an hour....That much with out anything more is common sense..

They takje less shots then the average fighter certainly by far but if you compare the 2 blows one is much harder whn measuring power wise....

Also since you write without reading everything I do remember mentioning in one of my post about long term effects from a massive amount of blows not just one or two concussions being more dangerous..

Since you feel that everything remains around the KO then explain to us all fight DR how it is guys like Pernell who only suffered 1 KO loss or better yet Hector Camacho who has NEVER been KO'd....and he has brain damage

I got curious so I did some research,the leader in sports related deaths...........
Wait for it..............
Wait for it.............
Bicycling
Somebody get me my lawyer on the line,Im suing the hell out of Schwin and Huffy

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

I got curious so I did some research,the leader in sports related deaths...........
Wait for it..............
Wait for it.............
Bicycling
Somebody get me my lawyer on the line,Im suing the hell out of Schwin and Huffy

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http://www.humorhost.com/top_fp/ouch.jpg

Exhibit 1

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

I got curious so I did some research,the leader in sports related deaths...........
Wait for it..............
Wait for it.............
Bicycling
Somebody get me my lawyer on the line,Im suing the hell out of Schwin and Huffy

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Are you talking cycling as a competitive organized sport, or cycling in general including sport and recreational pastime? You have a link to support this? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

I got curious so I did some research,the leader in sports related deaths...........
Wait for it..............
Wait for it.............
Bicycling
Somebody get me my lawyer on the line,Im suing the hell out of Schwin and Huffy

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Are you talking cycling as a competitive organized sport, or cycling in general including recreational pastime? You have a link to support this? Thanks.

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Id have to look it up again,but if you run a google search using Sport Related Deaths,you'll end up finding both the links I found,theyre relatively dry stats to read through. Bicycling is also the leader in juvenile injuries.
Though for juvenile trips to the emergency room, I was surprised to see that basketball was really high up there,I didnt expect that.
Wait I still had it in my google bar so I looked it up again
Heres one
Sports Injury Statistics - My Child Has - Children's Hospital Boston
Heres another
Sport Injuries and Injury Statistics
There are more links,but my ass is way to lazy to keep digging again

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

The amount of force the average Hocky Player takes from a hit during an NHL game is beyond what a Pro boxer recieves from a punch...

TESTED...MEASURED...RESULTS RECORDED...FACT!!!!!!!

Before you start trying to act like you know something do yourself a favor and do some research before you make a fool of yourself.....

A Hocky Player on the tail end of a full body check gets hit bwith a lot more then just a punch they absorb the full weight of a 200lb man coming at them 5-10 miles an hour....That much with out anything more is common sense..

They takje less shots then the average fighter certainly by far but if you compare the 2 blows one is much harder whn measuring power wise....

Also since you write without reading everything I do remember mentioning in one of my post about long term effects from a massive amount of blows not just one or two concussions being more dangerous..

Since you feel that everything remains around the KO then explain to us all fight DR how it is guys like Pernell who only suffered 1 KO loss or better yet Hector Camacho who has NEVER been KO'd....and he has brain damage

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I figured I'd have to defend my position, I just didn't know it would be this easy. I figured someone would at least put some thought into a reply, so let me break it down slowly so that you can understand.

YES, a hockey check exerts more pressure than a punch. But where is the pressure exerted? TO THE HOCKEY PLAYER'S BODY. Its mostly shoulder to shoulder/chest impact. On the odd occaision where a shoulder catches a chin, the results are disasterous, YES. But the majority of checks are body to body, therefore THE BODY obsorbs the majority of the blow.

Think about it: Earnie Shavers punches me in the arm, and Oscar de la Hoya punches you in the head. Obviously Earnie's punch will exert much more pressure, but my body is obsorbing the blow, whereas your head is obsorbing Oscar's blow. I took a harder blow, but you're going to be the one spelling his name with an "894" for the rest of his life. Understand?

And where did I mention EVERYTHING is about the KO? Re-read my post. I didn't. I said a KO equals a concussion, which by definition equals damage to your brain. I did not say that was the only way to damage your brain. I am well aware that subconcussive blows are also incredibly damaging. I have no idea why you brought this up, because it only adds to my arguement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Id have to look it up again,but if you run a google search using Sport Related Deaths,you'll end up finding both the links I found,theyre relatively dry stats to read through. Bicycling is also the leader in juvenile injuries.
Though for juvenile trips to the emergency room, I was surprised to see that basketball was really high up there,I didnt expect that.
Wait I still had it in my google bar so I looked it up again
Heres one
Sports Injury Statistics - My Child Has - Children's Hospital Boston
Heres another
Sport Injuries and Injury Statistics
There are more links,but my ass is way to lazy to keep digging again

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Trips to the emergency room stats are irrelevant IMO. Its niave to compare injuries that can be repaired, such as a broken limb, to irrepairable, irreversible brain damage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

The amount of force the average Hocky Player takes from a hit during an NHL game is beyond what a Pro boxer recieves from a punch...

TESTED...MEASURED...RESULTS RECORDED...FACT!!!!!!!

Before you start trying to act like you know something do yourself a favor and do some research before you make a fool of yourself.....

A Hocky Player on the tail end of a full body check gets hit bwith a lot more then just a punch they absorb the full weight of a 200lb man coming at them 5-10 miles an hour....That much with out anything more is common sense..

They takje less shots then the average fighter certainly by far but if you compare the 2 blows one is much harder whn measuring power wise....

Also since you write without reading everything I do remember mentioning in one of my post about long term effects from a massive amount of blows not just one or two concussions being more dangerous..

Since you feel that everything remains around the KO then explain to us all fight DR how it is guys like Pernell who only suffered 1 KO loss or better yet Hector Camacho who has NEVER been KO'd....and he has brain damage

---

I figured I'd have to defend my position, I just didn't know it would be this easy. I figured someone would at least put some thought into a reply, so let me break it down slowly so that you can understand.

YES, a hockey check exerts more pressure than a punch. But where is the pressure exerted? TO THE HOCKEY PLAYER'S BODY. Its mostly shoulder to shoulder/chest impact. On the odd occaision where a shoulder catches a chin, the results are disasterous, YES. But the majority of checks are body to body, therefore THE BODY obsorbs the majority of the blow.

Think about it: Earnie Shavers punches me in the arm, and Oscar de la Hoya punches you in the head. Obviously Earnie's punch will exert much more pressure, but my body is obsorbing the blow, whereas your head is obsorbing Oscar's blow. I took a harder blow, but you're going to be the one spelling his name with an "894" for the rest of his life. Understand?

And where did I mention EVERYTHING is about the KO? Re-read my post. I didn't. I said a KO equals a concussion, which by definition equals damage to your brain. I did not say that was the only way to damage your brain. I am well aware that subconcussive blows are also incredibly damaging. I have no idea why you brought this up, because it only adds to my arguement.

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Even then your argument is flawed,you take 3 straight KO's your on indefinite suspension until you have your noggin examined.
You take three concussions in hockey,or football,they just see when your ready to come back

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Id have to look it up again,but if you run a google search using Sport Related Deaths,you'll end up finding both the links I found,theyre relatively dry stats to read through. Bicycling is also the leader in juvenile injuries.
Though for juvenile trips to the emergency room, I was surprised to see that basketball was really high up there,I didnt expect that.
Wait I still had it in my google bar so I looked it up again
Heres one
Sports Injury Statistics - My Child Has - Children's Hospital Boston
Heres another
Sport Injuries and Injury Statistics
There are more links,but my ass is way to lazy to keep digging again

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Trips to the emergency room stats are irrelevant IMO. Its niave to compare injuries that can be repaired, such as a broken limb, to irrepairable, irreversible brain damage.

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Yeah hang out with my arthritis and tell me that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CGM

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

I got curious so I did some research,the leader in sports related deaths...........
Wait for it..............
Wait for it.............
Bicycling
Somebody get me my lawyer on the line,Im suing the hell out of Schwin and Huffy

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Are you talking cycling as a competitive organized sport, or cycling in general including recreational pastime? You have a link to support this? Thanks.

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Id have to look it up again,but if you run a google search using Sport Related Deaths,you'll end up finding both the links I found,theyre relatively dry stats to read through. Bicycling is also the leader in juvenile injuries.
Though for juvenile trips to the emergency room, I was surprised to see that basketball was really high up there,I didnt expect that.
Wait I still had it in my google bar so I looked it up again
Heres one
Sports Injury Statistics - My Child Has - Children's Hospital Boston
Heres another
Sport Injuries and Injury Statistics
There are more links,but my ass is way to lazy to keep digging again

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Yeah, I am also too lazy to spend a lot of time looking. I'd be surprised if we are talking about just competitive bicycle racing. But a high death rate in recreational cycling that wouldn't surprise me, as there is a somewhat higher risk of getting hit by a car while cycling, than in the boxing ring. I'd also say the participation numbers are much lower for boxing.

A quick bit research seems to indicate that the most common sports related cause of death is cardiac arrest, which can happen in any sport. The numbers are surprisingly high for young people and cardiac arrest.