Boxing and brain damage.

[Taeth]

Football, soccer, hockey, none of them compare to the head trauma experienced in boxing. I use to try to rationalize it as well, but you can't compare other sports to boxing. I love boxing, and I am not trying to change the sport, but just to make people actually pay heed to Freddie Roach, as a person who loves to learn, I can't think of anything that is worth killing my brain for, its what makes us human.

[holmcall]

Football, soccer, hockey, none of them compare to the head trauma experienced in boxing. I use to try to rationalize it as well, but you can't compare other sports to boxing. I love boxing, and I am not trying to change the sport, but just to make people actually pay heed to Freddie Roach, as a person who loves to learn, I can't think of anything that is worth killing my brain for, its what makes us human.

Yes indeed. I reall some guys back in the '50s who repeatedly took terrible beating in amature fights and in the gym and later became "punchy" before any of us really knew and understood whhat "punchy" meant.

[Lance Uppercut]

Dr. Margert Goodman often writes about his in The Ring. In a recent article she noted that 1/3 of pro-fighters suffer some type of brain damage. But that includes very minor symptoms. That also means that 2/3 of fighters have no adverse effects.


additionally, studies have suggested that bigger gloves do not make the sport safer, and may even make it more deadly, by adding extra weight to the punch and better protecting the fist. Similarly, there is no objective evidence to prove that headgear provides any extra safety.


Life is full of risk. Spend your youth in a boxing gym and you might slow down mentally as you age; spend your youth in a bar, and you might die of heart disease at 45. Pick your poison.

[Boom Boom]

I look at it this way, Cell phones have been around for what, 15-20 years max. What long term effects might that have maybe in another ten years we will all develop brain cancer. My point is there is risks in everything, but that shouldnt be a reason to stop doing something. Ive fought amateur and now fight pro, and yes you can feel the punches much more, but if fighters worry about what could happen, boxing would be like ballroom dancing. Taking chances and risks is what makes people interesting, not being safe.

[Youngblood]

I look at it this way, Cell phones have been around for what, 15-20 years max. What long term effects might that have maybe in another ten years we will all develop brain cancer. My point is there is risks in everything, but that shouldnt be a reason to stop doing something. Ive fought amateur and now fight pro, and yes you can feel the punches much more, but if fighters worry about what could happen, boxing would be like ballroom dancing. Taking chances and risks is what makes people interesting, not being safe.

While I agree with this, I also believe both boxers and trainers should be well-informed with TBI (traumatic brain injury, and it's varying degrees).

Traumatic brain injury - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know I probably at one point already...should have taken a little time off from intense sparring, as was experiencing frequent headaches and likely required a rest from the brain slamming into my cranium.

[El Kabong]

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

[Boom Boom]

I agree that fighter/trainers should be informed no doubt, I think a lot of fighter do experience symptoms like slurred speech or memory loss and know it themselves, but still continue to fight. It a personal choice imo. I do think that heavy on a regular basis over the course of many years can take a toll, infrequent sparring shouldnt have any long term effect.

[Taeth]

I agree that fighter/trainers should be informed no doubt, I think a lot of fighter do experience symptoms like slurred speech or memory loss and know it themselves, but still continue to fight. It a personal choice imo. I do think that heavy on a regular basis over the course of many years can take a toll, infrequent sparring shouldnt have any long term effect.

Getting hit has long term effects, thats what I am saying if you spar once every 3 months you might not do any long term damage, but who spars only once every 3 months? Also slurred speech isn't one of the strongest signs of brain damage. Its one of the most mistaken attributes to brain damage in boxing. People like Evander HOlyfield will be slurring in one interview, but talk fine in another, its because sometimes they are tired(best example is Chuck Liddell), sometimes they are being medicated for their injuries, or they have had a long day.

[Taeth]

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

Getting hit in the back of the head probably what caused, normally when you get punched its the cerebellum part of the brain that hits the skull because its in the back of the head, and the brain moves backwards when your punched. The cerebellum control your motor skills, balance ,etc. When you get hit in the back of the head the way McCellan was the front of his brain was contacting the skull, and the reason that is so dangerous is because in front of the brain is what is known as the cerebral cortex or the thought process part of the brain, and if that gets too badly damage all higher level though process is either reduced or destroyed, which makes you basically a vegetable.

Also to people like Boom Boom, you can't compare the damage a cell phone does to the damage boxing does. Cell phones don't emit that much radiation compared % of the things that are around us, they can increase your chances of getting cancer, but on a minimal scale. How many people who have been using cell phones for 20 years have alzheimers or parkinsons, how many people using cell phones have brain damage?

[Boom Boom]

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

Getting hit in the back of the head probably what caused, normally when you get punched its the cerebellum part of the brain that hits the skull because its in the back of the head, and the brain moves backwards when your punched. The cerebellum control your motor skills, balance ,etc. When you get hit in the back of the head the way McCellan was the front of his brain was contacting the skull, and the reason that is so dangerous is because in front of the brain is what is known as the cerebral cortex or the thought process part of the brain, and if that gets too badly damage all higher level though process is either reduced or destroyed, which makes you basically a vegetable.

Also to people like Boom Boom, you can't compare the damage a cell phone does to the damage boxing does. Cell phones don't emit that much radiation compared % of the things that are around us, they can increase your chances of getting cancer, but on a minimal scale. How many people who have been using cell phones for 20 years have alzheimers or parkinsons, how many people using cell phones have brain damage?

Maybe that wasnt the best example, but my point is there are risks in everything. I know more people that have been permenantely injured in a car accident than have brain damage. Im not downplaying the severity of it though, cause yes it is a real thing that does happen to some fighters.

[El Kabong]

The main danger in getting hit in the back of the head is the brain stem is right there which is the control board for the central nervous system. The occipital lobe is also back there which is why G-Man is now blind from being hit in the back of the head.


Since the stem is where the brain is anchored it stands to reason the brain won't slosh around as much if you hit it from the back but it'll cause more damage as the back of the head is the most vulnerable part. The frontal lobe controls emotions and memory retention which is important but not as important as telling your heart to beat and your lungs to take in air which is what the brain stem does.

[DaxxKahn]

I think heavy sparring is what got Gerald McClellan hurt, he was a notorious gym rat and sparred near 100% and I think he may have been not 100% when he started the fight with Benn much less after repeated blows to the back of the head.



I don't know about you guys but I think bigger gloves make for more brain damage (to a certain point) because no one worries about breaking their hands ergo you throw harder because you're not thinking "if I land this punch wrong it's going to hurt really bad" (as much).

Contrary to popular belief and some outdated reports it is not glove size that really matters when it comes to the damage....a pair of 18oz gloves will cause as much damage as a pair of 10oz over a long period of time...Glove size really only helps during the duration of the bout....

The constant sloshing of the brain is what causes the damage....

Punch Drunk Syndrome/Pugilistic Dementia- is from a long periods of abuse...most signs show up after 10 or so years in those effected

It can be developed one of two ways...

1. Abundance of concussions in a short period of time

2. Exposure to blows to the head not hard enough to cause a concussion but hard enough to cause the brain to move out of it's comfortable status

It is actually the second of the two that is more likely to cause the damage since the first one will force the body to stop taking abuse before the damage becomes to severe....(Those guys that are KO'd 5 times in a row and can not get licensed)

I actually did a study of it in College as a theseus for one of my classes....

They claim to find new things out all the time and reword things to un needed extents but it always comes back the same in the end......

Too much hits to the head....Glove size really has little effect in protecting a fighter from brain damage unless he has a very short career in mind

[Spicoli]

Just ask Troy Aikmen about concussive damage.Football players take severe damage as well but on a large scale recieve no where near the negative stigma of professional fighters.Their are endless contributing factors that can cause problems before a guy even steps into the ring....draining weight,over training to begin with Imo.

Head gear seems a pro/con ??Effectivly a punch is landing on a bigger mass,even partial contact rattles the brain.Seems to protect more so against cuts,visual damage but the grey matter is still dislodged off contact.

[oscarfan77]

Normally, one trauma will not do it. An accumulation will, however. And sparring is one of the primaru causes of brain damage with boxers.

Actually in studies one punch in a pro fight is the equivalent of about 16 or 17 in sparring and amateur fighting. In fact because sparring and amateurs use a different type of glove, and the fighters don't tend to sit down on their punches in fact they don't do the same permanent damage that punches that you receive in a pro fight. Sparring and amateur fighting generally only causes swelling which will heal in about 3 months, but pro fights will actually cause tears in the brain that are permanent damage.

Maybe;maybe not. I know too many guys who have told me their condition was caused by too many rounds in the Gym. I do, however, agree, that punches in a pro fight are the heaviest. Also, the number of amature fights can play into this. But for me, it's all about accumulative punishment over a period of time. Bowe was well on the way and then Golata super-charged his journey. Bobby Chacon's last 7 fights were against stiff competition and he won each pretty easily as I recall. Then, several years later, the dreaded PD set in. There are many other whom I just as soon not mention. At any rate, I have done a lot of research on this stuff and always walk away from it in horror. It's a one way street for which there is no way out, as the brain cells eventually liquify in the end and the victim is the put on life support and then he dies. Just plain awful.

Everyday we all make choices, the question is when it comes to boxing, would any 18 or 19 year old male care what is LIKELY to happen to them when they are 40 or 50 IF in the meantime they can be millionaires, travel the world, be famous and adored by everyone.... I don't know many who would turn that down for a peaceful golden years.

Having said that, I think there should be time/age limits to boxing.. for one thing when they get too old, it's just boring to watch! There must be a prime boxing age... where the bouts are fast and exciting... before or after that point is not all that interesting.

[holmcall]

This is taken, in part, from an esssay I included in a Boxing Book I wrote some time ago:

"The condition, which occurs in people who have suffered multiple concussions, commonly manifests itself as dementia or declining mental ability. It also can result in Parkinson’s tremors and lack of coordination. But, plainly stated, it is dementia pugilistica (aka boxer’s syndrome), nothing more and nothing less. It’s a condition caused by being on the receiving end of too many blows to the head, and it’s classically seen in boxers. It is horrific.

"Chronic traumatic brain injury is the most serious health concern in boxing today. While other injuries such as cuts and fractures can be repaired, brain tissue, once damaged, remains damaged. The boxer can recover from the broken nose; severe brain damage is permanent. A single blow or knockout punch, while sometimes fatal, rarely causes the kind of long-term damage that results in this condition. Rather, it is the accumulation of blows, endured over a period of time, both in actual fights and during the many rounds of gym training that is more likely to cause it.

"Now it’s not pleasant to say where that dark place is. Some refer to it colloquially as Palookaville, but it’s far worse than that. Oh, no, this place is at the end of a one-way, irreversible descent, ending where cerebral atrophy occurs and where the brain rapidly shrinks with dead cells dissolving into liquid. Finally and mercifully, the all-but-dead brain eventually begins to shut down, and a decision must be made to remove life support, which in turn will result in cardiac arrest.

"And that is where it all finally ends. No bell tolls with the final ten count for these fallen warriors. Here, the thousands of rounds in the gym during which the blows landed upon your skull offset any possible lingering feeling of invincibility. Here, there is neither denial nor hope. No more triumphs. No romanticizing. The bulb flickers, dims, and dies away. All becomes dark."


I can't help thinking of Johnny Saxon who recently passed away in a nursing home in Florida. He had been diagnosed with PD. He died alone with no one at his side af far as I know.