Boxing and brain damage.

[Beanflicker]

Saying things like "well you can get brain damage in other sports too" is such a chicken-sh!t, cop out answer IMO.

Boxing (and MMA) are the only sports where the object is to give someone brain damage. Thats the truth. You can watch football without seeing a bone jarring hit, and no one will care. You can watch hockey without a bodycheck or a fight and no one will care.

When someone doesn't get hurt in boxing, we call it boring. Its not interesting to watch. People watch boxing to see people get hurt, and boxers step in the ring to hurt their opponent. There is no two ways about it. The guys who box with the correct philosophy, to hit and not get hit, people find boring.

Thats why in a way, and it pains me to say this because I love boxing, I think MMA (ufc, ect) is probably the wave of the future because there is much less punishment taken to the head.

[DaxxKahn]

Saying things like "well you can get brain damage in other sports too" is such a chicken-sh!t, cop out answer IMO.

Boxing (and MMA) are the only sports where the object is to give someone brain damage. Thats the truth. You can watch football without seeing a bone jarring hit, and no one will care. You can watch hockey without a bodycheck or a fight and no one will care.

When someone doesn't get hurt in boxing, we call it boring. Its not interesting to watch. People watch boxing to see people get hurt, and boxers step in the ring to hurt their opponent. There is no two ways about it. The guys who box with the correct philosophy, to hit and not get hit, people find boring.

Thats why in a way, and it pains me to say this because I love boxing, I think MMA (ufc, ect) is probably the wave of the future because there is much less punishment taken to the head.

The whole object of the sport of Boxing and MMA is not to inflict brain damage...anyone who thinks so has no REAL understanding of the sport...They have simply an urge to see someone permenatly injured and that is an issue of their own.....

Sure everyone likes to see a KO but no one wants to see someone injured severly.....Brain Damage from long term just happens to be a side effect that goes along with being hit so often...the body is a machine and like any machine it can only take so much....Athletes that take better care of themselves deal with it better...

In FACT most NHL hocky players recieve harder hits that cause more damage to the head then the average KO punch....It is often rare that a KO punch in itself has any long lasting effects...there is usually some sort of damage already in place prior if that does happen

The sport of Boxing is one that proves the better man/woman, it is one that shows skill and how hard a person has worked in perfecting their craft...it shows who is physically able to bring their body and reflexes to the greater point.....It is not to cause brain damage on your opponent....

In MMA most genuine fans of the sport and not the casual armchair fan appreciate a well executed submission just as much if not more in most cases

[Beanflicker]

The whole object of the sport of Boxing and MMA is not to inflict brain damage...anyone who thinks so has no REAL understanding of the sport...They have simply an urge to see someone permenatly injured and that is an issue of their own.....

Sure everyone likes to see a KO but no one wants to see someone injured severly.....Brain Damage from long term just happens to be a side effect that goes along with being hit so often...the body is a machine and like any machine it can only take so much....Athletes that take better care of themselves deal with it better...

In FACT most NHL hocky players recieve harder hits that cause more damage to the head then the average KO punch....It is often rare that a KO punch in itself has any long lasting effects...there is usually some sort of damage already in place prior if that does happen

The sport of Boxing is one that proves the better man/woman, it is one that shows skill and how hard a person has worked in perfecting their craft...it shows who is physically able to bring their body and reflexes to the greater point.....It is not to cause brain damage on your opponent....

In MMA most genuine fans of the sport and not the casual armchair fan appreciate a well executed submission just as much if not more in most cases

A KO means a concussion, which is brain damage, and a KO is the main goal of boxing. There is no better win in the eyes of the fans than a KO.

Yes boxing shows how hard a person has worked to hone their skill and reflexes, but why do they do it? To be better prepared to KO or incapacitate another human being.

You say hockey players often take bigger hits (and in some cases maybe they do, the Lindros bros in particular have had bad concussion-riden pasts), but how many former NHL'ers do you see with slurred speech, or that can't dress themselves when they hit 55? How many NHLers do you see die on the ice from a head injury? Boxing has the stats to prove how dangerous and brutal it is.

[DaxxKahn]

The whole object of the sport of Boxing and MMA is not to inflict brain damage...anyone who thinks so has no REAL understanding of the sport...They have simply an urge to see someone permenatly injured and that is an issue of their own.....

Sure everyone likes to see a KO but no one wants to see someone injured severly.....Brain Damage from long term just happens to be a side effect that goes along with being hit so often...the body is a machine and like any machine it can only take so much....Athletes that take better care of themselves deal with it better...

In FACT most NHL hocky players recieve harder hits that cause more damage to the head then the average KO punch....It is often rare that a KO punch in itself has any long lasting effects...there is usually some sort of damage already in place prior if that does happen

The sport of Boxing is one that proves the better man/woman, it is one that shows skill and how hard a person has worked in perfecting their craft...it shows who is physically able to bring their body and reflexes to the greater point.....It is not to cause brain damage on your opponent....

In MMA most genuine fans of the sport and not the casual armchair fan appreciate a well executed submission just as much if not more in most cases

A KO means a concussion, which is brain damage, and a KO is the main goal of boxing. There is no better win in the eyes of the fans than a KO.

Yes boxing shows how hard a person has worked to hone their skill and reflexes, but why do they do it? To be better prepared to KO or incapacitate another human being.

You say hockey players often take bigger hits (and in some cases maybe they do, the Lindros bros in particular have had bad concussion-riden pasts), but how many former NHL'ers do you see with slurred speech, or that can't dress themselves when they hit 55? How many NHLers do you see die on the ice from a head injury? Boxing has the stats to prove how dangerous and brutal it is.

The amount of force the average Hocky Player takes from a hit during an NHL game is beyond what a Pro boxer recieves from a punch...

TESTED...MEASURED...RESULTS RECORDED...FACT!!!!!!!

Before you start trying to act like you know something do yourself a favor and do some research before you make a fool of yourself.....

A Hocky Player on the tail end of a full body check gets hit bwith a lot more then just a punch they absorb the full weight of a 200lb man coming at them 5-10 miles an hour....That much with out anything more is common sense..

They takje less shots then the average fighter certainly by far but if you compare the 2 blows one is much harder whn measuring power wise....

Also since you write without reading everything I do remember mentioning in one of my post about long term effects from a massive amount of blows not just one or two concussions being more dangerous..

Since you feel that everything remains around the KO then explain to us all fight DR how it is guys like Pernell who only suffered 1 KO loss or better yet Hector Camacho who has NEVER been KO'd....and he has brain damage

[Trainer Monkey]

I got curious so I did some research,the leader in sports related deaths...........
Wait for it..............
Wait for it.............
Bicycling
Somebody get me my lawyer on the line,Im suing the hell out of Schwin and Huffy

[DaxxKahn]

I got curious so I did some research,the leader in sports related deaths...........
Wait for it..............
Wait for it.............
Bicycling
Somebody get me my lawyer on the line,Im suing the hell out of Schwin and Huffy

Exhibit 1

[CGM]

I got curious so I did some research,the leader in sports related deaths...........
Wait for it..............
Wait for it.............
Bicycling
Somebody get me my lawyer on the line,Im suing the hell out of Schwin and Huffy

Are you talking cycling as a competitive organized sport, or cycling in general including sport and recreational pastime? You have a link to support this? Thanks.

[Trainer Monkey]

I got curious so I did some research,the leader in sports related deaths...........
Wait for it..............
Wait for it.............
Bicycling
Somebody get me my lawyer on the line,Im suing the hell out of Schwin and Huffy

Are you talking cycling as a competitive organized sport, or cycling in general including recreational pastime? You have a link to support this? Thanks.

Id have to look it up again,but if you run a google search using Sport Related Deaths,you'll end up finding both the links I found,theyre relatively dry stats to read through. Bicycling is also the leader in juvenile injuries.
Though for juvenile trips to the emergency room, I was surprised to see that basketball was really high up there,I didnt expect that.
Wait I still had it in my google bar so I looked it up again
Heres one
Sports Injury Statistics - My Child Has - Children's Hospital Boston
Heres another
Sport Injuries and Injury Statistics
There are more links,but my ass is way to lazy to keep digging again

[Beanflicker]

The amount of force the average Hocky Player takes from a hit during an NHL game is beyond what a Pro boxer recieves from a punch...

TESTED...MEASURED...RESULTS RECORDED...FACT!!!!!!!

Before you start trying to act like you know something do yourself a favor and do some research before you make a fool of yourself.....

A Hocky Player on the tail end of a full body check gets hit bwith a lot more then just a punch they absorb the full weight of a 200lb man coming at them 5-10 miles an hour....That much with out anything more is common sense..

They takje less shots then the average fighter certainly by far but if you compare the 2 blows one is much harder whn measuring power wise....

Also since you write without reading everything I do remember mentioning in one of my post about long term effects from a massive amount of blows not just one or two concussions being more dangerous..

Since you feel that everything remains around the KO then explain to us all fight DR how it is guys like Pernell who only suffered 1 KO loss or better yet Hector Camacho who has NEVER been KO'd....and he has brain damage

I figured I'd have to defend my position, I just didn't know it would be this easy. I figured someone would at least put some thought into a reply, so let me break it down slowly so that you can understand.

YES, a hockey check exerts more pressure than a punch. But where is the pressure exerted? TO THE HOCKEY PLAYER'S BODY. Its mostly shoulder to shoulder/chest impact. On the odd occaision where a shoulder catches a chin, the results are disasterous, YES. But the majority of checks are body to body, therefore THE BODY obsorbs the majority of the blow.

Think about it: Earnie Shavers punches me in the arm, and Oscar de la Hoya punches you in the head. Obviously Earnie's punch will exert much more pressure, but my body is obsorbing the blow, whereas your head is obsorbing Oscar's blow. I took a harder blow, but you're going to be the one spelling his name with an "894" for the rest of his life. Understand?

And where did I mention EVERYTHING is about the KO? Re-read my post. I didn't. I said a KO equals a concussion, which by definition equals damage to your brain. I did not say that was the only way to damage your brain. I am well aware that subconcussive blows are also incredibly damaging. I have no idea why you brought this up, because it only adds to my arguement.

[Trainer Monkey]

The amount of force the average Hocky Player takes from a hit during an NHL game is beyond what a Pro boxer recieves from a punch...

TESTED...MEASURED...RESULTS RECORDED...FACT!!!!!!!

Before you start trying to act like you know something do yourself a favor and do some research before you make a fool of yourself.....

A Hocky Player on the tail end of a full body check gets hit bwith a lot more then just a punch they absorb the full weight of a 200lb man coming at them 5-10 miles an hour....That much with out anything more is common sense..

They takje less shots then the average fighter certainly by far but if you compare the 2 blows one is much harder whn measuring power wise....

Also since you write without reading everything I do remember mentioning in one of my post about long term effects from a massive amount of blows not just one or two concussions being more dangerous..

Since you feel that everything remains around the KO then explain to us all fight DR how it is guys like Pernell who only suffered 1 KO loss or better yet Hector Camacho who has NEVER been KO'd....and he has brain damage

I figured I'd have to defend my position, I just didn't know it would be this easy. I figured someone would at least put some thought into a reply, so let me break it down slowly so that you can understand.

YES, a hockey check exerts more pressure than a punch. But where is the pressure exerted? TO THE HOCKEY PLAYER'S BODY. Its mostly shoulder to shoulder/chest impact. On the odd occaision where a shoulder catches a chin, the results are disasterous, YES. But the majority of checks are body to body, therefore THE BODY obsorbs the majority of the blow.

Think about it: Earnie Shavers punches me in the arm, and Oscar de la Hoya punches you in the head. Obviously Earnie's punch will exert much more pressure, but my body is obsorbing the blow, whereas your head is obsorbing Oscar's blow. I took a harder blow, but you're going to be the one spelling his name with an "894" for the rest of his life. Understand?

And where did I mention EVERYTHING is about the KO? Re-read my post. I didn't. I said a KO equals a concussion, which by definition equals damage to your brain. I did not say that was the only way to damage your brain. I am well aware that subconcussive blows are also incredibly damaging. I have no idea why you brought this up, because it only adds to my arguement.

Even then your argument is flawed,you take 3 straight KO's your on indefinite suspension until you have your noggin examined.
You take three concussions in hockey,or football,they just see when your ready to come back

[Beanflicker]

Even then your argument is flawed,you take 3 straight KO's your on indefinite suspension until you have your noggin examined.
You take three concussions in hockey,or football,they just see when your ready to come back

I don't know where you're getting your information you're using (thin air I would imagine), but these big league teams have trainers and physicians on hand for the athletes, so if you have ONE concussion, you get examined and you're cleared when you're better. They don't wait for you to get knocked out 3 times in a row to pay attention to your health. These leagues take care not to tarnish their reputations so there is a lot more emphasis on safety.

Also, when a player is injured often (particularily with concussions), he becomes a liability and often finds his work options limited (look at Eric Lindros). I'm not saying these big league owners are saints, but its a far cry from letting 45 year old Holyfield, a guy 12 years removed from his prime, get into the ring and fight world champs. Or letting a guy with BLATANT signs of brain damage in 41 year old Riddick Bowe fight on the undercard of a world championship fight.

[DaxxKahn]

The amount of force the average Hocky Player takes from a hit during an NHL game is beyond what a Pro boxer recieves from a punch...

TESTED...MEASURED...RESULTS RECORDED...FACT!!!!!!!

Before you start trying to act like you know something do yourself a favor and do some research before you make a fool of yourself.....

A Hocky Player on the tail end of a full body check gets hit bwith a lot more then just a punch they absorb the full weight of a 200lb man coming at them 5-10 miles an hour....That much with out anything more is common sense..

They takje less shots then the average fighter certainly by far but if you compare the 2 blows one is much harder whn measuring power wise....

Also since you write without reading everything I do remember mentioning in one of my post about long term effects from a massive amount of blows not just one or two concussions being more dangerous..

Since you feel that everything remains around the KO then explain to us all fight DR how it is guys like Pernell who only suffered 1 KO loss or better yet Hector Camacho who has NEVER been KO'd....and he has brain damage

I figured I'd have to defend my position, I just didn't know it would be this easy. I figured someone would at least put some thought into a reply, so let me break it down slowly so that you can understand.

YES, a hockey check exerts more pressure than a punch. But where is the pressure exerted? TO THE HOCKEY PLAYER'S BODY. Its mostly shoulder to shoulder/chest impact. On the odd occaision where a shoulder catches a chin, the results are disasterous, YES. But the majority of checks are body to body, therefore THE BODY obsorbs the majority of the blow.

Think about it: Earnie Shavers punches me in the arm, and Oscar de la Hoya punches you in the head. Obviously Earnie's punch will exert much more pressure, but my body is obsorbing the blow, whereas your head is obsorbing Oscar's blow. I took a harder blow, but you're going to be the one spelling his name with an "894" for the rest of his life. Understand?

And where did I mention EVERYTHING is about the KO? Re-read my post. I didn't. I said a KO equals a concussion, which by definition equals damage to your brain. I did not say that was the only way to damage your brain. I am well aware that subconcussive blows are also incredibly damaging. I have no idea why you brought this up, because it only adds to my arguement.

Yeah it is SO EASY FOR YOU TO DEFEND YOUR POSITION....That the test were based on trauma to the head ONLY!!!!

WTF would I be talking about the mass blows to the body...We were talking about head trauma

[DC Amateur Boxing]

Had a related discussion recently and regarding the no headgear - There was a university running a study at the Ringside Tournament regarding headgear and injury. They had boxers (over 18 yrs old) where headgear fitted with a monitoring device. I have to get the name of the university because I can't remember which one it was. The goal was to collect data for improving the protection of the boxers. I personally am ok with the headgear, but I really don't think it stops any trauma. I'm no doctor or scientist (sorry for stating the obvious), but I don't see how headgear really helps lesson the impact of a blow to the head. It's my understanding that the injurious effect of a blow is the brain jogging against the skull inside of the protective fluid that surrounds the brain after sudden movement. When the head is hit and moved violently in different directions, the skull may change directions faster and independent of the brain (because the brain is floating in the fluid). Think of a person in a falling elevator. If the elevator stops or changes direction quickly, what happens to the people inside? Would they be less injured if the elevator was wrapped in a 10 foot-thick layer of rubber? I don't think so.

I found this study that supports my two cents: Boxing Damages Brain Despite Headgear Protection - Demential pugilistica does not only occur in career boxers, as previously thought; it can also affect amateur boxers - Softpedia and this reference to it: Risking it in the ring - Los Angeles Times. I also found another that said headgear lessons the impact, but it was done in conjunction with USAB, so what else would you expect. It's funny that every study or opinion that says there isn't significant injury comes from a person or group affiliated with boxing with the exception of the BMA that produced this Amateur boxing and risk of chronic traumatic brain injury: systematic review of observational studies -- Loosemore et al., 10.1136/bmj.39342.690220.55 -- BMJ which concluded that there is no strong evidence to associate chronic traumatic brain injury with amateur boxing.

There's no doubt we are involved in a very dangerous sport, but so is football, soccer and cheerleading. I for one am all for any improvement made in the rules to help protect boxers. Unfortunately and fortunately for some - most of that responsibility falls on the coaches. To me nothing is more important than protecting boxers - mine and others.

I did find it interesting though how other sports compare, but boxing is at the top of the list per 1,000 Naysi Sport Scene: Sports Injuries Documented but it is the hardest sport ESPN.com: Page 2 - Sport Skills Difficulty Rankings

[holmcall]

Had a related discussion recently and regarding the no headgear - There was a university running a study at the Ringside Tournament regarding headgear and injury. They had boxers (over 18 yrs old) where headgear fitted with a monitoring device. I have to get the name of the university because I can't remember which one it was. The goal was to collect data for improving the protection of the boxers. I personally am ok with the headgear, but I really don't think it stops any trauma. I'm no doctor or scientist (sorry for stating the obvious), but I don't see how headgear really helps lesson the impact of a blow to the head. It's my understanding that the injurious effect of a blow is the brain jogging against the skull inside of the protective fluid that surrounds the brain after sudden movement. When the head is hit and moved violently in different directions, the skull may change directions faster and independent of the brain (because the brain is floating in the fluid). Think of a person in a falling elevator. If the elevator stops or changes direction quickly, what happens to the people inside? Would they be less injured if the elevator was wrapped in a 10 foot-thick layer of rubber? I don't think so.

I found this study that supports my two cents: Boxing Damages Brain Despite Headgear Protection - Demential pugilistica does not only occur in career boxers, as previously thought; it can also affect amateur boxers - Softpedia and this reference to it: Risking it in the ring - Los Angeles Times. I also found another that said headgear lessons the impact, but it was done in conjunction with USAB, so what else would you expect. It's funny that every study or opinion that says there isn't significant injury comes from a person or group affiliated with boxing with the exception of the BMA that produced this Amateur boxing and risk of chronic traumatic brain injury: systematic review of observational studies -- Loosemore et al., 10.1136/bmj.39342.690220.55 -- BMJ which concluded that there is no strong evidence to associate chronic traumatic brain injury with amateur boxing.

There's no doubt we are involved in a very dangerous sport, but so is football, soccer and cheerleading. I for one am all for any improvement made in the rules to help protect boxers. Unfortunately and fortunately for some - most of that responsibility falls on the coaches. To me nothing is more important than protecting boxers - mine and others.

I did find it interesting though how other sports compare, but boxing is at the top of the list per 1,000 Naysi Sport Scene: Sports Injuries Documented but it is the hardest sport ESPN.com: Page 2 - Sport Skills Difficulty Rankings

Nice research, mate

[Taeth]

Once again injuries in other sports or not done to the head, and the brain being one of the few parts in the body with no nerve endings doesn't feel anything, so a boxer is less likely to know they have brain trauma, then a basketball player knows they have a sprained ankle or bad knees.

As for the example of the rubber around the elevator, of course it would lesson the blow if you had the rubber around hte elevator, the potential energy convert into kinetic energy due to gravity as the elevator goes down, with the rubber around the outside a lot of that kinetic energy is absorbed into the elastic energy of the rubber.

Its like dropping an egg in a box onto a foam mat, or onto hard ground. When its dropped onto hard ground, there is nothing else that absorbs the blow, and the egg breaks, but when you drop on the foam, even though the egg is moving independently of the box, it is far less likely to break because of the absorbtion of the foam that neutralizes the normal force that is otherwise placed on the egg by the floor.

Another example is a car, the cars nowadays crumple more easily than cars back in the day, and wearing a helmet and using sparring gloves is like using a modern day car, the glove has extra padding which acts like rubber and absorbs part of the power, and the helmet isn't made of metal, it absorbs part of the blow, if this weren't so people would go down as often as they do in a pro fight, but they don't because the head trauma is lessened. You can argue that won't help them in the long run, but per punch its much less damage being done to the head.

There is also the nature of amateur boxing which is more like point sparring in that boxers only need to land cleanly on their opponent opposed to landing hard. Most boxers in the amateurs if not all boxers tend to not follow through as much in an amateur fight because they would rather get their hands back into defensive position to avoid being counter punched more so than in the pros. Also as soon as a fighter looks hurt in the amateurs usually a standing 8 count is called whereas in boxing they will allow you to get hit the point you go down or you can't defend yourself. This is the main argument why MMA is safer for you because, your either stopped or your in good enough shape to continue, only in boxing are you allowed to recover and keep going, its then that you do the most damage to your brain.