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The Best Mexican Warriors Of All Time | Bleacher Report
This list is incomplete without JMM. Where do you think will his rightful place be on this list?
Nudging El Terrible at 5? Or just include him in the list, make it 6 rather than 5.
As for me... as high as No. 2, behind only JCC Sr? What say you, fightfans?
Lopez should be second
Yeah, one fine argument for an undefeated fighter, in Lopez, with a record of just one draw and 51 big wins in 52 fights!Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
If he wasn't a little guy (during those times below middle/welterweight, was hardly any coverage) press would have been all over him eclipsing the 49 of the Rock!
should be more than five
This is a real tough call for me. IMO the Morales/Barrera/Pacquio/Marquez rivalry matches the fab 4 for competitiveness and then some. All great fighters. Morales seems to get the short end of the stick, but he was awesome in the first PAC fight. I imagine he was for the first MAB fight too. Did all those wars wear Morales down for the rematches? They all had tons of experience. Who's better? I can't say.
Ricardo Lopez was a master boxer i've seen quite alot of his fights, but he also had a warrior like instinct like JCC. Check out his 2nd fight with Rosendo Alvarez, he had 3 different cuts on his face. He looked like a bloody mess but he still came through unbelievable heart shown there.Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrusYeah, one fine argument for an undefeated fighter, in Lopez, with a record of just one draw and 51 big wins in 52 fights!Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
If he wasn't a little guy (during those times below middle/welterweight, was hardly any coverage) press would have been all over him eclipsing the 49 of the Rock!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
No way, He was a great little fighter, but didn't have close to the opposition Barrera had.
Nor was he as good as Salvador Sanchez who was absolutely amazing, just watched his KO victory over Azumah Nelson, he would have been something special and true all round fighter like Hagler.
For Lopez' case, going undefeated for a whole career, has gotta account for something...
Sanchez died so young, many fights yeah, but was not tested late in his career.
Marquez is 35 yers old, and still getting it done with the best of them! IMO. Thing to ponder...
Salvador Sanchez was like 23 when he died, but he had already beaten Danny LopezX2, Ruben Castillo, Wilfredo Gomez, and Azumah Nelson, he might not have the longest legacy, but he was 18 when he lost a split decision.
Ricardo Finito Lopez was a great fighter, but he didn't really fight anyone special, and the best guy he fought put up a really good fight in Alvarez.
Marquez is for sure in the top 10, but I don't think you can put him in the top 5 simply because he hasn't foughten that many big names, I think he's of equal skill to Barrera and Morales, but as of now he hasn't reached the pinnacle quite the same way they did, I mean they worth both in the top 10 p4p for how long? Its unforunate because he is likely as GOOD as any mexican that has ever fought, and definitely would be competitive with almost anyone p4p in the history of the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
It's very difficult to put together a top 5 list for Mexican fighters as there were and are so many, I don't know if Olivares and Zarate can make a claim?
One thing I have started to asses is where Barrera and Morales should be in comparison against each other. Before I just followed suit I think. but now I'm thinking Morlaes should rank higher than Barrera. I know he is 1-2 against Barrera but if you look back at the complete list of opponents they fought I believe Morales fought and beat better level of competition and in my opinion there are more WOW factors in Morales's record.
As for JM Marquez, yes he is not getting the credit he deserves. This gives me an idea I'm not sure if this has been posted before (probabley has) what would have happened if Marquez had fought Morales. yoiu just know with these two it would have been a great fight and would have ended up being a trilogy.
Lopez was a fantastic fighter but you can question the level of opposition, maybe it was the divison, I don't know.
Heres my top Mexican Fighters:
1. JCC
2. 'Finito' Lopez
3. Olivares
4. Sanchez
5. Roman
6. Erik
7. JMM
8. Marco
9. Pintor
10. Zarate
Honors: Saldivar, Zaragoza, Rafa, Canto & "Chiquita" Gonzalez.
Old Timers: Kid Azteca, Juan Zurita, Raul Macias & Baby Arizmendi.
Says everything that -opps-Sanchez is, rightfully so high up.Considering how he was cut short in life.23....23 just think about that,so much further to go?
Overall and IMO...I just have to find a spot for JMM.Clearly has flown under the radar for majority of career up until recently but is one of best technicians Ive ever seen in the ring hands down.Lack of "the biggie" and bumps with Norwood when it came his way.I'm juggling Marquez/Morales.I do believe JMM better skilled,Morales was undeniable but he burned at both ends,longevity not his strong suit.All time and p4p lists always cause headaches.
Good list, as I mentioned before I would rank Morales higher than Barrera, as well, just out of interest what are your reasons for this?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Also Ramirez wasn't bad.
I can't lie, there's days where I feel MAB should be ranked higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by The WindGood list, as I mentioned before I would rank Morales higher than Barrera, as well, just out of interest what are your reasons for this?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Also Ramirez wasn't bad.
Then theres days where I feel Erik is higher.
For me it has to do with I'm an Erik fan and he's my all time fav. Bantamweight I think he was better all around then MAB.
I couldn't argue with someone who had MAB ahead of Erik it's just one of those things were theres no right or wrong...
I loved Ruben Olivares at Bantam ,at his best before the white powder got Him. He was special, Had it all.
Definitely the list should at least be 8-10, considering how many of them are almost equal in skill at 4-7, ...how closely bunched up they are in the middle of the list. Sometimes it just boils down to personal preference for style, endurance and the like, ...trivial advantage one has over the other. That is how finely separated the list is after JCC Sr., SS, maybe MAB and EM.
Salvador Sanchez es mejores!!
The alcohol got him 1st then the powder came after that regardless Ruben was phenomenal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
Before JCC there was "El Puas" Olivares, Mexicos most adored champion.
Lopez is hurt by the fact that he fought in Boxing's smallest division. Which is the most ignored division. But just cuz a lot people don't know the fighters doesn't mean there not good. Alvarez, Sorjaturong and Grigsby were outstanding fighters. Several others were very good. Lopez was a great fighter. He had great skills. And he also had great heart. A lot of people don't know that the second fight with Alvarez really shouldn't of happened. Alvarez came in over weight. But Lopez was still bothered by the draw in there first fight. So he said "who cares" we still fighting. He got the SD win over the bigger Alvarez in a great fightQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Sanchez was a great fighter. No denying that. But the fact that he died early I think has elevated his status more than it should. He had some great wins. But there easy to pick at. Lopez I think was a one-dimensional fighter. He was good. But he was no where near great. Gomez was great. But he fought Sanchez above his best weight. He was the smaller fighter. Nelson put up a great effort. But come now. That was a pre-prime Nelson. He was still a little green. Before Sanchez died there was talk of him facing Alexis Arguello. A fight I think he would of lost.
Factor every thing in and I rate Lopez over Sanchez
This is a tough tough list to make.
I think majority of the poeple will put JCC at number 1, right?
I really can't agree to that. I really think in Sanchez short career he had accomplish so much more then JCC. However in Sanchez case, who knows what would of happen if he had fought past 23. Boxing is unpredictable and it may be unlikely but what if he would go downhill from there if he had been able to continue his career. Lopez maybe the most skilled p4p fighter we ever saw, but his resume is suspect. He just didn't have competition, unlike the other great. Having said these I would put Sanchez over both JCC and Lopez becuase he really showed what he can do in the ring. We can wonder what if this what if that but going with what happen inside the sqaured circle, Sanchez won gigantic fights and was 23. As I mentioned earlier what if he goes downhilll from there if he had been able to continue his career. Well what if he continued to excell! My reason for putting Sanchez above the two is simple: he whoop great figthers in a young age. He was that good! The hundred win of JCC dont impress me, personally to me JCC is like 34-5 not counting part time boxers.
I really can't put a list together but the next three i want to discuss is Marco, Eric and JMM. aww damn I just got a headache! :-\
Forget it, I aint gonna lie this is just a tough list to make and I really dont have the time to put it together. These guys are so close anyways that nobody can really be wrong or right in making their list.
Great post also another thing about Azumah Nelson, i heard he only had 2 weeks to prepare for Salvador Sanchez. Im not sure how true that is but thats what i heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseLopez is hurt by the fact that he fought in Boxing's smallest division. Which is the most ignored division. But just cuz a lot people don't know the fighters doesn't mean there not good. Alvarez, Sorjaturong and Grigsby were outstanding fighters. Several others were very good. Lopez was a great fighter. He had great skills. And he also had great heart. A lot of people don't know that the second fight with Alvarez really shouldn't of happened. Alvarez came in over weight. But Lopez was still bothered by the draw in there first fight. So he said "who cares" we still fighting. He got the SD win over the bigger Alvarez in a great fightQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Sanchez was a great fighter. No denying that. But the fact that he died early I think has elevated his status more than it should. He had some great wins. But there easy to pick at. Lopez I think was a one-dimensional fighter. He was good. But he was no where near great. Gomez was great. But he fought Sanchez above his best weight. He was the smaller fighter. Nelson put up a great effort. But come now. That was a pre-prime Nelson. He was still a little green. Before Sanchez died there was talk of him facing Alexis Arguello. A fight I think he would of lost.
Factor every thing in and I rate Lopez over Sanchez
I also agree about Danny Lopez i've seen quite a few of his fights, very good exciting fighter with a big punch. But i do feel he was very hittable and he reminded me of Julian Jackson at times.
Because often alot of his fights were tough fights, and some of the opponents he struggled against he really shouldn't of. But he was still one hell of a fighter.
And it was a big win for Salvador Sanchez considering he was unknown at that time, and it was billed as "Little Red vs Little Unknown" or something like that.
As for Ricardo Lopez just an amazing fighter what more can you say about him ? just excellent in every attribute. Doesn't really have a weakness, and his combinations were a thing of beauty.
I noticed in the rematch with Rosendo Alvarez, he was throwing 3 and 4 punch combinations. Something which he didn't really do in there 1st meeting.
But you could just see how much desire he had in that fight, 3 cuts on his face he looked a bloody mess. But yet he ignored that an continued to fight a masterful fight.
And the amazing thing is after that brutal war you would of expected him to retire. But he actually moved up a weightclass won the title there and made a few defenses before he retired.
Amazing fighter im not quite sure how many fights i've seen of his, i think its round about 14 or 15. And every fight i've seen of his he has looked brilliant. And his balance and power are some of the things that really stand out to me, despite his obvious boxing skills.
IMO the best skilled Mexican fighter of all time, and one of the best fighters of all time. If only the lower weightclasses had more attention he would of been as famous as JCC.
Your out of you mind homeboy. Sanchez over Chavez is like Tyson says "Ludicrous". I do agree with you in the fact that you shouldn't make a list of top 10 Mexicans. It is to tough for you. What you need to do is make a top 10 list of Filp fighters. I don't think I ever seen one. I'll help you outQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
1, Pancho Villa
2, Flash Elorde
3, Manny Pacquiao
4, Ceferino Garcia
5, Rene Barrientos
Not sure about the rest. You fill it out. Luisto Espinosa has to be up there. But he's not top 5. Maybe 7 or 8.
I saw a number of Salvador Sanchez fights, on TV as a young boxing fan in the '70's.
I rooted for Danny "Little Red" Lopez on both times they clashed. I cannot describe how dejected I was, that on both occasions, my guy, Little Red was “destroyed”. I couldn't even pick which one hurt more; Little Red, beaten as defending the Championship, or the one trying to reclaim it. Both fights were brutal, stoppages.
Salvador Sanchez can just snap the energy out of you. I did not even know one bit about this youngster prior to the fight, but later felt resentful that he was that good. He gave Lopez a boxing lesson! This was a complete role reversal! Quite a surprise!
Saw the Benitez fight couldn’t believe it turned one-sided as Benitez had an impeccable record then, I believe. Of course I was so young I did not know that going up in weight class was such a handicap. I gave too much stock on Wilfred’s high knockout ratio!
Nelson as a young guy (unknown) gave Sanchez fits early on as he had raw, two-fisted power on those young baby dynamites. And he was a very courageous fighter! Plus he was jumpy, and all over. He got brutally stopped though.
The best one from memory was the Juan La Porte fight. La Porte was one of the guys back then that issues demolition jobs one after another. So it was not altogether surprising that it was a brutal, start to finish boxing match.
I couldn’t root for Sanchez, regardless, because of his wins against Little Red. That was the boy in me! Each time I rooted against him, he wins BIG! It was sad when he left us, and just as I was warming up to him after the La Porte fight.
I can describe Salvador Sanchez style as that of a JMM, minus the reverse gear. Salvador will counter with the very best. Then add the Margarito forward-only engine, relaxed, always active, slow but always in a forward motion, and in your face! With a granite chin, head movement that is hard to hit, and unbelievable work rate, Sanchez seemingly was unbeatable in that era.
The only thing that I have not given much thought is his relative short career, compared with the others on the list whom have carried their ring savvy past prime but still churned great fights time and again.
I believe that Salvador Sanchez served as the prototype of great Mexican fighters. Great fundamentals, balance, boxing skills, and the spirit to overcome, makes them great ring warriors!
You mean GomezQuote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
I've seen both of them, and I like Salvador more, I think p4p he would beat Lopez. You can arguements anyway you want, but IMO he was a superior version of JCC who could do more in the ring. I strongly disagree about Lopez's opponents, I've seen a few of his fights like the ones against Alvarez, and they were definitely good fighters, but they weren't great by any stretch of the imagination. Lopez was a really good fighter, but he didn't have the opposition anyone else in the top 10 had, I think him being undefeated makes people overrate him, they tend to forget about the comparatively low opposition he had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseLopez is hurt by the fact that he fought in Boxing's smallest division. Which is the most ignored division. But just cuz a lot people don't know the fighters doesn't mean there not good. Alvarez, Sorjaturong and Grigsby were outstanding fighters. Several others were very good. Lopez was a great fighter. He had great skills. And he also had great heart. A lot of people don't know that the second fight with Alvarez really shouldn't of happened. Alvarez came in over weight. But Lopez was still bothered by the draw in there first fight. So he said "who cares" we still fighting. He got the SD win over the bigger Alvarez in a great fightQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Sanchez was a great fighter. No denying that. But the fact that he died early I think has elevated his status more than it should. He had some great wins. But there easy to pick at. Lopez I think was a one-dimensional fighter. He was good. But he was no where near great. Gomez was great. But he fought Sanchez above his best weight. He was the smaller fighter. Nelson put up a great effort. But come now. That was a pre-prime Nelson. He was still a little green. Before Sanchez died there was talk of him facing Alexis Arguello. A fight I think he would of lost.
Factor every thing in and I rate Lopez over Sanchez
In fact I would place JMM, Barrera and Morrales probably in front of him. They all have accomplished so much, and especially JMM doesnt' deserve the shadow that was cast by Barrera or Morales on him, I think Barrera still deserves to be in first place though, he could fight the most ways, he became an equal boxer with JMM, and he was the best brawler out of the three. Him and JMM had probably the fastest hands of all the great mexican boxers IMO.
When Alan Rudkin Boxed Ruben, Bobby Neil told me He went to see Rubin work out. Bobby was Alans Manager, He sat down in the gym and Rubin came over and said, You come to look. Bobby replied yes Ruben was sparring with the World Lightweight Champ Gonzales. In the 2nd round Olivares sparked Gonzales, came over to Bobby and said you seen enougth. I asked Bobby what His thoughts were His reply was Oh Fucking Hell what have we got Here ;D
No shit...Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
Ruben was sparked out Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez in sparring...
Wow and now that I'm thinking here Ruben TKO'd Rudkin in 2.
Scrap I love reading your insight on these things thanks. :)
Yeah Wilfredo Gomez. Sorry.