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In a recent interview with Esquire, Evander Holyfield made these following statements:
"Jesse Owens couldn't even make the Olympic team today. It's the same with boxing. I always just look at Joe Louis, I say, You know what, he kind of slow. I'd tear him up.
People say, Joe Louis had twenty-five consecutive wins as a champion. That's because they didn't have videotape. You couldn't pick up his style unless you was in there with him."
Didnt think Evander was like that dissing an ATG.
Not sure he wasn't telling the truth though, I don't think the minature heavyweights of the turn of the century or up until the 60's would have done very well against LIston and on. There are obviously a few like Joe Louis and Jack Johnson that might have held their own, but I don't see them beating guys like Lewis, Ali, Frazier, Liston, Foreman, Holyfield, Prime Tyson, Bowe, etc, etc. I think the sport has evolved too much stylistically, and in size.
Evander Holyfield is acting like an idiot does he not realize the garbage running tracks, and the garbage running shoes runners had back in those days ? and they certainly didn't have dietitians, and all the supplements runners have to today. Plus steroids which most runners have now and you better believe it.Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
As for the Joe Louis comment again just pure hating right there, Evander Holyfield was a very good fighter but he also had his faults. He got wobbled badly against B level fighters like Alex Stewart, Bert Cooper.
He almost lost to an ancient Larry Holmes losing the last 3 rounds, and just eeking out a decision by 7-5. He also received a very tough fight against Michael Dokes who was years past his best. And he lost soundly to Riddick Bowe in his prime.
I always respected Evander Holyfield but im starting to dislike him, in the last few years. With all these steroid rumours, 9 illegitimate kids, and him keep fighting well past his best trying to convince us and himself he has something left.
Which he doesn't since 2000s his record is just ridiculous, 1-1-1 John Ruiz, 0-1 against a former Middleweight James Toney, 0-1 Chris Byrd, 0-1 Larry Donald, 0-1 Sultan Ibragimov, 0-1 Nikolai Valuev.
Now IMO he did deserve the win against Nikolai Valuev no question, but just have a look at that record its ridiculous his best win since 2000s is against Hasim Rahman, and even that was on a headbutt.
6-6-1 is his exact record since 2000s why doesn't he just quit ? im starting to lose the respect i used to have for him, and these comments right here don't sound like the Evander Holyfield i used to look up to.
As for the Joe Louis comment again just pure hating right there, Evander Holyfield was a very good fighter but he also had his faults. He got wobbled badly against B level fighters like Alex Stewart, Bert Cooper.
True, but the fact that he got up and won speaks worlds about him.
Tons of ATGs have been hurt or dropped by mediocre opponents. Even Louis, he nearly got KO'd by that fat blob Tony Galento.
Holyfield is delusional, Louis is naturally bigger than him, Holyfield need to train with Lee Hainey and take growth hormone to get to heavy.
Same with the runners, they ALL take steroids or another performance enhancer to compete, Owens didnt.
Holyfield is just a bitter old diick, he resents that Mike Tyson is still better known and loved than he is and that Lewis took his glory away.
It is interesting to point out that Jesse Owens was not at all the top dog in the US at the time, apparently there was another guy who was clearly better, but he was injured and missed the Olympics. Forget his name though.
Back to the Louis thing, give him what Holyfield had to use, and it would be a different story. Surely Holyfield knows this.
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Originally Posted by ross
YOu can't assume all athletes take Steriods. Guys like Usain Bolt would beat any sprinter in any generation with or without modern techniques.
Louis wasn't that big, he was shorter than Holyfield, and weighed less than Holyfield did at heavy, we don't know how long Holyfield allegedly took steriods. If anything they were about the same size, but Holyfield is used to fighting really good fighters like Bowe, Lewis, Foreman who were way bigger than him.
Holyfield was taller and heavier than Louis, I don't see how you say he was smaller. The difference is that when Holyfield was a heavyweight there guys like Tyson, Lewis, Bowe who were way bigger than him, and still athletic, fast, and hit hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I have to defend Evander Holyfield here it is unfair Mike Tyson is more well known and loved. Mike Tyson beat alot of stiffs and mostly everytime he stepped up and fought very good/great fighter he lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Mike Tyson was lucky he come along at that right time when boxing needed a star. And of course he had a massive punch which helped to promote him.
I enjoy watching Mike Tyson fights i watched a whole heap of them last week, but if you actually study up on his opposition. Its a pretty poor list of fighters, except for an old Larry Holmes, Light Heavyweight Michael Spinks.
And Evander Holyfield was very unlucky that Buster Douglas upset Mike Tyson, and he didn't get his shot. Because i think Mike Tyson was far enough gone at that time that Evander Holyfield could of took him.
And despite Evander Holyfield being a massive underdog against Mike Tyson in 1996, and only 1 sportwriter out of 42 picking Evander Holyfield. He still doesn't get credit for fighting a fine fight and whooping Mike Tyson which is very unfair. I think boxing fans are well too kind to Mike Tyson and make a ton of excuses for him.
Even if there may be some truth in what you're saying... I think it's pretty classless of Holyfield to be spouting off on previous champions, especially dead ones. Evander should worry about other things, such as hanging up his gloves for good before someone hurts him beyond the point of no return.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Holyfield is my all time favourite HW. But he gets eaten alive by Louis.
Well he has a point but i dont know why he would say somthing like that but lets get real how do you think he would do with the competion that Evander Holyfeild dealed with i mean have you seen some of the fighters Louis fought against for the defences they were not really fighters there is a reason the called it bum of the month club because they were bums. Holyfeild beat Tyson, Bowie, Holmes, Foreman and Moorer all good heavyweights and even in his late 30's gave Lewis in the rematch a good fight i think his age and heart condtion have effected him but he still has fought through it and i could see Holyfeild beating Louis i think Holyfeild was just as good if he were in that era could of done the same thing.
When Evan Fields started out his pro career he weighed less than Louis did at his debut.
Evan took growth hormone to get bigger.
Fields is jealous of every other fighter held in higher regard than himself (much like Holmes) and no matter what anyone says alot of people would still make a prime Holyfield an underdog against a prime Tyson, a prime Tyson wiped the floor with Holmes, a prime Holyfield struggled with Tysons older left overs.;D
Here's the esquire article.
Evander Holyfield Biography - Quotes from Evander Holyfield - Esquire
The 42 year old version of Larry Holmes was better than the 38 year old version, who was ring rusty and only had a few weeks to train for Mike Tyson. And a prime Larry Holmes would of beat a prime Mike Tyson, even a ring rusty shot Larry Holmes was holding his own against Mike Tyson until he got caught.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Tyson was playing with Holmes and biding his time. Prime Tyson would have beaten Holyfield and so could Joe Louis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonito DonaireThe 42 year old version of Larry Holmes was better than the 38 year old version, who was ring rusty and only had a few weeks to train for Mike Tyson. And a prime Larry Holmes would of beat a prime Mike Tyson, even a ring rusty shot Larry Holmes was holding his own against Mike Tyson until he got caught.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
It happens. Galento and Braddock weren't better. They were C level. They dropped and hurt Louis. Conn a non-puncher at Light Heavyweight shook him pretty good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonito DonaireEvander Holyfield is acting like an idiot does he not realize the garbage running tracks, and the garbage running shoes runners had back in those days ? and they certainly didn't have dietitians, and all the supplements runners have to today. Plus steroids which most runners have now and you better believe it.Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
As for the Joe Louis comment again just pure hating right there, Evander Holyfield was a very good fighter but he also had his faults. He got wobbled badly against B level fighters like Alex Stewart, Bert Cooper.
He almost lost to an ancient Larry Holmes losing the last 3 rounds, and just eeking out a decision by 7-5. He also received a very tough fight against Michael Dokes who was years past his best. And he lost soundly to Riddick Bowe in his prime.
I always respected Evander Holyfield but im starting to dislike him, in the last few years. With all these steroid rumours, 9 illegitimate kids, and him keep fighting well past his best trying to convince us and himself he has something left.
Which he doesn't since 2000s his record is just ridiculous, 1-1-1 John Ruiz, 0-1 against a former Middleweight James Toney, 0-1 Chris Byrd, 0-1 Larry Donald, 0-1 Sultan Ibragimov, 0-1 Nikolai Valuev.
Now IMO he did deserve the win against Nikolai Valuev no question, but just have a look at that record its ridiculous his best win since 2000s is against Hasim Rahman, and even that was on a headbutt.
6-6-1 is his exact record since 2000s why doesn't he just quit ? im starting to lose the respect i used to have for him, and these comments right here don't sound like the Evander Holyfield i used to look up to.
I agree with Holyfield. I think he smashes Louis.
I seriously boubt that he made that comment in malice,though he does sound a bit desperate,hanging on to be relevant?Also...when the helz has he ever run track on an olympic level?Should stick to what he knows...Boxing.I hope he retires off of crappy call vs. Valuev.Time has expired,he needs to step aside.
Alot is made of holyfield and getting tagged.staggered?A heavyweight that gets wobbled,is that new to anyone?Foreman,Louis,Holmes,Dempsy,Lewis,Tyson Etc...all at one point or another have been seriously whacked and or dropped hard.All things considered I honestly thing Holyfield could take Louis,Combination punching and activity level.Louis was an all time legend,due massive respect,what the Government did to him was spineless.He deserved better!!
Joe Louis is a lot smaller than Holyfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
You can only imagine if Joe Luis would have had the growth hormone and the type of training that Holyfield had...
Michael Moorer started as a Light Heavyweight. He beat Holyfield convincingly in the 1st fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyJoe Louis is a lot smaller than Holyfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I personally think that Louis vs Holyfield would be a great fight but I do favour Louis who had a fantastic jab and a great jab caused Holyfield alot of problems for example old Larry.
Still a great fight and an arguement can be made for both - Holyfield certainly had the busy style to win the rounds.
I'm sure if Holyfield would of faced the bum of the month opponents Louis faced he would of crushed them as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
That's a good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI'm sure if Holyfield would of faced the bum of the month opponents Louis faced he would of crushed them as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
Moorer was also a converted southpaw with a double hard fast jab but that was a one point fight.Now doubt Holyfield ate jabs,I thought he was over reliant on his own vs.Holmes but his counter right/left hook were great in return if a guy left it out there.Would have been fun while it lasted.Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRobMichael Moorer started as a Light Heavyweight. He beat Holyfield convincingly in the 1st fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyJoe Louis is a lot smaller than Holyfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I personally think that Louis vs Holyfield would be a great fight but I do favour Louis who had a fantastic jab and a great jab caused Holyfield alot of problems for example old Larry.
Still a great fight and an arguement can be made for both - Holyfield certainly had the busy style to win the rounds.
Well personally I think that Louis was just too good for anyone barring Ali. Like I said earlier Holyfield is my favorite ever HW but Joe was just a beast. I don't think that a Prime Louis could KO a prime Holyfield but then again I don't think any heavy in history could have with the exception of Foreman. (I do not think that Holyfield was anywhere near his peak in Bowe III)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
For me Louis would beat all of Holyfields opponents at his peak and I know people will disagree saying that he was "too small" but to be honest there isn't that much difference in size between Louis and Holyfield and Holyfield got by fine. To me todays average HW is TOO BIG and that is what the problem with the division is. Most of them are very robotic and someone like a prime Louis, and Holyfield for that matter would have known what todays guys were going to do before they had done it and easily tagged them all night long. That is the same reason I have such high hopes for David Haye, I mean I know he is not the second coming of Ali, but he keeps his weight tight and punches like a mule. So with these benefits plus the factor he is pretty much faster than the whole division I give him a great chance to do well in the heavyweight division.
Also don't forget that Foreman and Holmes were nowhere near their primes when Holyfield beat them. And neither victories were overly impressive IMO.
Regarding Holyfields heart "problem" that was down to growth hormone, thats a problem of his own making.
Holyfield needs to shut up now, hes not relevant and doesnt create any interest in the heavys and is part of the joke that is todays heavys
.
I give the fight to Holyfield base on the fact that I think he had better chin. I think Holyfield would of took Louis punches better than Louis would of took his.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuWell personally I think that Louis was just too good for anyone barring Ali. Like I said earlier Holyfield is my favorite ever HW but Joe was just a beast. I don't think that a Prime Louis could KO a prime Holyfield but then again I don't think any heavy in history could have with the exception of Foreman. (I do not think that Holyfield was anywhere near his peak in Bowe III)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
For me Louis would beat all of Holyfields opponents at his peak and I know people will disagree saying that he was "too small" but to be honest there isn't that much difference in size between Louis and Holyfield and Holyfield got by fine. To me todays average HW is TOO BIG and that is what the problem with the division is. Most of them are very robotic and someone like a prime Louis, and Holyfield for that matter would have known what todays guys were going to do before they had done it and easily tagged them all night long. That is the same reason I have such high hopes for David Haye, I mean I know he is not the second coming of Ali, but he keeps his weight tight and punches like a mule. So with these benefits plus the factor he is pretty much faster than the whole division I give him a great chance to do well in the heavyweight division.
Well, That Confirms What I Have Suspected For Some Time Now. The Real Deal Has Dementia.
Thats a great point. I try to think that way with all fighters. What if Duran faced all Mayweathers opponents, or what if Ali faced Tysons opponents etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI'm sure if Holyfield would of faced the bum of the month opponents Louis faced he would of crushed them as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
holyfield wins throws too many punches for louis
Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Seriously what exactly is Holyfield suppose to say? "Yeah Louis would beat me ass?" "I don't deserve to be in the same ring with him?" Come on now. Holyfield is/was a great fighter. And he knows it. I see nothing wrong with his comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseQuote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Seriously what exactly is Holyfield suppose to say? "Yeah Louis would beat me ass?" "I don't deserve to be in the same ring with him?" Come on now. Holyfield is/was a great fighter. And he knows it. I see nothing wrong with his comments.
But why diss a great like Louis? What does it gain him? He should just go away into the sunset and take the Beast from Russia with him. Louis was a beloved champion in his day.
I'm just plain sick of Holyfield and his "dream." Give me a break here. What part of "it's over" doesn't he get? Part of my animus is due to the fact I hate to see great fighters screw up thier legacy by staying on too long. Same thing happened to Saad and that was sad.
It really wasn't even that much of a diss. He pretty much just said he could beat him. Yeah I agree it's time for him to go. It's been time. But he fights on for the same reason Louis fought on. He needs the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcallQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseQuote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Seriously what exactly is Holyfield suppose to say? "Yeah Louis would beat me ass?" "I don't deserve to be in the same ring with him?" Come on now. Holyfield is/was a great fighter. And he knows it. I see nothing wrong with his comments.
But why diss a great like Louis? What does it gain him? He should just go away into the sunset and take the Beast from Russia with him. Louis was a beloved champion in his day.
I'm just plain sick of Holyfield and his "dream." Give me a break here. What part of "it's over" doesn't he get? Part of my animus is due to the fact I hate to see great fighters screw up thier legacy by staying on too long. Same thing happened to Saad and that was sad.
I ignore all negative Holyfield news. That guy that fought recently is named Evander Holyfield. But that's just in name. It's not the same guy I followed and made money off by betting on him. That guy disappeared when James Toney (a former Middleweight) knocked him out. He was already shot by than. But I bought his excuses (bad shoulder against Byrd, Ruiz to much holding was the problem) even though I knew they were just that. Excuses. Cuz he was Holyfield. He earned his excuses (they long ran out by now).
Now I seen a lot of Louis fights. Read and study up on him enough to know he was a great fighter. But he was before my time. I didn't follow him. So I can't back him as much as I back Holyfield. And I don't want to back him up. Louis never made me no money like Evander did. So Evander says he can beat Louis ass. Than Evander can beat Louis ass
I have to admit I havent seen many of Joe's fights but on the flip side I think Holyfield is a top HW and would give any HW from any era a run for his money....
But we werent at the interview and we dont know how Holyfield said what he said...did he say it with a smirk or was he dead serious that he would walk through Joe????
Any top athlete has to have a big ego and confidence so he may in his heart think he could beat Joe and there is nothing wrong with that....but I find it hard to believe Holyfield would diss one of the greats.....
[QUOTE=Violent Demise;661949][quote=holmcall;661936]Perfect logic!Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Evander should take his analysis one step further, and realize that the same applies to him against guys like the Klitschkos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt really wasn't even that much of a diss. He pretty much just said he could beat him. Yeah I agree it's time for him to go. It's been time. But he fights on for the same reason Louis fought on. He needs the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcallQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
But why diss a great like Louis? What does it gain him? He should just go away into the sunset and take the Beast from Russia with him. Louis was a beloved champion in his day.
I'm just plain sick of Holyfield and his "dream." Give me a break here. What part of "it's over" doesn't he get? Part of my animus is due to the fact I hate to see great fighters screw up thier legacy by staying on too long. Same thing happened to Saad and that was sad.
I ignore all negative Holyfield news. That guy that fought recently is named Evander Holyfield. But that's just in name. It's not the same guy I followed and made money off by betting on him. That guy disappeared when James Toney (a former Middleweight) knocked him out. He was already shot by than. But I bought his excuses (bad shoulder against Byrd, Ruiz to much holding was the problem) even though I knew they were just that. Excuses. Cuz he was Holyfield. He earned his excuses (they long ran out by now).
Now I seen a lot of Louis fights. Read and study up on him enough to know he was a great fighter. But he was before my time. I didn't follow him. So I can't back him as much as I back Holyfield. And I don't want to back him up. Louis never made me no money like Evander did. So Evander says he can beat Louis ass. Than Evander can beat Louis ass
Fair enough!
It is rather difficult to get behind a fighter you never saw fight liveQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt really wasn't even that much of a diss. He pretty much just said he could beat him. Yeah I agree it's time for him to go. It's been time. But he fights on for the same reason Louis fought on. He needs the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcallQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
But why diss a great like Louis? What does it gain him? He should just go away into the sunset and take the Beast from Russia with him. Louis was a beloved champion in his day.
I'm just plain sick of Holyfield and his "dream." Give me a break here. What part of "it's over" doesn't he get? Part of my animus is due to the fact I hate to see great fighters screw up thier legacy by staying on too long. Same thing happened to Saad and that was sad.
I ignore all negative Holyfield news. That guy that fought recently is named Evander Holyfield. But that's just in name. It's not the same guy I followed and made money off by betting on him. That guy disappeared when James Toney (a former Middleweight) knocked him out. He was already shot by than. But I bought his excuses (bad shoulder against Byrd, Ruiz to much holding was the problem) even though I knew they were just that. Excuses. Cuz he was Holyfield. He earned his excuses (they long ran out by now).
Now I seen a lot of Louis fights. Read and study up on him enough to know he was a great fighter. But he was before my time. I didn't follow him. So I can't back him as much as I back Holyfield. And I don't want to back him up. Louis never made me no money like Evander did. So Evander says he can beat Louis ass. Than Evander can beat Louis ass
Holyfield got hit by too many punches to take Louis....Joe Louis was a BAAAAAD man and Holyfield even comparing himself to Joe makes me think it's waaaaaaay past time to hang them up, it's delusional. Joe Louis would whip his ass! Joe Louis is the greatest of all-time!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyBacon