Miranda says he wants Taylor. I say Edison gets his ass kicked though. What do you guys think?
Miranda wants Taylor NOW! | Fightnews
Printable View
Miranda says he wants Taylor. I say Edison gets his ass kicked though. What do you guys think?
Miranda wants Taylor NOW! | Fightnews
I think this would be a great fight. I think it is Taylor's fight unless he get's stupid and tries to brawl with Miranda. Like he did against Kelly in their first fight.
I agree it would be a great fight. I think that Taylor Vs Pavlik I was one of the best fights I've seen at middleweight for quite some time and to be totally honest I actually think Taylor is the better of the two it was just he got caught off one of the hardest punchers p4p in the world and then in the second fight was too frightened to take a risk!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
Well if it weren't for that great chin of Kelly's Jermain would have won. Miranda doesn't have Kelly's chin or heart. Taylor smashes him on his way to his first KO in years.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
we've heard this before.. before Kelly beat the piss out of Miranda and Kelly got to fight him instead.
If Taylor fights like he did in Taylor/Pavlik II then Miranda has a very slight chance in winning..
Jermain's defense was great, and he was at the top of his game, i think.. Taylor's chin is pretty decent.. he took a lot of solid punches from Kelly before he was KO'd..
Miranda would be a live underdog in a fight with Taylor. It is doubtful Taylor can hurt Miranda. In addition, Taylor has a tendancy to keep his arms low, and against Miranda that may be his undoing. Two fighters have beat Miranda: Abraham, who has solid defense, and Pavlik who has average defense but compensates with tremendous power.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI agree it would be a great fight. I think that Taylor Vs Pavlik I was one of the best fights I've seen at middleweight for quite some time and to be totally honest I actually think Taylor is the better of the two it was just he got caught off one of the hardest punchers p4p in the world and then in the second fight was too frightened to take a risk!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
And Taylor is better than Pavlik? What is a better way to show you are better than an opponent than by beating him twice? Explain.
Is it me or is everyone and their mom's gunning for a fight with Taylor? Bhop. Green. Miranda. Froch. Kessler.
Dude. Taylor can definitely hurt Miranda. Miranda has no chin worth mentioning. Taylor has great power, and a solid jab. He will be world champ again. But I think he would beat all of the guys you mentioned with relative ease, except for Kessler, who would give him a good run and may edge a decision out of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratMiranda would be a live underdog in a fight with Taylor. It is doubtful Taylor can hurt Miranda. In addition, Taylor has a tendancy to keep his arms low, and against Miranda that may be his undoing. Two fighters have beat Miranda: Abraham, who has solid defense, and Pavlik who has average defense but compensates with tremendous power.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI agree it would be a great fight. I think that Taylor Vs Pavlik I was one of the best fights I've seen at middleweight for quite some time and to be totally honest I actually think Taylor is the better of the two it was just he got caught off one of the hardest punchers p4p in the world and then in the second fight was too frightened to take a risk!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
And Taylor is better than Pavlik? What is a better way to show you are better than an opponent than by beating him twice? Explain.
Is it me or is everyone and their mom's gunning for a fight with Taylor? Bhop. Green. Miranda. Froch. Kessler.
I know my logic in saying I think Talyor is better seems off. It's hard to expalin what I mean but here goes!Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratMiranda would be a live underdog in a fight with Taylor. It is doubtful Taylor can hurt Miranda. In addition, Taylor has a tendancy to keep his arms low, and against Miranda that may be his undoing. Two fighters have beat Miranda: Abraham, who has solid defense, and Pavlik who has average defense but compensates with tremendous power.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI agree it would be a great fight. I think that Taylor Vs Pavlik I was one of the best fights I've seen at middleweight for quite some time and to be totally honest I actually think Taylor is the better of the two it was just he got caught off one of the hardest punchers p4p in the world and then in the second fight was too frightened to take a risk!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
And Taylor is better than Pavlik? What is a better way to show you are better than an opponent than by beating him twice? Explain.
Is it me or is everyone and their mom's gunning for a fight with Taylor? Bhop. Green. Miranda. Froch. Kessler.
Taylor in the first fight was winning early on and was on verge of KOing Kelly until he gassed. He then went on to get hurt and stopped off Kelly and that was detrimental to Taylor's mindset when it came to fighting Kelly.
But for me if you were to pit them both against some of the great middleweight champs from history Taylor would have a better time. Just look at their fights with B-Hop, Taylor beat him twice and Pavlik got schooled!
agreed..Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI know my logic in saying I think Talyor is better seems off. It's hard to expalin what I mean but here goes!Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratMiranda would be a live underdog in a fight with Taylor. It is doubtful Taylor can hurt Miranda. In addition, Taylor has a tendancy to keep his arms low, and against Miranda that may be his undoing. Two fighters have beat Miranda: Abraham, who has solid defense, and Pavlik who has average defense but compensates with tremendous power.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
And Taylor is better than Pavlik? What is a better way to show you are better than an opponent than by beating him twice? Explain.
Is it me or is everyone and their mom's gunning for a fight with Taylor? Bhop. Green. Miranda. Froch. Kessler.
Taylor in the first fight was winning early on and was on verge of KOing Kelly until he gassed. He then went on to get hurt and stopped off Kelly and that was detrimental to Taylor's mindset when it came to fighting Kelly.
But for me if you were to pit them both against some of the great middleweight champs from history Taylor would have a better time. Just look at their fights with B-Hop, Taylor beat him twice and Pavlik got schooled!
Taylor had the power to wobble Kelly, and he really wobbled him with one punch to the top of Kelly's head.. Kelly took some straight shots from Miranda and stayed pretty much stable throughout the whole fight.. This shows Taylor does have power, and we've seen it in the past. Look at Winky's face after the Taylor fight..
Taylor gassed in the Pavlik fight, but he looked good in the first 4-5 rounds, besides getting hit with a few bombs.. He realized this and worked on his defense HEAVILY in preparing for the second fight.. It was the fact that the pace of the fight was intense that he gassed towards the end and couldn't win the last few rounds to take the victory..
Kessler would be Taylor's hardest opponent out of those guys.. Two guys with great jabs and big right hands.. except Kesslers right hand is much more straight and he would probably connect when Taylor opened up to throw.
I take that partially back. Miranda doesn't have a great chin.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFoldsDude. Taylor can definitely hurt Miranda. Miranda has no chin worth mentioning. Taylor has great power, and a solid jab. He will be world champ again. But I think he would beat all of the guys you mentioned with relative ease, except for Kessler, who would give him a good run and may edge a decision out of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratMiranda would be a live underdog in a fight with Taylor. It is doubtful Taylor can hurt Miranda. In addition, Taylor has a tendancy to keep his arms low, and against Miranda that may be his undoing. Two fighters have beat Miranda: Abraham, who has solid defense, and Pavlik who has average defense but compensates with tremendous power.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
And Taylor is better than Pavlik? What is a better way to show you are better than an opponent than by beating him twice? Explain.
Is it me or is everyone and their mom's gunning for a fight with Taylor? Bhop. Green. Miranda. Froch. Kessler.
Miranda has been knocked out by strong guys with big punches: Pavlik and Abraham. Who else put him on the floor? Allen Green did, but Miranda got up and went on to win the fight.
Does Jermain have great power? The last time he knocked out anyone was in 2005. He hasn't knocked out a name opponent ever. Please explain.
I am a huge Jermain fan. Don't get me wrong. In my books, he beats Froch easily and he probably beats Bute in a tough fight. But, he wins because he is fast and can box, not because he has power.
I think he has decent power. Don't get me wrong he's no Julian Jackson but he can punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI take that partially back. Miranda doesn't have a great chin.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFoldsDude. Taylor can definitely hurt Miranda. Miranda has no chin worth mentioning. Taylor has great power, and a solid jab. He will be world champ again. But I think he would beat all of the guys you mentioned with relative ease, except for Kessler, who would give him a good run and may edge a decision out of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Miranda has been knocked out by strong guys with big punches: Pavlik and Abraham. Who else put him on the floor? Allen Green did, but Miranda got up and went on to win the fight.
Does Jermain have great power? The last time he knocked out anyone was in 2005. He hasn't knocked out a name opponent ever. Please explain.
I am a huge Jermain fan. Don't get me wrong. In my books, he beats Froch easily and he probably beats Bute in a tough fight. But, he wins because he is fast and can box, not because he has power.
Miranda has guts, and I hope he wins.
I totally agree. Taylor's jab is such a great tool. Follow that up with his right hand behind it Taylor should have this fight. I think Jermain knows what happens when you stand in front of a bomber, at least I think he does now...Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
I think the shots that Pavlik landed on Taylor in the first fight would've knocked out just about anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by RP33
I used to think Miranda was a bit of a trash talker but after his fight with Abraham he seemed to be humbled. Oddly enough, that loss and his reaction got me to like him. Miranda def wants the biggest fights he can get, gotta respect him for that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Taylor needs big fights. Miranda while better than Carl Fraud is still a step backwards. I gave Taylor a pass when he fought Lacy cuz it was his fight at 168. But that's it. I want top see him fight Bute or Kessler.
I would like to see Kessler fighting anyone worth fighting. Last I heard he was fighting another no name countryman next. I was beginning to like him a while back but now he's starting to piss me off...Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Miranda should want to learn how to box first. Ko'ing chumps on espn is great and all and i like edison but damn till he learns how to box these top guys will continue to beat his ass he'll ko someone on espn and the cycle will repeat...
I want to see that as well, but you can't make those guys fight him. Bute has shown little inclination to getting in the ring with the top tier 168lbers, and Kessler, I believe, is fighting Mads Larsen, which apparently is a huge fight in Denmark, in order to get out of the Paille contract (because he wants the big fights, but Paille is content to play Warren Jr., keeping Kessler in low-risk fights and raking in the money domestically).Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I agree but damn was the KO on Banks a thing of beauty...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI think he has decent power. Don't get me wrong he's no Julian Jackson but he can punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI take that partially back. Miranda doesn't have a great chin.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFolds
Miranda has been knocked out by strong guys with big punches: Pavlik and Abraham. Who else put him on the floor? Allen Green did, but Miranda got up and went on to win the fight.
Does Jermain have great power? The last time he knocked out anyone was in 2005. He hasn't knocked out a name opponent ever. Please explain.
I am a huge Jermain fan. Don't get me wrong. In my books, he beats Froch easily and he probably beats Bute in a tough fight. But, he wins because he is fast and can box, not because he has power.
He couldn't knock OUma out.
Not an easy thing to do considering Ouma has only been stopped once. And that was like 10 years agoQuote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxerQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI think he has decent power. Don't get me wrong he's no Julian Jackson but he can punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
He couldn't knock OUma out.
He couldn't knock SPinks out either. Not that he hit him once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseNot an easy thing to do considering Ouma has only been stopped once. And that was like 10 years agoQuote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxerQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
He couldn't knock OUma out.
Spinks is even harder than Ouma to knock out.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxerHe couldn't knock SPinks out either. Not that he hit him once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseNot an easy thing to do considering Ouma has only been stopped once. And that was like 10 years agoQuote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseNot an easy thing to do considering Ouma has only been stopped once. And that was like 10 years agoQuote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxerQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
He couldn't knock OUma out.
Yeah I'm bad. I thought that OUma got stopped on telefutura or something not to long ago. I dont know who the hell I was thinking of ???
ALl I have to say is that I think Taylor's power was really overrated for quite awhile.
lots of props to Miranda for wanting to take on the best opposition, but honestly after each loss he starts looking a lot more like Mayorga
The thing with Miranda is that if he took time to polish his boxing skills a bit like Pavlik has done, he could be a major player in boxing! Damn he is already up there as p4p one of the hardest punchers in the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI know my logic in saying I think Talyor is better seems off. It's hard to expalin what I mean but here goes!Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratMiranda would be a live underdog in a fight with Taylor. It is doubtful Taylor can hurt Miranda. In addition, Taylor has a tendancy to keep his arms low, and against Miranda that may be his undoing. Two fighters have beat Miranda: Abraham, who has solid defense, and Pavlik who has average defense but compensates with tremendous power.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
And Taylor is better than Pavlik? What is a better way to show you are better than an opponent than by beating him twice? Explain.
Is it me or is everyone and their mom's gunning for a fight with Taylor? Bhop. Green. Miranda. Froch. Kessler.
Taylor in the first fight was winning early on and was on verge of KOing Kelly until he gassed. He then went on to get hurt and stopped off Kelly and that was detrimental to Taylor's mindset when it came to fighting Kelly.
But for me if you were to pit them both against some of the great middleweight champs from history Taylor would have a better time. Just look at their fights with B-Hop, Taylor beat him twice and Pavlik got schooled!
To me in the middleweight division Kelly has punch that can not be dealt with. Lightheavyweight is no place for Kelly to be at this point in time. People now make fun of Kelly by getting schooled by B-Hop but let's take a look at this.
B-Hop said it himself if Kelly would land one big shot he knew he would be in trouble. Something I never expected B-Hop to say.
Another thing people do forget whether you think I am making excuses or not Kelly had the flu since the Wednesday before the fight. He ran I believe it was 103 degree temperature on that Wednesday and was put on meds ASAP. No matter what you say or think if you are running a high temp it will effect you in the ring. I
I am not saying Kelly would have beaten B-Hop that night but if they fought at middleweight with Kelly not having temp issue well anything could happen.
With all that being said to your last question I think Kelly would fair much better in the middleweight division then Taylor. If you look at the all-time greats Monzon,Hagler. Pavlik has the same exact mantality a hard working,blue collar fighter. They didn't dazzle you with footwork,handspeed and ring generalship. They dazzled you with kicking your ass until you said mercy. IMO Monzon and Hagler would do exactly what Pavlik did to Taylor if they ever fought.
I neve said Taylor would beat them 2. But neither would Kelly. At the end of the day Taylor had Pavlik on the verge of KO but gassed. Hagler and Monzon would not, but to me B-Hop is 3rd to them in Middleweight history (as RJJ's longevity was saved for LHW) and Taylor beat him twice!Quote:
Originally Posted by The FightfanQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI know my logic in saying I think Talyor is better seems off. It's hard to expalin what I mean but here goes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Taylor in the first fight was winning early on and was on verge of KOing Kelly until he gassed. He then went on to get hurt and stopped off Kelly and that was detrimental to Taylor's mindset when it came to fighting Kelly.
But for me if you were to pit them both against some of the great middleweight champs from history Taylor would have a better time. Just look at their fights with B-Hop, Taylor beat him twice and Pavlik got schooled!
To me in the middleweight division Kelly has punch that can not be dealt with. Lightheavyweight is no place for Kelly to be at this point in time. People now make fun of Kelly by getting schooled by B-Hop but let's take a look at this.
B-Hop said it himself if Kelly would land one big shot he knew he would be in trouble. Something I never expected B-Hop to say.
Another thing people do forget whether you think I am making excuses or not Kelly had the flu since the Wednesday before the fight. He ran I believe it was 103 degree temperature on that Wednesday and was put on meds ASAP. No matter what you say or think if you are running a high temp it will effect you in the ring. I
I am not saying Kelly would have beaten B-Hop that night but if they fought at middleweight with Kelly not having temp issue well anything could happen.
With all that being said to your last question I think Kelly would fair much better in the middleweight division then Taylor. If you look at the all-time greats Monzon,Hagler. Pavlik has the same exact mantality a hard working,blue collar fighter. They didn't dazzle you with footwork,handspeed and ring generalship. They dazzled you with kicking your ass until you said mercy. IMO Monzon and Hagler would do exactly what Pavlik did to Taylor if they ever fought.
[quote=rjj tszyu;671166][quote=The Fightfan;671057]Two rounds don't make a fight. A fight goes until the final bell or until someone can't continue. For two rounds, Taylor beat Pavlik; for six rounds Cotto beat Margarito; for seven rounds Lee beat Vera - you get my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
Additionally, after the first fight...there was a second fight. In which Pavlik clearly outboxed Taylor. Like speed, power, and ring generalship, heart, courage, and perserverence are qualities that combine to make a fighter great. Pavlik has more of those than Taylor. It really can't be refuted. At 60, Pavlik is better than Taylor.
Your point is that Taylor would fair better than Pavlik against other all-time great middleweights. That is a different point and it would take consideration of the individual match-ups. Taylor may get the edge against some, and Pavlik the edge against others. At the end of the day, when both fighters are retired we can scrutinize their legacies and decide which one is stronger.