Training in the UK. Your Thoughts.

This thread has sprung up from what I've been reading in the training forum.

I'd like the opinion from any one training in the UK or a trainer (Scrap).

What do you think of the standard of training in the UK? Too outdated? Too stuck in their ways? Why does Scrap not like using pads? Why is it I've only ever done graduated sparring at 1 am.club and 1 martial arts club? Everyone else seems to just let their guys tough it out. I've read about it in several US boxing books and believe it's a very good way of honing both defensive and offensive skills.

Why do am.clubs send their kids out running at the start of a training session when it has been shown that it is better to train skills first before you are tired. Better still run on a none boxing day.

What do you like/dislike? What would you change?

Everything youve mentioned to, makes so much sense. Cant really say to much, but the coaching I watch at times makes me shudder. But its not just in Britain its World wide. Im going down a different route now, Ive given up on it ;D. Its surprising how some Fighters make it it puzzlels me.Involved a lot with new concepts at the moment, talk a lot with top people in Sports Science, they cant believe Im involved with Boxing. They tell me they find it funny watching Boxing coaches work. Im always asked about certain people in the Game by them. I always reply what do you think, I always get the reply Useless :confused:

Could be worse... could be football coaches! ;)

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Everything youve mentioned to, makes so much sense. Cant really say to much, but the coaching I watch at times makes me shudder. But its not just in Britain its World wide. Im going down a different route now, Ive given up on it ;D. Its surprising how some Fighters make it it puzzlels me.Involved a lot with new concepts at the moment, talk a lot with top people in Sports Science, they cant believe Im involved with Boxing. They tell me they find it funny watching Boxing coaches work. Im always asked about certain people in the Game by them. I always reply what do you think, I always get the reply Useless :confused:

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i would love to work with you scrap would be good experience, here we go then to top british boxers joe calzaghe and ricky hatton both done amazingly well but trained funny

Enzo isn't awful... not with Calzaghe anyway... it's worked for him. Billy Graham on the other hand...

Yeah i think it's definately worldwide. Not sure about Mexico or Cuba but Australia is crap and Japan varies but judging by the standard and how far they push fighters to loose weight also bad.

I had a coach from Russia who still competes who was against us drinking water at all during training. In the Australian heat that's just crazy!

Boxing doesn't seem to take up knowledge the way other sports do and i don't understand why. :confused:

Heres one,awell known American Coach was preparing a Fighter, He was putting Vaseline on the Fighters face in the Dressing room. The Kid started screaming saying He was Blind, the coach shit Himself and didnt know what to do. This was 15 minutes before a Title Fight, I asked what was in the mix with the Vasaline He said Newskin. I was gobsmacked :confused: I said do you want me to Help, do anything He said, Im thinking this guys going to have a Heartattack ;Dthe remedy. I got a bottle of Adrenalin 1/1000 and poured it into the eyes,whys that He asked. Its the best eyewash there is was my reply He said youre one cool motherfucker. The kid went out and won the Title no thanks to Him :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sharla

I had a coach from Russia who still competes who was against us drinking water at all during training. In the Australian heat that's just crazy!

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That's what Kostya believed. I can't quite remember the science behind it, it relates the liver functions and, it's definitely not the smartest way to go.

Its crazy, it stops everything from working and damages the reproduction organs, we are 60% water, its needed everywhere.

What concerns me as our knowledge grows why isn't it being passed on? Is it tradition? Do people think it ain't broke (disagree) then don't mess?

Problem is if you go to your local gym and they start off with a run and you turn round and say it's pitting you against your trainer from the beginning. Has anyone tried this?

I've got a reasonable excuse I get bad achilles tendonitis ;D Actually it affects me running, skipping and erm my boxing stance but apart from that I'm fine:mad:

Do trainers encourage their fighters to watch fights and look for faults - there's always a reason you got hit - do they encourage fighters to look a certain fighters and see what they're good at, why they are successful? Y'all know I'm a Barrera fan and I taught myself to hook off the jab by studying him. I broke it down slow, worked it in the air, worked it on the bag then made an effort to look for that move in sparring. Surely someone should have taught me that?:confused:

I'll chuck in something I found useful back in the day. This makes me think old school training and I've seen the 'wood-chop' being used as a functiontal move in some exercise dvd's.

It came from doing kali but the instructor also recommended it for body mechanics. Get yourself a long handled pickaxe, get in stance, hold it in your rear hand and do a one handed wood chop (or two) make sure you are pivoting with it. Chances are because of the weighted tip you will pivot/twist with it. Draw it back repeat etc.

No trees were harmed during this.:)

Speed drill. The sooner your hand comes back the sooner it can fire again. Eg. 10 regular fast jabs
now extend your arm from the jab. Retract the jab as fast as you can. Place it out / whip it back. x10

shake it out.

Now try to make both the punch and retraction as fast as each other.

If only I was a coach;D;D

I think its egos, that causes the problem, in this game anything new is Bollocks, the reason being They dont understand it. So they dont have to explain it, funny talking to a well known Promoter who I hadnt seen for some years. He asked if I was still doing all those crazy ideas I use to do, I said yes, He said its funny How everybody else is doing them now and yet in the70s and 80s they thought it was Bollocks ;D.

Does it feel good to be right?:)

To be Honest Missy it makes you feel Lonely :eek:

Shame. Do you have boxers seeking you out because of your 'progressive':D views.

From all over the place, or the phone all the time.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Could be worse... could be football coaches! ;)

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Originally Posted by Scrap

I think its egos, that causes the problem, in this game anything new is Bollocks, the reason being They dont understand it. So they dont have to explain it, funny talking to a well known Promoter who I hadnt seen for some years. He asked if I was still doing all those crazy ideas I use to do, I said yes, He said its funny How everybody else is doing them now and yet in the70s and 80s they thought it was Bollocks ;D.

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Now i realize i'm treading on dangerous ground here but do you think perhaps it is because boxing at the coaching and high level is a male dominated sport? Full of alpha male types?

I know there are a few good guys around who would not contribute to the problem but the fact they know their stuff intimidates other alpha males who want to be top dog?

Makes me think of boxing SA and how any HUGE shout down arguments people have over stupid, stupid stuff and it really is like a power struggle to be alpha male. People don't and can't really negotiate on a level playing field. Admiting someone who want or believes or does something different could be right is reliquishing too much power.

Similarly in an all female environment you'll often get women with queen bee syndrome who want to prevent others from improving and a lot of bitchyness and gossip. I definately don't think all female environments are any better but they are different.

Perhaps the ideal situation is more mixed but you also need people with real experience - preferably more bouts than the people they coach in my opinion and right now that's very difficult for most women to accrue due to a lack of matches etc etc.

The worst coach i ever had (for about 2 weeks) was a female who just couldn't help making snide bitchy remarks every two seconds. I can't really say I'd want to have a female coach but i think taking on a say nutrition tip from a non threating female might be more likely to happen than for one alpha male to listen to another sometimes? :confused:

Sharla you make some very goods points there.

Think we have touched on this before Biomechanics a joints fundamentles and there movement to respond to the thought of do. your take on improving mobility in response to signals from outside influences.

My hamstrings are testament to training "mal-practice."

I did what I was told as a youngster.
I followed instructions and expected it would make me a better athlete.

Now I'm having to invest time undoing damage donwe from endless running, skipping on poor surfaces and being taught a "knees straight" style.

Still, hope its not too late.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

My hamstrings are testament to training "mal-practice."

I did what I was told as a youngster.
I followed instructions and expected it would make me a better athlete.

Now I'm having to invest time undoing damage donwe from endless running, skipping on poor surfaces and being taught a "knees straight" style.

Still, hope its not too late.

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I've only been in one gym which had an area specifically for skipping. It was like a large raised wood sprung box....that was in Vegas. I've not seen anything in the UK.
The other place was a KB gym but all the floor was padded.


I think we have to be a little insistant and say you've got bad knees (even if you haven't), I'll skip but only in the ring.

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

My hamstrings are testament to training "mal-practice."

I did what I was told as a youngster.
I followed instructions and expected it would make me a better athlete.

Now I'm having to invest time undoing damage donwe from endless running, skipping on poor surfaces and being taught a "knees straight" style.

Still, hope its not too late.

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I've only been in one gym which had an area specifically for skipping. It was like a large raised wood sprung box....that was in Vegas. I've not seen anything in the UK.
The other place was a KB gym but all the floor was padded.


I think we have to be a little insistant and say you've got bad knees (even if you haven't), I'll skip but only in the ring.

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Most of the newer gyms here have entirely wooden floors, which is ok.

I've seen two gyms, (Alpha 1 and Moyross B.C.) with raised skipping areas, although they're still pretty solid.

I'm curious as to where all the squatting etc you often see fits into this?

I know the impact is not there so much but some gyms - especially kickboxing gyms will get you to do so much squatting to failure in classes regardless of your ability - is it really safe?

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Originally Posted by Sharla

I'm curious as to where all the squatting etc you often see fits into this?

I know the impact is not there so much but some gyms - especially kickboxing gyms will get you to do so much squatting to failure in classes regardless of your ability - is it really safe?

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Squatting must be done correctly, if you have tight hamstrings then your motion will be restricted and the pressure goes on your knees.

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Originally Posted by Bomp

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Originally Posted by Sharla

I'm curious as to where all the squatting etc you often see fits into this?

I know the impact is not there so much but some gyms - especially kickboxing gyms will get you to do so much squatting to failure in classes regardless of your ability - is it really safe?

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Squatting must be done correctly, if you have tight hamstrings then your motion will be restricted and the pressure goes on your knees.

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Ahh thanks bomp. That explains a lot actually! I think i am a bit dislexic with these things sometimes so the explanations are always much appreciated. :)

potentially bad exercise on the knees which I refused to do were, I think you call the monkey walks. Squat so your butt in nearly touching the floor then walk about. The reason was that Mike Tyson did them....he is also a convicted rapist, I don't suppose that should be a training method either. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

potentially bad exercise on the knees which I refused to do were, I think you call the monkey walks. Squat so your butt in nearly touching the floor then walk about. The reason was that Mike Tyson did them....he is also a convicted rapist, I don't suppose that should be a training method either. :cool:

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LoL


Yeah I refuse to do them too, painful even for the exceptionally limber.

I think the potential to knacker your knee ligaments outweighs the tough guy way of thinking when it comes to these....

I didn't stay at that gym for long...that coupled with the fact I would get ignored didn't help. Just because women will be more difficult to match doesn't mean you can push up to the back of the room. We pay to learn just like everyone else. :mad: Rant over ;D

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

I think the potential to knacker your knee ligaments outweighs the tough guy way of thinking when it comes to these....

I didn't stay at that gym for long...that coupled with the fact I would get ignored didn't help. Just because women will be more difficult to match doesn't mean you can push up to the back of the room. We pay to learn just like everyone else. :mad: Rant over ;D

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In my experience, women in an applied gym have far better focus and a better attitude toward learning boxing than men.

I remembver meeting Sharla, we shadowboxed at the same time and I felt so lazy! I threw nothing more than fours whilst she was throwing 5 and six punch combos LoL.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

I think the potential to knacker your knee ligaments outweighs the tough guy way of thinking when it comes to these....

I didn't stay at that gym for long...that coupled with the fact I would get ignored didn't help. Just because women will be more difficult to match doesn't mean you can push up to the back of the room. We pay to learn just like everyone else. :mad: Rant over ;D

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In my experience, women in an applied gym have far better focus and a better attitude toward learning boxing than men.

I remembver meeting Sharla, we shadowboxed at the same time and I felt so lazy! I threw nothing more than fours whilst she was throwing 5 and six punch combos LoL.

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5 and 6 punch combos. Meh...Sharla did that to me, I'd just go in for the clinch whenever possible. :p

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

potentially bad exercise on the knees which I refused to do were, I think you call the monkey walks. Squat so your butt in nearly touching the floor then walk about. The reason was that Mike Tyson did them....he is also a convicted rapist, I don't suppose that should be a training method either. :cool:

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What works for some may not for others, people's bodies vary in things such as shin/femur length ratios, which could decide how plausible such exercises are for an individual. The rule I use is if the joint hurts then don't do it.

Hi Bomp,

I'm bendy already. I can do without that kind of stretch round my knees. Maybe it's a woman thing:confused:

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Originally Posted by Youngblood

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

I think the potential to knacker your knee ligaments outweighs the tough guy way of thinking when it comes to these....

I didn't stay at that gym for long...that coupled with the fact I would get ignored didn't help. Just because women will be more difficult to match doesn't mean you can push up to the back of the room. We pay to learn just like everyone else. :mad: Rant over ;D

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In my experience, women in an applied gym have far better focus and a better attitude toward learning boxing than men.

I remembver meeting Sharla, we shadowboxed at the same time and I felt so lazy! I threw nothing more than fours whilst she was throwing 5 and six punch combos LoL.

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5 and 6 punch combos. Meh...Sharla did that to me, I'd just go in for the clinch whenever possible. :p

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I had no idea Donny! I don't think you could ever be lazy especially in comparison to me though since you've stuck it out!

I remember who was the wossy one and who Scrap called one of the original tough men when we were streching too! :-\

Missy yes that would work! :(

I really HATE people who clinch I just wanna move and be punching, using fitness to ware down an opponent and doing the high volume thing I get soooo frustrated! :mad:

As for the exercises etc Yeah for some reason I ave always sucked at squats and what we call bunny hopping here (if I understood).

Now I've started pilates though i wish it was a pre-requisite before going into these sports to have a basic level. Seems to make it so much easier to understand what proper posture is and how to maintain it and it was developed by a boxer! :D

haha I actually hate clinching too Sharla.

But my coach has me working on it and infighting using it every night when at the gym last 2 weeks and in sparring. It tires you out fast.

I liked clinching and lying on the ropes. You punch my arms, you get tired and I uppercut you or turn you:) .....maybe I was just really lazy.:p

Yeah with most sparring partners I've had I've been significantly lighter so being in a clinch = me squashed.:( I'd grab and turn on the ropes occasionally but only very briefly.

Plus I think clinching might take a while to become proficient at because it's kind of unnatural isn't it? I mean if someone was attacking you the last thing you'd want to do would be to hold them. You'd never assume they couldn't knife you or grab you hair or throat or bash your head against a wall etc etc

Also I guess you have to feel confident at using angles inside for longer instead of instinctively wanting to get far away after a series of exchanges. Not something I ever mastered I'm afraid!

Annoying - I wanted to get to a point where I could do everything in boxing to a basic degree. Just be basically proficient at everything I might use - even though I never expected to be spectacular. Never got there! :-\

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Originally Posted by Sharla

I had no idea Donny! I don't think you could ever be lazy especially in comparison to me though since you've stuck it out!

I remember who was the wossy one and who Scrap called one of the original tough men when we were streching too! :-\

Missy yes that would work! :(

I really HATE people who clinch I just wanna move and be punching, using fitness to ware down an opponent and doing the high volume thing I get soooo frustrated! :mad:

As for the exercises etc Yeah for some reason I ave always sucked at squats and what we call bunny hopping here (if I understood).

Now I've started pilates though i wish it was a pre-requisite before going into these sports to have a basic level. Seems to make it so much easier to understand what proper posture is and how to maintain it and it was developed by a boxer! :D

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Ha Ha it was good fun.
I was just impressed with your combos, they seemed prety accurate and sharp.

Whereas I'm relaxed......far too relaxed!!!!!

well that's something you can play with...I mean train.

Round 1. Loose combos.
2. Fast and sharp.
3. Full extension. (for me this follows 2 because often when I've seen people shadow box throwing fast combos they shorten their punches. This brings your technique back)
4. Focus on power.

etc. You can make it so it's just punching, add in footwork e.g move after ever shot or comb, add in head movement. Working these from the centre of the ring or outside or on the ropes.

Lots of things you can focus on. I'm too lazy to write more but you get the idea.

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

well that's something you can play with...I mean train.

Round 1. Loose combos.
2. Fast and sharp.
3. Full extension. (for me this follows 2 because often when I've seen people shadow box throwing fast combos they shorten their punches. This brings your technique back)
4. Focus on power.

etc. You can make it so it's just punching, add in footwork e.g move after ever shot or comb, add in head movement. Working these from the centre of the ring or outside or on the ropes.

Lots of things you can focus on. I'm too lazy to write more but you get the idea.

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I like do something very similar. It goes back to when I started out and reading Grey's notes on here. What stuck with me was his description of slips and counters, and that the motion of a slip was similar to that of a punch but less exxaggerated. I like to do the first few rounds without full extension, similar to PBF on the pads, as I get used to the constant shifting of weight for either a slip or a punch. Then I extend it to full extension punches with pivot, before merging both for the rest of the session. I've found this method has helped with recoil and geting back to position following each punch, ready for the next manouvre be it another punch or a slip or a duck.

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

well that's something you can play with...I mean train.

Round 1. Loose combos.
2. Fast and sharp.
3. Full extension. (for me this follows 2 because often when I've seen people shadow box throwing fast combos they shorten their punches. This brings your technique back)
4. Focus on power.

etc. You can make it so it's just punching, add in footwork e.g move after ever shot or comb, add in head movement. Working these from the centre of the ring or outside or on the ropes.

Lots of things you can focus on. I'm too lazy to write more but you get the idea.

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UYou just hit thenail on the head there.

I just shadow box form and as a result my combinations seem slow. But they flow in sparring so I'm thinking it works!