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Say what you like - Khan should never have won
Yes, I can be accused of flogging a dead horse but I thought it was a good article and not from someone who could (unlike me) be accused of being a hugger.
Guess it's more for your reading pleasure than to get in an argument about.
Khan should not have been declared the winner. This result is a sad reflection upon British boxing. The media have lost their heads completely in their evaluation of Khan's win. It was not impressive, it was total and utter crap.
If I was Barrera I would actually sue the British officials. I've certainly seen fights stopped for far less.
if an accidental headbutt occured within 4 rounds then if it gets stopped its a no contest right? but if a cut bad enough to stop the fight was caused by a punch then thats a tko?
yes.
That's right. Barrera was hit on the head with a butt in the second minute.Quote:
Originally Posted by mnmc10
And the blood flowed for nearly 20 minutes before they stopped it. Shouldve have been a NC.
Did Khan really beat Barrera? Not at all. Of course Khan thinks he has answered his critics. :rolleyes:;D
yep - just like Lewis v Vitali
It's a tough one. Barrera wanted to continue, the ref and doctor were probably shitting themselves in case they stopped it and the crowd got a tad upset ;D.
Agree about the fact it's all been blown into a roaring Khan success and hiow he is now world class again though
I now honestly think a rematch needs to happen to draw a line under it. Am surprised MAB hasn't made noises about one
I think a rematch is the only way to settle it. But you have to argue, why would Barrera ever want to go through that again. Khan could do it but he wouldn't in a million years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
I honestly think Barrera would spark him in 8. ;)
timing.
If the reports are accurate it means he is out for 5 to 6 months. I believe the plan would have been to manouvre him for a world title sooner rather than later.
As it is Khan moves up that spot & Barrera, Barrera would have challenged for a title as his next fight, fairly sure of this, Khan gets 1 or 2 easy fights to polish up his new style and a title shot.
Who knows maybe see if Khan can get an alphabet title during his lay off, Barrera challenges for a rematch & gets a title at a 4th weight :detective:
Nah Lewis beat Vitali fair and sqaure . He punched Vitali until he could no longer go on . Thats a legit stoppage . No headbutts involved but when a guy nuts the other in the opening seconds they shouldnt have waited conveniently until round 5 to stop it . They only made Barrera suffer that long so they could call Khan the winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
I agree.
It should of been stopped in the first.
Yes I know Lewis beat Vitali fair and square - which is why I said that ??Quote:
Originally Posted by GAMENah Lewis beat Vitali fair and sqaure . He punched Vitali until he could no longer go on . Thats a legit stoppage . No headbutts involved but when a guy nuts the other in the opening seconds they shouldnt have waited conveniently until round 5 to stop it . They only made Barrera suffer that long so they could call Khan the winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
Wonder whats gonna happen when Khan when Khan wins again :-\
Probably the same journalists will be saying that the cut caused Barerra the loss will be saying Barerra should havent fought again and how easily Khan handled him in the first fight showed he had nothing left...
And suddenly the cut will not be a factor in Barerra's performance of the first fight, it will be evidence he was past it, and Khan will get no credit once again.
Another lose-lose situation
I have to agree. Maybe it should have been a NC but i still think Khan beats him again, to big to fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Also I aint payin to watch it again.Im sure alot of other people wouldn't either. Makes no sense for Khan now. his team wanna take the confidence he gained and move on.
Ok,going way smaller,but to put it in to perspective,Rivas's people want a rematch and so do we,because it got screwed up by a bad corner,and we arent sure who would have won.
So Rivas isnt sure she won,and we arent sure we lost.
Khan should want the same thing if he was a true warrior,he should want to prove that wasnt a fluke,or because of the cut,but that he can really beat the man.
Tap tap on the heart to Lorissa for being more of a warrior then Khan is.
I actually wanted to like Khan,but he's being a total douche
So are you trying to say that the cut had no bearing on Barrera's performance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Well I'm sorry but when you have that much blood pissing in your eyes that you surely can't see, you are at a disadvantage. Even Ali needed his eyes, remember the first fight with Liston when he was blinded? He had to dance and stay out of the way until his vision cleared and then got back into his groove and tormented Sonny into quitting.
I think that a similar thing could have happened here but Barrera was never going to clear up because it was a CUT that was making him blind and therefore due to the severity of the cut initially, it should have been waved off at the end of round 1 and ultimately called a NC.
What im saying is when Khan wins the rematch he will get no credit still.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuSo are you trying to say that the cut had no bearing on Barrera's performance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Well I'm sorry but when you have that much blood pissing in your eyes that you surely can't see, you are at a disadvantage. Even Ali needed his eyes, remember the first fight with Liston when he was blinded? He had to dance and stay out of the way until his vision cleared and then got back into his groove and tormented Sonny into quitting.
I think that a similar thing could have happened here but Barrera was never going to clear up because it was a CUT that was making him blind and therefore due to the severity of the cut initially, it should have been waved off at the end of round 1 and ultimately called a NC.
Because the reason Barerra lost will be because he was past it and the first fight with Khan will be used as evidence for that, and rather then the journalists saying the cut was the reason Barerra looked bad, they will say the reason was he was past it and the fight just proved it.
So its a lose-lose for Khan. What I mean is to the journalists the cut means something now..
But if they rematch and Khan wins they will say that the first fight was evidence Barerra was past it and somehow the cut theory will be ignored.
2 minutes of action 7 or 8 punches land, sorry but Mystic Meg could not predict the outcome.
Having only just seen the fight at the weekend I would have to agree that the fight should have been stopped straight away. The ring doctor looked to be asking him if he wanted to go on....Duh, what fighter of that calbre is going to say no, it wasn't just your standard cut but a huge gash which rumoured here will take 6 months to heal properly before he can fight again.
As someone who wanted to see Khan do well I think he needs to avenge his big loss then have a rematch with MAB, if he came through both THEN the critics would be silenced and maybe he would get back some support.( Assuming he can offer some humility)
I don't think he will continue to fight out of the UK for much longer, using the press/public critics as an excuse to go Stateside.Now that he won't beat the record for youngest World Champ from UK he should recognise he has plenty of time and look to clear up his record.
It was a shambles. Im growing ever more tired of boxing, it sucks. (did i just say that ??? )
Well, its true. Shit like this gives me reason to not get excited about upcoming fights, prospects etc... I just give up with boxing. British Boxing especially..!
I'm not even that fussed about the Pac Hatton fight.. :rolleyes:
It amazes me that there are paid journalists who have written that up as a convincing win for Khan. It was NOT a convincing victory in the slightest. It was though an appallingly officiated contest, with the referee and doctor seemingly in competition as to who could be the most incompetent.
I could cut off my head and that doctor would tell me to take an aspirin. :rolleyes:
give me a fucking break....nobody made Barrera do anything, his pride was the reason the fight went on, he could have refused to go on and it would have been a NC, and nobody in their right mind would be able to say shit with how bad the cut was, end of storyQuote:
Originally Posted by GAMENah Lewis beat Vitali fair and sqaure . He punched Vitali until he could no longer go on . Thats a legit stoppage . No headbutts involved but when a guy nuts the other in the opening seconds they shouldnt have waited conveniently until round 5 to stop it . They only made Barrera suffer that long so they could call Khan the winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
Have to correct you. If Barrera or his corner pull out it's a TKO loss. It's a NC if the ref/doc stop it before the 5th.
If they (the ref/doc) don't stop it he has to go for the KO because they (mab & corner) know it can't go 12 with that head wound.
& I repeat, the doctor did not examine the cut. Check out the interaction in round 4. The doctor & Barrera are talking, blood is dripping off his eyebrow down his face. The doctor never examines the cut.... very poor.
he cleans the cut and examines it, and i doubt that they were talking about the weather or that the Dr was asking for an autograph, so plz stop making more excuses than the most obvious, Barrera lost cause he had too much damn pride and chose to fight on, he had too much pride and tried to take on a younger, bigger, natural lightweight and it didn't pay off, Khan beat a shell of the old Barrera, end ofQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
You seem intent on making this such an extreme example. On the one hadn your trying to suggest it was the most horrific cut to ever happen to a fighter, now your suggesting that the doctor and ref were so incompetent that they would have forced Barrera to fight on with this appalling injury and that if he said he couldn't see they would have disqualified him or ruled it a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Neither point is realistic. It was a bad cut for sure but probably not the worst injury to happen so far this year let alone of all times, and the doctor would have been duty bound to stop the fight if Barrera insisted he could not see.
We saw in the case of Hasim Rahman where he had just a tiny little cut that everyone whined what a pussy he was for quitting against Toney that the commision overruled the loss and ruled it a No Contest.
The idea that Barrera's cut would have not been deemed serious enough to stop the fight if he had insisted he couldn't see is just ludicrous.
What I find ironic is that Barrera needed 33 stitches (which I agree is a very bad cut) and people say the fight should have been stopped immediately whereas Vitali Klitschko needed 60 against Lennox Lewis and for years people have been arguing that that stoppage was premature.
It was a head clash caused in the first round that went on to require a lot of embroidery work and caused a lot of blood to come shooting down the head in horrid little spurts. It should have been stopped far quicker. Do you not think it should have been stopped and declared a NC???Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboYou seem intent on making this such an extreme example. On the one hadn your trying to suggest it was the most horrific cut to ever happen to a fighter, now your suggesting that the doctor and ref were so incompetent that they would have forced Barrera to fight on with this appalling injury and that if he said he couldn't see they would have disqualified him or ruled it a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Neither point is realistic. It was a bad cut for sure but probably not the worst injury to happen so far this year let alone of all times, and the doctor would have been duty bound to stop the fight if Barrera insisted he could not see.
We saw in the case of Hasim Rahman where he had just a tiny little cut that everyone whined what a pussy he was for quitting against Toney that the commision overruled the loss and ruled it a No Contest.
The idea that Barrera's cut would have not been deemed serious enough to stop the fight if he had insisted he couldn't see is just ludicrous.
What I find ironic is that Barrera needed 33 stitches (which I agree is a very bad cut) and people say the fight should have been stopped immediately whereas Vitali Klitschko needed 60 against Lennox Lewis and for years people have been arguing that that stoppage was premature.
Barrera wasn't going to wimp out was he now, he's certainly never shown a yellow streak before. The officials should have stopped it. I don't quite recall seeing a cut like that this year, Bilbo. In fact it's up there as one of the worst cuts I've seen in recent times. And caused by a butt in the second minute!
It was extremeQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboYou seem intent on making this such an extreme example. On the one hadn your trying to suggest it was the most horrific cut to ever happen to a fighter, now your suggesting that the doctor and ref were so incompetent that they would have forced Barrera to fight on with this appalling injury and that if he said he couldn't see they would have disqualified him or ruled it a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Neither point is realistic. It was a bad cut for sure but probably not the worst injury to happen so far this year let alone of all times, and the doctor would have been duty bound to stop the fight if Barrera insisted he could not see.
We saw in the case of Hasim Rahman where he had just a tiny little cut that everyone whined what a pussy he was for quitting against Toney that the commision overruled the loss and ruled it a No Contest.
The idea that Barrera's cut would have not been deemed serious enough to stop the fight if he had insisted he couldn't see is just ludicrous.
What I find ironic is that Barrera needed 33 stitches (which I agree is a very bad cut) and people say the fight should have been stopped immediately whereas Vitali Klitschko needed 60 against Lennox Lewis and for years people have been arguing that that stoppage was premature.
MAB was never gonna quit never has i have seems lesser cuts stopped immediatley, if you watch Warren in the 5 round he clearly indicates to the ref to attend the cut and stop the fight. Can you hand on heart honestly believe that if Khan had that cut it would have been allowed to continue i will find the clip i saw it the other day.
heres the link around 36 seconds left of the round
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-J1RpPD2Bg
agree with you miles but cant rep you at the moment;D
you must have a different version of the fight:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshe cleans the cut and examines it, and i doubt that they were talking about the weather or that the Dr was asking for an autograph, so plz stop making more excuses than the most obvious, Barrera lost cause he had too much damn pride and chose to fight on, he had too much pride and tried to take on a younger, bigger, natural lightweight and it didn't pay off, Khan beat a shell of the old Barrera, end ofQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
doc/ref need to call it off before rd5 for it to be a nc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I seriously think you are once again spoiling for a fight. No dinosaurs to discuss this month?
Have I ever said it's the worst cut? No. I know other people have said but once again you try and single me out.
Cuts over bone and over fleshy areas react differently to trauma. I don't need a doctor to tell me this. I've got enough scars to know this as fact. If he'd taken a clean shot to that wound I have no doubt it would have torn far worse than it was.
Stop exaggerating. I am not saying it is the worst cut of all time but it was serious a cut to hamper the fighter. I've seen much less serious cuts stop a fight. And I do think the ref/doc were at fault..as do many others so don't make out it's just me.
Which part of the ref/doc operating to protect a fighter do you not understand? You'd said with your own words that fighters get called pussies for quitting & you're suggesting MAB should have done this:rolleyes:
If MAB quits or his corner retire him it's a TKO loss - again which part of this is not getting through to you?
Have I ever called those fights in to question? VT cuts were bad. In that case it wasn't so much of how they were bleeding or were hampering his vision it was that it looked like someone had sliced him with a razor blade and it could have caused permanent damage.
You really do talk bollocks at time, only the others are too polite to mention it.
I don't think that is needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I seriously think you are once again spoiling for a fight. No dinosaurs to discuss this month?
Have I ever said it's the worst cut? No. I know other people have said but once again you try and single me out.
Cuts over bone and over fleshy areas react differently to trauma. I don't need a doctor to tell me this. I've got enough scars to know this as fact. If he'd taken a clean shot to that wound I have no doubt it would have torn far worse than it was.
Stop exaggerating. I am not saying it is the worst cut of all time but it was serious a cut to hamper the fighter. I've seen much less serious cuts stop a fight. And I do think the ref/doc were at fault..as do many others so don't make out it's just me.
Which part of the ref/doc operating to protect a fighter do you not understand? You'd said with your own words that fighters get called pussies for quitting & you're suggesting MAB should have done this:rolleyes:
If MAB quits or his corner retire him it's a TKO loss - again which part of this is not getting through to you?
Have I ever called those fights in to question? VT cuts were bad. In that case it wasn't so much of how they were bleeding or were hampering his vision it was that it looked like someone had sliced him with a razor blade and it could have caused permanent damage.
You really do talk bollocks at time, only the others are too polite to mention it.
You've started the thread which roughly translates to you over-ruling everyone elses opinion on the fight...like you're allowing everyone to debate it providing they all share the same opinion as you.
People are going to oppose your opinion of the fight, as a mod i would have thought it would have been obvious to you that on a boxing forum, opinions are going to be different so personally attacking somebody for having the opposite opinion as you is not really called for.
Ono do you believe Barrera's cut was not bad enough to have been stopped by the end of round 2? Have you not seen lesser cuts get a fight stopped?Quote:
Originally Posted by onoI don't think that is needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I seriously think you are once again spoiling for a fight. No dinosaurs to discuss this month?
Have I ever said it's the worst cut? No. I know other people have said but once again you try and single me out.
Cuts over bone and over fleshy areas react differently to trauma. I don't need a doctor to tell me this. I've got enough scars to know this as fact. If he'd taken a clean shot to that wound I have no doubt it would have torn far worse than it was.
Stop exaggerating. I am not saying it is the worst cut of all time but it was serious a cut to hamper the fighter. I've seen much less serious cuts stop a fight. And I do think the ref/doc were at fault..as do many others so don't make out it's just me.
Which part of the ref/doc operating to protect a fighter do you not understand? You'd said with your own words that fighters get called pussies for quitting & you're suggesting MAB should have done this:rolleyes:
If MAB quits or his corner retire him it's a TKO loss - again which part of this is not getting through to you?
Have I ever called those fights in to question? VT cuts were bad. In that case it wasn't so much of how they were bleeding or were hampering his vision it was that it looked like someone had sliced him with a razor blade and it could have caused permanent damage.
You really do talk bollocks at time, only the others are too polite to mention it.
You've started the thread which roughly translates to you over-ruling everyone elses opinion on the fight...like you're allowing everyone to debate it providing they all share the same opinion as you.
People are going to oppose your opinion of the fight, as a mod i would have thought it would have been obvious to you that on a boxing forum, opinions are going to be different so personally attacking somebody for having the opposite opinion as you is not really called for.
I would guess that of all the opinions I have been reading around the forums, and I have been reading a lot, because this a fight that has mobilised my interest. It would seem that most people would argue that the fight should have been a NC. There are a lot of people upset about what happened in this fight.
And it shouldn't go away. Khan should be made to follow up after what happened against Prescott and stop running from that fight. Nobody is impressed by what happened against Barrera either (except the muppet media. :rolleyes:). Khan and Barrera have unfinished work IMO, and hopefully Barrera will at some point have his chance to get it straight too.
ono - if I think someone is talking bollocks I'll say so, being a mod has nothing to do with it. Take a look at other threads...I'll say as I please and other people do to, that includes talking bollocks. ;)
The facts remain as miles has stated. It's not just my opinion on this, I read and occasionally post on several boxing forums and the majority are calling this a bullshit decision. Why pretend it's otherwise?
Should the fight have been stopped prior to the end of round 5? Yes or no? That is the only question that matters. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.
Well tell you the truth it doesnt matter Barrea last chance was this fight and he lost it and say all you want about how it should of gone but it did not. And now he is proably going to retire somthing should of done awhile ago. Hell i am a Evander Holyfeild fan think i like what happen to him in his last fight but it wont change anything facts is he has the lose and is to old to try to come back and do it again that is just what happens just let it go.
Yeah it should have been stopped but i'm pretty sure if Barrera wanted it stopped earlier, it would have been. There is no way a ringside doctor or a referee would make Barrera continue into the 4th round so Khan gets the victory.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOno do you believe Barrera's cut was not bad enough to have been stopped by the end of round 2? Have you not seen lesser cuts get a fight stopped?Quote:
Originally Posted by onoI don't think that is needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
You've started the thread which roughly translates to you over-ruling everyone elses opinion on the fight...like you're allowing everyone to debate it providing they all share the same opinion as you.
People are going to oppose your opinion of the fight, as a mod i would have thought it would have been obvious to you that on a boxing forum, opinions are going to be different so personally attacking somebody for having the opposite opinion as you is not really called for.
I would guess that of all the opinions I have been reading around the forums, and I have been reading a lot, because this a fight that has mobilised my interest. It would seem that most people would argue that the fight should have been a NC. There are a lot of people upset about what happened in this fight.
And it shouldn't go away. Khan should be made to follow up after what happened against Prescott and stop running from that fight. Nobody is impressed by what happened against Barrera either (except the muppet media. :rolleyes:). Khan and Barrera have unfinished work IMO, and hopefully Barrera will at some point have his chance to get it straight too.
And what the hell is all that about? Should be made? By who? I mean give him chance. After being brutallly ko'd he took on a guy who took Spadafora to SD...and then he took the Barrera fight. Not really the actions of a man running from a challenge....especially when he is considered a prospect and not a contender.
And why would Khan get back in with Prescott until he is sure he has ironed out all the defensive issues that resulted in him getting ko'd. He'll probably fight Prescott again at some point in the future. If not, no big deal. There is no law that says you have to avenge all your losses.
Yours and Missy Khan bashing is getting beyond a joke now mate. It's every single thread. It's worse than Danny G's Cotto lovefest. I appreciate that you are both Barrera fans but dis-crediting Khan at every opportunity is getting boring now.
It wasn't a bullshit decision. If Marco wanted the fight stopped earlier, it would have been stopped. He elected to continue on the gamble that he'd get Khan out of there. The gamble didn't pay off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
It was unsatisfactory and imo the cut looked bad enough for the fight to be stopped, but when the person who is suffering from the injury actually wants to continue you, he's either an unbelievable warrior or the cuts not as bad as it appears. I'd suggest what actually happened would be somewhere in the middle fo those two.
I believe that a cut running into the eye of a fighter would handicap him but i also believe that if Barrera was as blinded as some have suggested, Khan would have had him out of there inside 3 rounds.
I just think that you and Miles were riding a lot of blind hope on this fight and i don't understand why. You're both very intelligent posters but you both seemed to put an awful lot of faith into a fighter who had every physical dis-advantage going, coupled with the fact that he had come off the back of 2 fights against complete bums (one looks to be on Kid Thunders level) and now you both seem to have spat your dummy out because the result has gone against him. Maybe i'm just talking bollocks though
It was a gamble because it wasn't stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Finally - which is the point we have been making.Quote:
It was unsatisfactory and imo the cut looked bad enough for the fight to be stopped, but when the person who is suffering from the injury actually wants to continue you, he's either an unbelievable warrior or the cuts not as bad as it appears. I'd suggest what actually happened would be somewhere in the middle fo those two.
99% of want to carry on. Cooke & Enzo wanted to carry because they wanted to that means they should have. I beg your pardon.
now that is just silly. It took 11 rounds for Pac to break him down before the ref stepped in. You HONESTLY believe Khan could ko Barrera in 3 rounds? Now I know this is a wind up.Quote:
I believe that a cut running into the eye of a fighter would handicap him but i also believe that if Barrera was as blinded as some have suggested, Khan would have had him out of there inside 3 rounds.
did you hear Khan? Did you read the newspapers? I don't like hype and I don't like lies.Quote:
you both seem to have spat your dummy out because the result has gone against him. Maybe i'm just talking bollocks though
But Missy none of matters because at the end of the day he got the lose on his record and by the time he gets a rematch he while be older. What he should do is just call it a day he has had his time. I mean like i said before i hated what happen to Evander Holyfeild. felt he should of got that title but he didnt and i really dont think he can do much better then he did that night. Because next time he while be that much older and that much slower and everything while be against him.
Mr. I agree up to a point but that just boils down to an attitude of, 'why bother with anything?' & I can't accept that.