Say what you like - Khan should never have won

[Howlin Mad Missy]

You seem intent on making this such an extreme example. On the one hadn your trying to suggest it was the most horrific cut to ever happen to a fighter, now your suggesting that the doctor and ref were so incompetent that they would have forced Barrera to fight on with this appalling injury and that if he said he couldn't see they would have disqualified him or ruled it a loss.

Neither point is realistic. It was a bad cut for sure but probably not the worst injury to happen so far this year let alone of all times, and the doctor would have been duty bound to stop the fight if Barrera insisted he could not see.

We saw in the case of Hasim Rahman where he had just a tiny little cut that everyone whined what a pussy he was for quitting against Toney that the commision overruled the loss and ruled it a No Contest.

The idea that Barrera's cut would have not been deemed serious enough to stop the fight if he had insisted he couldn't see is just ludicrous.

What I find ironic is that Barrera needed 33 stitches (which I agree is a very bad cut) and people say the fight should have been stopped immediately whereas Vitali Klitschko needed 60 against Lennox Lewis and for years people have been arguing that that stoppage was premature.

I seriously think you are once again spoiling for a fight. No dinosaurs to discuss this month?

Have I ever said it's the worst cut? No. I know other people have said but once again you try and single me out.

Cuts over bone and over fleshy areas react differently to trauma. I don't need a doctor to tell me this. I've got enough scars to know this as fact. If he'd taken a clean shot to that wound I have no doubt it would have torn far worse than it was.

Stop exaggerating. I am not saying it is the worst cut of all time but it was serious a cut to hamper the fighter. I've seen much less serious cuts stop a fight. And I do think the ref/doc were at fault..as do many others so don't make out it's just me.

Which part of the ref/doc operating to protect a fighter do you not understand? You'd said with your own words that fighters get called pussies for quitting & you're suggesting MAB should have done this
If MAB quits or his corner retire him it's a TKO loss - again which part of this is not getting through to you?

Have I ever called those fights in to question? VT cuts were bad. In that case it wasn't so much of how they were bleeding or were hampering his vision it was that it looked like someone had sliced him with a razor blade and it could have caused permanent damage.

You really do talk bollocks at time, only the others are too polite to mention it.

[ono]

You seem intent on making this such an extreme example. On the one hadn your trying to suggest it was the most horrific cut to ever happen to a fighter, now your suggesting that the doctor and ref were so incompetent that they would have forced Barrera to fight on with this appalling injury and that if he said he couldn't see they would have disqualified him or ruled it a loss.

Neither point is realistic. It was a bad cut for sure but probably not the worst injury to happen so far this year let alone of all times, and the doctor would have been duty bound to stop the fight if Barrera insisted he could not see.

We saw in the case of Hasim Rahman where he had just a tiny little cut that everyone whined what a pussy he was for quitting against Toney that the commision overruled the loss and ruled it a No Contest.

The idea that Barrera's cut would have not been deemed serious enough to stop the fight if he had insisted he couldn't see is just ludicrous.

What I find ironic is that Barrera needed 33 stitches (which I agree is a very bad cut) and people say the fight should have been stopped immediately whereas Vitali Klitschko needed 60 against Lennox Lewis and for years people have been arguing that that stoppage was premature.

I seriously think you are once again spoiling for a fight. No dinosaurs to discuss this month?

Have I ever said it's the worst cut? No. I know other people have said but once again you try and single me out.

Cuts over bone and over fleshy areas react differently to trauma. I don't need a doctor to tell me this. I've got enough scars to know this as fact. If he'd taken a clean shot to that wound I have no doubt it would have torn far worse than it was.

Stop exaggerating. I am not saying it is the worst cut of all time but it was serious a cut to hamper the fighter. I've seen much less serious cuts stop a fight. And I do think the ref/doc were at fault..as do many others so don't make out it's just me.

Which part of the ref/doc operating to protect a fighter do you not understand? You'd said with your own words that fighters get called pussies for quitting & you're suggesting MAB should have done this
If MAB quits or his corner retire him it's a TKO loss - again which part of this is not getting through to you?

Have I ever called those fights in to question? VT cuts were bad. In that case it wasn't so much of how they were bleeding or were hampering his vision it was that it looked like someone had sliced him with a razor blade and it could have caused permanent damage.

You really do talk bollocks at time, only the others are too polite to mention it.

I don't think that is needed.

You've started the thread which roughly translates to you over-ruling everyone elses opinion on the fight...like you're allowing everyone to debate it providing they all share the same opinion as you.

People are going to oppose your opinion of the fight, as a mod i would have thought it would have been obvious to you that on a boxing forum, opinions are going to be different so personally attacking somebody for having the opposite opinion as you is not really called for.

[Gandalf]

You seem intent on making this such an extreme example. On the one hadn your trying to suggest it was the most horrific cut to ever happen to a fighter, now your suggesting that the doctor and ref were so incompetent that they would have forced Barrera to fight on with this appalling injury and that if he said he couldn't see they would have disqualified him or ruled it a loss.

Neither point is realistic. It was a bad cut for sure but probably not the worst injury to happen so far this year let alone of all times, and the doctor would have been duty bound to stop the fight if Barrera insisted he could not see.

We saw in the case of Hasim Rahman where he had just a tiny little cut that everyone whined what a pussy he was for quitting against Toney that the commision overruled the loss and ruled it a No Contest.

The idea that Barrera's cut would have not been deemed serious enough to stop the fight if he had insisted he couldn't see is just ludicrous.

What I find ironic is that Barrera needed 33 stitches (which I agree is a very bad cut) and people say the fight should have been stopped immediately whereas Vitali Klitschko needed 60 against Lennox Lewis and for years people have been arguing that that stoppage was premature.

I seriously think you are once again spoiling for a fight. No dinosaurs to discuss this month?

Have I ever said it's the worst cut? No. I know other people have said but once again you try and single me out.

Cuts over bone and over fleshy areas react differently to trauma. I don't need a doctor to tell me this. I've got enough scars to know this as fact. If he'd taken a clean shot to that wound I have no doubt it would have torn far worse than it was.

Stop exaggerating. I am not saying it is the worst cut of all time but it was serious a cut to hamper the fighter. I've seen much less serious cuts stop a fight. And I do think the ref/doc were at fault..as do many others so don't make out it's just me.

Which part of the ref/doc operating to protect a fighter do you not understand? You'd said with your own words that fighters get called pussies for quitting & you're suggesting MAB should have done this
If MAB quits or his corner retire him it's a TKO loss - again which part of this is not getting through to you?

Have I ever called those fights in to question? VT cuts were bad. In that case it wasn't so much of how they were bleeding or were hampering his vision it was that it looked like someone had sliced him with a razor blade and it could have caused permanent damage.

You really do talk bollocks at time, only the others are too polite to mention it.

I don't think that is needed.

You've started the thread which roughly translates to you over-ruling everyone elses opinion on the fight...like you're allowing everyone to debate it providing they all share the same opinion as you.

People are going to oppose your opinion of the fight, as a mod i would have thought it would have been obvious to you that on a boxing forum, opinions are going to be different so personally attacking somebody for having the opposite opinion as you is not really called for.

Ono do you believe Barrera's cut was not bad enough to have been stopped by the end of round 2? Have you not seen lesser cuts get a fight stopped?

I would guess that of all the opinions I have been reading around the forums, and I have been reading a lot, because this a fight that has mobilised my interest. It would seem that most people would argue that the fight should have been a NC. There are a lot of people upset about what happened in this fight.

And it shouldn't go away. Khan should be made to follow up after what happened against Prescott and stop running from that fight. Nobody is impressed by what happened against Barrera either (except the muppet media. ). Khan and Barrera have unfinished work IMO, and hopefully Barrera will at some point have his chance to get it straight too.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

ono - if I think someone is talking bollocks I'll say so, being a mod has nothing to do with it. Take a look at other threads...I'll say as I please and other people do to, that includes talking bollocks.

The facts remain as miles has stated. It's not just my opinion on this, I read and occasionally post on several boxing forums and the majority are calling this a bullshit decision. Why pretend it's otherwise?

Should the fight have been stopped prior to the end of round 5? Yes or no? That is the only question that matters. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

[Mr140]

Well tell you the truth it doesnt matter Barrea last chance was this fight and he lost it and say all you want about how it should of gone but it did not. And now he is proably going to retire somthing should of done awhile ago. Hell i am a Evander Holyfeild fan think i like what happen to him in his last fight but it wont change anything facts is he has the lose and is to old to try to come back and do it again that is just what happens just let it go.

[ono]

ono - if I think someone is talking bollocks I'll say so, being a mod has nothing to do with it. Take a look at other threads...I'll say as I please and other people do to, that includes talking bollocks.

The facts remain as miles has stated. It's not just my opinion on this, I read and occasionally post on several boxing forums and the majority are calling this a bullshit decision. Why pretend it's otherwise?

Should the fight have been stopped prior to the end of round 5? Yes or no? That is the only question that matters. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

It wasn't a bullshit decision. If Marco wanted the fight stopped earlier, it would have been stopped. He elected to continue on the gamble that he'd get Khan out of there. The gamble didn't pay off.

It was unsatisfactory and imo the cut looked bad enough for the fight to be stopped, but when the person who is suffering from the injury actually wants to continue you, he's either an unbelievable warrior or the cuts not as bad as it appears. I'd suggest what actually happened would be somewhere in the middle fo those two.

I believe that a cut running into the eye of a fighter would handicap him but i also believe that if Barrera was as blinded as some have suggested, Khan would have had him out of there inside 3 rounds.

I just think that you and Miles were riding a lot of blind hope on this fight and i don't understand why. You're both very intelligent posters but you both seemed to put an awful lot of faith into a fighter who had every physical dis-advantage going, coupled with the fact that he had come off the back of 2 fights against complete bums (one looks to be on Kid Thunders level) and now you both seem to have spat your dummy out because the result has gone against him. Maybe i'm just talking bollocks though

[Howlin Mad Missy]

It wasn't a bullshit decision. If Marco wanted the fight stopped earlier, it would have been stopped. He elected to continue on the gamble that he'd get Khan out of there. The gamble didn't pay off.

It was a gamble because it wasn't stopped.

It was unsatisfactory and imo the cut looked bad enough for the fight to be stopped, but when the person who is suffering from the injury actually wants to continue you, he's either an unbelievable warrior or the cuts not as bad as it appears. I'd suggest what actually happened would be somewhere in the middle fo those two.

Finally - which is the point we have been making.

99% of want to carry on. Cooke & Enzo wanted to carry because they wanted to that means they should have. I beg your pardon.

I believe that a cut running into the eye of a fighter would handicap him but i also believe that if Barrera was as blinded as some have suggested, Khan would have had him out of there inside 3 rounds.

now that is just silly. It took 11 rounds for Pac to break him down before the ref stepped in. You HONESTLY believe Khan could ko Barrera in 3 rounds? Now I know this is a wind up.

you both seem to have spat your dummy out because the result has gone against him. Maybe i'm just talking bollocks though

did you hear Khan? Did you read the newspapers? I don't like hype and I don't like lies.

[Mr140]

But Missy none of matters because at the end of the day he got the lose on his record and by the time he gets a rematch he while be older. What he should do is just call it a day he has had his time. I mean like i said before i hated what happen to Evander Holyfeild. felt he should of got that title but he didnt and i really dont think he can do much better then he did that night. Because next time he while be that much older and that much slower and everything while be against him.

[ono]

It wasn't a bullshit decision. If Marco wanted the fight stopped earlier, it would have been stopped. He elected to continue on the gamble that he'd get Khan out of there. The gamble didn't pay off.

It was a gamble because it wasn't stopped.

I'm pretty sure if he told the doctor he couldn't see the fight would have been waved off by the doctor - not the fighter quitting

It was unsatisfactory and imo the cut looked bad enough for the fight to be stopped, but when the person who is suffering from the injury actually wants to continue you, he's either an unbelievable warrior or the cuts not as bad as it appears. I'd suggest what actually happened would be somewhere in the middle fo those two.

Finally - which is the point we have been making.

99% of want to carry on. Cooke & Enzo wanted to carry because they wanted to that means they should have. I beg your pardon.

Woah slow down there Missy....i never said if a fighter wants to continue he should be allowed. Barrera had a cut. He wasn't on queer street like Enzo and Cooky. I said that imo the cut was a bad one, but at the same time i didn't think Barrera needed to go into 100% warrior mode just to survive the 5 rounds. The cut was bad enough for me not to feel satisfied about the fight, but it wasn't bad enough for me to not give Khan any credit for winning the fight. A few of you were making out that Khan was in there with Stevie Wonder wearing boxing gloves.

I believe that a cut running into the eye of a fighter would handicap him but i also believe that if Barrera was as blinded as some have suggested, Khan would have had him out of there inside 3 rounds.

now that is just silly. It took 11 rounds for Pac to break him down before the ref stepped in. You HONESTLY believe Khan could ko Barrera in 3 rounds? Now I know this is a wind up.

Yeah but Pac didn't break down a 'blind' MAB. My point was, Barrera was still savvy enough and could still see enough to block and slip punches. My point was, if he was totally blind in even one eye, Khan would have had a field day.

you both seem to have spat your dummy out because the result has gone against him. Maybe i'm just talking bollocks though

did you hear Khan? Did you read the newspapers? I don't like hype and I don't like lies.

I don't read the newspapers nor do i get taken in by the sensationalist headlines. I haven't heard a single Khan interview since the fight...all i heard was after the fight he seemed pleased with his performance....like most fighters are.

It's interesting that you don't like hype and you don't like lies yet you bought into the idea that a washed up Barrera that had been fighting in a gymnasium in China even had a slight chance against a young, hungry, talented fighter holding every physical advantage possible.

[ono]

I seriously think you are once again spoiling for a fight. No dinosaurs to discuss this month?

Have I ever said it's the worst cut? No. I know other people have said but once again you try and single me out.

Cuts over bone and over fleshy areas react differently to trauma. I don't need a doctor to tell me this. I've got enough scars to know this as fact. If he'd taken a clean shot to that wound I have no doubt it would have torn far worse than it was.

Stop exaggerating. I am not saying it is the worst cut of all time but it was serious a cut to hamper the fighter. I've seen much less serious cuts stop a fight. And I do think the ref/doc were at fault..as do many others so don't make out it's just me.

Which part of the ref/doc operating to protect a fighter do you not understand? You'd said with your own words that fighters get called pussies for quitting & you're suggesting MAB should have done this
If MAB quits or his corner retire him it's a TKO loss - again which part of this is not getting through to you?

Have I ever called those fights in to question? VT cuts were bad. In that case it wasn't so much of how they were bleeding or were hampering his vision it was that it looked like someone had sliced him with a razor blade and it could have caused permanent damage.

You really do talk bollocks at time, only the others are too polite to mention it.

I don't think that is needed.

You've started the thread which roughly translates to you over-ruling everyone elses opinion on the fight...like you're allowing everyone to debate it providing they all share the same opinion as you.

People are going to oppose your opinion of the fight, as a mod i would have thought it would have been obvious to you that on a boxing forum, opinions are going to be different so personally attacking somebody for having the opposite opinion as you is not really called for.

Ono do you believe Barrera's cut was not bad enough to have been stopped by the end of round 2? Have you not seen lesser cuts get a fight stopped?

I would guess that of all the opinions I have been reading around the forums, and I have been reading a lot, because this a fight that has mobilised my interest. It would seem that most people would argue that the fight should have been a NC. There are a lot of people upset about what happened in this fight.

And it shouldn't go away. Khan should be made to follow up after what happened against Prescott and stop running from that fight. Nobody is impressed by what happened against Barrera either (except the muppet media. ). Khan and Barrera have unfinished work IMO, and hopefully Barrera will at some point have his chance to get it straight too.

Yeah it should have been stopped but i'm pretty sure if Barrera wanted it stopped earlier, it would have been. There is no way a ringside doctor or a referee would make Barrera continue into the 4th round so Khan gets the victory.

And what the hell is all that about? Should be made? By who? I mean give him chance. After being brutallly ko'd he took on a guy who took Spadafora to SD...and then he took the Barrera fight. Not really the actions of a man running from a challenge....especially when he is considered a prospect and not a contender.

And why would Khan get back in with Prescott until he is sure he has ironed out all the defensive issues that resulted in him getting ko'd. He'll probably fight Prescott again at some point in the future. If not, no big deal. There is no law that says you have to avenge all your losses.

Yours and Missy Khan bashing is getting beyond a joke now mate. It's every single thread. It's worse than Danny G's Cotto lovefest. I appreciate that you are both Barrera fans but dis-crediting Khan at every opportunity is getting boring now.

[Gandalf]

I don't think that is needed.

You've started the thread which roughly translates to you over-ruling everyone elses opinion on the fight...like you're allowing everyone to debate it providing they all share the same opinion as you.

People are going to oppose your opinion of the fight, as a mod i would have thought it would have been obvious to you that on a boxing forum, opinions are going to be different so personally attacking somebody for having the opposite opinion as you is not really called for.

Ono do you believe Barrera's cut was not bad enough to have been stopped by the end of round 2? Have you not seen lesser cuts get a fight stopped?

I would guess that of all the opinions I have been reading around the forums, and I have been reading a lot, because this a fight that has mobilised my interest. It would seem that most people would argue that the fight should have been a NC. There are a lot of people upset about what happened in this fight.

And it shouldn't go away. Khan should be made to follow up after what happened against Prescott and stop running from that fight. Nobody is impressed by what happened against Barrera either (except the muppet media. ). Khan and Barrera have unfinished work IMO, and hopefully Barrera will at some point have his chance to get it straight too.

Yeah it should have been stopped but i'm pretty sure if Barrera wanted it stopped earlier, it would have been. There is no way a ringside doctor or a referee would make Barrera continue into the 4th round so Khan gets the victory.

And what the hell is all that about? Should be made? By who? I mean give him chance. After being brutallly ko'd he took on a guy who took Spadafora to SD...and then he took the Barrera fight. Not really the actions of a man running from a challenge....especially when he is considered a prospect and not a contender.

And why would Khan get back in with Prescott until he is sure he has ironed out all the defensive issues that resulted in him getting ko'd. He'll probably fight Prescott again at some point in the future. If not, no big deal. There is no law that says you have to avenge all your losses.

Yours and Missy Khan bashing is getting beyond a joke now mate. It's every single thread. It's worse than Danny G's Cotto lovefest. I appreciate that you are both Barrera fans but dis-crediting Khan at every opportunity is getting boring now.

It isn't really Khan bashing though is it? I have stated over and over again that this fight should have been stopped earlier and the fight declared a NC. I am mainly attacking the referee and the doctor. I do not blame Khan himself for what happened and I have stated this on numerous occasions. Barrera was treated appalingly though in this fight and the officials quite clearly failed to do what they are being paid to do.

I did say that he should rematch Prescott, and again I don't see that as an attack. I expect all fighters to try and avenge their losses, sooner rather than later too. I even think Barrera waited far too long for the rematch with Pac. It would have been a better fight had it taken place earlier. Barrera had the right idea in getting an instant rematch against Junior Jones, that's the type of attitude I like. Even if you get it wrong, it's better to go down trying. Under Warrens wing Khan will likely be kept away from Prescott a fair while longer. That is a slur upon Warren and not Khan. And I maintain that Khan has unfinished business with Barrera who should be granted a rematch within the next year.

If Khan manages to dispose of Barrera, as it should be done and not as it was, then I will be VERY impressed. And as I keep saying, I wouldn't hold any grudges about it and will most willingly give him all the credit he deserves. If you look at my posting history, you will have seen that I am not someone who is unwilling to give credit where credit is due. Even if my fighter loses I am usually able to say, "fair enough, I was wrong. Well done". In this instance though, I find myself unable to do that. It was a sham, and I really cannot overlook that.

I wouldn't say this is on every single thread either. There are about 3 threads running around. This is the only one I am bothering with at the moment, so I can't be accused of saying this all over the place on lots of other threads. It might not be fun to keep hearing about it, but this is perhaps because you are a Khan fan and would like to move on. I understand that, but this thread started with the intention of saying Khan should never have won. It's only fair that people are able to make that case.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Anyone watch Prizefighter last night? The one where a guy got stopped by a cut on the forehead following an accidental headbutt? The boxer wanted to continue but it was stopped in the same round the clash occured....

Thought I'd share.

Sky Sports | Boxing | News | Brawley takes Prizefighter title

[Kev]

Anyone watch Prizefighter last night? The one where a guy got stopped by a cut on the forehead following an accidental headbutt? The boxer wanted to continue but it was stopped in the same round the clash occured....

Thought I'd share.

Sky Sports | Boxing | News | Brawley takes Prizefighter title

Yes but they stopped the fight and immediately gave the other guy the tko win.

So is that what your arguing, that it should be Khan bt Barrera TKO Rnd 1 rather than Khan bt Barrera UD?

[Majesty]

Ono do you believe Barrera's cut was not bad enough to have been stopped by the end of round 2? Have you not seen lesser cuts get a fight stopped?

I would guess that of all the opinions I have been reading around the forums, and I have been reading a lot, because this a fight that has mobilised my interest. It would seem that most people would argue that the fight should have been a NC. There are a lot of people upset about what happened in this fight.

And it shouldn't go away. Khan should be made to follow up after what happened against Prescott and stop running from that fight. Nobody is impressed by what happened against Barrera either (except the muppet media. ). Khan and Barrera have unfinished work IMO, and hopefully Barrera will at some point have his chance to get it straight too.

Yeah it should have been stopped but i'm pretty sure if Barrera wanted it stopped earlier, it would have been. There is no way a ringside doctor or a referee would make Barrera continue into the 4th round so Khan gets the victory.

And what the hell is all that about? Should be made? By who? I mean give him chance. After being brutallly ko'd he took on a guy who took Spadafora to SD...and then he took the Barrera fight. Not really the actions of a man running from a challenge....especially when he is considered a prospect and not a contender.

And why would Khan get back in with Prescott until he is sure he has ironed out all the defensive issues that resulted in him getting ko'd. He'll probably fight Prescott again at some point in the future. If not, no big deal. There is no law that says you have to avenge all your losses.

Yours and Missy Khan bashing is getting beyond a joke now mate. It's every single thread. It's worse than Danny G's Cotto lovefest. I appreciate that you are both Barrera fans but dis-crediting Khan at every opportunity is getting boring now.

It isn't really Khan bashing though is it? I have stated over and over again that this fight should have been stopped earlier and the fight declared a NC. I am mainly attacking the referee and the doctor. I do not blame Khan himself for what happened and I have stated this on numerous occasions. Barrera was treated appalingly though in this fight and the officials quite clearly failed to do what they are being paid to do.

I did say that he should rematch Prescott, and again I don't see that as an attack. I expect all fighters to try and avenge their losses, sooner rather than later too. I even think Barrera waited far too long for the rematch with Pac. It would have been a better fight had it taken place earlier. Barrera had the right idea in getting an instant rematch against Junior Jones, that's the type of attitude I like. Even if you get it wrong, it's better to go down trying. Under Warrens wing Khan will likely be kept away from Prescott a fair while longer. That is a slur upon Warren and not Khan. And I maintain that Khan has unfinished business with Barrera who should be granted a rematch within the next year.

If Khan manages to dispose of Barrera, as it should be done and not as it was, then I will be VERY impressed. And as I keep saying, I wouldn't hold any grudges about it and will most willingly give him all the credit he deserves. If you look at my posting history, you will have seen that I am not someone who is unwilling to give credit where credit is due. Even if my fighter loses I am usually able to say, "fair enough, I was wrong. Well done". In this instance though, I find myself unable to do that. It was a sham, and I really cannot overlook that.

I wouldn't say this is on every single thread either. There are about 3 threads running around. This is the only one I am bothering with at the moment, so I can't be accused of saying this all over the place on lots of other threads. It might not be fun to keep hearing about it, but this is perhaps because you are a Khan fan and would like to move on. I understand that, but this thread started with the intention of saying Khan should never have won. It's only fair that people are able to make that case.

if your beef is with the ref's and the doctor only then nothing should stop you from giving Khan credit for his performance regardless.


There's nothing wrong with saying that Khan looked great and that you give him credit for being in there like that with someone like Barerra but you wish the fight would have been stopped earlier. Give credit to the fighter. It's ot as if Khan was supposed to say "Oh I headbutt you? Alright, knock me out"

If you have a problem not with Khan but with the doctors and etc, then why not give Khan any credit for his performance despite the headbutt. It's not like the headbutt forced Khan do well in the fight.