Inarguably the best boxer of Mexican descent

Without a doubt in my opinion, Ricardo " Finito " Lopez has been the most skilled and talented fighter to come out of Mexico. Although not having too many amateur fights his record was still pretty respectable at 37-1 as an amateur. His professional record spoke for itself, having 51 victories, 1 draw, and no defeats! He defended the WBC straw-weight championship 22 times. He also won the WBA and WBO championships in that same division. He moved up and won the IBF Lt. Flyweight title and defended it twice before retitring.

He holds the record for most consecutive " title " bouts without a loss in 26 straight!!!

He is one of few fighters who hold these bragging rights. He had a distinctive skill for flowing smoothly in the ring and he had such an amazing defense. One of the best in my opinion. I would have liked to seen him against Michael Carbajal both in their prime!!!

He boxed with so much finess, had KO power, etc. So far, the biggest challenge I saw him face was Rosendo Alvarez. I found the tie to be a bit questionable. I thought Rosendo Alvarez barely won that one. Would need to watch that fight again.

Not sure where you got your info. from but having met Ricardo Lopez and talked with him he assured me he never lost as an amateur or as a pro.
He went undefeated throughout his entire career from amateur to pro.

The only record Lopez holds is having defended the WBC title 21 times consecutively.
As for the "26" consecutive title bouts without a loss.
I believe Joe Louis, holds the record for most title defenses with 26.

I like Sanchez, Chavez, Olivares, and Zarate over him based on their level of opposition.

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Originally Posted by scraptime

Without a doubt in my opinion, Ricardo " Finito " Lopez has been the most skilled and talented fighter to come out of Mexico. Although not having too many amateur fights his record was still pretty respectable at 37-1 as an amateur. His professional record spoke for itself, having 51 victories, 1 draw, and no defeats! He defended the WBC straw-weight championship 22 times. He also won the WBA and WBO championships in that same division. He moved up and won the IBF Lt. Flyweight title and defended it twice before retitring.

He holds the record for most consecutive " title " bouts without a loss in 26 straight!!!

He is one of few fighters who hold these bragging rights. He had a distinctive skill for flowing smoothly in the ring and he had such an amazing defense. One of the best in my opinion. I would have liked to seen him against Michael Carbajal both in their prime!!!

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Hey ICE, where did you get his amatuer stats from?

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by scraptime

Without a doubt in my opinion, Ricardo " Finito " Lopez has been the most skilled and talented fighter to come out of Mexico. Although not having too many amateur fights his record was still pretty respectable at 37-1 as an amateur. His professional record spoke for itself, having 51 victories, 1 draw, and no defeats! He defended the WBC straw-weight championship 22 times. He also won the WBA and WBO championships in that same division. He moved up and won the IBF Lt. Flyweight title and defended it twice before retitring.

He holds the record for most consecutive " title " bouts without a loss in 26 straight!!!

He is one of few fighters who hold these bragging rights. He had a distinctive skill for flowing smoothly in the ring and he had such an amazing defense. One of the best in my opinion. I would have liked to seen him against Michael Carbajal both in their prime!!!

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Hey ICE, where did you get his amatuer stats from?

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:lolhaha:

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Originally Posted by holmcall

I like Sanchez, Chavez, Olivares, and Zarate over him based on their level of opposition.

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While I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by holmcall

I like Sanchez, Chavez, Olivares, and Zarate over him based on their level of opposition.

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While I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.

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:rolleyes:

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by holmcall

I like Sanchez, Chavez, Olivares, and Zarate over him based on their level of opposition.

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While I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.

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:rolleyes:

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

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I've often countered the "Bum" arguement with this.

Take away the 45 fights people say he fought bums and his record still stands a lot better then most current fighters and is still and ATG.

No love for Frankie Randall 2nd time around....or third ;D....Tiger Lopez went all out & for broke in with papa Chavez

I say when you take competition into account Barrera, Morrales, and JMM all easily are as good as "Finito" Lopez. He never fought the competition they did, never did fight somebody who was of his level. IMO he was a great fighter, but you can't say he's better than these guys.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by holmcall

I like Sanchez, Chavez, Olivares, and Zarate over him based on their level of opposition.

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While I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.

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I've often countered the "Bum" arguement with this.
Take away the 45 fights people say he fought bums and his record still stands a lot better then most current fighters and is still and ATG

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Exactly. Chavez defended his title more than 27 times, had more than 37 title fights as well, had the longest undefeated streak in boxing history, etc. Considered as one of the greatest boxers. Won six world titles in three weights. Beat world champions such as Meldrick Taylor, Jose Luis Ramirez, Macho Camacho, Edwin Rosario, Greg Haugen, Rafael Limon, Rocky Lockridge, Tony Lopez, etc. Ranked as the 18th greatest fighter by Ring Magazine back in the early 2000s. Ring also ranked him in their top 100 as the greatest punchers of all time.

Fighting bums or not at the beginning of his career, he did accomplish quite something:). It doesn't surprise me to hear people say that Chavez was not only one of Mexico's greatest but also one of boxing's greatest.

Dont even bother its Tito fan what did you expect him to say about it.

I am a JCC fan but admit Ricardo Lopez is overlooked and p4p probably was the better fighter.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by scraptime

Without a doubt in my opinion, Ricardo " Finito " Lopez has been the most skilled and talented fighter to come out of Mexico. Although not having too many amateur fights his record was still pretty respectable at 37-1 as an amateur. His professional record spoke for itself, having 51 victories, 1 draw, and no defeats! He defended the WBC straw-weight championship 22 times. He also won the WBA and WBO championships in that same division. He moved up and won the IBF Lt. Flyweight title and defended it twice before retitring.

He holds the record for most consecutive " title " bouts without a loss in 26 straight!!!

He is one of few fighters who hold these bragging rights. He had a distinctive skill for flowing smoothly in the ring and he had such an amazing defense. One of the best in my opinion. I would have liked to seen him against Michael Carbajal both in their prime!!!

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Hey ICE, where did you get his amatuer stats from?

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;D

I do have my suspicions on which of the new members might be Ice, Scraptime wasn't one of them so thanks for the heads up! ;)

Im beggining to think JMM is the greatest boxer of mexico.

It could be Manny if he keeps beating fighters from Mexico!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Diane

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by scraptime

Without a doubt in my opinion, Ricardo " Finito " Lopez has been the most skilled and talented fighter to come out of Mexico. Although not having too many amateur fights his record was still pretty respectable at 37-1 as an amateur. His professional record spoke for itself, having 51 victories, 1 draw, and no defeats! He defended the WBC straw-weight championship 22 times. He also won the WBA and WBO championships in that same division. He moved up and won the IBF Lt. Flyweight title and defended it twice before retitring.

He holds the record for most consecutive " title " bouts without a loss in 26 straight!!!

He is one of few fighters who hold these bragging rights. He had a distinctive skill for flowing smoothly in the ring and he had such an amazing defense. One of the best in my opinion. I would have liked to seen him against Michael Carbajal both in their prime!!!

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Hey ICE, where did you get his amatuer stats from?

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:lolhaha:

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Brutal.

I wanted to play along and you guys put him on blast... ;D

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by holmcall

I like Sanchez, Chavez, Olivares, and Zarate over him based on their level of opposition.

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While I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.

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:rolleyes:

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

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I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Dont even bother its Tito fan what did you expect him to say about it.

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I'm really hurt that someone who argues as eloquently as you would say that of me.

:beat:

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

Im beggining to think JMM is the greatest boxer of mexico.

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JR, your def. not alone in that thought.

Here's what my list looked like in 2007
If I had to re-make that list today I would start with putting JMM at #5 and slide everyone down 1 spot.
Leaving "Chiquita" Gonzalez out.
I have also learned a lot more on Saldivar and would move Saldivar up one and MAB up one and would drop Canto to #10.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Here's my top 10 Mexican fighters.

1. JCC
2. 'Finito' Lopez
3. Olivares
4. Sanchez
5. Roman
6. Erik
7. Canto
8. Saldivar
9. MAB
10. 'Chiquita' (Vastly overlooked in the All-Times lists)

*Depending how JMM, Montiel, Rafa & Izzy close out their respective careers I think either one could potentially slip into the top 10.

Honors: Zaragoza, Zarate, Efren, Pintor, Medina, 'Santa Tokyo', 'Cobrita', Arce, Zurita, Kid Azteca, Rafa, Izzy, Herrera, Montiel, Mijares, Solis, Cazares, "Yaqui", Arizmendi, "Raton", Villasana.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

While I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.

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:rolleyes:

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

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I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

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Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

Too many great Mexican fighters of days old to even begin to name who was best...Almost impossible

Well tito never said i dont do that but does not change the fact that you bag on JCC regardless all i said is its you what did they expect lol. Not saying its a bad thing just saying thats the way you are. I do the same thing i be shocked if you said anything good about JCC. All i was saying be even more shocked if you said something good about Oscar Dela Hoya all i was getting at is when someone brings them up those guys say the same shit like there overrated or they did not do as good as people say.

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by CGM

:rolleyes:

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

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I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

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Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

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What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well tito never said i dont do that but does not change the fact that you bag on JCC regardless all i said is its you what did they expect lol. Not saying its a bad thing just saying thats the way you are. I do the same thing i be shocked if you said anything good about JCC. All i was saying be even more shocked if you said something good about Oscar Dela Hoya all i was getting at is when someone brings them up those guys say the same shit like there overrated or they did not do as good as people say.

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I've said good things about both fighters. You just choose not to read them. See my previous post on this thread, where I give JCC his props. Of course, I also present some arguments against his being annointed God by some near-sighted fans.

Now... on the subject of DLH, just don't expect me to sign up for his Fan Club (LOL).

;)

Magarita lacks defense but compensates with plaster

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

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Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

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What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)

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That's all fine, but it was about the quality of his opposition compared to Lopez, not about his total number of victories. You disagreed with Holmcall ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition because of his early taxidriver opponents. I'm not disputing that a lot of his early opponents were questionable. It just doesn't detract from his title reign in any way shape or form. And his title reign looks very good against Lopez. Like mIck says, Just look at his fights from 45 onwards. Now if you are going to argue that Lopez top 15 victims are better than Chavez top 15 victims that's a different story. I made it clear where I stand there.

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by CGM

Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

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What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)

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That's all fine, but it was about the quality of his opposition compared to Lopez, not about his total number of victories. You disagreed with Holmcall ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition because of his early taxidriver opponents. I'm not disputing that a lot of his early opponents were questionable. It just doesn't detract from his title reign in any way shape or form. And his title reign looks very good against Lopez. Like mIck says, Just look at his fights from 45 onwards. Now if you are going to argue that Lopez top 15 victims are better than Chavez top 15 victims that's a different story. I made it clear where I stand there.

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When you compare top 15 opposing fighters, JCC does indeed come out on top over Finito. So on that basis alone, I guess a case could be made for Chavez. I did see each fight in their respective peaks however, and always thought Finito was the more dominant, complete fighter. I may be a little biased as well, 'cause I always respected Finito more as a person, as well as his prowess in the ring.

6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.

Well Tito if you not looking just at recored then you score it by skill and how good they were pound for pound i guess right or no. Because if so i guess thats not that far off i mean i think Benitez is the best PR fighter skill wise really but i am sure there some fighters with better records. Really a shame what happen to that guy in the end of his career and life.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well Tito if you not looking just at recored then you score it by skill and how good they were pound for pound i guess right or no. Because if so i guess thats not that far off i mean i think Benitez is the best PR fighter skill wise really but i am sure there some fighters with better records. Really a shame what happen to that guy in the end of his career and life.

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Definitely. Wilfredo "El Radar de St. Just" Benitez was a masterful defensive fighter, and a joy to watch. Youngest boxer to win a title when he beat Antonio Cervantes for the world title at age 17. Didn't end up very well, though.

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Originally Posted by scraptime

Without a doubt in my opinion, Ricardo " Finito " Lopez has been the most skilled and talented fighter to come out of Mexico. Although not having too many amateur fights his record was still pretty respectable at 37-1 as an amateur. His professional record spoke for itself, having 51 victories, 1 draw, and no defeats! He defended the WBC straw-weight championship 22 times. He also won the WBA and WBO championships in that same division. He moved up and won the IBF Lt. Flyweight title and defended it twice before retitring.

He holds the record for most consecutive " title " bouts without a loss in 26 straight!!!

He is one of few fighters who hold these bragging rights. He had a distinctive skill for flowing smoothly in the ring and he had such an amazing defense. One of the best in my opinion. I would have liked to seen him against Michael Carbajal both in their prime!!!

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As much as i like Ricardo Lopez, using the word "Inarguably" is perhaps a little off the mark here. Two words (Salvador Sanchez) I'm sticking my neck out here because i love the Mexican fighters, Olivares, Barrera, Morales, Zarate all being favoruites of mine but Salvador Sanchez takes the title for me as the best Mexican fighter ever. He beats Danny Lopez twice at age 19 the first time round then beats Juan LaPorte and KO's Wilfredo Gomez and Azumah Nelson! Holy frijoles that's impressive!
I have Finito in my top 3
Sanchez
Olivares
Finito

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Originally Posted by Pavlik

6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.

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no love for Oscar in this thread?;D

Oscar is mexican, but he isn't a mexican. He's from the states, arguably he is as good as any of them. IMO he would have given any of them one hell of a fight p4p, fought the best competition of all of them, and won against guys I am not sure some of the other greats would have.

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

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Originally Posted by Pavlik

6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.

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no love for Oscar in this thread?;D

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I had love for Oscar of the old....Oscar the warrior...Then he turned into Oscar the promoter and self righteous Oscar.....

Regardless though he is still and ATG no matter what personal opinion is...His record speaks for itself....

Though I do not know if he fits the catagory of the thread...He is of Mexican decent...Not a Mexican

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

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Originally Posted by Pavlik

6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.

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no love for Oscar in this thread?;D

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I had love for Oscar of the old....Oscar the warrior...Then he turned into Oscar the promoter and self righteous Oscar.....

Regardless though he is still and ATG no matter what personal opinion is...His record speaks for itself....

Though I do not know if he fits the catagory of the thread...He is of Mexican decent...Not a Mexican

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well the thread does say 'best boxer of mexican decent' so I figure he ticks that box.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

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Originally Posted by Pavlik

6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.

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no love for Oscar in this thread?;D

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I had love for Oscar of the old....Oscar the warrior...Then he turned into Oscar the promoter and self righteous Oscar.....

Regardless though he is still and ATG no matter what personal opinion is...His record speaks for itself....

Though I do not know if he fits the catagory of the thread...He is of Mexican decent...Not a Mexican

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He has severely tarnished his legacy with a string of losses against A list fighters, the last few years have been quite sad and Oscar simply doesn't know whether he is a fighter or a promoter. He took his eye off the ball as they say? Of Mexican descent he is top 10 but not top 5!

The Third Man even with Oscars Loses he still has more wins over qualty oppents and former champions then any other mexican fighter. I really never understood why people arent including him in there lists. I mean he has mexican blood in him which makes him well atleast under this thread mexican just dont understand people not including him.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

The Third Man even with Oscars Loses he still has more wins over qualty oppents and former champions then any other mexican fighter. I really never understood why people arent including him in there lists. I mean he has mexican blood in him which makes him well atleast under this thread mexican just dont understand people not including him.

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I rate him highly and i was a big fan for a while there, he was robbed in the Trinidad fight and Mosley 2. He is certainly worthy of contention but his performances over the past 5 years have not been good losing 4 of the last 7. Should never have moved up to Middleweight and his preparation for Pacman was that of a man who had other things on his mind.