He doesn't do anything but throw fast left hooks and overhand rights with a smothering approach. In fact, for a guy who tries to punch really hard, he sure doesn't have a lot of knock outs.
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He doesn't do anything but throw fast left hooks and overhand rights with a smothering approach. In fact, for a guy who tries to punch really hard, he sure doesn't have a lot of knock outs.
I love it when a skilled fighter beats a hard headed beast in the ring. Most of the time, the beasts have one or two good fights and then they fade. Because their willingness to take those punches catches up.
It really blows me away that fighters refused to hone their craft and gain skills.
and that wasn't the case at all against Marquez, the fight was very close up until the stoppage, and dude wtf are you talking about you just described Ricky HattonQuote:
Originally Posted by brptrojan
Diaz is world class but not elite similar to Ricky Hatton.
That's right. You must beat (active) elite to become elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
so what (active) ELITE fighter has Manny beaten of late to be considered elite?Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaThat's right. You must beat (active) elite to become elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
Your mom.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesso what (active) ELITE fighter has Manny beaten of late to be considered elite?Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaThat's right. You must beat (active) elite to become elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by brptrojan
Diaz has plenty of skill. He's good defensively, he has fast hands and good footwork. The only thing he lacks is power. If you don't like his style, that's fine, but don't discredit his work ethic or claim that he lacks skills.
yea nice defense :rolleyes:, it's a simple question, it's no double standardQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaYour mom.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesso what (active) ELITE fighter has Manny beaten of late to be considered elite?Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
Agreed.. Diaz is a great fighter, but unfortunately it is no secret that he lacks power, which will keep him falling short from defeating the elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by brptrojan
Diaz has plenty of skill. He's good defensively, he has fast hands and good footwork. The only thing he lacks is power. If you don't like his style, that's fine, but don't discredit his work ethic or claim that he lacks skills.
Echo this.Some fighters would do well to take after his tenacity,dedication and self belief.Nice handspeed and skilled.Not a big banger...but he sure rocked Marquez bad with a left hook.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by brptrojan
Diaz has plenty of skill. He's good defensively, he has fast hands and good footwork. The only thing he lacks is power. If you don't like his style, that's fine, but don't discredit his work ethic or claim that he lacks skills.
Juan Diaz reminds of Joe Frazier without the footspeed or power... or head movement, but he keeps his hands higher to compensate.
What elites were out there for him to beat besides Marquez?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesso what (active) ELITE fighter has Manny beaten of late to be considered elite?Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaThat's right. You must beat (active) elite to become elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
LOL, this is why people need to watch FNF undercards and walk out bouts, Juan Diaz has plenty of skill, he's not elite, shocking breaking news: not many people are.
Juan Diaz would beat a lot of "skilled boxers", he just didn't beat an ATG, he did on the other hand take it to him, rock him, won rounds, make him look very uncomfortable compared to what he usually looks like, and finally, unfortunately, went out on his shield to a great boxer and puncher, what a loser.
Who cares, Manny's been elite for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyWhat elites were out there for him to beat besides Marquez?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesso what (active) ELITE fighter has Manny beaten of late to be considered elite?Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
that's what i was trying to say, you don't have to beat elite to be elite, you pick up enough meaningful wins against good world class opposition and you should be considered an elite fighter, hence the p4p list, and i'm not disputing the fact that Pacquiao should be considered elite cause he should, only thing is that the theory of "to be elite you have to beat (active) elite" is complete bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanWho cares, Manny's been elite for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyWhat elites were out there for him to beat besides Marquez?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
so you're considering Juan Diaz as elite fighter eventhough hes got his ass handed to him by active elite fighters like Campbell and Marquez? :confused::-\Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthat's what i was trying to say, you don't have to beat elite to be elite, you pick up enough meaningful wins against good world class opposition and you should be considered an elite fighter, hence the p4p list, and i'm not disputing the fact that Pacquiao should be considered elite cause he should, only thing is that the theory of "to be elite you have to beat (active) elite" is complete bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanWho cares, Manny's been elite for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
So... he looks... anything like him... at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Frazier and he throw punches nothing alike IMO. When have we seen Baby Bull throw 7 left hooks in a row?
I am really shocked at how people perceive Juan Diaz. Granted, he is not a knockout artist, but I would never say he lacks power. It's not shoe shin he's serving out there. Listen to Manny Stewart's commentary when he fought JMM. "Diaz was sitting on his punches, using his legs, and landing big shots". I thought for the first tiem Diaz' punches were stronger than ever after the first couple rounds. I do not think that it's Diaz power that we were missing, it was JMM's chin is cast iron. The guy is impossible to hurt.
Diaz still has a great career ahead of him. He is fighting guys who are not easy to knockout, guys who he should be outboxing, really, and he's had a lot of success, despite coming up short 2x in his career. I really give credit to Campbell and JMM, rather than discredit J. Diaz.
Aside: It's too bad His little bro (R.Marquez) had to be matched up with his elite Izzy. He would be viewed as just as good a fighter, but he's had to take MUCH harder shots than JMM with his Elite matchup... And yes, of course Pacman is Elite. DUH!
I know that, I was responding to ElTerrible who was asking who elite manny fought lately, so I was asking who else was there for him to fight that was considered elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanWho cares, Manny's been elite for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyWhat elites were out there for him to beat besides Marquez?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
in anything that i wrote did i say i considered Diaz an elite fighter? no, but i do consider Hatton right now one of the elite fighters out there, and i don't even really like HattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manilaso you're considering Juan Diaz as elite fighter eventhough hes got his ass handed to him by active elite fighters like Campbell and Marquez? :confused::-\Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthat's what i was trying to say, you don't have to beat elite to be elite, you pick up enough meaningful wins against good world class opposition and you should be considered an elite fighter, hence the p4p list, and i'm not disputing the fact that Pacquiao should be considered elite cause he should, only thing is that the theory of "to be elite you have to beat (active) elite" is complete bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Aight, fair enough. I was gonna say "Geez! Jaca is elite fighter then, coz he was very competive against Marquez, but ended up getting KTFO just like Diaz."Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesin anything that i wrote did i say i considered Diaz an elite fighter? no, but i do consider Hatton right now one of the elite fighters out there, and i don't even really like HattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manilaso you're considering Juan Diaz as elite fighter eventhough hes got his ass handed to him by active elite fighters like Campbell and Marquez? :confused::-\Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
So Manny beating Marquez, Barrera, Dela Hoya, and Morales isnt' considered beating elites?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthat's what i was trying to say, you don't have to beat elite to be elite, you pick up enough meaningful wins against good world class opposition and you should be considered an elite fighter, hence the p4p list, and i'm not disputing the fact that Pacquiao should be considered elite cause he should, only thing is that the theory of "to be elite you have to beat (active) elite" is complete bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanWho cares, Manny's been elite for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
beating a shot Morales and De La Hoya no, Barrera yes, and Marquez i felt he won both fights not MannyQuote:
Originally Posted by TaethSo Manny beating Marquez, Barrera, Dela Hoya, and Morales isnt' considered beating elites?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthat's what i was trying to say, you don't have to beat elite to be elite, you pick up enough meaningful wins against good world class opposition and you should be considered an elite fighter, hence the p4p list, and i'm not disputing the fact that Pacquiao should be considered elite cause he should, only thing is that the theory of "to be elite you have to beat (active) elite" is complete bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Well, that's your opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesbeating a shot Morales and De La Hoya no, Barrera yes, and Marquez i felt he won both fights not MannyQuote:
Originally Posted by TaethSo Manny beating Marquez, Barrera, Dela Hoya, and Morales isnt' considered beating elites?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
The debates on who won both Pac-JMM fights will just go on and on and on and on...
But on the latest Ring Mag issue, JMM seems to admitted he never defeated Pac (check out my sig).
no doubt, they're just those types of fights that will always be disputed on who actually won, like Hagler/Leonard, DLH/Trinidad, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaWell, that's your opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesbeating a shot Morales and De La Hoya no, Barrera yes, and Marquez i felt he won both fights not MannyQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
The debates on who won both Pac-JMM fights will just go on and on and on and on...
But on the latest Ring Mag issue, JMM seems to admitted he never defeated Pac (check out my sig).
The only people that think Marquez won the second fight are delusional, he didn't even win without the knockdown, with it there is no way he won that fight. Need further evidence of who was better watch Marquez-Barrear then Pacquiao-Barrera, in the first fight both guys seem virtually equal, while in the second fihgt consisting of Pacquiao and Barrera, Pacquiao wins handily and doesn't even really step on the gas.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesbeating a shot Morales and De La Hoya no, Barrera yes, and Marquez i felt he won both fights not MannyQuote:
Originally Posted by TaethSo Manny beating Marquez, Barrera, Dela Hoya, and Morales isnt' considered beating elites?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Morales wasn't shot in their first fight and Manny almost beat him there and he wasn't half as good as he is now.
Also was that the same shot Oscar De La Hoya who looked good against Mayweather and Steve Forbes? I am not saying he was what, he once was maybe even when he faced Floyd, but it was Pacquiao's greatness not De La Hoya's decline that was the reason he got his ass handed to him. Marquez wouldn't have been able to do that.
Even if you had Pacquiao losing both fights to Marquez which due to terrible scoring, they would have still had to have been extremely close fights(within a round or two) and the second one even without the knockdown scored would have had to been very close.
[quote=Taeth;715012]Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesbeating a shot Morales and De La Hoya no, Barrera yes, and Marquez i felt he won both fights not MannyQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Barrera was giving Pacquiao fits in the first fight until the later rounds, IMO he could have taken him out if he would have pressured more, Manny gets the credit that he came back and stopped himQuote:
The only people that think Marquez won the second fight are delusional, he didn't even win without the knockdown, with it there is no way he won that fight. Need further evidence of who was better watch Marquez-Barrear then Pacquiao-Barrera, in the first fight both guys seem virtually equal, while in the second fihgt consisting of Pacquiao and Barrera, Pacquiao wins handily and doesn't even really step on the gas.
Morales won 115-113 UD, and could have easily won 116-112 in the first fight, he gave away the last round, after dominating the 11th, and hello he lost to Raheem the very next fight, and i know you're not trying to say that Raheem is overall better than Morales cause if you are it proves you're an biased assQuote:
Morales wasn't shot in their first fight and Manny almost beat him there and he wasn't half as good as he is now.
you're the first person to actually say DLH looked good against Forbes :-X shit that's the first fight i've seen the winner win by shut out and still look like crap, and honestly anyone at 147,140,135 with a pulse would have beaten DLH that night, maybe not as badly as Pac did but Hatton IMO would have beat him worseQuote:
Also was that the same shot Oscar De La Hoya who looked good against Mayweather and Steve Forbes? I am not saying he was what, he once was maybe even when he faced Floyd, but it was Pacquiao's greatness not De La Hoya's decline that was the reason he got his ass handed to him. Marquez wouldn't have been able to do that.
shows just how biased you are in fights that you have the nerve to say that neither Pac/Marquez fights were close:rolleyes:, Manny didn't in anyway dominate ANY part of the fights aside from maybe the first round in the first fight, how the hell would Marquez of lost in the rematch regardless of the knockdown, when he's won more rounds in both fights than Manny:confused:, take the semen out your eyes dude honestlyQuote:
Even if you had Pacquiao losing both fights to Marquez which due to terrible scoring, they would have still had to have been extremely close fights(within a round or two) and the second one even without the knockdown scored would have had to been very close.
You don't have to be delusional to think Marquez won the second one, but ElTerrible Pacquaio put a beatdown on Barrera in their first fight, Barrera didn't give him fits. Barrera might have won a round, maybe.
ok maybe i got a little carried away there ;D lol but i honestly think that if the Barrera/Pacquiao rematch would have happened sooner, he could have beaten PacQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
What do you think was the strong indication that Marco would have beaten Manny if the rematch have happen right away?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesok maybe i got a little carried away there ;D lol but i honestly think that if the Barrera/Pacquiao rematch would have happened sooner, he could have beaten PacQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
he looked a lot sharper in the fights that followed, and well by the time the rematch did happen Barrera already kinda looked out of it, not shot, just he didn't look as drivenQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaWhat do you think was the strong indication that Marco would have beaten Manny if the rematch have happen right away?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesok maybe i got a little carried away there ;D lol but i honestly think that if the Barrera/Pacquiao rematch would have happened sooner, he could have beaten PacQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
First fight: Pacquiao embarassed Barrera in front of his crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshe looked a lot sharper in the fights that followed, and well by the time the rematch did happen Barrera already kinda looked out of it, not shot, just he didn't look as drivenQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaWhat do you think was the strong indication that Marco would have beaten Manny if the rematch have happen right away?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Second fight: It was very conservative fight for Barrera, he just wanted to survive the night, and didn't really wanna engage until the late rounds where he got cut by a punch and penalized for hitting during the break.
Barrera didn't look that sharp to me against Juarez 1. He just boxed well in Juarez 2, that's pretty much it. Barrera was never a threat to Pacquiao because of their styles.
he looked plenty sharp in the Juarez rematch, boxed beautifully using his jab and straight rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaFirst fight: Pacquiao embarassed Barrera in front of his crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshe looked a lot sharper in the fights that followed, and well by the time the rematch did happen Barrera already kinda looked out of it, not shot, just he didn't look as drivenQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
Second fight: It was very conservative fight for Barrera, he just wanted to survive the night, and didn't really wanna engage until the late rounds where he got cut by a punch and penalized for hitting during the break.
Barrera didn't look that sharp to me against Juarez 1. He just boxed well in Juarez 2, that's pretty much it. Barrera was never a threat to Pacquiao because of their styles.
Elterrible, I said that PAcquia-Marquez I and II were close. Its people who say Pacquiao was dominated from the fourth round on that are full of shit. The second fight was close as well and very even, but there is just no way in my mind that Marquez could have won that, people give him the first round but Pacquiao landed twice as many punches in that round as Marquez did. I can definitely see a draw without the knockdown, but having Marquez ahead by 2 rounds without hte knockdown is mysterious to me.
Also Barrera was dominated the entire fight against PAcquiao except the first round but even there he got credited a knockdown in a situation where he didn't land a punch. It wouldn't have mattered when they fought, Barrera doesn't have Morales chin and he would have been taken out because PAcquiao only got better and still just as ferocious up until the second MOrales fight where he really started improving on his defense and balance.
Also Morales beat Pacquiao the first night, but it was highly competitive and they both took a lot of punches, I am not saying it wasn't unanimous, but winning by 2 rounds means its a close fight.
How did OScar look poor against Forbes? He neglected defense because he didn't need it due to FOrbes' lack of power, but he was throwing his jab beautifully, he was light on his feet, he was throwing good combinations. IMO he looked as good as he did when he KO'ed Mayorga 10x more impressively than Mosley did.
Forbes has great defensively skills, and is impossible to hurt, how can you expect Oscar to look exceptional against that? He had his speed, his desire to win, he showed stamina and a right hand.
I shouldn't have said people who think Marquez won against Pacquiao are delusional, but I get criticized for being a called fan boy because I think both fights were scored appropriately, yet people who have Marquez winning both fights aren't criticized at all even though Pacquiao in more eyes than not won the second fight. THe first fight htere was room for controversy, but the second fight IMO Pacquiao won a razor thin victory by a larger margin on the scorecard than the fight would have indicated because of hte knockdown.
Juarez isn't Pacquaio, Marquez dominated Juarez, but he couldn't dominate Pacquiao. Pacquiao had speed which Juarez didn't have, and Barrera was a little slower than Marquez who was just quick enough to capatalize on Manny's technical flaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshe looked plenty sharp in the Juarez rematch, boxed beautifully using his jab and straight rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaFirst fight: Pacquiao embarassed Barrera in front of his crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Second fight: It was very conservative fight for Barrera, he just wanted to survive the night, and didn't really wanna engage until the late rounds where he got cut by a punch and penalized for hitting during the break.
Barrera didn't look that sharp to me against Juarez 1. He just boxed well in Juarez 2, that's pretty much it. Barrera was never a threat to Pacquiao because of their styles.
To be fair, both Barrera and Pac looked pretty poor in the second fight. Neither fighter was willing to engage. If Barrera really wanted to he could have made a fight of that. Pac was not himself whatsoever in that fight. Barrera was seemingly going through the motions himself though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaFirst fight: Pacquiao embarassed Barrera in front of his crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshe looked a lot sharper in the fights that followed, and well by the time the rematch did happen Barrera already kinda looked out of it, not shot, just he didn't look as drivenQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
Second fight: It was very conservative fight for Barrera, he just wanted to survive the night, and didn't really wanna engage until the late rounds where he got cut by a punch and penalized for hitting during the break.
Barrera didn't look that sharp to me against Juarez 1. He just boxed well in Juarez 2, that's pretty much it. Barrera was never a threat to Pacquiao because of their styles.
A horrible fight to watch. I would never have expected it to be so dull.
Pacquiao controlled the whole fight and to my surprise actually outboxed Barrera, he showed better timing was the better counter puncher of the two and landed his left a number times both behind the jab and as a lead. I think Pacquiao let loose a few times after Barrera threw a flurry but usually kept a more level headed approach because he was finding it so easy to outbox Barrera.
Pac pretty much shut Barrera down. A classic performance. I was surprised there was a rematch. I didn't think Barrera had a gameplan to implement for victory... especially after losing to Marquez(although a very very competitive fight). THEN IT WAS PPV!!! BULLSH*T!Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
What (Teath) said above
I am sorry, but when people like ElTerrible start saying Pacquiao is probably the most proven fighter of this generation in terms of competition the outcome of his fight doesn't have the credentials to be considered great I find it laughable. He's beaten 4 guys who have all been in the top 5 p4p for an extended period of time.