What happens to the p4p list if Floyd Mayweather Jr. Returns beats Marquez conveniently and Pacquiao ko's Hatton. Or a say some other scenario happens?
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What happens to the p4p list if Floyd Mayweather Jr. Returns beats Marquez conveniently and Pacquiao ko's Hatton. Or a say some other scenario happens?
He'll replace Marquez's spot if that happens.
IMO he would have to beat Manny as long as Manny is fighting around his weightclass, or Manny would have to lose in order for Mayweather to go above him, I think even beating Marquez wouldn't be enough.
Personally, I have Marquez at #1 right now, but if Pacquiao beats Hatton there can be no denying him top spot, although if Floyd does come back and win well then I might have to re-consider between the two of them.
This was a good read on the subject.
Pound for Pound Dilemma: Who’s really #1? Mayweather or Pacquiao?
If they both win a daresay we will see a showdown between the 2 and then all questions will be answered.
Its alot if maybes right now.I have JMM at 1 and Pac 2nd,a win over Hatton puts him 1.They are the ones active and making big fights.As for Mayweather and what could,should,might happen,who really knows?
Complain all you want but Pacquiao beat Marquez, he isn't behind him, and shouldn't be in anyones p4p list. Casamayor was a shell of his prime self, yet despite the fact he was smaller, not as good to begin with, and put up a better fight against Marquez then Oscar did against Manny only furthers IMO the belief that Manny is better than JMM. Not only that but I know David Diaz isnt' as good as Juan Diaz, but JMM really didn't look superb against him, he looked good, but he was hurt several times and had he not stopped Juan Diaz it would have been close going in the scorecards, and he really wasn't dominating any of the rounds when IMO Pacquiao would dominated by midway against Juan.
P4P lists are like assholes, everyones got one.
It all boils down to you what you think it should be. If you like what the Ring Mag. will do then so be it.
If not then compile your own list and stick to it.
Taeth,
After Taylor beat Hopkins twice I saw many people placing Hop still as #1 because they felt Taylor didn't beat him. Which is reasonable if you can back it up.
I have JMM as #1 and I can back it up why I think he should be #1.
I've had him beating Pac twice by a close margins bothe times and I feel that his reign as a Lightweight is much more impressive then fighting David Diaz and ODLH.
With that being said if Pac beats Hatton (which I think he will) then trust me it WILL def. make Pac #1 with no questions asked from me. But again that's just me their might be someone out there who might still think that beating Hatton is not enough. When he comes around if you find him let me know so we can rip him to shreds together cause that would be absurd.
Thing is though if you insist on putting Marquez (or Hopkins after the Taylor defeats) at number 1 then you have to remove yourself from boxing reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Just because you personally thought a fight went the other way doesn't mean that the result is open to interperation. It's not, the result of a fight is final, its in the books and that's that whether you were happy with the decision or not.
To follow your own logic Juan Manuel Marquez isn't even a world champion at lightweight (unless you count a vacant wbo strap) as Casamayor was clearly not the linear champ Armando Santo Cruz was.
Edwin Valero is the true linear lightweight world champion as Pitalua took the crown from Santa Cruz and Valero destroyed Pitalua.
Hope this clears everything up.
Floyd will be P4P#1 soon enough if he comes back as he will beat JMM and Hatton or Pac easy enough.
I'm at the same place. Floyd has been inactive and Manny is coming off a great year for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Just set up the fight to settle it...
Makes perfect sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThing is though if you insist on putting Marquez (or Hopkins after the Taylor defeats) at number 1 then you have to remove yourself from boxing reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Just because you personally thought a fight went the other way doesn't mean that the result is open to interperation. It's not, the result of a fight is final, its in the books and that's that whether you were happy with the decision or not.
To follow your own logic Juan Manuel Marquez isn't even a world champion at lightweight (unless you count a vacant wbo strap) as Casamayor was clearly not the linear champ Armando Santo Cruz was.
Edwin Valero is the true linear lightweight world champion as Pitalua took the crown from Santa Cruz and Valero destroyed Pitalua.
Hope this clears everything up.
Anyone that currently rates Marquez as no.1 has no reason to remove him from the top spot if Pac beats Hatton.
Pac beating Hatton means Pac beat Hatton. It doesn't mean Pac can now beat Marquez. The only way Pac can rate above Marquez is if he beats him. Until then, whatever Pac does, as long as Marquez remains unbeaten, he will have to stay behind Marquez.
Pac has already beaten Marquez twice. The first one was supposed to be for pac had one of the judges not committed an error. Funny that they did not change the result even though the judge admitted the error. UNOFFICIALLY, Pac won against MArquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterMakes perfect sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboThing is though if you insist on putting Marquez (or Hopkins after the Taylor defeats) at number 1 then you have to remove yourself from boxing reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Just because you personally thought a fight went the other way doesn't mean that the result is open to interperation. It's not, the result of a fight is final, its in the books and that's that whether you were happy with the decision or not.
To follow your own logic Juan Manuel Marquez isn't even a world champion at lightweight (unless you count a vacant wbo strap) as Casamayor was clearly not the linear champ Armando Santo Cruz was.
Edwin Valero is the true linear lightweight world champion as Pitalua took the crown from Santa Cruz and Valero destroyed Pitalua.
Hope this clears everything up.
Anyone that currently rates Marquez as no.1 has no reason to remove him from the top spot if Pac beats Hatton.
Pac beating Hatton means Pac beat Hatton. It doesn't mean Pac can now beat Marquez. The only way Pac can rate above Marquez is if he beats him. Until then, whatever Pac does, as long as Marquez remains unbeaten, he will have to stay behind Marquez.
Second was very close but Pac had the nod of the judges so,OFFICIALLY, Pac is P4P #1.:cool::cool::cool:
No debate here.
Yes Pac officially has a draw and a win over Marquez. Going by official results it's fair to rate Pac higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceleePac has already beaten Marquez twice. The first one was supposed to be for pac had one of the judges not committed an error. Funny that they did not change the result even though the judge admitted the error. UNOFFICIALLY, Pac won against MArquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterMakes perfect sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Anyone that currently rates Marquez as no.1 has no reason to remove him from the top spot if Pac beats Hatton.
Pac beating Hatton means Pac beat Hatton. It doesn't mean Pac can now beat Marquez. The only way Pac can rate above Marquez is if he beats him. Until then, whatever Pac does, as long as Marquez remains unbeaten, he will have to stay behind Marquez.
Second was very close but Pac had the nod of the judges so,OFFICIALLY, Pac is P4P #1.:cool::cool::cool:
No debate here.
But P4P is mythical nonsense.
We don't need to guess the outcome should these two fight. We have evidence of them fighting in their pomp in their best weight divisions.
In my view Marquez beat Pac twice. How can I rate a fighter higher P4P over a guy that has beaten him in TWO different weight divisons?
So in the mythical nonsense that is pound-for-pound - Marquez MUST rate higher than Pac. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterYes Pac officially has a draw and a win over Marquez. Going by official results it's fair to rate Pac higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceleePac has already beaten Marquez twice. The first one was supposed to be for pac had one of the judges not committed an error. Funny that they did not change the result even though the judge admitted the error. UNOFFICIALLY, Pac won against MArquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Second was very close but Pac had the nod of the judges so,OFFICIALLY, Pac is P4P #1.:cool::cool::cool:
No debate here.
But P4P is mythical nonsense.
We don't need to guess the outcome should these two fight. We have evidence of them fighting in their pomp in their best weight divisions.
In my view Marquez beat Pac twice. How can I rate a fighter higher P4P over a guy that has beaten him in TWO different weight divisons?
So in the mythical nonsense that is pound-for-pound - Marquez MUST rate higher than Pac. ;)
But as long as you agree that this is just the mythical crazed Fenster/CutMeMick p4p rankings and not the Ring and officially recognised proper p4p rankings the its all well and good.
Of course Marquez still needs to beat Valero, the real linear champ and the man at 135.
by this time next month marquez will be p4p king with hatton and manny tussling over the 2nd spot!!
I don't believe such a thing exists?Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterYes Pac officially has a draw and a win over Marquez. Going by official results it's fair to rate Pac higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
But P4P is mythical nonsense.
We don't need to guess the outcome should these two fight. We have evidence of them fighting in their pomp in their best weight divisions.
In my view Marquez beat Pac twice. How can I rate a fighter higher P4P over a guy that has beaten him in TWO different weight divisons?
So in the mythical nonsense that is pound-for-pound - Marquez MUST rate higher than Pac. ;)
But as long as you agree that this is just the mythical crazed Fenster/CutMeMick p4p rankings and not the Ring and officially recognised proper p4p rankings the its all well and good.
Of course Marquez still needs to beat Valero, the real linear champ and the man at 135.
The Ring's list is just as crazed as Fensters.
I'll recognise the Saddo rankings even though they are clearly wrong. My list is the only correct one.. as any knowledgeable boxing person will agree. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI don't believe such a thing exists?Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
But as long as you agree that this is just the mythical crazed Fenster/CutMeMick p4p rankings and not the Ring and officially recognised proper p4p rankings the its all well and good.
Of course Marquez still needs to beat Valero, the real linear champ and the man at 135.
The Ring's list is just as crazed as Fensters.
I'll recognise the Saddo rankings even though they are clearly wrong. My list is the only correct one.. as any knowledgeable boxing person will agree. Fact.
i`ll second that fenst......
you are the guy that has david haye at #4 arent you
;D;D;D
No I don't have Haye at 4.
I can probably make a case for him though. ;D
Why because he fought an old Casamayor who went life and death with Katsidis, then beat Juan Diaz who already lost to Nate Campbell? If Juan fights Valero or Guzman, I will give him all the credit in the world, but fighting really close fights with Diaz and Casamayor as good as both fights looked doesn't ring of p4p #1 to me. These are guys a p4p#1 should be beating handily, maybe not dominating, but clearly imposing their will for the majority of the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Can you give me the rounds you gave to Marquez in the Second Pacquiao fight?
Which is why the first words in my post were;Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
"P4P lists are like assholes, everyones got one"
What is reality in boxing? I see reality in boxing through my own judgement. I will take a page here and there but not in it's entirety.
OK, that's logical and reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
However at no point did I mention him being a world champion.
My comment was;
"I feel that his reign as a Lightweight is much more impressive then fighting David Diaz and ODLH."
Along with having him beating Pac it puts him as #1 in my books.
Here's where the "Reality" part of boxing get's hazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Santa Cruz vs. Pitalua was for the WBC strap.
Would Pitalua have been rated #1,2 or the next top rated available Lightweight by the Ring then yes you would be correct but he wasn't.
So the lineage was lost somewhere along the lines.
Actually I hope I've brought the reality part of boxing to light here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Taeth I'm looking for my scorecard so don't think I'm ignoring you...