Hypothetically: Could Hatton Have Beat Paq?

If that punch had not landed?
Hatton went down twice in first rd, JMM went down 3 times and came back.
Please consider the following:

Hatton was landing on Paq, not an amazing amount, but he landed more in 2 rds than Oscar De La Hoya did in the entire fight. Paq has said that Hattons puches were hurtful.

Although Hatton went down in rd 1 twice, he had not gone down in rd 2, in my view he clearly was having more success in rd 2 than rd 1, although Paq clearly took the round.

Consider the fight was of an incredible pace which could not be sustained, I believe if Hatton had survived another 2 rounds, Paq would have slowed down giving Hatton a chance in the later rounds.

I am not saying Hatton would have won, all I am asking is would he have had a chance later on if Paq slowed down?

The fight was an incredible 7 minutes worth of action and to me showed me why no other sport could match it when at its best.

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Originally Posted by richard (mossley)

If that punch had not landed?
Hatton went down twice in first rd, JMM went down 3 times and came back.
Please consider the following:

Hatton was landing on Paq, not an amazing amount, but he landed more in 2 rds than Oscar De La Hoya did in the entire fight. Paq has said that Hattons puches were hurtful.

Although Hatton went down in rd 1 twice, he had not gone down in rd 2, in my view he clearly was having more success in rd 2 than rd 1, although Paq clearly took the round.

Consider the fight was of an incredible pace which could not be sustained, I believe if Hatton had survived another 2 rounds, Paq would have slowed down giving Hatton a chance in the later rounds.

I am not saying Hatton would have won, all I am asking is would he have had a chance later on if Paq slowed down?

The fight was an incredible 7 minutes worth of action and to me showed me why no other sport could match it when at its best.

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and in the fantasy land bunnies also eat sunshine a shit rainbows......

..i agree Hatton recovered well after the first and did pressure Manny a bit better than in the 1st, but he was still just as careless and was losing the round clearly even without the KO ending, i don't see it changing one bit seeing how Pacquiao has great stamina and doesn't tire that much in the later rounds, honestly if Manny hadn't Ko'd Hatton there he would have just cut him up or he would have won by TKO due to swelling, Hatton's eyes were already puffy by the end of the first

I don't think so, no not at all. Edit: technically anything could happen but its not likely.

Everything Pac was landing was effecting Ricky, and while JMM may have survived he's just a much tougher matchup for Manny. The way Ricky was coming in, head up, hands only half up, leading with left hooks Manny could counter easily makes me think Manny would have just landed too much and Hatton would have eventually not been able to take it.

Also Manny's in great shape, it would take a lot for him to wilt.

yeah he did hurt Pac in the second but the trouble is Pac dosn't slow down.

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Originally Posted by Saddo

yeah he did hurt Pac in the second but the trouble is Pac dosn't slow down.

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exactly, all i think that Ricky hurting Pac proved is that Cotto and Mosley at 147 are too much for him, IMO they hit a hell of alot harder, and are far more skilled

Did he really hurt Manny much in that round, I didn't notice it live, maybe Manny mentioned it.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Did he really hurt Manny much in that round, I didn't notice it live, maybe Manny mentioned it.

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he didn't rock the hell out of him, but Manny wobbled a bit, and said himself that Hatton hit VERY hard, both Cotto and Mosley hit harder than Hatton

Pac could have sliced and diced Hatton's face if the fight went the distance. Hatton fans should be grateful. Pac gave him the quick and merciful KO.

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Originally Posted by ASIAN SENSATION

Pac could have sliced and diced Hatton's face if the fight went the distance. Hatton fans should be grateful. Pac gave him the quick and merciful KO.

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yea lets not go there.....all i gotta say is you're starting to push it a bit, and i'm no Hatton fan

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by ASIAN SENSATION

Pac could have sliced and diced Hatton's face if the fight went the distance. Hatton fans should be grateful. Pac gave him the quick and merciful KO.

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yea lets not go there.....all i gotta say is you're starting to push it a bit, and i'm no Hatton fan

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In the 2nd round, Hatton was like a mouse dying in his hiding hole after receiving the Pac venom in 1st round. Ref bayless even admitted that he was gonna stop the fight after the 2nd KD. REFEREE BAYLESS: HATTON GONE IN FIRST ROUND And I'm glad he did not cuz it would've been a controversial win for Pac. :)

In a hypothetical world, Yea, Pac could have ran into a shot from Hatton that could have Ko'd him. That can happen to any fighter.

But in the real world Hatton challenged Pacquiao with his brute strength and got knocked out cold for it. I had predicted Hatton to lasting until the 7th or 8th but I have to say after seeing that fight, I wrong big time. Had Hatton come out with a defensive/offensive mind set using the Jab to get close, Pacquiao's right hook was just too fast for Hatton and I think Roach had it right.

From what I saw, when Hatton hit Manny with the right hand with 2:36 left in the second, he was also standing on Manny's foot. Manny pulled back and semi tripped, but when right back in for more.

Well Pac does tries to remain humble and gives out some credit dispite throughly dominating his opponents, he did say the same thing about Oscar. People said there was no way he would be able to move up and be successful after being rocked by Larios and look
what happens ... dispite that I think he should go no where near Mosely or Cotto , one clean power punch from either these guys
either to the body or head WOULD hurt Manny, no doubt.

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

From what I saw, when Hatton hit Manny with the right hand with 2:36 left in the second, he was also standing on Manny's foot. Manny pulled back and semi tripped, but when right back in for more.

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i missed that and thought he was hurt slightly... cheers for posting that as i totally missed the foot... good eye ;)

will look for that the next time i watch the fight.

I think if Hatton had of made it through the second round he might have lasted about another minute through the 3rd.;D

I thought the first few rounds were Ricky's only shot.

#1 Both Hatton and Manny fade late in fights

#2 Manny is really quick and hard to time once he gets his rhythm

#3 We all know of Ricky's trouble with weight between bouts, it has NEVER helped him

#4 Ricky has/had a new trainer and if he had to rely on what he learned for an entire bout to win then he was at a sumpreme disadvantage.

Ricky could have won a few rounds here and there but out of 100 fights I think Ricky might have won 20 against Pacquiao and that's being generous. Pacquiao seems unstoppable at the moment, I know he isn't but my mind and my eyes tell me otherwise.

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Originally Posted by LEGION

I think if Hatton had of made it through the second round he might have lasted about another minute through the 3rd.;D

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i wish he had of... i picked Pac to win via KO 3 in the forum prediction contest.... i was one second out :(

Hatton kept his hands up about as well as this guy does. No way he could have won the fight.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWs5q9s7Sjk

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Originally Posted by Saddo

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Originally Posted by LEGION

I think if Hatton had of made it through the second round he might have lasted about another minute through the 3rd.;D

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i wish he had of... i picked Pac to win via KO 3 in the forum prediction contest.... i was one second out :(

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Damn that Ricky:furious2:;D JK that was a sad sight to see:p

Yes - Hatton could have beaten Pac if he had knocked him out

But he wouldn't have been able to cope with the speed and though he hurt Pac the once , Pac's punches seemed to be doing damage every time they connected. And Saddo said it - he doesn't slow down.

Had he survived the second it was just a matter of time.


Although I didn't think Hatton was truly elite I never thought he would be a two round victim for anyone out there :-\

It's sad but Hatton was KO'd so bad they could have started and ended Round 3 and he would have still been out on the canvas....That was one of those "Did I at least come in second" KO's

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Originally Posted by Saddo

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

From what I saw, when Hatton hit Manny with the right hand with 2:36 left in the second, he was also standing on Manny's foot. Manny pulled back and semi tripped, but when right back in for more.

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i missed that and thought he was hurt slightly... cheers for posting that as i totally missed the foot... good eye ;)

will look for that the next time i watch the fight.

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Well you could not really see it, but it looked that way. I mean he could have very well got buzzed by the shot as it was a good one, buy he looked like he was pulling his right leg back trying to get his balance.

I need a better quality video!hehe

I have to be honest, Hatton looked better in the second round and seemed to calm down from being so wild in the first. However the poor defense was still there and it was just a matter of time before Pacquiao connected again as he was so open. So no, Hatton wouldn't have beat him.

hypothetically hanna montana can beat pac, the difference between this fight and the oscar fight was oscar kept up his hands without that oscar would have gotten ko'ed too. He would have still won if hatton was wearing head gear, manny threw one punch that landed on hattons glove and he still went down, one guy was just better that's all.

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Originally Posted by richard (mossley)

If that punch had not landed?
Hatton went down twice in first rd, JMM went down 3 times and came back.
Please consider the following:

Hatton was landing on Paq, not an amazing amount, but he landed more in 2 rds than Oscar De La Hoya did in the entire fight. Paq has said that Hattons puches were hurtful.

Although Hatton went down in rd 1 twice, he had not gone down in rd 2, in my view he clearly was having more success in rd 2 than rd 1, although Paq clearly took the round.

Consider the fight was of an incredible pace which could not be sustained, I believe if Hatton had survived another 2 rounds, Paq would have slowed down giving Hatton a chance in the later rounds.

I am not saying Hatton would have won, all I am asking is would he have had a chance later on if Paq slowed down?

The fight was an incredible 7 minutes worth of action and to me showed me why no other sport could match it when at its best.

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Answer: no way, he was getting badly out boxed. People don't realize that even though he was wide open for the right hook than Hatton's hand placement allowed him to see the left cross which Cotto wouldn't see coming, and if he changed his hand placement he would have been nailed by that left hand, and if he continued the same way Pacquiao would have picked him apart wiht the right hook, but you already saw Pacman almost land that same punch twice before he did, and it was only a matter of time, he had Hatton's timing down from the get go, and it was easy to see that it was going to end early.

Hatton could of never beaten Pacquiao.

Hatton never hurt Pacquiao, He made Pacquiao trip abit in round 2 after he stood on his foot and exchanged with him but it was clear Pacquiao was fine.

I think Its clear that Hatton's lifestyle has caught up with him.

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Originally Posted by Mar

hypothetically hanna montana can beat pac, the difference between this fight and the oscar fight was oscar kept up his hands without that oscar would have gotten ko'ed too. He would have still won if hatton was wearing head gear, manny threw one punch that landed on hattons glove and he still went down, one guy was just better that's all.

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You saw that too? ;D

Yes. It was the 2nd knockdown. The straight left hand.

Well richard (mossley) if my grandma had wings she'd be a bird...

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Originally Posted by Lyle

#2 Manny is really quick and hard to time once he gets his rhythm

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JMM has been able to time and counter Manny the best from any of his opponents.
The way to beat Manny is with ring smarts, controlled fight and counter.
Mannys a brawler with good skills but it's been evident that he can be outboxed Rickys style or for that matter the straight forward style is taylor made for Manny.

Ring smarts? Maybe but the thing is..manny has now got ring smarts too. According to Freddie Roach, he now executes the fight plan to perfection. He has only said that of him the past 3 fights (Diaz, dela Hoya and Hatton).

So Manny has continuously improved and is getting smarter every fight. Ring smarts will only work if its not countered by another strategy.

I see Roach and Manny studying either PBF or Marquez and executing a fight plan maybe to perfection. As I have said in my previous posts, many people opined that Manny's most difficult fights were with counter punchers. I look at it differently. I think Manny's previous style made it very difficult for counter punchers. Let's analyze the Marquez/Pacquiao. Marquez could have easily won given his counter punching ways but he had a difficult time with Manny. That was with the old Manny P. Given Manny's new skills, I think he will give Marquez more problems as well. Will Marquez win? Maybe but I will put my money on Pacman solidly this time. Same with PBF but only at 140.

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Originally Posted by halo1

Ring smarts? Maybe but the thing is..manny has now got ring smarts too. According to Freddie Roach, he now executes the fight plan to perfection. He has only said that of him the past 3 fights (Diaz, dela Hoya and Hatton).

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Well halo1 theirs a difference between the ring smarts as described by Roach that Manny has and the smarts that JMM has shown for many years. If you've followed boxing for years you can clearly see and know what I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by halo1

So Manny has continuously improved and is getting smarter every fight. Ring smarts will only work if its not countered by another strategy.

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That is true Manny has improvesd and is getting smarter.
Well halo1 ring smarts have won JMM more rounds then Pac has won in both fights.

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Originally Posted by halo1

I see Roach and Manny studying either PBF or Marquez and executing a fight plan maybe to perfection. As I have said in my previous posts, many people opined that Manny's most difficult fights were with counter punchers. I look at it differently. I think Manny's previous style made it very difficult for counter punchers.

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You can't be serious?
Every brawler/fighter Pac has faced he's knocked out.
Everytime Pac has faced a boxer or someone who moves and uses the ring he's had to work for it and or has had difficulties, not necessarly with the fighter it could be just himself.

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Originally Posted by halo1

Let's analyze the Marquez/Pacquiao. Marquez could have easily won given his counter punching ways but he had a difficult time with Manny. That was with the old Manny P.

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That was the old Manny?
The won that fought JMM last year.
Manny has looked great no doubt but as I discussed prior to your arrival to this site and around the time the ODLH fight was announced and the Diaz fight those 2 performances didn't mean much to me as I predicted prior to the fights Pac would beat both with ease.
Manny looked great vs. ODLH because let's face it is was corpse up there in the ring a boxer who was done and had no business fighting at 147 even more so. The Diaz fight was nothing more then a gimmie/set up fight now the Hatton 2 round destruction was amazing.

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Originally Posted by halo1

Given Manny's new skills, I think he will give Marquez more problems as well. Will Marquez win? Maybe but I will put my money on Pacman solidly this time. Same with PBF but only at 140.

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Time is what will eventually beat JMM the more time passes the easier it will be for Manny to defeat JMM.
JMM is a veteran who IMO is down to possibly 3 fights more then it'll be time. Considering now he's fighting PBF he's probably down to 2 fights.
I really don't think he can beat PBF but god will I use up all my prayers for him to do it.

JMM-Pac III needs to happen and with a JMM win we can see fight IV, followed with another JMM win and we will see fight V and this will go down as the greatest EVER matchup in sports history.
I can dream can't I. ;D
(Notice how I didn't predict a winner for the final bout, I'm not that big of a JMM-Nut hugger ;) )

MICK, Marquez and Pacquiao were made for each other. No matter how great Pacquiao can look or can potentially be, Marquez will always give him the fight of his life!

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Originally Posted by richard (mossley)

If that punch had not landed?
Hatton went down twice in first rd, JMM went down 3 times and came back.Please consider the following:

Hatton was landing on Paq, not an amazing amount, but he landed more in 2 rds than Oscar De La Hoya did in the entire fight. Paq has said that Hattons puches were hurtful.

Although Hatton went down in rd 1 twice, he had not gone down in rd 2, in my view he clearly was having more success in rd 2 than rd 1, although Paq clearly took the round.

Consider the fight was of an incredible pace which could not be sustained, I believe if Hatton had survived another 2 rounds, Paq would have slowed down giving Hatton a chance in the later rounds.

I am not saying Hatton would have won, all I am asking is would he have had a chance later on if Paq slowed down?

The fight was an incredible 7 minutes worth of action and to me showed me why no other sport could match it when at its best.

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-Yes Hatton went down twice which was less than Marquez did. But Hatton isn't no counter punching machine like Marquez was.

-Pac doesnt slow down. He get stronger as the fight progresses.

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Originally Posted by Mar

hypothetically hanna montana can beat pac, the difference between this fight and the oscar fight was oscar kept up his hands without that oscar would have gotten ko'ed too. He would have still won if hatton was wearing head gear, manny threw one punch that landed on hattons glove and he still went down, one guy was just better that's all.

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Damn MAR!

I really thought that Hatton had a very decent shot at beating Manny going into this.

At the end of the day you cannot argue with being put to sleep in the second. But Hatton did fight a very stupid fight tactically and I don't think that was the best Ricky Hatton I have ever seen. But that is neither here nor there. Hatton really should have pushed Manny a lot harder than he did, and yet he was wiped out in a way that makes even David Diaz look good.

He was destroyed and I don't see the point in the hypothetical argument really. You can argue things like Barrera: Khan but not a fight like Hatton: Pac.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by halo1

Ring smarts? Maybe but the thing is..manny has now got ring smarts too. According to Freddie Roach, he now executes the fight plan to perfection. He has only said that of him the past 3 fights (Diaz, dela Hoya and Hatton).

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Well halo1 theirs a difference between the ring smarts as described by Roach that Manny has and the smarts that JMM has shown for many years. If you've followed boxing for years you can clearly see and know what I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by halo1

So Manny has continuously improved and is getting smarter every fight. Ring smarts will only work if its not countered by another strategy.

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That is true Manny has improvesd and is getting smarter.
Well halo1 ring smarts have won JMM more rounds then Pac has won in both fights.


You can't be serious?
Every brawler/fighter Pac has faced he's knocked out.
Everytime Pac has faced a boxer or someone who moves and uses the ring he's had to work for it and or has had difficulties, not necessarly with the fighter it could be just himself.

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Originally Posted by halo1

Let's analyze the Marquez/Pacquiao. Marquez could have easily won given his counter punching ways but he had a difficult time with Manny. That was with the old Manny P.

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That was the old Manny?
The won that fought JMM last year.
Manny has looked great no doubt but as I discussed prior to your arrival to this site and around the time the ODLH fight was announced and the Diaz fight those 2 performances didn't mean much to me as I predicted prior to the fights Pac would beat both with ease.
Manny looked great vs. ODLH because let's face it is was corpse up there in the ring a boxer who was done and had no business fighting at 147 even more so. The Diaz fight was nothing more then a gimmie/set up fight now the Hatton 2 round destruction was amazing.

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Originally Posted by halo1

Given Manny's new skills, I think he will give Marquez more problems as well. Will Marquez win? Maybe but I will put my money on Pacman solidly this time. Same with PBF but only at 140.

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Time is what will eventually beat JMM the more time passes the easier it will be for Manny to defeat JMM.
JMM is a veteran who IMO is down to possibly 3 fights more then it'll be time. Considering now he's fighting PBF he's probably down to 2 fights.
I really don't think he can beat PBF but god will I use up all my prayers for him to do it.

JMM-Pac III needs to happen and with a JMM win we can see fight IV, followed with another JMM win and we will see fight V and this will go down as the greatest EVER matchup in sports history.
I can dream can't I. ;D
(Notice how I didn't predict a winner for the final bout, I'm not that big of a JMM-Nut hugger ;) )

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I totally agree with you when it comes to the ring smarts of JMM. He is probably one of the smartest and most polished boxers of this era...maybe of all time you can argue. However, given that, he still had difficulty with Manny. Its all about point of view. Look at it from Marquez' standpoint. Marquez: I know I am more polished, better boxer and have more "ring smarts" than Manny. But why cant I finish him or make my fights with him a convincing win?

Yes, Manny had difficulty both times with Marquez. But its like a student having difficulty with the master. The master Marquez cant seem to put the student Pacman away. Marquez in my belief has reached his potential (and very few people do). Manny is just about proving to everyone that he is something special and still has a lot to show for. That is what makes him dangerous.

So, in my opinion, it is unfair to to equate a master boxer with a student fighter. Again no argument as to the ring smarts of Marquez. I am sure Marquez did a double take after the fight with Hatton. He will study and apply ring smarts in hopefully his next fight with Pacman. But how do you prepare for someone who is still evolving? Answer: Marquez will adjust in the later rounds. However, do you think he will reach the later rounds in time to adjust? I really dont know. Every stable mate of Oscar dela Hoya said Manny is predictable and easy to hit. Maybe the Manny of old. Not now.

Yes Pacman JMM needs to happen. Whoever wins will truly be the top honcho in the pound for pound list (that is if Marquez wins his fight with PB).

By the way, I have been a member of this forum for the since 2005-2006 using a slightly different nickname (halo). Unfortunately I forgot my old password. I am nothing compared to you though, Mr. Moderator. You are a master and I am a student.

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Originally Posted by halo1

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by halo1

Ring smarts? Maybe but the thing is..manny has now got ring smarts too. According to Freddie Roach, he now executes the fight plan to perfection. He has only said that of him the past 3 fights (Diaz, dela Hoya and Hatton).

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Well halo1 theirs a difference between the ring smarts as described by Roach that Manny has and the smarts that JMM has shown for many years. If you've followed boxing for years you can clearly see and know what I'm talking about.


That is true Manny has improvesd and is getting smarter.
Well halo1 ring smarts have won JMM more rounds then Pac has won in both fights.


You can't be serious?
Every brawler/fighter Pac has faced he's knocked out.
Everytime Pac has faced a boxer or someone who moves and uses the ring he's had to work for it and or has had difficulties, not necessarly with the fighter it could be just himself.


That was the old Manny?
The won that fought JMM last year.
Manny has looked great no doubt but as I discussed prior to your arrival to this site and around the time the ODLH fight was announced and the Diaz fight those 2 performances didn't mean much to me as I predicted prior to the fights Pac would beat both with ease.
Manny looked great vs. ODLH because let's face it is was corpse up there in the ring a boxer who was done and had no business fighting at 147 even more so. The Diaz fight was nothing more then a gimmie/set up fight now the Hatton 2 round destruction was amazing.

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Originally Posted by halo1

Given Manny's new skills, I think he will give Marquez more problems as well. Will Marquez win? Maybe but I will put my money on Pacman solidly this time. Same with PBF but only at 140.

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Time is what will eventually beat JMM the more time passes the easier it will be for Manny to defeat JMM.
JMM is a veteran who IMO is down to possibly 3 fights more then it'll be time. Considering now he's fighting PBF he's probably down to 2 fights.
I really don't think he can beat PBF but god will I use up all my prayers for him to do it.

JMM-Pac III needs to happen and with a JMM win we can see fight IV, followed with another JMM win and we will see fight V and this will go down as the greatest EVER matchup in sports history.
I can dream can't I. ;D
(Notice how I didn't predict a winner for the final bout, I'm not that big of a JMM-Nut hugger ;) )

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I totally agree with you when it comes to the ring smarts of JMM. He is probably one of the smartest and most polished boxers of this era...maybe of all time you can argue. However, given that, he still had difficulty with Manny. Its all about point of view. Look at it from Marquez' standpoint. Marquez: I know I am more polished, better boxer and have more "ring smarts" than Manny. But why cant I finish him or make my fights with him a convincing win?

Yes, Manny had difficulty both times with Marquez. But its like a student having difficulty with the master. The master Marquez cant seem to put the student Pacman away. Marquez in my belief has reached his potential (and very few people do). Manny is just about proving to everyone that he is something special and still has a lot to show for. That is what makes him dangerous.

So, in my opinion, it is unfair to to equate a master boxer with a student fighter. Again no argument as to the ring smarts of Marquez. I am sure Marquez did a double take after the fight with Hatton. He will study and apply ring smarts in hopefully his next fight with Pacman. But how do you prepare for someone who is still evolving? Answer: Marquez will adjust in the later rounds. However, do you think he will reach the later rounds in time to adjust? I really dont know. Every stable mate of Oscar dela Hoya said Manny is predictable and easy to hit. Maybe the Manny of old. Not now.

Yes Pacman JMM needs to happen. Whoever wins will truly be the top honcho in the pound for pound list (that is if Marquez wins his fight with PB).

By the way, I have been a member of this forum for the since 2005-2006 using a slightly different nickname (halo). Unfortunately I forgot my old password. I am nothing compared to you though, Mr. Moderator. You are a master and I am a student.

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i'm sure all the grandmasters of chess thought the same thing of teenager bobby fischer, when he kicked their ass repeatedly.

only two things can slow pac down, a heavy bleeding cut and low quality socks!

he still wouldnt last cause hatton went back to his old style and that is perfect for pac. hatton admitted that the first punch pac threw hurt him already.