Yes or No Poll regarding Catchweights

If a potential mega fight betweeen two fighters from different weight classes can be made only at catchweight, with neither fighter willing to go to the other fighter's weight class because he is too small or too big would you rather they fought at an agreed catchweight so we can enjoy the spectacle and ultimate goal of our sport to see the best fight the best or would you rather the fight did not take place at all than to see the traditions of weight classes so violated?


Also a secondary question to ponder. Why is it when two fighters in different weight classes could meet, its always assumed that its the little guys responsibility to move UP and not for the other fighter to move down? Is not the responsibility upon the two EQUAL? If Manny is regarded as universally p4p number 1 then why should any weight agreement involve him being a 'man' and moving up, and not the other guys being 'men' and giving up some weight?

And if the bigger fighter does not believe he can safely lose the weight, or that by doing so he gives up too much, what is actually wrong with them meeting halfway to ensure the fight still happens?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

If a potential mega fight betweeen two fighters from different weight classes can be made only at catchweight, with neither fighter willing to go to the other fighter's weight class because he is too small or too big would you rather they fought at an agreed catchweight or would you rather the fight did not take place at all?

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Honestly... I''d rather it not take place.

I would like to see Crusierweight and Super Middleweight go away. Too many choices.

Getting rid of Jr. Batamweight and Jr. Flyweight wouldn't be a bad idea either.


Sorry. I clicked edit instead of quote.

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

If a potential mega fight betweeen two fighters from different weight classes can be made only at catchweight, with neither fighter willing to go to the other fighter's weight class because he is too small or too big would you rather they fought at an agreed catchweight or would you rather the fight did not take place at all?

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Honestly... I''d rather it not take place.

I would like to see Crusierweight and Super Middleweight go away. Too many choices.

Getting rid of Jr. Batamweight and Jr. Flyweight wouldn't be a bad idea either.


Sorry. I clicked edit instead of quote.

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So you think it's more important to have set weight classes than for fighters to fight at the best weight?

In the case of the supermiddleweight division for example you'd rather guys like Bute, Froch, Kessler, Andrade et al were to fight at a less than ideal weight class, where their potential is not fully realised and we wouldn't get to appreciate them fighting at 100% than you would have to put up with another weight class?

What I'm saying is what's more important. The best fighters fighting at their best weights to give us the best and most competitive fights or to force fighters to fit in with fixed weight classes?

I mean who is the sport for ultimately, the boxers and fans and having the best fights, or traditions and weight class rules?

Don't you think its putting the cart in front of the horse?

And honestly, if Cotto versus Pacquaio happens at 143 you won't be watching it?

to be honest if it gets a fight made that i want to see and none of the fighters are at too much of a disadvantage then i think its ok

I voted YES. But it should be a non-title.

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Originally Posted by ASIAN SENSATION

I voted YES. But it should be a non-title.

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i agree

If DelaHoya and Hopkins fought for the Middleweight championship at 158 lbs. instead of 160 pound limit then why can't Pacquiao-Cotto fight in a catchweight?

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Originally Posted by Pavlik

If DelaHoya and Hopkins fought for the Middleweight championship at 158 lbs. instead of 160 pound limit then why can't Pacquiao-Cotto fight in a catchweight?

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Because besides Pacman fans no one likes Pacman. And the reason is their fans.

Of course this also applies to other fighter's fan base too. But that's the reason, a lot of people hate Pacman because of his fans so it's not okay for him to fight at a catchweight but other guys have.

You guys can blame yourself for it. Although a lot of boxing fans don't like Hatton and Khan also. Another uninformed fanbase.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Pavlik

If DelaHoya and Hopkins fought for the Middleweight championship at 158 lbs. instead of 160 pound limit then why can't Pacquiao-Cotto fight in a catchweight?

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Because besides Pacman fans no one likes Pacman. And the reason is their fans.

Of course this also applies to other fighter's fan base too. But that's the reason, a lot of people hate Pacman because of his fans so it's not okay for him to fight at a catchweight but other guys have.

You guys can blame yourself for it. Although a lot of boxing fans don't like Hatton and Khan also. Another uninformed fanbase.

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Well i like and respect Manny Pacquiao, even though im a fan of JMM. I still admire the amount of balls Manny Pacquiao is showing taking all these fights, and i love his exciting style.

I can't really understand how anyone couldn't like Manny Pacquiao, obviously alot of his fans are going to go. Over the top because they haven't really got alot of sporting greats at the moment.

And thats no disrespect to the Filipino people, by the way and im no expert on your country. So if im wrong please tell me but thats what i think anyway.

So i now i've just learnt to excuse some of his fans, and just enjoy what a great fighter we have at the moment. I mean the amount of titles he's won at all those weightclasses is incredible.

You may not see a fighter like this for years or maybe even decades to come, so enjoy it while your in this era. And don't be silly enough to let the fans spoil your enjoyment for a fighter.

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Originally Posted by paddy448

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Originally Posted by ASIAN SENSATION

I voted YES. But it should be a non-title.

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i agree

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As an absolute minimum requirement ;D

I would rather they didn't (I voted NO) but i guess you cant help some people :rolleyes:

I voted no because I really don't see the point in catch weights. We have a perfectly good system in place. If a fighter cannot fight at 147 then just clean up at 140. I find the example of Pac possibly fighting Cotto at 143/144 so cynical and just don't think that type of thing adds anything to the sport.In that case I would prefer the fight not to happen and for Pac to chase smaller purses at 140 instead. Now if he was willing go up to the next weight properly then that would be cool, but if he can't do that then I don't see the point.

I dont mind if its a rare occasion...

Most are growing quite weary of Manny "Pander for Catchweight' Pacquiao

If you wanna fight the best in the higher weight class than fight that fighter were he is strongest, he's already making a living at that weight and is flourishing. If not than stay in your own weight class.

It's really quite simple.. The rigors an bigger guy has to go thru to boil down in weight leaves him drained and not as vibrant or 100% The guy moving up can diet better and not deprive himself of the substance and fortitude his body needs to operate at optimal level. There is no abuse of dehydrate, steam rooms, no water. Etc

Like I said an occasional Catchweight is fine but when a fighter and his trainer are trying to blatantly cheat history by chooching a 7th title from a weaken drained fighter is pathetic and exhausting

I'd say if they want to call it a title fight, then don't have the catchweight. If PAC is saying he can't compete at welterweight so he needs a catchweight, then he has no business fighting for a welterweight title. And this so called record he sets by being in a champ in another division really won't have much meaning. I suppose a catchweight is ok if they call it a non-title fight, except I don't think it is good for the sport to have a champion fight a non-title fight. Problem is imo that a fighter demanding a catchweight usually indicates they think they are bigger than the sport, and that's never a good thing.

So I say no.

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

I dont mind if its a rare occasion...

Most are growing quite weary of Manny "Pander for Catchweight' Pacquiao

If you wanna fight the best in the higher weight class than fight that fighter were he is strongest, he's already making a living at that weight and is flourishing. If not than stay in your own weight class.

It's really quite simple.. The rigors an bigger guy has to go thru to boil down in weight leaves him drained and not as vibrant or 100% The guy moving up can diet better and not deprive himself of the substance and fortitude his body needs to operate at optimal level. There is no abuse of dehydrate, steam rooms, no water. Etc

Like I said an occasional Catchweight is fine but when a fighter and his trainer are trying to blatantly cheat history by chooching a 7th title from a weaken drained fighter is pathetic and exhausting

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I'm pretty sure all of the members here pretty much know that I'm not a Pacman fan. But when did he ever fought at a catch weight? The Oscar fight? That was at a 147 pound limit. Oscar and Pacman was 3 weight classes apart. So they met at the welterweight limit. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a guy to jump 3 weight classes. No boxing fan would want any fighter to jump from 135 to 154 for a mega fight, for it would be too one sided of a fight.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Pavlik

If DelaHoya and Hopkins fought for the Middleweight championship at 158 lbs. instead of 160 pound limit then why can't Pacquiao-Cotto fight in a catchweight?

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Because besides Pacman fans no one likes Pacman. And the reason is their fans.

Of course this also applies to other fighter's fan base too. But that's the reason, a lot of people hate Pacman because of his fans so it's not okay for him to fight at a catchweight but other guys have.

You guys can blame yourself for it. Although a lot of boxing fans don't like Hatton and Khan also. Another uninformed fanbase.

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Well i like and respect Manny Pacquiao, even though im a fan of JMM. I still admire the amount of balls Manny Pacquiao is showing taking all these fights, and i love his exciting style.

I can't really understand how anyone couldn't like Manny Pacquiao, obviously alot of his fans are going to go. Over the top because they haven't really got alot of sporting greats at the moment.

And thats no disrespect to the Filipino people, by the way and im no expert on your country. So if im wrong please tell me but thats what i think anyway.

So i now i've just learnt to excuse some of his fans, and just enjoy what a great fighter we have at the moment. I mean the amount of titles he's won at all those weightclasses is incredible.

You may not see a fighter like this for years or maybe even decades to come, so enjoy it while your in this era. And don't be silly enough to let the fans spoil your enjoyment for a fighter.

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The Manny Pacquiaos aren't really that rare in my opinion. We tend to have a few in every decade of the sport. Roy Jones started his career at 154 and then went on to win every title in his division including one of the alphabet HW titles. Oscar won titles starting at 130 all the way to 160. Floyd won titles at 130 all the way to 154. Duran won titles as a LW all the way to middleweight.

Pacman has a good career, but nothing unique.

I voted hell no, stop letting these guys pansy around avoiding fights. They should for one have a purse for these fights winner gets a lot looser gets a little. No 1 should always be fighting no 2 etc and so forth. No more people like hopkins taking up a spot in a weightclass looking for the biggest money fight anywhere across the board instead of just letting dawson get in that old ass. All these catchweights are freakin silly. Next guys will be wanting to make fights with one guy on his knees and shit to try and make it fair, then the old one arm behind the back thing wont be far behind. Wanna know why boxing was better back in the day look at all the silly shit they do now and charge us for compared to what they did back then....which was just fight. No Bs 24/7 crap needed to get people to watch.

This fight can be at a catchweight, but again, unless both have the opportunity to meet at the 147 limit, the fight should not be for the Welterweight title.

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

Honestly... I''d rather it not take place.

I would like to see Crusierweight and Super Middleweight go away. Too many choices.

Getting rid of Jr. Batamweight and Jr. Flyweight wouldn't be a bad idea either.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

So you think it's more important to have set weight classes than for fighters to fight at the best weight?

In the case of the supermiddleweight division for example you'd rather guys like Bute, Froch, Kessler, Andrade et al were to fight at a less than ideal weight class, where their potential is not fully realised and we wouldn't get to appreciate them fighting at 100% than you would have to put up with another weight class?.

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I think Cruiserweight helped ruin the heavyweight divison. It made it okay for all the heavys to be overweight and sloppy. Besides, The Cruisers all seem to wind up as heavyweights eventually. Great fights are lost when fighters hide between lightheavy and heavy weights.

As far as Kessler and them... They could fight at 168. Lightheavy is in the runnin' for best divison in boxiing history

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I mean who is the sport for ultimately, the boxers and fans and having the best fights, or traditions and weight class rules?

Don't you think its putting the cart in front of the horse?

And honestly, if Cotto versus Pacquaio happens at 143 you won't be watching it?

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LOL Oh, I'll watch it! :box3:

I am for catch weight over some conditions; First, a catch weight must be a catch weight, not a stupid trap to take significant advantage over a named opponent. Second, a fighter should not make a career fighting catch weights, it should be something occasional to allow some interesting events to happen. When these things are over abused or when it privileges a boxer too much, it losts all its sense.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

And honestly, if Cotto versus Pacquaio happens at 143 you won't be watching it?

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

LOL Oh, I'll watch it! :box3:

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It's like when two of your buddies are about to fight. At first you remind them that it's a bad idea, but at some point you say,

"Let 'em fight."

I am fine with the catchweights if it helps get great fighters in the ring together. Who cares if it is 143 or 147, as long as you are going to see some great fighters in the ring....The bonus of the catchweight is it basically says F-you to the sanctioning bodies who are useless corrupt a-holes anyway.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

I dont mind if its a rare occasion...

Most are growing quite weary of Manny "Pander for Catchweight' Pacquiao

If you wanna fight the best in the higher weight class than fight that fighter were he is strongest, he's already making a living at that weight and is flourishing. If not than stay in your own weight class.

It's really quite simple.. The rigors an bigger guy has to go thru to boil down in weight leaves him drained and not as vibrant or 100% The guy moving up can diet better and not deprive himself of the substance and fortitude his body needs to operate at optimal level. There is no abuse of dehydrate, steam rooms, no water. Etc

Like I said an occasional Catchweight is fine but when a fighter and his trainer are trying to blatantly cheat history by chooching a 7th title from a weaken drained fighter is pathetic and exhausting

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I'm pretty sure all of the members here pretty much know that I'm not a Pacman fan. But when did he ever fought at a catch weight? The Oscar fight? That was at a 147 pound limit. Oscar and Pacman was 3 weight classes apart. So they met at the welterweight limit. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a guy to jump 3 weight classes. No boxing fan would want any fighter to jump from 135 to 154 for a mega fight, for it would be too one sided of a fight.

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UH No, I'm talking about Pac and Roach wanting Cotto and Mosely at catchweight or no fight.. DLH was fine at 147 but not those guys???

Roach said he would fight Floyd at 147, how come not the rest???

He already stated he wouldnt let pac fight at a weight disadvantage... then why try to call out a Welter then?

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

This fight can be at a catchweight, but again, unless both have the opportunity to meet at the 147 limit, the fight should not be for the Welterweight title.

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Who cares if its for a title or not?

These guys (Manny, Cotto, Mosely, Oscar, Floyd, Marquez etc) have all conquered multiple weight classes and won mulitple world titles.

They are the elite fighters of our age and now the ultimate challenge for them is to fight each other, not for more 'belts'

These fights between p4p stars who have won world titles across divisions are BIGGER than the weight class they take place in and the belts they fight for.

It's not about world titles to these guys now, its about fighting the very best.

It's the HIGHEST GOAL of boxing. The weight classes and belts (appalling as they are) exist to provide us with a framework in which to find the best fighters but once they are p4p greats they transcend that.

The fights most fans want to see, the fights the fighters themselves want are the fights against other p4p champions.

As they all don't weigh the same one fighter fighting in another fighters weight class disadvantages himself and as we no longer care in these instances about weight classes or belts (the fight is bigger than this now) they compromise and meet in the middle.

It's totally fair, it's totally acceptable.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Because besides Pacman fans no one likes Pacman. And the reason is their fans.

Of course this also applies to other fighter's fan base too. But that's the reason, a lot of people hate Pacman because of his fans so it's not okay for him to fight at a catchweight but other guys have.

You guys can blame yourself for it. Although a lot of boxing fans don't like Hatton and Khan also. Another uninformed fanbase.

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Well i like and respect Manny Pacquiao, even though im a fan of JMM. I still admire the amount of balls Manny Pacquiao is showing taking all these fights, and i love his exciting style.

I can't really understand how anyone couldn't like Manny Pacquiao, obviously alot of his fans are going to go. Over the top because they haven't really got alot of sporting greats at the moment.

And thats no disrespect to the Filipino people, by the way and im no expert on your country. So if im wrong please tell me but thats what i think anyway.

So i now i've just learnt to excuse some of his fans, and just enjoy what a great fighter we have at the moment. I mean the amount of titles he's won at all those weightclasses is incredible.

You may not see a fighter like this for years or maybe even decades to come, so enjoy it while your in this era. And don't be silly enough to let the fans spoil your enjoyment for a fighter.

---

The Manny Pacquiaos aren't really that rare in my opinion. We tend to have a few in every decade of the sport. Roy Jones started his career at 154 and then went on to win every title in his division including one of the alphabet HW titles. Oscar won titles starting at 130 all the way to 160. Floyd won titles at 130 all the way to 154. Duran won titles as a LW all the way to middleweight.

Pacman has a good career, but nothing unique.

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How many former Flyweight world champions, have gone on to compete at Welterweight ? i would say that is pretty rare because i can't think of a single boxer that has done that, that is incredible and im just glad im in this era to appreciate it.

I don't remember Pac or Roach calling out anyone after the Hatton. I think it's the other way around. These bigger guys are whoring out for Pac and would fight Pac at catchweight because of the money.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by ICB

Well i like and respect Manny Pacquiao, even though im a fan of JMM. I still admire the amount of balls Manny Pacquiao is showing taking all these fights, and i love his exciting style.

I can't really understand how anyone couldn't like Manny Pacquiao, obviously alot of his fans are going to go. Over the top because they haven't really got alot of sporting greats at the moment.

And thats no disrespect to the Filipino people, by the way and im no expert on your country. So if im wrong please tell me but thats what i think anyway.

So i now i've just learnt to excuse some of his fans, and just enjoy what a great fighter we have at the moment. I mean the amount of titles he's won at all those weightclasses is incredible.

You may not see a fighter like this for years or maybe even decades to come, so enjoy it while your in this era. And don't be silly enough to let the fans spoil your enjoyment for a fighter.

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The Manny Pacquiaos aren't really that rare in my opinion. We tend to have a few in every decade of the sport. Roy Jones started his career at 154 and then went on to win every title in his division including one of the alphabet HW titles. Oscar won titles starting at 130 all the way to 160. Floyd won titles at 130 all the way to 154. Duran won titles as a LW all the way to middleweight.

Pacman has a good career, but nothing unique.

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How many former Flyweight world champions, have gone on to compete at Welterweight ? i would say that is pretty rare because i can't think of a single boxer that has done that, that is incredible and im just glad im in this era to appreciate it.

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Ice when Bilbo is back next week I promise as his mum to make sure he reps you for that good little post.

NO little fighter has done anything like Manny has done.

It makes me laugh that some will probably say in all seriousness that Ricardo Lopez is a better all time great than Manny with his domination of the world's smallest weight class and then moving up a single divison to win a belt at junior flyweight.

Manny has also started at 107 lbs and went on to win world titles at flyweight, bantamweight, S featherweight, Lightweight, junior welter and even ko'd a legend at welterweight but his career is 'good but not unique' :rolleyes:

Even the great Roy Jones didn't when he moved up to heavy picked the worst paper belt holder and outpointed him, Manny went up the same number of weight classes, fought against the Ring Champ and sparked him in two rounds. :cool:

He's pretty special.

No

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by ICB

Well i like and respect Manny Pacquiao, even though im a fan of JMM. I still admire the amount of balls Manny Pacquiao is showing taking all these fights, and i love his exciting style.

I can't really understand how anyone couldn't like Manny Pacquiao, obviously alot of his fans are going to go. Over the top because they haven't really got alot of sporting greats at the moment.

And thats no disrespect to the Filipino people, by the way and im no expert on your country. So if im wrong please tell me but thats what i think anyway.

So i now i've just learnt to excuse some of his fans, and just enjoy what a great fighter we have at the moment. I mean the amount of titles he's won at all those weightclasses is incredible.

You may not see a fighter like this for years or maybe even decades to come, so enjoy it while your in this era. And don't be silly enough to let the fans spoil your enjoyment for a fighter.

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The Manny Pacquiaos aren't really that rare in my opinion. We tend to have a few in every decade of the sport. Roy Jones started his career at 154 and then went on to win every title in his division including one of the alphabet HW titles. Oscar won titles starting at 130 all the way to 160. Floyd won titles at 130 all the way to 154. Duran won titles as a LW all the way to middleweight.

Pacman has a good career, but nothing unique.

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How many former Flyweight world champions, have gone on to compete at Welterweight ? i would say that is pretty rare because i can't think of a single boxer that has done that, that is incredible and im just glad im in this era to appreciate it.

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Didnt SRR start at Welter and below and was competing at 175? doing quite well until he wilted in the heat

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Originally Posted by Bilbo's Mom

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

The Manny Pacquiaos aren't really that rare in my opinion. We tend to have a few in every decade of the sport. Roy Jones started his career at 154 and then went on to win every title in his division including one of the alphabet HW titles. Oscar won titles starting at 130 all the way to 160. Floyd won titles at 130 all the way to 154. Duran won titles as a LW all the way to middleweight.

Pacman has a good career, but nothing unique.

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How many former Flyweight world champions, have gone on to compete at Welterweight ? i would say that is pretty rare because i can't think of a single boxer that has done that, that is incredible and im just glad im in this era to appreciate it.

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Ice when Bilbo is back next week I promise as his mum to make sure he reps you for that good little post.

NO little fighter has done anything like Manny has done.

It makes me laugh that some will probably say in all seriousness that Ricardo Lopez is a better all time great than Manny with his domination of the world's smallest weight class and then moving up a single divison to win a belt at junior flyweight.

Manny has also started at 107 lbs and went on to win world titles at flyweight, bantamweight, S featherweight, Lightweight, junior welter and even ko'd a legend at welterweight but his career is 'good but not unique' :rolleyes:

Even the great Roy Jones didn't when he moved up to heavy picked the worst paper belt holder and outpointed him, Manny went up the same number of weight classes, fought against the Ring Champ and sparked him in two rounds. :cool:

He's pretty special.

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I totally agree as i said im not really a Manny Pacquiao fan, im a Juan Manuel Marquez fan. But you can't help just appreciate Manny Pacquiao, not only has he won all those titles at all those weightclasses.

Which is amazing in it self, he has also improved so much as a boxer. Which to me is one of the most impressive things about Manny Pacquiao. Its so hard to turn into a boxer, when most of your career your instinct as a fighter is of course to fight.

But now he has that under control, and he fights with controlled aggression. And he really is great to watch as boxer more so than he's old aggressive style IMO.

I don't really care what weightclass he is fighting Shane Mosley, Miguel Cotto, Floyd Mayweather Jr, at. Just managing to fight them is a feat in itself.

When me and many other members, thought it was ridiculous to even suggest that a fight could happen between any of those fighters. Now people are actually having a go at Manny Pacquiao, for not fighting them at there exact weight ?

When he is the smaller man ? i just find that laughable to be honest. As you said in another thread if they don't want to fight Manny Pacquiao, at 143 or whatever they don't have to take the fight do they ?

Its not like Manny Pacquiao is putting a gun to there head forcing them to do it, just like it wasn't Manny Pacquiao's fault ODLH drained himself. He still won the fight which many people thought he was out his depth, so what really else can he do ?

I don't think people are being realistic here, and i think Manny Pacquiao fighting any of those fighters is a feat in itself. People are too hard on Manny Pacquiao, i think he's done excellent to achieve what he has achieved. Truly a great a boxer and as i said im just glad to be a part of it. And by the way i'll send some rep your way on your Bilbo name.

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

The Manny Pacquiaos aren't really that rare in my opinion. We tend to have a few in every decade of the sport. Roy Jones started his career at 154 and then went on to win every title in his division including one of the alphabet HW titles. Oscar won titles starting at 130 all the way to 160. Floyd won titles at 130 all the way to 154. Duran won titles as a LW all the way to middleweight.

Pacman has a good career, but nothing unique.

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How many former Flyweight world champions, have gone on to compete at Welterweight ? i would say that is pretty rare because i can't think of a single boxer that has done that, that is incredible and im just glad im in this era to appreciate it.

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Didnt SRR start at Welter and below and was competing at 175? doing quite well until he wilted in the heat

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Yes but SRR was 157 which is impressive because he was still competing, as the much smaller man but still technically he was still a Middleweight. But you've just proved my point bro how long ago was that ? that basically proves me point, that there isn't many boxers that come around to often like Manny Pacquiao.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo's Mom

Manny has also started at 107 lbs and went on to win world titles at flyweight, bantamweight, S featherweight, Lightweight, junior welter and even ko'd a legend at welterweight but his career is 'good but not unique' :rolleyes:

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Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

The Manny Pacquiaos aren't really that rare in my opinion. We tend to have a few in every decade of the sport. Roy Jones started his career at 154 and then went on to win every title in his division including one of the alphabet HW titles. Oscar won titles starting at 130 all the way to 160. Floyd won titles at 130 all the way to 154. Duran won titles as a LW all the way to middleweight.

Pacman has a good career, but nothing unique.

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How many former Flyweight world champions, have gone on to compete at Welterweight ? i would say that is pretty rare because i can't think of a single boxer that has done that, that is incredible and im just glad im in this era to appreciate it.

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Didnt SRR start at Welter and below and was competing at 175? doing quite well until he wilted in the heat

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No. He was a briliant superb welterweight, a very good middleweight, although he lost his belt 4 times so hardly unbeatable and was 0-1 as light heavyweight suffering a TKO, why is irelevent, he still quit on his stool and lost by knockout.

And Sugar Ray is considered the best of all times, a pretty significant person to compare Pac too, he mixes in high company according to you to that's nice to see ;)

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Bilbo's Mom

Manny has also started at 107 lbs and went on to win world titles at flyweight, bantamweight, S featherweight, Lightweight, junior welter and even ko'd a legend at welterweight but his career is 'good but not unique' :rolleyes:

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Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

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There's a big difference in being able to put on 35lbs and through weight training and slowing metabolism and then being able to compete and dominate against guys who are naturally that size, surely you know that as well as me.

I'm a big fan of Floyd JT you know but he's right to get accused of cherry picking to an extent because of several reasons.

Firstly he's arguably the most arrogant man on the planet, the self proclaimed greatest of all time. When you hold your self in such high regard you raise the bar regarding how people will judge your claims. Manny on the other hand is incredibly humble.

Secondly Pacquiao has sought to fight the very best in each weight class and has destroyed prime p4p fighters, and he's for the most part done it in their own weight classes.

He boasts two wins over Barrera, two KO wins over Morales, a win over Marquez, a destruction of Ricky Hatton and a destruction of Oscar in which few felt he would win beforehand but now give him no credit at all. And he still wants to fight the best, Mosely, Cotto, Mayweather, all guys yet again bigger than himself.

Floyd meanwhile has carefully avoided the most significant challenges in most weight divisions or when he has fought them it has been on his terms.

Diego Coralles he forced to fight at superfeatherweight after Diego had moved up, so you could argue as weight drained as Oscar.

Castillo was a legit opponent although most think he lost the first time round.

Then he avoided all the best fighters in the other weight classe. He never went near Kosta Tyzsu, he didn't want anything to do with Shane Mosely, Paul Williams, Antonio Margarito and Miguel Cotto.

He forced Hatton up to him to fight at 147.

He DID beat Oscar at 154, Oscars weight class and that imo is Floyd's best win, a great achievement to go up so much above his natural weight and defeat a legend. But he was willing to meet Oscar's demands for the millions and millions he made from the fight. Every other opponent must face Floyd on HIS terms.

Please note I don't criticise for Floyd for this, it's smart.

I'm just saying that ask practically any unbiased fan who has the bigger balls between Manny Pacquaio and Floyd Mayweather and not many are saying Mayweather ;)

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Originally Posted by paddy448

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Originally Posted by ASIAN SENSATION

I voted YES. But it should be a non-title.

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i agree

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Yeah if a champion has to come several pounds under his maximum allowed weight just to get a fight with someone like Pac, it should be a non title fight unless the champ agrees to it.Before the advent of all these weight classes, it wasn't unusual for someone like Henry Armstrong to weigh 142 for a welterweigh title fight. He was a natural 140 pounder but they didn't have that class then.

There should be no catchweights anymore, there are 17 divisions now, if you can't fight within the limit of one of these 17 then you shouldn't fight at all. I don't want to see Darchinyan and Klitschko fight at a "catchweight."

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Originally Posted by "The L.A. Earthquake"

There should be no catchweights anymore, there are 17 divisions now, if you can't fight within the limit of one of these 17 then you shouldn't fight at all. I don't want to see Darchinyan and Klitschko fight at a "catchweight."

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Klit in 12;D:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo's Mom

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Bilbo's Mom

Manny has also started at 107 lbs and went on to win world titles at flyweight, bantamweight, S featherweight, Lightweight, junior welter and even ko'd a legend at welterweight but his career is 'good but not unique' :rolleyes:

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Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

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There's a big difference in being able to put on 35lbs and through weight training and slowing metabolism and then being able to compete and dominate against guys who are naturally that size, surely you know that as well as me.

I'm a big fan of Floyd JT you know but he's right to get accused of cherry picking to an extent because of several reasons.

Firstly he's arguably the most arrogant man on the planet, the self proclaimed greatest of all time. When you hold your self in such high regard you raise the bar regarding how people will judge your claims. Manny on the other hand is incredibly humble.

Secondly Pacquiao has sought to fight the very best in each weight class and has destroyed prime p4p fighters, and he's for the most part done it in their own weight classes.

He boasts two wins over Barrera, two KO wins over Morales, a win over Marquez, a destruction of Ricky Hatton and a destruction of Oscar in which few felt he would win beforehand but now give him no credit at all. And he still wants to fight the best, Mosely, Cotto, Mayweather, all guys yet again bigger than himself.

Floyd meanwhile has carefully avoided the most significant challenges in most weight divisions or when he has fought them it has been on his terms.

Diego Coralles he forced to fight at superfeatherweight after Diego had moved up, so you could argue as weight drained as Oscar.

Castillo was a legit opponent although most think he lost the first time round.

Then he avoided all the best fighters in the other weight classe. He never went near Kosta Tyzsu, he didn't want anything to do with Shane Mosely, Paul Williams, Antonio Margarito and Miguel Cotto.

He forced Hatton up to him to fight at 147.

He DID beat Oscar at 154, Oscars weight class and that imo is Floyd's best win, a great achievement to go up so much above his natural weight and defeat a legend. But he was willing to meet Oscar's demands for the millions and millions he made from the fight. Every other opponent must face Floyd on HIS terms.

Please note I don't criticise for Floyd for this, it's smart.

I'm just saying that ask practically any unbiased fan who has the bigger balls between Manny Pacquaio and Floyd Mayweather and not many are saying Mayweather ;)

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Thats my point Manny size is his size the fact that he turned pro 3-4 years earlier than most before complete physical maturity shows what really, dont you think a good percentage of guys currently at 140 gained 34lbs in 16 years?
The above bolded comment carries no relevance what so ever.

I'll gladly give reverence to the Floyd ducking argument if you could do me a favor and provide a timeline, complete with schedules and line up were those fights could have been made taking into consideration Mosely, Cotto, Margarito and Williams previous engagements

To my knowledge Floyd made 2 challenges to Mosely in the past and he declined

Floyd declined Margarito(Who nobody knew at the time and was as marketable as the flu) in lieu of fighting the Ring recognized Welterweight champ.

Cotto was fighting Judah while Mayweather was fighting Delahoya.. Gee thats a no brainer finance wise.. I dare someone to argue that

Cotto was fighting Mosely, while Floyd was fighting Ricky Hatton in a fight that was one of the most talked about for 3 years on this forum and everyone wanted to see and speculated about. The fact that Floyd made another blockbuster payday.

Williams just started to catch steam 1-2 years ago and was still considered an untested prospect who was scheduled to fight Margarito 2 months after Floyd beat Oscar.

Then he retired after waging to huge blockbuster fights and promotions with gruling travel. Not to mention achieving cross over appeal. He rested and now he is back

Where is the duck?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo's Mom

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I'm just saying that ask practically any unbiased fan who has the bigger balls between Manny Pacquaio and Floyd Mayweather and not many are saying Mayweather ;)

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haha perhaps this should be moved to the Manny Pacquaio forum now.