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Roy Jones Jr
Joe Calzaghe
B-Hop ?
Prime RJJ beat Prime Hopkins
Calzaghe beat an old Jones easy
Calzaghe beat an old Hopkins in a close fight
Tough call cause RJJ was better at his prime than both but Calzaaghe is undefeated and B-HOp is still one of the best at 43 while Jones is not nearly as good
For me its 1) RJJ 2) Hopkins 3) JOE C
Opinions...
Yes agreed only because Joe wasted his peak from Eubanks to Lacy.
Yeah Jones, Hopkins, Calzaghe is the way Id see it.
I would'nt say Jones beat a prime Hopkins really.Jones was far ahead in Pedigree,amatuer and network exposure and Hopkins was still in his early seek and destroy mindset.But he beat him none the less.
Depends again on that always blurry definition of p4p.On pure boxing skillset,I give it to Hopkins.On speed,reflex and instinct...Jones by far.On 'names' minus the *'s about being shot,past prime...Its Joe.I need aspirin now.
I agree with gest1264,it could of been different if Joe had got some more big fights in his career.
I see it Hopkins just ahead of Jones, & then a larger gap to Calzaghe. All are Top 75 ATGs for me though
I go with
Hopkins- he has had such longevity..he made himself a legend with almost no amateur experience...at 45 he is still going strong....he has really only been soundly defeated once and thawas a pretty raw Hopkins versus a prime Jones who had tons of amateur experience
Jones- lived up to his amateur expectences...Was a phenom at smw...went from MW to HW winning championships.....What detrtacts is Jones spent a lot of time fighting second tier challengers and turned down his toughest challenges during his prime years
Calzaghe- Joe has all the goods for sure and in the last years of his career he turned me into a big fan but he allowed Warren to manage him too long and linger with second tier opp....
Though there is no question on the place all 3 belong....3 of the top P4P of all time
Hopkins claims to have won junior titles from the age of nine and had around 100 amateur fights before going into prison.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I got itQuote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
1, R. Jones
2, B. Hopkins
3, S. Ottke
4, J. Calzaghe
RJJ never beat a prime Bernard Hopkins, Bernard Hopkins was still green remember he had no Amateur bouts. To my knowledge only prison boxing but whatever who cares. The fact is he was still learning his craft when he fought RJJ, he peaked in 1997 when he beat Glen Johnson.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
As for the thread itself.
1 RJJ
2 Bernard Hopkins
3 Joe Calzaghe
ha ha u been on the crack pipe again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI got itQuote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
1, R. Jones
2, B. Hopkins
3, S. Ottke
4, J. Calzaghe
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHopkins claims to have won junior titles from the age of nine and had around 100 amateur fights before going into prison.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Hate to cause static mate but I would need to see where that happened because that is the first I ever heard of that
I thought it was common knowledge that Hopkins claimed a 95-4 amatuer record?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterHopkins claims to have won junior titles from the age of nine and had around 100 amateur fights before going into prison.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Hate to cause static mate but I would need to see where that happened because that is the first I ever heard of that
Wasn't it reported that Jones failed drugs tests a few years back but it was kind of brushed under the carpet a bit.
I dunno if it was true, but if so, it tarnishes his achievements a bit for me.
I agree with the OP except RJJ didn't beat prime B-hop. I believe he still would have though not as easily.
If he did it was news to me because I see zero proof of him ever having an amateur record...or at least one to brag about like that one...Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI thought it was common knowledge that Hopkins claimed a 95-4 amatuer record?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Hate to cause static mate but I would need to see where that happened because that is the first I ever heard of that
Unless it nis fact I pay little attention to things like amateur claims....Unless a fighter goes national champ or in Olympics it is hard to know what they actually did or did not achieve
Ditto.Must have missed that.I dont recall it,dont strike me as the sort to harking back to his Ama days in the ring??? Running through early interviews and have zilchQuote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnIf he did it was news to me because I see zero proof of him ever having an amateur record...or at least one to brag about like that one...Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI thought it was common knowledge that Hopkins claimed a 95-4 amatuer record?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Unless it nis fact I pay little attention to things like amateur claims....Unless a fighter goes national champ or in Olympics it is hard to know what they actually did or did not achieve
Jeezuss,You want pause?Compare two pics of early Hopkins and todays and that grill of his.Wooooow;DMade some dentist very wealthy.
I'm going with:
1) B-hop
2) RJJ
3) Calzaghe
Hopkins has the bigger names and the better career than the other two and it's still not over. RJJ lacks the names Hopkins has but not the skill. Calzaghe also lacks the names, and his win over Hopkins is disputed while Jones was really nowhere near prime form. All are great fighters but I'm just trying to show why I'm placing them where I did.
Hopkins
Roy
Calzaghe
I'd probably put Bernard top 30 all time, somewhere around that. Not sure where I'd put Roy or Calzaghe, they're definitely on the list somewhere obviously.
1. RJJ
2. Joe
3. BHop
This is harder than I thought it would be. RJ had a win over Hop early, and Joe had one late. The problem is that its hard to define Hopkins' "Prime." He has fought and won at a high level since his loss to JC. I think RJ is a little easier to graph, as far as when he declined significantly. You just can't discount that JC win over Hopkins either. I don't know, I'm not at all a fan of JC, but I could make an argument to put him at 1.
Jones wasn't prime when he beat hopkins..they were both green..and neither had really discovered who they were as professionals.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
Bigger names in terms of money? Then its just oscar..but BHOP's opponents aren't near jones...Hop has victories over two potential HOF's Jones has six. No one on Hop's record is anywhere near Toney. And since people like to tarnish both jones wins over Toney and Hopkins himself...then hopkins beat two blown up WW's at MW, a weight drained Tarver, and a one dimensional Pavlik..
Jones wasn't prime when he beat hopkins..they were both green..and neither had really discovered who they were as professionals.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
Bigger names in terms of money? Then its just oscar..but BHOP's opponents aren't near jones...Hop has victories over two potential HOF's Jones has six. No one on Hop's record is anywhere near Toney. And since people like to tarnish both jones wins over Toney and Hopkins himself...then hopkins beat two blown up WW's at MW, a weight drained Tarver, and a one dimensional Pavlik..
RJJ
Nard
JC
....But Calzaghe deserves more credit for the win over Hopkins. I don't care if B-Hop was 50 when that fight took place he was still (and is still) an awesome fighter, as he showed against Pavlik, which was directly after the JC fight and against Wright and Tarver whicher were directlly before JC. The Tarver, Wright and Pavlick wins are the best of his career imo.
In this interview he says he started boxing at seven and won his first title at nine.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnIf he did it was news to me because I see zero proof of him ever having an amateur record...or at least one to brag about like that one...Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI thought it was common knowledge that Hopkins claimed a 95-4 amatuer record?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Unless it nis fact I pay little attention to things like amateur claims....Unless a fighter goes national champ or in Olympics it is hard to know what they actually did or did not achieve
Age started boxing: I started at seven as a youth. Then I went to Graterford (prison) for five years and I picked it back up in there. But (I started) as a pro in ‘88. So I started at seven.
Early Boxing Memory: Winning Pennsylvania Junior Olympics when I was nine. Won a trophy which had to be two-feet tall! When I won that I was the baby in the gym. We had guys like Robert Hines. I got my butt kicked 95% of the time in the gym by guys who were bigger and older than me. But I was too advanced for my level. I beat a guy named ‘Bunchie’ Williams, a good, good amateur who went 12-1 as a pro but then I think drugs got him.
Bernard Hopkins | BoxingInsider.com
In prison he won the national penitentiary middleweight championship three times.
I'm not sure about his exact amateur record. Ive seen it reported at 95-4 too, but whatever it was Hopkins was clearly well versed in boxing before turning pro. ;)
i gotta agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI got itQuote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
1, R. Jones
2, B. Hopkins
39, S. Ottke
40, J. Calzaghe
1. Roy
2. Calzaghe
3. Hopkins
I don't think Hopkins beat anyone that Calzaghe and Jones (I don't think Roy would have lost to Tarver or Johnson had he not jumped up to heavyweight). would have been troubled by.
Hopkins lost twice to Taylor. I could never see a weak finisher like Taylor going 24 rounds with either Calzaghe or Roy. They would not need to be "prime" to KO him.
Finally, both Roy and Calzaghe beat Hopkins on the back of him showing top winning form before and after, so no real excuses. Hopkins ranks third of the three.
I don't think B-Hop's opposition at Middleweight was any better than Calzaghe's at SMW, but I do think (and it's subjective) that B-Hop is/was a better fighter than JC
The big blip on Hopkins career for mwe is the 2 losses to JT. Those fights were there to be won, but only fought for the last 4 rounds in each fight.
1. Hopkins
2. Jones
3. Calzaghe
Jones
Hopkins
JC
I think Bernard was better boxer than Roy and that has lead to a longer career at the top but Roy's tremendous athletic abilities are hard to find an equal to anywhere in boxing.
That's a sound logic so I would have it the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
You'd be right then. Fact. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by milesThat's a sound logic so I would have it the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I don't see Hopkins no way near as talented as either of them. What he lacked in talent though he made up for in guile.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
He's the Peter Ebdon of boxing. ;D
Fixed it for you ;D;DQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterI don't see Hopkins no way near as talented as either of them. What he lacked in talent though he made up for in guile,smooth counter punching,defense of the Matrix,the right hand of Bruce Lee ( the good one),the ring generalship of Patton and the non smacking frantic fits of a epileptic adolescentQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
He's the Peter Ebdon of boxing. ;D
Ah right.. I guess for me it must be a case of - when you think your girlfriend is beautiful but everyone else thinks she's ugly. Just the reverse. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliFixed it for you ;D;DQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterI don't see Hopkins no way near as talented as either of them. What he lacked in talent though he made up for in guile,smooth counter punching,defense of the Matrix,the right hand of Bruce Lee ( the good one),the ring generalship of Patton and the non smacking frantic fits of a epileptic adolescentQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
He's the Peter Ebdon of boxing. ;D
Ha.Ol' Hopkins can definitly be a brown bagger :bag:.I wish all of the women in my life could be as jaw dropping and as firery as they were in back in college;DQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterAh right.. I guess for me it must be a case of - when you think your girlfriend is beautiful but everyone else thinks she's ugly. Just the reverse. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliFixed it for you ;D;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
And you're a fan that hasn't had to watch his fights at 4am. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliHa.Ol' Hopkins can definitly be a brown bagger :bag:.I wish all of the women in my life could be as jaw dropping and as firery as they were in back in college;DQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterAh right.. I guess for me it must be a case of - when you think your girlfriend is beautiful but everyone else thinks she's ugly. Just the reverse. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
(stop rolling the eyes, Ouma)
Jones did Roids so that takies him out of the running for me
Hopkins > Calzaghe
So when was he suspended for steroid use?Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth
Richard Hall (Nevada states head of doping) stated during interview that Jones had tested positive for anabolic steroids use when the two met back in May of 2000.
Hall stated "I now tender my resignation he (Mr Jones) has now failed four doping test (97,98,00 x2) they have also lost seven of Mr Roy Jones samples. I have written to both the NewYork and Nevada state athletic commisions stating that he (Jones) has tested positive for Testosterone Enanthate at least four times, his serum levels were 100x that of normal levels."
when pressed into the effect that would have on his performances he added: "Its like he is taking a machine gun into a knife fight his strentgh and speed would be too much for two men to overcome".
ROY JONES JR. IS IN DENIAL
By Elisa Harrison
Posted: Wednesday, June 09, 2004
MIAMI, FLA.
When questioned about his lack luster form in training Roy Jones seemed lost for words and so he should. This is his first bout since the new approved commissioned human growth hormone test is being used. Anthony Hall the former head of doping was newly re-appointed after being proven right in the James Toney case (See appendix 43) has demanded weekly tests for Testosterone and groth hormone for Roy Jones Jr.
Mr Hall has claimed and shown undeniable evidence of irregular testosterone levels in mr Roy Jones, who has claimed that it was suppliments that caused the ****e in his serum levels. Those claim have been squashed by male hormone experts who called them farsicle.
I caught up with Mr Hall during my stay in Las Vegas last week and he stated: "This is the first fight that we are able to put together a testing regime foolproof to any comebacks. Its the same regime mr Jones took part in back in 97 but this time it has a government seal on it, his lawyers or anybodies lawyers for that matter can contest." When pushed by his distain for Jones he added: " I and the rest of the Nevada and New York state know that he (Roy Jones) was using illegal means going into all of his fight from 1996 FACT." a loophole and good lawyers got him off." When i pushed Hall about the statements hes made he said: "Look its in black and white every fight since 1996 we tested his serum testosterone levels they were through the roof. Now those tests which are 99.9% accurate were called wrong i will be intrested to see how he performes in his next bout if his performance levels stay the same then i say hes still a cheat, but i have a feeling he (Roy Jones) will not be able to sustain the level of performance without using these hormones"
"Lets see how he does in the Tarver bout"
...... Not To Mention its common knowledge that ROy did HGH to get big enough to fight Ruiz
Thats pretty damn interesting and if it is true then most of his career is tarnished.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth