Ted Kennedy was a bastard and now he's dead!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcYsO890YJY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsaTElBljOE

The Kennedy's are no different than any Mafia family. Joe Kennedy made his family's wealth the same way Al Capone made his money BOOTLEGGING LIQUOR. Joe's family lived lives of excess and they were able to ride their fame through some very stormy waters. The Chappaquiddick incident aside, Ted Kennedy had more than his fair share of shady situations whether it's getting his drug addict son out of trouble and allowing him to keep his seat in Congress or whether it's allowing his nephew to get away with rape, Teddy had his fair share of controversies.

On the political side, Ted Kennedy came up with the idea for HMO's (something he later changed his mind on), he got No Child Left Behind enacted, the immigration acts he passed weren't great for America...they did get results for the Democrats but not for America.

Sure Ted had his good side, he did a lot for civil rights, but the bad/questionable stuff he did shouldn't be left off the table...I'm only hoping his Nationalized Healthcare doesn't come into effect on account of his death.

So, you're not a fan?;D

Admire you for having an honest opinion and not glossing over his past. Also like that you accept he had some good points.

It does seem from some new coverage that he could do no wrong, despite what wrongs he did do.

From the books i have read old man Kennedy bought his way into the Whitehouse and was a bit of a nasty fuck.

Reps to you for starting a new thread and allowing supporters to continue on the other thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

So, you're not a fan?;D

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you got that right.

It's kinda funny. As bad as adversarial partisan politics can get, at least real politicians don't stand up and cheer when a member of the opposition kicks off.

They say these famous people always die in sets of three.....well just so you know I've got my fingers crossed for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton....but just in case they don't pass the following will be acceptable: Henry Waxman, Diane Fienstein, Bono, Louis Farrakahn, Rev. Wright, Father Flager, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Ashton Kutcher, Dane Cook, Bill Maher, the entire band Green Day, Chris Matthews, and of course last but not least Al Gore.


So don't be surprised or offended(....hell be offended see if I care), if I cheer when any of those guys kick the bucket either

The best news is that for Halloween now I can be the Zombie Kennedy "eerrrr, uh, I have come baaaaack from the dead foah(for) moi (my) scawtch (scotch)"

GOD BLESS AMERICA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZcQvkCNcE0

Read this old thread and everyone will see that Lyle is FAIR AND BALANCED....
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...-has-died.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcYsO890YJY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsaTElBljOE

The Kennedy's are no different than any Mafia family. Joe Kennedy made his family's wealth the same way Al Capone made his money BOOTLEGGING LIQUOR. Joe's family lived lives of excess and they were able to ride their fame through some very stormy waters. The Chappaquiddick incident aside, Ted Kennedy had more than his fair share of shady situations whether it's getting his drug addict son out of trouble and allowing him to keep his seat in Congress or whether it's allowing his nephew to get away with rape, Teddy had his fair share of controversies.

On the political side, Ted Kennedy came up with the idea for HMO's (something he later changed his mind on), he got No Child Left Behind enacted, the immigration acts he passed weren't great for America...they did get results for the Democrats but not for America.

Sure Ted had his good side, he did a lot for civil rights, but the bad/questionable stuff he did shouldn't be left off the table...I'm only hoping his Nationalized Healthcare doesn't come into effect on account of his death.

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Teddy was a bastard and he was also a saint. Nothing is black and white in this world. I live in Massachusetts, and I'm not a Kennedy groupie like some many people hear. IMHO, JFK is one of the most overrated presidents ever. He couldn't get crap passed in the legislature and he almost got us into a nuclear war. He escalated Vietnam. He fucked everything with a skirt. Then he died, and LBJ used the combination if his influence in congress and JFK's death to get his agenda passed, plus a few more good things. But LBJ and Nixon get blamed for Vietnam Jack Kennedy gets a free pass. Dems sure love the cult of personality.

Ted did a lot of bad things in his personal life, and he probably should have gone to jail for Mary Jo. Lord only knows how many DUIs he would have gotten if he weren't Teddy Kennedy. I can tell you stories about the antics he used to pull when he would go visit Chris Dodd. My family owned a restaurant/bar just down the road from Dodd's house. I know. It bugs me every time I'm near the Rose Kennedy Greenway that Teddy got to honor his mother with that when so many others from this Commonwealth deserve the recognition more than her.

In spite of all this, Teddy honestly thought he was doing the best he could do for this country. He worked his butt off, not just on big issues, but on local problems. He or his staff answered every letter they received and Teddy would take the time help individuals in this state, totally under the radar. For the last 15 or so years of his live, he cleaned his act up and did his best to make up for the sins of past. You might disagree with his politics, but the man devoted his life to helping others, and he treated people decently. I don't agree with a lot of thing he supported, but overall he did more good than harm.

As far as nationalized health care, government funded insurance for all is going to happen sooner or later. Maybe not now, but it's gonna happen. Hell, it's already happened because people without insure just use the ER as primary care. We have medicaid and medicare. Though some HMO's are great, I would take medicare over some of them anytime.

You can fight it, or you can try to look for ways to do it that won't destroy the things that are good about the current system. Agree with you in hoping bad healthcare reform doesn't get passed in his name, because we can do a heck of a lot better than this foolishness Obama has on the table.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

They say these famous people always die in sets of three.....well just so you know I've got my fingers crossed for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton....but just in case they don't pass the following will be acceptable: Henry Waxman, Diane Fienstein, Bono, Louis Farrakahn, Rev. Wright, Father Flager, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Ashton Kutcher, Dane Cook, Bill Maher, the entire band Green Day, Chris Matthews, and of course last but not least Al Gore.


So don't be surprised or offended(....hell be offended see if I care), if I cheer when any of those guys kick the bucket either

The best news is that for Halloween now I can be the Zombie Kennedy "eerrrr, uh, I have come baaaaack from the dead foah(for) moi (my) scawtch (scotch)"

GOD BLESS AMERICA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZcQvkCNcE0

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Lyle, be careful with that.;D

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Science ponders 'zombie attack'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgpa7...eature=related


:action: :sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep:: sheep::sheep::sheep:

Actually I just heard that some old lady is selling the grave plot on top of Marylin monroe and the bids are at 4 mill. You can in effect be buried face down on top of Marylin.

That what they should of done for Ted.

lol pretty funny to me anyway Lyle had to go back 2+ years to find a few lines he posted that somehow make his views fair and balanced.

:p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Read this old thread and everyone will see that Lyle is FAIR AND BALANCED....
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...-has-died.html

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So in one case you leave a throwaway comment, in this you post a short character assassination :cwm13:

Putting that aside, it's admirable that you went back years to prove that you're capable of classless insensitivity regardless of the deceased's political leanings :rolleyes:

Jaz, what am I to do when people say "Ted Kennedy was the lion of the Senate"...or "The Kennedy's are America's Royal Family"....I'm sorry I don't take kindly to such sycophantic exaggerations especially in the case of Ted Kennedy. Ted Kennedy served the US in the best way he knew how, but the only reason he was a "Senator for Life" was because he was a Kennedy and that reason may have also kept him (and his other infamous family members) out of prison.

My comment to make it know that I am fair and balanced did come 2 years ago but when was the last time someone like a Rev. Falwell passed away for me to comment on them? The only person I can think of that has "recently" passed that comes close to being a Republican version of Ted Kennedy is maybe MAYBE Jesse Helms, but then again #1 Jesse never killed anyone, #2 Jesse never got any relatives off of rape charges and #3 He never tried to undermine US national security by working with the Soviets

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Jaz, what am I to do when people say "Ted Kennedy was the lion of the Senate"...or "The Kennedy's are America's Royal Family"....I'm sorry I don't take kindly to such sycophantic exaggerations especially in the case of Ted Kennedy. Ted Kennedy served the US in the best way he knew how, but the only reason he was a "Senator for Life" was because he was a Kennedy and that reason may have also kept him (and his other infamous family members) out of prison.

My comment to make it know that I am fair and balanced did come 2 years ago but when was the last time someone like a Rev. Falwell passed away for me to comment on them? The only person I can think of that has "recently" passed that comes close to being a Republican version of Ted Kennedy is maybe MAYBE Jesse Helms, but then again #1 Jesse never killed anyone, #2 Jesse never got any relatives off of rape charges and #3 He never tried to undermine US national security by working with the Soviets

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I actually quite agree with you on this thread, Lyle. I don't buy into the whole Kennedy family nonsense at all. Ted Kennedy might have had his good points but he was a grossly flawed character, much like the rest of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miles

I actually quite agree with you on this thread, Lyle. I don't buy into the whole Kennedy family nonsense at all. Ted Kennedy might have had his good points but he was a grossly flawed character, much like the rest of them.

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I do appreciate the support I get in this thread when I get it, thank you miles.

As an American I can just tell you I always found it very disturbing that anyone would ever bestow the title "America's Royal Family" to any family....how do you think any of the Founding Fathers would treat that? I think fellow Bostonian and agitator of the British Samuel Adams would have a fucking fit over such a frivilous title being given to the Kennedy's and I am sure Sam Adams wouldn't have been alone in his dislike of that kind of bullshit media hype.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Jaz, what am I to do when people say "Ted Kennedy was the lion of the Senate"...or "The Kennedy's are America's Royal Family"....I'm sorry I don't take kindly to such sycophantic exaggerations especially in the case of Ted Kennedy. Ted Kennedy served the US in the best way he knew how, but the only reason he was a "Senator for Life" was because he was a Kennedy and that reason may have also kept him (and his other infamous family members) out of prison.

My comment to make it know that I am fair and balanced did come 2 years ago but when was the last time someone like a Rev. Falwell passed away for me to comment on them? The only person I can think of that has "recently" passed that comes close to being a Republican version of Ted Kennedy is maybe MAYBE Jesse Helms, but then again #1 Jesse never killed anyone, #2 Jesse never got any relatives off of rape charges and #3 He never tried to undermine US national security by working with the Soviets

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I actually completely agree with your assertions why Kennedy is overrated. Whilst I do admire Bobby Kennedy, I think JFK & Teddy were pretty corrupt & unfairly lionized, particularly over JFK's role in Vietnam. However, none of that justifies putting up a thread celebrating a man's death (we're not talking Hitler or a serial paedophile here). I've seen very little sycophantic exaggerations on here & even if people do stuff that pisses you off & angers you, try what I do 90% of the time, just let it go & move on. If I created a thread every time someone said something that I said was bullshit, I'd have about 3000 more posts ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miles

I actually quite agree with you on this thread, Lyle. I don't buy into the whole Kennedy family nonsense at all. Ted Kennedy might have had his good points but he was a grossly flawed character, much like the rest of them.

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I do appreciate the support I get in this thread when I get it, thank you miles.

As an American I can just tell you I always found it very disturbing that anyone would ever bestow the title "America's Royal Family" to any family....how do you think any of the Founding Fathers would treat that? I think fellow Bostonian and agitator of the British Samuel Adams would have a fucking fit over such a frivilous title being given to the Kennedy's and I am sure Sam Adams wouldn't have been alone in his dislike of that kind of bullshit media hype.

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That "Royal Family" stuff kills me. The whole idea of royalty goes against everything for which this country stands. Call "American's more influential/well recognized/something else family", but we have no royalty here and it's actually an insult to them to call them royalty. Sam, George, TJ and the rest would not be happy about this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Jaz, what am I to do when people say "Ted Kennedy was the lion of the Senate"...or "The Kennedy's are America's Royal Family"....I'm sorry I don't take kindly to such sycophantic exaggerations especially in the case of Ted Kennedy. Ted Kennedy served the US in the best way he knew how, but the only reason he was a "Senator for Life" was because he was a Kennedy and that reason may have also kept him (and his other infamous family members) out of prison.

My comment to make it know that I am fair and balanced did come 2 years ago but when was the last time someone like a Rev. Falwell passed away for me to comment on them? The only person I can think of that has "recently" passed that comes close to being a Republican version of Ted Kennedy is maybe MAYBE Jesse Helms, but then again #1 Jesse never killed anyone, #2 Jesse never got any relatives off of rape charges and #3 He never tried to undermine US national security by working with the Soviets

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I actually completely agree with your assertions why Kennedy is overrated. Whilst I do admire Bobby Kennedy, I think JFK & Teddy were pretty corrupt & unfairly lionized, particularly over JFK's role in Vietnam. However, none of that justifies putting up a thread celebrating a man's death (we're not talking Hitler or a serial paedophile here). I've seen very little sycophantic exaggerations on here & even if people do stuff that pisses you off & angers you, try what I do 90% of the time, just let it go & move on. If I created a thread every time someone said something that I said was bullshit, I'd have about 3000 more posts ;)

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I know there is the old expression 'dont speak ill of the dead' i think that means 'dont say behind someones back what you wouldnt say to their face'. But if it means ; for the protection of those closest with feelings towards the deceased, then I wonder what is the acceptable time span between their death and their truth is?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Jaz, what am I to do when people say "Ted Kennedy was the lion of the Senate"...or "The Kennedy's are America's Royal Family"....I'm sorry I don't take kindly to such sycophantic exaggerations especially in the case of Ted Kennedy. Ted Kennedy served the US in the best way he knew how, but the only reason he was a "Senator for Life" was because he was a Kennedy and that reason may have also kept him (and his other infamous family members) out of prison.

My comment to make it know that I am fair and balanced did come 2 years ago but when was the last time someone like a Rev. Falwell passed away for me to comment on them? The only person I can think of that has "recently" passed that comes close to being a Republican version of Ted Kennedy is maybe MAYBE Jesse Helms, but then again #1 Jesse never killed anyone, #2 Jesse never got any relatives off of rape charges and #3 He never tried to undermine US national security by working with the Soviets

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Huh?? You equate Kennedy with Falwell or Helms? I hardly think so. Take away their political leanings and thats no balancing act. Try to hold the right to the same standard you hold the left.

Oh, and Teddy got William off on rape? Willie was guilty And Ted got him off? do tell.

Andre, I have never thought any different of Teddy Kennedy, and death hasn't endowed him with any redeeming qualities so I have never put on like he will be missed which I think would be more dispicable.


CGM, OK let's take away the political leanings of Falwell and Jesse Helms...who killed somebody and then forgot to tell the cops until after the body was found? Falwell? Helms??? And if we bring Politics back into play, who endangered US national security just to get at his political rival?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Andre, I have never thought any different of Teddy Kennedy, and death hasn't endowed him with any redeeming qualities so I have never put on like he will be missed which I think would be more dispicable.


CGM, OK let's take away the political leanings of Falwell and Jesse Helms...who killed somebody and then forgot to tell the cops until after the body was found? Falwell? Helms??? And if we bring Politics back into play, who endangered US national security just to get at his political rival?

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I agree, in no way should you change your opinion on him. However, appearing to take pleasure in his death reflects very poorly on you Lyle

....well on the bright side, Ted Kennedy finally made me happy, does that count for something?

To tell you the truth, I dislike what Teddy stood for (politically and socially) and bar him killing Mary Jo and bar him getting his nephew off a rape charge...both of which were dispicable and reflect poorly on his moral fiber. I think he would have been ok to hang out with.

Teddy did some good, but I can't see celebrating the guy the way they did considering what he had done in his life.

As far as the celebration goes, it is over the top. Just more of the glorified famous person died massive media air time formula. Atleast it gave MJ a bit of a break.

I think it has more to do with the whole Kennedy lineage then just him personally.

Yes and that "Kennedy lineage" is exactly what I don't appreciate. The 24/7 news is idiotic, it's gotten to be like Entertainment instead of NEWS the line has blurred and there's no going back now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

....well on the bright side, Ted Kennedy finally made me happy, does that count for something?

To tell you the truth, I dislike what Teddy stood for (politically and socially) and bar him killing Mary Jo and bar him getting his nephew off a rape charge...both of which were dispicable and reflect poorly on his moral fiber. I think he would have been ok to hang out with.

Teddy did some good, but I can't see celebrating the guy the way they did considering what he had done in his life.

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Well, it's had fairly controlled exposure here, but I guess it might be a bit crazier over there. I got pretty pissed off with the hype when MJ died, so if it's like that I can understand venting, but whatever the situation, unless we're talking a genocidal maniac or some serial sex offender, I can't see celebrating a person's death, even in that situation I might not.

Personally, I just feel that is the sickest thing to do for yourself, if you have to celebrate another's demise. I don't think his failures should be glossed over & I'm guessing there are people doing that over there, in which case, I can understand even though it's still wrong. I felt similar when everyone was telling me Michael Jackson was some dynamic, heroic leader rather than a pop star with a penchant for 12 year old boys

Meh, I didn't even celebrate Reagan's death but to each his own I guess. I do believe you should say about dead people what you did when they were alive. Seriously though I doubt you care that much about Chappaquiddick really.

To me he was the greatest of the Kennedy brothers. Not a big fan of JFK or Bobby really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Meh, I didn't even celebrate Reagan's death but to each his own I guess. I do believe you should say about dead people what you did when they were alive. Seriously though I doubt you care that much about Chappaquiddick really.

To me he was the greatest of the Kennedy brothers. Not a big fan of JFK or Bobby really.

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I would literally dance on Reagan's grave if I got the chance.

Well, that's not true. But I have nothing good to say about him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CFH

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Meh, I didn't even celebrate Reagan's death but to each his own I guess. I do believe you should say about dead people what you did when they were alive. Seriously though I doubt you care that much about Chappaquiddick really.

To me he was the greatest of the Kennedy brothers. Not a big fan of JFK or Bobby really.

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I would literally dance on Reagan's grave if I got the chance.

Well, that's not true. But I have nothing good to say about him.

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That's just as bad as what Lyle said about Kennedy. He made some bad foreign policy decisions based on a faulted domino theory, but he was dead on right about ending the cold war by outspending the Soviets. He also restored confidence in ourselves and our nation for many Americans, and his economic policy in hindsight worked out well. He was a very good diplomat. In one of the great ironies of politics, the "conservative" Reagan used mass government spending in the defense industry to stimulate the economy. It was pure John Maynard Keynes. The idea was the when the economy rebounded, we could pay back the debt, and it happened exactly like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CFH

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Meh, I didn't even celebrate Reagan's death but to each his own I guess. I do believe you should say about dead people what you did when they were alive. Seriously though I doubt you care that much about Chappaquiddick really.

To me he was the greatest of the Kennedy brothers. Not a big fan of JFK or Bobby really.

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I would literally dance on Reagan's grave if I got the chance.

Well, that's not true. But I have nothing good to say about him.

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That's just as bad as what Lyle said about Kennedy. He made some bad foreign policy decisions based on a faulted domino theory, but he was dead on right about ending the cold war by outspending the Soviets. He also restored confidence in ourselves and our nation for many Americans, and his economic policy in hindsight worked out well. He was a very good diplomat. In one of the great ironies of politics, the "conservative" Reagan used mass government spending in the defense industry to stimulate the economy. It was pure John Maynard Keynes. The idea was the when the economy rebounded, we could pay back the debt, and it happened exactly like that.

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Of course it it. I'm just trying to piss off Lyle because he's being a hypocrite by starting this very "uncouth" thread, something he tried to have Kirkland banned for.

I make a point of staying away from political arguments/discussions on here these days because nothing good ever comes of them which is why I won't bother arguing with you about Reagan.

I like the international perspective when I talk politics here. I also feel the need to be reasonable voice between Lyle (who seems to be moving more and more to the right) and large contingency of people on the left and far left.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

I like the international perspective when I talk politics here. I also feel the need to be reasonable voice between Lyle (who seems to be moving more and more to the right) and large contingency of people on the left and far left.

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I used to enjoy discussing these types of things on here, but I've found that people (including myself) tend to get far too worked up over it. I do enjoy having these types of discussions with people in real life, so maybe it's just the medium that's the issue for me.

I do enjoy reading other peoples opinions though, even if they're directly opposed to my own. I find it gives me perspective and either strengthens my own views or forces my to justify them.

I usually don't get into this types of discussions here since I come here mainly for boxing talk. But Jazmerkin is right, it seems a little bit tasteless to revel in someone's death whether or not you agree with their political affiliations or not.

As someone pointed out, if Reagan had died this year and someone boastfully brag and cheer about it, it would still be considered extremely distasteful.

That's because Reagan was a decent guy

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Originally Posted by Lyle

That's because Reagan was a decent guy

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Well, sure, once you forget that his policies in Nicaragua and El Savador (and other Latin Countries) were responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths in support of corrupt fascist regimes. He probably could have saved us some trouble if he would have understood the big picture in Afghanistan.

Oh, and that whole Iran-Contra thing. I'm sure he knew nothing about that. It was all Ollie North.

As I recall, Reagan's deregulation has a little to do with the S and L debacle.

You can completely vilify in for this stuff. Or you can have some perspective.

Of course you'll have to have the last word. Teddy and Reagan were both great Americans. They had different visions and ideologies, but they both tried to do what was best for the country. At the end of the day, Reagan was responsible for the deaths of more innocent people than the Son of Sam, but that's part of being president sometimes. He thought he was doing right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andre

Actually I just heard that some old lady is selling the grave plot on top of Marylin monroe and the bids are at 4 mill. You can in effect be buried face down on top of Marylin.

That what they should of done for Ted.

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why not, everyone else had a go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

I usually don't get into this types of discussions here since I come here mainly for boxing talk. But Jazmerkin is right, it seems a little bit tasteless to revel in someone's death whether or not you agree with their political affiliations or not.

As someone pointed out, if Reagan had died this year and someone boastfully brag and cheer about it, it would still be considered extremely distasteful.

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Really? See the place go mental when Khan/Warren etc kick it.:cool:

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miles

I actually quite agree with you on this thread, Lyle. I don't buy into the whole Kennedy family nonsense at all. Ted Kennedy might have had his good points but he was a grossly flawed character, much like the rest of them.

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I do appreciate the support I get in this thread when I get it, thank you miles.

As an American I can just tell you I always found it very disturbing that anyone would ever bestow the title "America's Royal Family" to any family....how do you think any of the Founding Fathers would treat that? I think fellow Bostonian and agitator of the British Samuel Adams would have a fucking fit over such a frivilous title being given to the Kennedy's and I am sure Sam Adams wouldn't have been alone in his dislike of that kind of bullshit media hype.

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That "Royal Family" stuff kills me. The whole idea of royalty goes against everything for which this country stands. Call "American's more influential/well recognized/something else family", but we have no royalty here and it's actually an insult to them to call them royalty. Sam, George, TJ and the rest would not be happy about this.

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When did TJ Hooker get elected? I know it's a bit mental of you to let a really bad actor get the top job but Shatner did some good work before this?:o

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Meh, I didn't even celebrate Reagan's death but to each his own I guess. I do believe you should say about dead people what you did when they were alive. Seriously though I doubt you care that much about Chappaquiddick really.

To me he was the greatest of the Kennedy brothers. Not a big fan of JFK or Bobby really.

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You should see how we're preparing for when Thatcher finally goes back to hell.

Mark Thomas Info - Policy Update - Thatcher

http://www.markthomasinfo.com/zzz_im...dbacksmall.png

http://www.markthomasinfo.com/zzz_im...frontsmall.png

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

Well, sure, once you forget that his policies in Nicaragua and El Savador (and other Latin Countries) were responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths in support of corrupt fascist regimes. He probably could have saved us some trouble if he would have understood the big picture in Afghanistan.

Oh, and that whole Iran-Contra thing. I'm sure he knew nothing about that. It was all Ollie North.

As I recall, Reagan's deregulation has a little to do with the S and L debacle.

You can completely vilify in for this stuff. Or you can have some perspective.

Of course you'll have to have the last word. Teddy and Reagan were both great Americans. They had different visions and ideologies, but they both tried to do what was best for the country. At the end of the day, Reagan was responsible for the deaths of more innocent people than the Son of Sam, but that's part of being president sometimes. He thought he was doing right.

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....did Ronald Reagan personally kill anyone?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

....did Ronald Reagan personally kill anyone?

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did Hitler? or Charles Manson?