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A southpaw...
IMO are the ones who got the best chance.
Sergiy Dzinziruk or "Maravilla" Martinez.
Keep your eyes on Grzegorz Proksa kids got talent. I saw his debut fight on the undercard of JLC-Diaz fight then months later I saw from ringside his 2nd pro fight. He's moved along well thus far. Needs to work on a few things still but he's def. got talent. It's not like the LMW div. is deep right now...
I'd give Sergio Martinez a good shot at it. He's super accurate and has great foot movement.
yeah i was thinking sergio martinez as well. not keen on dzinziruk's chances though.
At LMW probably no one... at WW PBF and mosley...he might lose to pavilk at MW.
Thinking Sergio Martinez is shifty and capable enough,but might have to stand ground more than he likes.You can call me nutty but I think David Lopez coming down to 154 would have a decent shot.Both very smart boxers with good movement.
Id have to give Gavin Rees a good chance if he moved up to LMW. This guy is just phenomenal , he isn't a Warren media product like most of you think .
I think based on Williams' loss to Quintana, Sergio Martinez is very capable of beating PW.
Sergio Martinez v. Paul Williams would be a helluva fight but I doubt Pwill's handlers will let him fight Sergio. Too much risk and too little upside.
Dzinzurik is very capable and he had no qualms about coming to the states to fight Paul, but still I'd probably pick Pwill in that fight.
Mosley doesn't want anything to do with Pwill (as amazing as he looked against Margarito, don't forget how he fared against Forrest who had similar height and reach advantages that Pwill would have) and PBF isn't fighting anyone over 5'8.
At middlweight, Pavlik would give Pwill problems, but I'm not sure he has it in him to win. Would a win over Pwill be Pavlik's biggest win of his career?
BTW - Where is Sergio Martinez? Who is he fighting next? Has he been heard from since the draw with Cintron?
He was in talks to face Christophe Canclaux in France. Sergio was waiting to see what happened with the Pavlik-Williams situation before signing the contract with Canclaux. He was willing to step in for Pavlik.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Martinez and Dzinziruk IMO have the best chance to beat Williams.
Although i'm not sure about him beating PWill, i'm certain that Jamie Moore would give all three of these guys a run for their money, although he'd probably never get the opportunity as he's not well known enough........ From what i've heard, if he beats Ryan Rhodes in his next fight then he becomes the mandatory for Martinez.
You know when Roy Jones knocked out Montell Griffin in the first round of the rematch I'm sure no one used evidence of their first fight to say how to beat Roy Jones :)
Whatever Quintana did in the first fight that he did effectively Williams adjusted to and overwhelmed him and knocked him out in the first round. If someone is gonna beat Williams it would probably be someone with one punch power because it's gonna be hard to outbox him now since the first time he was he has adjusted. And near impossible to outwork him so you'll either have to be a masterful boxer like a Mayweather or have one punch power since he can be hit.
Carlos Quintana. He beat him once and was having sucess in the 2nd till he got caught. Quintana didn't think Williams could hurt him. He knows that now. Provided he can avoid getting caught, I see no reason he can't beat him again
:vd: :lolhaha: I seen Moore fight. He would struggle with Verno Phillips. I'm not convinced he could beat him eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by themacmagician
Everything Quintana does, Dzinziruk does better. He has a good chanceQuote:
Originally Posted by jokaleras
Difference is Griffin wasn't competitive in the rematch. He did nothing but get blown out. Quintana was winning the round till he got caught. Your comparison doesn't workQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Quintana wasn't very competitive in the rematch. Are you serious? You think quintana was winning the first round with Williams?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise:vd: :lolhaha: I seen Moore fight. He would struggle with Verno Phillips. I'm not convinced he could beat him eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by themacmagician
Everything Quintana does, Dzinziruk does better. He has a good chanceQuote:
Originally Posted by jokaleras
Difference is Griffin wasn't competitive in the rematch. He did nothing but get blown out. Quintana was winning the round till he got caught. Your comparison doesn't workQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
The first round was this. Williams came out with something completely different that he didn't use in the first fight. A jab. he used the jab to keep Quintana at a distance and was throwing single shots with it, Quintana would come in with a hard blow and Williams would answer back then would go back to jabbing Quintana on the outside, Quintana lands one hard straight left and Williams answers back with two blows and Quintana tries to answer but misses. After that point Williams starts putting more on the jab and starts snapping Quintana's head back. Then Williams eventually doubles up on the jab and when Quintana tries to come in and land a shot(like he'd done earlier) Williams catches him with a straight right that puts Quintana on queer street and Quintana holds on for dear life, now Williams starts opening up with combinations and pushes him against the ropes and lands a few more hard shots, Quintana gets out and Williams goes back and double jabs and lands a straight right and down goes Quintana. And the end of the fight isn't too long after that.
There was no way Quintana was winning that first round. Williams' jab was winning that round for him before he started to double up. Once Williams started doubling the jab Quintana never saw the right coming. Whereas in the first fight Williams didn't jab very much if at all, in the rematch Williams brought out a jab, and once Quintana thought he had an answer for it Williams doubled it and had a right hand waiting. Quintana isn't going to ever beat Paul Williams again the same way he did in the first fight. Quintana doesn't seem to have an answer for that double jab of Williams, never saw the right coming after that. If you throw single shots at Quintana he will outbox you all night and thats the mistake Williams made. But he actually threw a second and a third shot and Quintana got caught every time he set it up with a double jab. if Quintana doesn't get an answer for that jab he has no chance at beating Williams again.
Don't believe that atall. I said Moore would give all three a run for their money no doubt in my mind. He certainly certainly gives martinez a damn good go. Martinez is too easy to hit, no way has enough power to keep Moore off of him and also has no ability to fight on the inside, which Moore can do aswell as on the outside.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise:vd: :lolhaha: I seen Moore fight. He would struggle with Verno Phillips. I'm not convinced he could beat him eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by themacmagician
Everything Quintana does, Dzinziruk does better. He has a good chanceQuote:
Originally Posted by jokaleras
Difference is Griffin wasn't competitive in the rematch. He did nothing but get blown out. Quintana was winning the round till he got caught. Your comparison doesn't workQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
I'm also sure that Williams would destroy Martinez, again he's too easy to hit, with his right hand low all the time, punch output and good power says Martinez takes too many shots....
You talking about the same Moore who almost got stopped by the no-punching Michael Jones not to long ago? The one who had to be saved by the ref cuz Ossie Duran was about to kill him? That Moore?Quote:
Originally Posted by themacmagicianDon't believe that atall. I said Moore would give all three a run for their money no doubt in my mind. He certainly certainly gives martinez a damn good go. Martinez is too easy to hit, no way has enough power to keep Moore off of him and also has no ability to fight on the inside, which Moore can do aswell as on the outside.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise:vd: :lolhaha: I seen Moore fight. He would struggle with Verno Phillips. I'm not convinced he could beat him eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by themacmagician
Everything Quintana does, Dzinziruk does better. He has a good chance
Difference is Griffin wasn't competitive in the rematch. He did nothing but get blown out. Quintana was winning the round till he got caught. Your comparison doesn't workQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
I'm also sure that Williams would destroy Martinez, again he's too easy to hit, with his right hand low all the time, punch output and good power says Martinez takes too many shots....
Sergio Martinez is overrated i remember seeing his fight, with Alex Bunema and the way the commentators were making him sound. Was like he was the next SRR. I mean it was a good performance but it was a good performance, against a very limited fighter.
Sergio Martinez is a good fighter theres no doubting that, but im not sold on him by any means. I mean he deserved to obviously beat Kermit Cintron, but i've never really rated Kermit Cintron either. And the only other top opponent he fought, was Antonio Margarito and he was beaten to a pulp.
I'd like to see more of him against some of top fighters. Before im ready to say, he has a good chance to beat Paul Williams. I see people using the Carlos Quintana fight as an example, but i remember seeing that Paul Williams had some weight problems, or ETC against Carlos Quintana in there 1st meeting ?
Whatever it was Paul Williams certainly looked stale, and i thought he pretty much erased the 1st fight. Just like RJJ erased his 1st fight with Montel Griffin as someone else said.
Same same, i get ya, I just think he's matured and he's now a very good fighter and I give him a good shot. Lets just reiterate my first point though," i'm not sure he can beat Paul Williams, he'd give all three of them a good fight. He's had a good few wins especially against Macklin and Piccorillo. Once he's whooped Ryan Rhodes and hopefully into the mandatory spot for Martinez we'll see what he's got then for sure.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseYou talking about the same Moore who almost got stopped by the no-punching Michael Jones not to long ago? The one who had to be saved by the ref cuz Ossie Duran was about to kill him? That Moore?Quote:
Originally Posted by themacmagicianDon't believe that atall. I said Moore would give all three a run for their money no doubt in my mind. He certainly certainly gives martinez a damn good go. Martinez is too easy to hit, no way has enough power to keep Moore off of him and also has no ability to fight on the inside, which Moore can do aswell as on the outside.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I'm also sure that Williams would destroy Martinez, again he's too easy to hit, with his right hand low all the time, punch output and good power says Martinez takes too many shots....
They were talking like that was because at least in America Sergio Martinez was pretty much a complete unknown and he came out and put on a very skillful display and an energetic performance against a guy most thought was at least decent and more of a known quantity. They were just excited about the arrival of Sergio Martinez and he definitely gave the best showing of himself on that tripleheader card. The Martinez who fought Margarito is in no way relevant to Martinez today. I would almost guarantee he would beat Margarito if given the chance now.
I agree with VD that Quintana is fully capable of beating him again however I would pick Williams to win a rematch. Martinez would be brutal for Williams if Martinez was on because Martinez has such excellent footwork and if he can keep Williams from getting set (which shows how much Williams has advanced) he would have every shot at beating Williams because he's the cleaner, sharper puncher. If you talk about volume, there are ways to neutralize volume especially if you are a shorter puncher who can change distances quickly on a guy who throws such long punches. Martinez is more then capable and imo that fight would look like a replay of the Quintana fight if Martinez could take the left away from Williams like Quintana did. I could also see Paul just overwhelming and wearing down Martinez.
Daniel Santos, a sharp southpaw with a lot of pop, he could get to Williams potentially.
i agree with some of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
I dont think anyone will.
Anything can happen in boxing but realistically Pauls the best of the bunch by a Country mile. Vernon Forrest would have given him a good fight. Santos is dangerous and so is Martinez but Paul would start as favourite vs both.
He has too many advantages to lose to those guys. Pavliks in for another bad night next time too.
That has to be the funniest thing I have ever read... "Quintana was beating teh tar out of Williams till he got caught" Yeah, all 90 seconds of it. It was scheduled for 4 rounds right? http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...es/pissing.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by MajestyQuintana wasn't very competitive in the rematch. Are you serious? You think quintana was winning the first round with Williams?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise:vd: :lolhaha: I seen Moore fight. He would struggle with Verno Phillips. I'm not convinced he could beat him eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by themacmagician
Everything Quintana does, Dzinziruk does better. He has a good chance
Difference is Griffin wasn't competitive in the rematch. He did nothing but get blown out. Quintana was winning the round till he got caught. Your comparison doesn't workQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
The first round was this. Williams came out with something completely different that he didn't use in the first fight. A jab. he used the jab to keep Quintana at a distance and was throwing single shots with it, Quintana would come in with a hard blow and Williams would answer back then would go back to jabbing Quintana on the outside, Quintana lands one hard straight left and Williams answers back with two blows and Quintana tries to answer but misses. After that point Williams starts putting more on the jab and starts snapping Quintana's head back. Then Williams eventually doubles up on the jab and when Quintana tries to come in and land a shot(like he'd done earlier) Williams catches him with a straight right that puts Quintana on queer street and Quintana holds on for dear life, now Williams starts opening up with combinations and pushes him against the ropes and lands a few more hard shots, Quintana gets out and Williams goes back and double jabs and lands a straight right and down goes Quintana. And the end of the fight isn't too long after that.
There was no way Quintana was winning that first round. Williams' jab was winning that round for him before he started to double up. Once Williams started doubling the jab Quintana never saw the right coming. Whereas in the first fight Williams didn't jab very much if at all, in the rematch Williams brought out a jab, and once Quintana thought he had an answer for it Williams doubled it and had a right hand waiting. Quintana isn't going to ever beat Paul Williams again the same way he did in the first fight. Quintana doesn't seem to have an answer for that double jab of Williams, never saw the right coming after that. If you throw single shots at Quintana he will outbox you all night and thats the mistake Williams made. But he actually threw a second and a third shot and Quintana got caught every time he set it up with a double jab. if Quintana doesn't get an answer for that jab he has no chance at beating Williams again.
Your representation of the fight is way too verbose.
Williams hits him a few times, gets hit a few times. Williams throws a 4ish punch combo:
2 body punches that lower Quintana's hands
2 to the head to take his block off
Quintana can't figure out what happened.
Quintana will badly lose the rematch, and does not want it.
There is a hidden gem in these two fights that I would like to note.
Pwill comes in the first fight with a mowhawk and all sorts of confidence. Loses. Goofy hair means you have too much time on your hands. Focus.
Quintana comes in the second fight confident as hell. Crazy looking fringe trunks with awful colors. Too flashy. Train harder.
Majesty, Williams jabbed plenty in the first fight. Go back and watch the fight it wasn't his jab or even his offensive weapons that cost him the fight. Quintana just got caught with a clean right hand don't make it more then it actually was. I agree that Williams was improved but it wasn't some dramatic change of tactics he was just on fresher legs, sat down on his punches more and made one count early.
Don't be fooled though Williams might have a good jab but the best jabs control distance and that's something Williams doesn't do. He didn't have many amateur fights and kind of learned on the job as a professional. His biggest problem early even going back to the Sharmba Mitchell fight is the fact that you can time his long straight punches and he has a problem controlling his opponents and the distance between them. Because of his volume he has success on the inside and he can get away with that but guys who go in with a defensive gameplan and are accurate punchers, they are going to have success.
Why doesn't Williams go back to 147? That's where I'm most interested in seeing him right now.
This is a very good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Kelly Pavlik.
If Pavlik could make 154 Williams could knock him over with a feather.
I think people are really going too far comparing Williams-Quintana I and Roy Jones Jr.-Montel Griffin I. If anything Roy had at least turned the tide in that fight with the knockdown, Paul never did anything to really bother Quintana. Quintana only lost rounds when he was trying to take a round off and PW pressured him. Had RJJ not lost his temper he would have eventually stopped Griffin and let's not forget that Montel was a very gifted fighter....there's not much special about Carlos Quintana, I mean he was the first person to beat Joel Julio but Miguel Cotto wrecked him easily. Sergio Martinez is a very solid fighter, very slick, very skilled, and he doesn't usually take rounds off.
Pavlik - Williams is happening in November at 160.
I think Kelly will beat him.
Williams has never fought anyone as strong as Kelly.
Well that's all fine and dandy but the question for this thread is "who at lmw (154 pounds) could beat Paul Williams" and needless to say the fight with Pavlik isn't happening at 154.
And I think Williams will whip him, maybe knock him out
At LMW, no one can beat him.