Tell me that THIS is not the MOST TALENTED fighter that has ever lived

I dare you:p

THIS is not the MOST TALENTED fighter that has ever lived!! ;)

It's a Johnny Nelson vid, right?

Cool vid, not sure we will ever see the likes of him again.

I think in his prime he would have beaten any fighter who ever lived in his weight classes.

Who could possibly hang with that?

It's a shame in a way that he didn't retire after the Ruiz fight because he would easily have gone down in history then as one of the top 5 or 6 ever imo.

Thanks to his ko losses though he's possibly not in most's top 10....

Joy Jones was soo great to watch in his prime!!His reflexes were just soo good,as to his power too!

Nice vid;)

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Originally Posted by yvonne

Joy Jones was soo great to watch in his prime!!His reflexes were just soo good,as to his power too!

Nice vid;)

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is that Roy's alter ego now? did he become a he/she? :-X

No I totally agree with you!

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Originally Posted by Numa

I dare you:p

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YouTube - Roy Jones Jr The Rock Box Tribute

You mean this guy?

I might agree, or else I might not have made this video.

Don't know why I am accused of hatting black fighters when some of the best fighters on my list of greats are black ;)

It actually looks better on youtube because it is 580 x 360 and not small like I am forced to post it here.

Some one suggested a video and they wanted me to add Roy singing RUN D MC so, you will see Roy does sing in the end :cool:

Roy was awesome.

He is one guy that i can't deny, that would of beaten Bernard decisively had they met in their primes.

Great vid. Blinding reflexes big, small, heavy, built, lanky, they all come crashing down!

never get tired of watching class in action.

Although I assumed this was a Pele Reid thread when I opened it I have to say Roy was one of the most talented fighters ever yes - if talking talent alone. I don't think he did enough with it when at his peak to be an all time great.

In my all time greats list he just scraped into the top 20 if I remember (did it a few months ago on another thread)

...I think he would have had some trouble in his weight classes 160-175 from some other all-time greats, but yes RJJ is definently a great fighter and was great to watch.

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Originally Posted by yvonne

Joy Jones was soo great to watch in his prime!!His reflexes were just soo good,as to his power too!

Nice vid;)

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Thanks for the comments guys.

Yeah RJJ is a god that's for sure.

He's a great fighter, my favorite ever, but my other favorite beats him p4p anyday of the week.

Roy is slighly faster than Mayweather p4p, but Floyd is awkward to fight, and after watching Montell Griffin stylistically give Roy fits, Floyd would pick him apart because Roy never established a real jab(except against RUiz and Pazienza, but that jab wouldn't have been useful against Floyd).

He got too sloppy because of his technique, and he stopped using footwork, and allowed guys to hit him on the ropes(despite blocking 95% of thes shots at least partially).

The most physically gifted guy ever in the sport. I think a few guys (Mayweather definatly) have him beat "talent" wise though.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

He's a great fighter, my favorite ever, but my other favorite beats him p4p anyday of the week.

Roy is slighly faster than Mayweather p4p, but Floyd is awkward to fight, and after watching Montell Griffin stylistically give Roy fits, Floyd would pick him apart because Roy never established a real jab(except against RUiz and Pazienza, but that jab wouldn't have been useful against Floyd).

He got too sloppy because of his technique, and he stopped using footwork, and allowed guys to hit him on the ropes(despite blocking 95% of thes shots at least partially).

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Griffin gave Roy fits?! Roy just needed to warm up in the first fight and we all know what happened in the rematch. Physically, Roy is as gifted a fighter that has ever lived. So gifted in fact...that he didn't have to have the greatest technique. Sure, this was detrimental as he lost his natural talent...but at his prime...he simply had too much speed, reflexes and power for ANYONE to handle...Floyd included (even though a fight between the two makes no sense weight class wise). Sometimes...when someone has so much incredible natural ability...no amount of technical prowess can stop it. It's one thing to have great speed (Roy had unbelievable speed), another to have great reflexes (Roy had unbelievable reflexes), and another thing to have great power (Roy had tremendous power). Some fighters are lucky have 2 out of the three. To have all three is very rare. Too bad he came back down in weight to fight Tarver. And now...his best is way past him. But in his prime...i wouldn't bet against him in any fight.

Another thing about Roy...for all of his flashiness in the ring...he wasn't a stupid fighter. He was brutally efficient. And his punches where pin point accurate. You just had to make a millisecond error and boom...he tagged you HARD.

THIS is not the MOST TALENTED fighter that has ever lived


Out of Prime Roy got embarrassed by fighters with less talent.

Muhammad ALI was able to win During his Prime and out of prime againts equally talented fighters. Knowing how to win is a talent too.

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

THIS is not the MOST TALENTED fighter that has ever lived


Out of Prime Roy got embarrassed by fighters with less talent.

Muhammad ALI was able to win During his Prime and out of prime againts equally talented fighters. Knowing how to win is a talent too.

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Didn't Ali lose to Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick? I see no losses on Jones record to fighters as subpar as that :confused:

Prime for prime and p4p I think Roy would have beaten Floyd.

If Zab Judah's speed gave Floyd problems for 4 rounds a prime Jones Jr would have been much much harder to handle.

It would surely be a fight for the ages, but my money would be on Roy Jones to outwork Floyd Mayweather and confuse him to win a decision,

Just cant have him up there with the true 21st century greats (lewis, pacquiao, mayweather) because of the fact he got found out a few too many times in the prime of his career.

On his day he truly is up there as one of the most talented boxers to have ever fought. The schooling he gave toney that night will always live long in my memory.

But getting knocked out by tarve and johnson just diminished the accomplishments of the man. He was in his mid 30s and was hardly looking like a shot fighter when those KO`s came.

Seeing him take the battering calzaghe gave him was a very sad sight for everyone who has had the joy of bringing roy jones jr into their lives!!

It's like you never cease to amaze me, it's a cliche but I mean it quite literally right now.

He WAS NOT in his prime for losses against Tarver and Johnson. And Johnson is a guy who feasts on guys who are out of their prime because of that constant workrate. Please Hammer, go educate yourself on a PRIME Roy then go watch the fight versus Johnson and Tarver III and try to convince everyone here that was the same Jones. Christ man get a clue!

Talented, ehh what's the definition of talent here? He was an awesome fighter and P4P one of the best all time imo. He's not the greatest achievements but he's one of the best fighters of all time imo simply because most could not complete with his athleticism. No arguing it, one of the most talented fighters of all time. By all accounts, Robinson was pretty fucken special in his prime but we just have no video account of it. What we do have is very limited but does allow us to see glimpses of what these guys were really like.

I have no interest in discussing a Jones-Mayweather/anyone else P4P matchup, come on guys don't be ridiculous. It's a foolish argument/topic.

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Originally Posted by amat

It's like you never cease to amaze me, it's a cliche but I mean it quite literally right now.

He WAS NOT in his prime for losses against Tarver and Johnson. And Johnson is a guy who feasts on guys who are out of their prime because of that constant workrate. Please Hammer, go educate yourself on a PRIME Roy then go watch the fight versus Johnson and Tarver III and try to convince everyone here that was the same Jones. Christ man get a clue!

Talented, ehh what's the definition of talent here? He was an awesome fighter and P4P one of the best all time imo. He's not the greatest achievements but he's one of the best fighters of all time imo simply because most could not complete with his athleticism. No arguing it, one of the most talented fighters of all time. By all accounts, Robinson was pretty fucken special in his prime but we just have no video account of it. What we do have is very limited but does allow us to see glimpses of what these guys were really like.

I have no interest in discussing a Jones-Mayweather/anyone else P4P matchup, come on guys don't be ridiculous. It's a foolish argument/topic.

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what was hopkins and calzaghe doing around about the time RJJ was either getting KO`d or just refusing to fight (tarver III)

No he wasnt at his very best when he fought those guys, far from it infact. But why the hell does everyone play the same card everytime a great fighter gets beat that he was "past his prime"

Hopkins didnt lose to taylor because he was "past his prime" calzaghe didnt almost get beat by robin reid because he was "past his prime" and RJJ was not and still amazingly is not a shot fighter just because he got beat up a couple of times.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

THIS is not the MOST TALENTED fighter that has ever lived


Out of Prime Roy got embarrassed by fighters with less talent.

Muhammad ALI was able to win During his Prime and out of prime againts equally talented fighters. Knowing how to win is a talent too.

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Didn't Ali lose to Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick? I see no losses on Jones record to fighters as subpar as that :confused:

Prime for prime and p4p I think Roy would have beaten Floyd.

If Zab Judah's speed gave Floyd problems for 4 rounds a prime Jones Jr would have been much much harder to handle.

It would surely be a fight for the ages, but my money would be on Roy Jones to outwork Floyd Mayweather and confuse him to win a decision,

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Ali was able to reverse the spinks fight. Ali was able to beat the best fighters during his prime and during the time he was out of prime.

Ali was more telented than Roy IMO.

I agree Roy beats PBF. Isnt Floyd the upgraded version of James Toney? Toney was shut out but i think FLoyd wins 4 rounds max. Roy is one of the most talented but not the most talented IMO.

:)

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by amat

It's like you never cease to amaze me, it's a cliche but I mean it quite literally right now.

He WAS NOT in his prime for losses against Tarver and Johnson. And Johnson is a guy who feasts on guys who are out of their prime because of that constant workrate. Please Hammer, go educate yourself on a PRIME Roy then go watch the fight versus Johnson and Tarver III and try to convince everyone here that was the same Jones. Christ man get a clue!

Talented, ehh what's the definition of talent here? He was an awesome fighter and P4P one of the best all time imo. He's not the greatest achievements but he's one of the best fighters of all time imo simply because most could not complete with his athleticism. No arguing it, one of the most talented fighters of all time. By all accounts, Robinson was pretty fucken special in his prime but we just have no video account of it. What we do have is very limited but does allow us to see glimpses of what these guys were really like.

I have no interest in discussing a Jones-Mayweather/anyone else P4P matchup, come on guys don't be ridiculous. It's a foolish argument/topic.

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what was hopkins and calzaghe doing around about the time RJJ was either getting KO`d or just refusing to fight (tarver III)

No he wasnt at his very best when he fought those guys, far from it infact. But why the hell does everyone play the same card everytime a great fighter gets beat that he was "past his prime"

Hopkins didnt lose to taylor because he was "past his prime" calzaghe didnt almost get beat by robin reid because he was "past his prime" and RJJ was not and still amazingly is not a shot fighter just because he got beat up a couple of times.

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Hopkins is different. Hopkins didn't rely as much on his physical advantages like Jones did. Reactions were everything for Jones and once those slipped it made his fall much more dramatic then others. This is best exemplified in the Johnson fight.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

THIS is not the MOST TALENTED fighter that has ever lived


Out of Prime Roy got embarrassed by fighters with less talent.

Muhammad ALI was able to win During his Prime and out of prime againts equally talented fighters. Knowing how to win is a talent too.

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Didn't Ali lose to Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick? I see no losses on Jones record to fighters as subpar as that :confused:

Prime for prime and p4p I think Roy would have beaten Floyd.

If Zab Judah's speed gave Floyd problems for 4 rounds a prime Jones Jr would have been much much harder to handle.

It would surely be a fight for the ages, but my money would be on Roy Jones to outwork Floyd Mayweather and confuse him to win a decision,

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Floyd had no problems with Judah's speed. In fact I think the most bothered he has been lately was by Hatton and it was Hatton's footspeed that was deceptively fast imo. Mayweather lost 3 of the first 4 rounds but there was never a sense of panic, it was just Mayweather took some time to figure things out. He was in complete control no doubt he just chose not to pull the trigger quite as much.

Also, when Miron_Lang brings up Ali, they aren't talking about that out of prime Ali, they are talking about the Ali that beat Frazier and Foreman. Obviously Ali's prime was before his self-imposed exile. Once he returned it was pretty obvious from the While I wouldn't say Ali was the better fighter (not sure, he seems to be strangely underrated sometimes in threads like these), he definitely was able to adapt better to losing some of his physical advantages then Jones was.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

THIS is not the MOST TALENTED fighter that has ever lived!! ;)

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Agreed.. Nobody can deny he's 'up there' but guys like Joe Gans, Willie Pep, Jimmy Wilde, were doing Roy's stuff a long time ago..

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by amat

It's like you never cease to amaze me, it's a cliche but I mean it quite literally right now.

He WAS NOT in his prime for losses against Tarver and Johnson. And Johnson is a guy who feasts on guys who are out of their prime because of that constant workrate. Please Hammer, go educate yourself on a PRIME Roy then go watch the fight versus Johnson and Tarver III and try to convince everyone here that was the same Jones. Christ man get a clue!

Talented, ehh what's the definition of talent here? He was an awesome fighter and P4P one of the best all time imo. He's not the greatest achievements but he's one of the best fighters of all time imo simply because most could not complete with his athleticism. No arguing it, one of the most talented fighters of all time. By all accounts, Robinson was pretty fucken special in his prime but we just have no video account of it. What we do have is very limited but does allow us to see glimpses of what these guys were really like.

I have no interest in discussing a Jones-Mayweather/anyone else P4P matchup, come on guys don't be ridiculous. It's a foolish argument/topic.

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what was hopkins and calzaghe doing around about the time RJJ was either getting KO`d or just refusing to fight (tarver III)

No he wasnt at his very best when he fought those guys, far from it infact. But why the hell does everyone play the same card everytime a great fighter gets beat that he was "past his prime"

Hopkins didnt lose to taylor because he was "past his prime" calzaghe didnt almost get beat by robin reid because he was "past his prime" and RJJ was not and still amazingly is not a shot fighter just because he got beat up a couple of times.

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Hopkins is different. Hopkins didn't rely as much on his physical advantages like Jones did. Reactions were everything for Jones and once those slipped it made his fall much more dramatic then others. This is best exemplified in the Johnson fight.

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He was actually doing well in the fight and was showing flashes of his old self up until he walked on to that monster of a punch.

I agree jones never quite recovered from what tarver did to him. At the same time though he clearly demonstrated against lacy he has what it takes to compete at the very highest level.

Does that mean he is now back in his prime - course it doesnt

Alot of the reason why Roy lost his stride in his early thirties was because he was relying on his physical gifts those are the first to go. His dominance did not have the longevity of other fighters, but when he was king he was a force of nature.

As far as Athletics I agree.

As for Pure Boxing you have SRR, PBF, Alexis and "Finito" whom IMO are more talented then RJJ.

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

Although I assumed this was a Pele Reid thread when I opened it

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Nearly pissed myself... :lolhaha:

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Originally Posted by JonnyFolds

Great vid. Blinding reflexes big, small, heavy, built, lanky, they all come crashing down!

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Were did you get that photo of Floyd Mayweather sr ?

Pernell Whitaker
Donald Curry
Sugar Ray Leonard
Ricardo Lopez
James Toney
Terry Norris

All deserve a mention aswell.

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

Just cant have him up there with the true 21st century greats (lewis, pacquiao, mayweather) because of the fact he got found out a few too many times in the prime of his career.

On his day he truly is up there as one of the most talented boxers to have ever fought. The schooling he gave toney that night will always live long in my memory.

But getting knocked out by tarve and johnson just diminished the accomplishments of the man. He was in his mid 30s and was hardly looking like a shot fighter when those KO`s came.

Seeing him take the battering calzaghe gave him was a very sad sight for everyone who has had the joy of bringing roy jones jr into their lives!!

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Whoa there... Jones was weight depleted and 33 years old when he finally lost. To say he was in his prime is crazy considering 33 is old for a guy who spent his career relying on his speed and reflexes.

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Originally Posted by Numa

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

Just cant have him up there with the true 21st century greats (lewis, pacquiao, mayweather) because of the fact he got found out a few too many times in the prime of his career.

On his day he truly is up there as one of the most talented boxers to have ever fought. The schooling he gave toney that night will always live long in my memory.

But getting knocked out by tarve and johnson just diminished the accomplishments of the man. He was in his mid 30s and was hardly looking like a shot fighter when those KO`s came.

Seeing him take the battering calzaghe gave him was a very sad sight for everyone who has had the joy of bringing roy jones jr into their lives!!

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Whoa there... Jones was weight depleted and 33 years old when he finally lost. To say he was in his prime is crazy considering 33 is old for a guy who spent his career relying on his speed and reflexes.

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Roy was 35 when he lost actually. 15 years into his career. At that point I don't think his heart was in boxing anymore. After the Ruiz fight, he said he wanted to fight one more megafight against Mike Tyson at HW then retire.

Roy fucked himself over when he chose to gain all that bulk and then struggle to burn 20lbs of muscle off to fight Tarver, especially at his age. Look what happened to Chris Byrd when he burned off a simliar amount of weight at a simliar age to go down to 175. He was slow, weak, and his once great chin was gone and he got knocked down repeatedly and finally KO'd by a no-name LHW with like 8 KOs in 18 fights. He was never the same after that, physically or mentally.

Its hard for regular people to understand because if you or I lose 20lbs, thats awesome. We feel great because we could afford to lose 20lbs. But when you're 200lbs of chisled, ripped muscle, losing 20lbs is going to hurt you physically, especially at an older age.

Look at PBF today compared to what he looked like when he was fight at 130. He's packed on a LOT of bulk. Imagine what would happen if he tried to shave himself back down to 130. He wouldn't look like the guy who dominated Marquez a few weeks ago I gaurentee you.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Numa

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

Just cant have him up there with the true 21st century greats (lewis, pacquiao, mayweather) because of the fact he got found out a few too many times in the prime of his career.

On his day he truly is up there as one of the most talented boxers to have ever fought. The schooling he gave toney that night will always live long in my memory.

But getting knocked out by tarve and johnson just diminished the accomplishments of the man. He was in his mid 30s and was hardly looking like a shot fighter when those KO`s came.

Seeing him take the battering calzaghe gave him was a very sad sight for everyone who has had the joy of bringing roy jones jr into their lives!!

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Whoa there... Jones was weight depleted and 33 years old when he finally lost. To say he was in his prime is crazy considering 33 is old for a guy who spent his career relying on his speed and reflexes.

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Roy was 35 when he lost actually. 15 years into his career. At that point I don't think his heart was in boxing anymore. After the Ruiz fight, he said he wanted to fight one more megafight against Mike Tyson at HW then retire.

Roy fucked himself over when he chose to gain all that bulk and then struggle to burn 20lbs of muscle off to fight Tarver, especially at his age. Look what happened to Chris Byrd when he burned off a simliar amount of weight at a simliar age to go down to 175. He was slow, weak, and his once great chin was gone and he got knocked down repeatedly and finally KO'd by a no-name LHW with like 8 KOs in 18 fights. He was never the same after that, physically or mentally.

Its hard for regular people to understand because if you or I lose 20lbs, thats awesome. We feel great because we could afford to lose 20lbs. But when you're 200lbs of chisled, ripped muscle, losing 20lbs is going to hurt you physically, especially at an older age.

Look at PBF today compared to what he looked like when he was fight at 130. He's packed on a LOT of bulk. Imagine what would happen if he tried to shave himself back down to 130. He wouldn't look like the guy who dominated Marquez a few weeks ago I gaurentee you.

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I agree. Some people really overlook the damage Roy did to himself coming back down in weight to fight Tarver. It certainly cannot be used as an excuse for all of his recent performances...but it had a negative effect at the least ideal time of his career (he wasn't a young buck who could just shrug off losing that much muscle and recover quickly). I also think it's a huge injustice to his enormous talent to say Roy Jones was just a great athlete. He certainly was that...but he was a smart fighter. Sure, he wasn't as technically brilliant like Whitaker or Mayweather...but he had great skills. He was never this raw, wild fighter. He was deadly accurate with his powerful and fast punches. And he wasn't a guy who just walked in a ring looking to knock his opponents head off with one punch. He was patient. He could toy with a fighter...blast them when he wanted too...or simply dance and take his time. Look at his fight with Toney. James was a more "skilled" fighter than Roy. He had a better defense than Roy, etc. etc.....yet Roy toyed with him (and please don't use the "Toney was weight drained" excuse). All i am saying is that Roy has not ended his career the way he should have...and maybe some of that is his fault. But at his prime...i still do not see any fighter that could have handled him.

Yeah I agree. Roy's detractors will always say he never fought anyone, and will always have an excuse for the greats he did beat (Toney was weight drained, Hopkins wasn't in his prime yet, ect). People who say that are either biased against him or just don't know their history. Guys like Sugarboy Malinga, Tate, Sosa, Griffen, Virgil Hill, ect were solid fighters. Reggie Johnson was a fantastic fighter, very underrated, who gave a lot of guys a lot of problems and Roy dominated him.

If you look back at his career, you'll see a ton of guys who gave other greats a lot of problems, or perhaps beat other greats, who were murdered or embarrassed by Roy Jones. Once in a lifetime fighter.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Yeah I agree. Roy's detractors will always say he never fought anyone, and will always have an excuse for the greats he did beat (Toney was weight drained, Hopkins wasn't in his prime yet, ect). People who say that are either biased against him or just don't know their history. Guys like Sugarboy Malinga, Tate, Sosa, Griffen, Virgil Hill, ect were solid fighters. Reggie Johnson was a fantastic fighter, very underrated, who gave a lot of guys a lot of problems and Roy dominated him.

If you look back at his career, you'll see a ton of guys who gave other greats a lot of problems, or perhaps beat other greats, who were murdered or embarrassed by Roy Jones. Once in a lifetime fighter.

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yea he wasn't like Calzaghe who finally jumped at the chance to fight the big names once they were past their best (aside Lacey and maybe Hopkins, who i felt beat Joe), but IMO he's not the most talented fighter that ever lived, there are plenty of others that can make the same claim, and there are different types of talent, i'd say Jones WAS the most athletically talented fighter ever, but terms of skill, power, strategy, or even speed, i wouldn't pick him

in short my top two are Robinson and Armstrong

I wonder how that fight vs Tyson would have turned out? RJJ vs Toney at heavyweight would have been nice and RJJ vs Holyfield at heavyweight would have also been nice.

Roy was a phenom who blinded with pure reflex,athleticism and instinct.Could have done well in other sports.But he was not the most talented and technically proficient fighter.He beat many who were better text book boxers than he with those qualities Toney,Hopkins,Johnson and granddaddy McCallum.I think Mayweather stands above as far as a skilled boxer.But Roy did not hesitate to close the distance and go for finish when he had a guy tenderized,the majority of the time.