The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Hatton's declining punch resistance is something that i keep seeing on here. People talking about it as factor in him losing to Pacquiao or a factor in him probably losing to Marquez.
However i have an observation.
I believe his punch resistance is as good as it ever has been.
Early on his career, despite what people may say, Hatton never had a brilliant chin. He was hurt several times even against journeymen and gatekeepers.
Gilbert Quiros, a Costa Rican fighter stunned Hatton quite badly in the first round of their fight all the way back in 2000. In his autobiography Hatton says he'd never been hit that hard before....
Until he faced Vince Phillips. According to Hatton, Phillips could have probably had Hatton out of there. His legs had turned to jelly, only Phillips didn't realise nor did he have to capability to finish him off at that stage of his career.
He was also badly hurt by Eamonn Magee. He was put down in the first round and then badly shaken in the 2nd. Again Magee couldn't quite finish him off. Later on in his career Ben Tackie also managed to hurt him.
Luckily for Hatton none of the above fighters had the ability to finish him off.
The myth of his chin goes all the way back to the Kostya Tyszu fight when Hatton managed to absorb whatever Tszyu threw at him. Hatton, quite cleverly never let Tszyu set himself so he never really experienced many full bodied blows. Tszyu didn't really throw many combinations in that fight. More straight shots than anything. That was lucky for Hatton.
Everytime Hatton has faced somebody who has fast hands and throws combinations, he struggles...badly. Why do you think he only started facing these sort of fighters after he'd left Frank Warren.
You can say what you like about the bug eyed promoter, but he's not an idiot. Once he left Warren, he went on to face Collazo. A southpaw with very fast hands, who threw combinations. The result - Hatton nearly ko'd. This led people to believe Hatton's punch resistance was only good at 140 and that he couldn't take a shot from 147ers. That's true, but i believe if Collazo was a 140 fighter, he'd have still almost had Hatton out of there.
When dealing with combinations, Hatton simply has no answer. He just tends to stand in mid-range with his hands down.
The same thing happened against Mayweather when he started to open up and the same thing happened against Pacquiao. None of the above 3 are consussive punchers, but then again neither was Eamonn Magee or Ben Tackie. Only Collazo and certainly Mayweather and Pacquiao are world class fighters.
Another thing that contributed to Mayweather and Pacquiao ko'ing him was the fact that in both fights Hatton pretty much walked on to the shots. Hell, he walked onto a couple against Lazcano.
To summarise, i don't believe his chin is any worse than it ever has been. It's just that Warren managed to keep him away from the fighters who could expose it as average. In other words he kept him away from fast, accurate combination punchers.
Marquez is accurate as hell. Providing he's not totally out of his depth at the weight, he's going to be one of several fighters to hurt him and probably the 3rd to knock him out.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
I agree somewhat.. I don't think his chin has declined whatsoever, more so his defensive abilities and awareness it seems. I was just plain shocked at how he fought against pac man.. he charged into pac man with his arms pretty much at his waist..
I still think he has what it takes to compete with the best, just not the very best.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
fact in my opinon. The only time ive ever seen hatton really hurt before mayweather is against magee, you could say mayweather has a dodgy chin after corly rocked him... but he doesnt, he has a good chin.
Hatton took kostyas punches, straight or not they were still the hardest p4p punches at the time, sharmba mitchell - who doesnt have a particulary good chin was taken out in 3 by them. Dont get me wrong though i twas the fight of his life, prehaps no one could of put him down that night.
Hatton is always vunerable to counters, as all people who fight his style are generally. After Kostya his chin probably had gone a little, and after mayweather as we saw lazcano and pac were able to hurt him with almost every clean shot. To me hattons chin was not exposed in the 2nd round, he didnt see the punch, if anyone had walked onto it like him they would of been out. But in the first, short left hook and then the recovery afterwards. Yes he didnt see the left but it shouldnt have put him on the floor
thats my 2 cents anyway
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Magee had a serious dig. I don't remember seeing a fight where he didn't rock his opponent.
Most fighters punch resistance wanes with age just down to sheer punishment, no? It would be surprising if that didn't happen to guy hit as much as Hatton.
Looking at old videos of him he looks much faster than he does now. There's definitely a change.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Magee had a serious dig. I don't remember seeing a fight where he didn't rock his opponent.
Most fighters punch resistance wanes with age just down to sheer punishment, no? It would be surprising if that didn't happen to guy hit as much as Hatton.
Looking at old videos of him he looks much faster than he does now. There's definitely a change.
Could that not be down to the fact that he's no longer facing gatekeepers and journeyman?
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oakleyno1
fact in my opinon. The only time ive ever seen hatton really hurt before mayweather is against magee, you could say mayweather has a dodgy chin after corly rocked him... but he doesnt, he has a good chin.
Hatton took kostyas punches, straight or not they were still the hardest p4p punches at the time, sharmba mitchell - who doesnt have a particulary good chin was taken out in 3 by them. Dont get me wrong though i twas the fight of his life, prehaps no one could of put him down that night.
Hatton is always vunerable to counters, as all people who fight his style are generally. After Kostya his chin probably had gone a little, and after mayweather as we saw lazcano and pac were able to hurt him with almost every clean shot. To me hattons chin was not exposed in the 2nd round, he didnt see the punch, if anyone had walked onto it like him they would of been out. But in the first, short left hook and then the recovery afterwards. Yes he didnt see the left but it shouldnt have put him on the floor
thats my 2 cents anyway
Well actually we don't really know how good Floyd Mayweather Jr's chin is, im a fan of Floyd Mayweather Jr but i've only seen him take the odd good shot here and there, which does show how great he is.
But DeMarcus Corley did have underrated power, he did wobble Miguel Cotto, Zab Judah, despite what people say DeMarcus Corley was a pretty good contender in his day.
As for the topic i agree with Ono somewhat, he has been wobbled quite a few times in his career. And Kostya Tszyu isn't an effective puncher without punching room, but i still don't think a prime Ricky Hatton would of been blown away in 2 rounds by Manny Pacquiao.
Going up and down in weight like he does, and the life style he has. Plus his gun-ho style wouldn't help his punch resistance, although its never been great i think it is certainly worse than it was.
And as Fenster said Ricky Hatton used to be alot faster, especially at slipping shots. Just look at the Ray Olveira fight for example.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Magee had a serious dig. I don't remember seeing a fight where he didn't rock his opponent.
Most fighters punch resistance wanes with age just down to sheer punishment, no? It would be surprising if that didn't happen to guy hit as much as Hatton.
Looking at old videos of him he looks much faster than he does now. There's definitely a change.
Could that not be down to the fact that he's no longer facing gatekeepers and journeyman?
His speed? How would his opponent affect his speed? I think it's quite obvious he was much faster when younger.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
I dunno about his chin but I think he still looked pretty sharp against Mayweather.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Magee had a serious dig. I don't remember seeing a fight where he didn't rock his opponent.
Most fighters punch resistance wanes with age just down to sheer punishment, no? It would be surprising if that didn't happen to guy hit as much as Hatton.
Looking at old videos of him he looks much faster than he does now. There's definitely a change.
Could that not be down to the fact that he's no longer facing gatekeepers and journeyman?
His speed? How would his opponent affect his speed? I think it's quite obvious he was much faster when younger.
Because he is bound to look much faster against a journeyman than he is against Pacquaio, as Hatton will be faster than the journeyman but slower than Pacquiao. It's easy to look fast against a 40 year old gatekeeper.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oakleyno1
fact in my opinon. The only time ive ever seen hatton really hurt before mayweather is against magee, you could say mayweather has a dodgy chin after corly rocked him... but he doesnt, he has a good chin.
Hatton took kostyas punches, straight or not they were still the hardest p4p punches at the time, sharmba mitchell - who doesnt have a particulary good chin was taken out in 3 by them. Dont get me wrong though i twas the fight of his life, prehaps no one could of put him down that night.
Hatton is always vunerable to counters, as all people who fight his style are generally. After Kostya his chin probably had gone a little, and after mayweather as we saw lazcano and pac were able to hurt him with almost every clean shot. To me hattons chin was not exposed in the 2nd round, he didnt see the punch, if anyone had walked onto it like him they would of been out. But in the first, short left hook and then the recovery afterwards. Yes he didnt see the left but it shouldnt have put him on the floor
thats my 2 cents anyway
Well actually we don't really know how good Floyd Mayweather Jr's chin is, im a fan of Floyd Mayweather Jr but i've only seen him take the odd good shot here and there, which does show how great he is.
But DeMarcus Corley did have underrated power, he did wobble Miguel Cotto, Zab Judah, despite what people say DeMarcus Corley was a pretty good contender in his day.
As for the topic i agree with Ono somewhat, he has been wobbled quite a few times in his career. And Kostya Tszyu isn't an effective puncher without punching room, but i still don't think a prime Ricky Hatton would of been blown away in 2 rounds by Manny Pacquiao.
Going up and down in weight like he does, and the life style he has. Plus his gun-ho style wouldn't help his punch resistance, although its never been great i think it is certainly worse than it was.
And as Fenster said Ricky Hatton used to be alot faster, especially at slipping shots. Just look at the Ray Olveira fight for example.
But do you not think it's easy to look faster against Oliveira given that he is much slower than the likes of Pacquiao and Mayweather?
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Could that not be down to the fact that he's no longer facing gatekeepers and journeyman?
His speed? How would his opponent affect his speed? I think it's quite obvious he was much faster when younger.
Because he is bound to look much faster against a journeyman than he is against Pacquaio, as Hatton will be faster than the journeyman but slower than Pacquiao. It's easy to look fast against a 40 year old gatekeeper.
Yes that's true. But just watch some old fights, he clearly looks faster/sharper punching.
It's the norm for people to slow and weaken with age, so it is only natural that Hatton's punch resistance is not as solid, even if it was overrated in the past.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grinch
I dunno about his chin but I think he still looked pretty sharp against Mayweather.
Agreed :cool:
Most have valid points but in general I gotta go with Fenster's analysis on this one, pretty much sums it up for me.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
His speed? How would his opponent affect his speed? I think it's quite obvious he was much faster when younger.
Because he is bound to look much faster against a journeyman than he is against Pacquaio, as Hatton will be faster than the journeyman but slower than Pacquiao. It's easy to look fast against a 40 year old gatekeeper.
Yes that's true. But just watch some old fights, he clearly looks faster/sharper punching.
It's the norm for people to slow and weaken with age, so it is only natural that Hatton's punch resistance is not as solid, even if it was overrated in the past.
Good points
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
I always remember Billy Graham pleading with him in the latter rounds of the Urango fight to hold on for dear life... which i always found strange because apart from the body shot Ricky owned all the rounds hands down.
made me wonder if Graham knew something we didn't.
i have a feeling if Rickly cant hang on and wrestle to wear his opponent down he's in trouble at the high level unless they can't punch.
and as said above the older he gets the slower he becomes and just can't pin these little fast guys down... i'm starting to think that even Khan would be able to beat him now but i wouldn't give you a good argument on it. :-X
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saddo
I always remember Billy Graham pleading with him in the latter rounds of the Urango fight to hold on for dear life... which i always found strange because apart from the body shot Ricky owned all the rounds hands down.
made me wonder if Graham knew something we didn't.
i have a feeling if Rickly cant hang on and wrestle to wear his opponent down he's in trouble at the high level unless they can't punch.
and as said above the older he gets the slower he becomes and just can't pin these little fast guys down... i'm starting to think that even Khan would be able to beat him now but i wouldn't give you a good argument on it. :-X
I think Khan would beat him easily. Too fast. Hatton has never been able to deal with somebody who throws fast combinations imo.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saddo
I always remember Billy Graham pleading with him in the latter rounds of the Urango fight to hold on for dear life... which i always found strange because apart from the body shot Ricky owned all the rounds hands down.
made me wonder if Graham knew something we didn't.
i have a feeling if Rickly cant hang on and wrestle to wear his opponent down he's in trouble at the high level unless they can't punch.
and as said above the older he gets the slower he becomes and just can't pin these little fast guys down... i'm starting to think that even Khan would be able to beat him now but i wouldn't give you a good argument on it. :-X
I think Khan would beat him easily. Too fast. Hatton has never been able to deal with somebody who throws fast combinations imo.
i would agree if Khan had a chin... but he sadly dosn't ;)
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Agrre with both ono and Fenster. All fighters punch resistance decline with age, then again I see what ono is saying that his recent fights shouldn't be seen as definitive proof of this regarding Hatton. As someone mentioned Kostya's power was at the end of his reach and HAtton smothered him, though he did take a lot of really solid shots that night and got through them.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
I think the beating against Mayweather took a bit out of him he looked shot vs Lazcano but also i think the ballooning up and down in weight between fights caught up with him by the time he fought Pac i think he looked dry and weight drained.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tysonbruno
I think the beating against Mayweather took a bit out of him he looked shot vs Lazcano but also i think the ballooning up and down in weight between fights caught up with him by the time he fought Pac i think he looked dry and weight drained.
Totally agree mate.
But at the end off the day he only has himself to blame when he fought Manny any1 who goes into a fight against Pac with there hands down is stupid and is going to get Ko'ed.
Plus after the ko he suffered from Mayweather his confidence was never the same again and the change of trainer didnt help him either!
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
After taking so many punches over the years and two big KOs there's no doubt he's more chinny than he used to be. The weight fluctuation as well, you can only go up and down like that so many times before there's nothing left. His legs and his reflexes have got progressively worse too. After struggling to make weight and a brutal KO last time he's turned 30 and spent a year on the piss, you've got to wonder what kind of condition he'll be in after breaking his balls to get to 140 yet again.
Re: The decline of Hatton's chin - Myth or Fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tysonbruno
I think the beating against Mayweather took a bit out of him he looked shot vs Lazcano but also i think the ballooning up and down in weight between fights caught up with him by the time he fought Pac i think he looked dry and weight drained.
The Collazo fight had him taking more punishment IMO. I think the Castillo fight would have been hard in the later stages if he never landed that cracking bodyshot.
